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Quoted from PantherCityPins:If you have to start a post by saying “No politics”, you’re probably about to make a political post...
It's kind of like when you start a sentence with, "No offense, but ...". Clearly, you are about to say something offensive. 
Quoted from Zablon:That seems like someone with incompetent people around him if he just now figured that out - or he's lying.
I would think you would have to be living under a rock not to have known that asymptomatic carriers can spread the virus. This fact has been all over the news since before it even hit our country.
Quoted from Mr68:I am all for someone starting a basement thread, D vs R, and all political sides can argue to their heart's content there. I also think it would be an effective tool for the moderators to use by referring people there when things get squirrely. Which they often do and all over Pinside. You guys could really cut loose there rather than playing cute with the moderators.
It would be my great pleasure to put that thread on ignore.
It's not going to happen. If you want to discuss politics, that's what reddit is for.
Quoted from ForceFlow:Not going to happen. It's been proven time and again that political discussions just turn combative and cause problems. Pinside is for pinball, not politics. If you want to engage in political discussions, there are plenty of other places available for that.
Quoted from gweempose:It's not going to happen. If you want to discuss politics, that's what reddit is for.
Jinx! Buy me a coke!
Quoted from CrazyLevi:The owner of my favorite Chinese place said she would prefer to be open for carry out but her workers can’t get there (they don’t want to ride long train / bus trips) so its just not feasible.
All of my local mom and pop Chinese places have closed, even the ones that only did take out in the first place. We normally order Chinese at least once a week, so we're pretty bummed about it. Let's just say Panda Express doesn't satisfy the craving.
Quoted from chad:Now this is just low. People out trying their best to keep things going and others have the nerve to do a switch a roo .....Unbelievable!
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/09/tech/instacart-shoppers-tip-baiting/index.html
The people who pull that shit are f***ing scumbags! I just had an Instacart order delivered yesterday. I gave the guy a 20% tip on a $300 order. You have to at least make it worth their while. These people are out there risking their health and potentially the safety of their families. In my eyes, they are heroes.
Quoted from cait001:I guess it's probably best for everyone to take note that we should should not post tweets from the POTUS here, as that resulted in a thread eject
Quoted from Wickerman2:What? He sets policy for Federal covid response, why would quoting him be an eject? Maybe that can be clarified in the rules.
The post wasn't moderated because it contained a link to a tweet from Trump. It was moderated because the tweet had nothing whatsoever to do with the government's response to the pandemic.
Quoted from Mr68:I've been trying use forgotten food from the back of the cabinets and organize a little. Can anybody do better than June 16, 2006 for an expired product?
I've got that beat by a mile. I found this the other day at my parent's house ...
Hershey's (resized).jpg
Quoted from chad:I noticed I'm doing more dishes.
Same here. We usually eat about 2/3 of our meals out. Now that we are eating in almost every meal, the dishes stack up fast!
Quoted from Colsond3:Holy crap. I remember that can. Had to pop the lid with a teaspoon.
When do you think it's from? Late 70's? Early 80's?
Quoted from screaminr:How hard is this thread going to be modded , are we allowed to talk about general things , post comments about beer or food or is it strictly evidence-based facts about the coronavirus .
If it's just factual posts , Australia is up to 78 deaths .
As long as the post isn't overtly political, a link to obvious misinformation, or a clear violation of the rules, we will let it through. We will do the best we can to keep this thread flowing in an organic manner. It obviously isn't an ideal scenario, but the alternative was closing the thread altogether.
Quoted from Jaybird815:Well since we last met, Covid has hit close to home, a good friends father passed away from the virus, whom I also knew well for many years. I’m ready for this to be over.
It's horrible. My best friend's mom just got off a ventilator after being on it for 16 days. It's going to be a long recovery for her, and she will probably never be back to 100%.
Quoted from PinMonk:At least doctors are leaving their ventilator fetish behind as they see better survival rates overall without them.
Can you elaborate on this? If a person can't breathe well enough to properly oxygenate their blood, what options are there other than a ventilator?
Quoted from DakotaMike:Well, oxygen masks of course, and I believe that there are other forms of less-invasive ventilators. Read about it in a recent article talking about the reduced ventilator usage. They're still being used, and they're still necessary in some cases, but they're being used less often now that we have better data on patient outcomes.
Oh, I see. So you're saying that doctors have been quick to put COVID patients on ventilators, but it probably makes more sense to only use them as a last resort.
I just found this article which addresses exactly what we are discussing ...
https://time.com/5818547/ventilators-coronavirus/
It seems like there is something unique about COVID-19 that causes patients on ventilators to fair worse than patients that are intubated because of other respiratory illnesses.
Quoted from Atari_Daze:Some will say this was $11 MILLION wasted... but concerning human life, is there such a thing?
https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/04/27/ask-2-how-many-patients-have-used-the-11-million-pop-up-hospital-built-at-nrgs-parking-lot/
In Chicago, they turned our convention center into a 3,000 bed care center for COVID-19 patients. To my knowledge, none have been used yet. Some may see that as a huge waste of resources, but I see it as the overwhelming success of the stay at home order. That's the thing about social distancing. People look at the number of infected people after the fact and jump to the false conclusion that the lock down was an overreaction. The reality is that the numbers would have been exponentially worse if the extreme social distancing measures weren't implemented.
Quoted from screaminr:In Victoria most things are open , you can buy clothes , get a haircut , pretty much everything is open , accept pubs , clubs , nail salons , everything where people sit together for a while. Also you can't play golf or go fishing .
That's interesting that you can do all that other stuff, but you can't golf. Here, golf is one of the few non-essential businesses that is just starting to open back up. It's pretty easy to social distance on a golf course.
Quoted from Jaybird815:I’m in the golf industry and we are getting ready to be crazy busy, I’m going on a road trip now to southern Illinois, not exactly excited to be staying in hotels, but I could be out of a job.
I assume they will be allowing one rider per cart, even with a foursome?
Quoted from embryonjohn:There’s one state in America that has a larger elderly population than New York, that is more ethnically diverse than New York, and that has two million more people than New York. Yet its death rate from COVID-19 is 5 percent that of New York. That state is Florida.
I'm not sure what your point is, but it's all just math. NYC got slammed much harder than other areas because it got hit with the virus very early, and because it is such a densely populated area.
Quoted from embryonjohn:If it’s all just math, logistics and density then why is everyone debating different approaches to managing & containing the virus.
If it’s baked in from the start as you suggest, close the thread...
I'm afraid I still don't understand the argument you are trying to make. I was simply responding to your comment about the death rate in Florida being lower than New York despite the larger and older population. My point was that there are obvious reasons why this is the case, such as population density and the time frame of the initial spread. Are you saying that my logic is not sound? If so, please explain where you think I went wrong.
Quoted from Mr68:One of the reasons I quit playing golf was because my friend considered anything within 5 feet as a gimmie and pick up. Sorry, I mean my ex-friend.
I can relate. I have a friend whose ball always seems to magically move from the rough to the edge of the fairway.
It's hard to even fathom the stress that the people on the front lines are under. Very tragic indeed.
Quoted from robertmee:... there are those I've talked to that believe we must keep the stay at home orders in place until a vaccine is developed.
Well that's just ridiculous! We have already destroyed the economy way beyond what most people even realize. We obviously have to get as many things reopened as soon as we safely can. But it's a balancing act. On the other side of the coin, there are those who want to just open the floodgates and let everyone get back to business as usual. I fear the results of this would be catastrophic. There has to be a happy medium.
Edit: Looks like PantherCityPins pretty much said the exact same thing while I was formulating my post.
Quoted from frisbez:I feel like it's a strangely American thing to be arguing over when and how to re-open. Perhaps our "every man for himself" mentality isn't as effective as we have been led to believe.
For starters, Americans don't like being told what to do. On top of that, we have a highly polarized political climate in our country that has created an "us" vs. "them" mentality. It was bad enough before the pandemic, but with people getting much of their COVID-19 related information from highly biased sources, it has created the perfect storm. This is precisely why we have seemingly intelligent people on both sides doing and saying things that completely defy logic.
In my eyes, any rational person should want to avoid getting infected for as long as possible. It's entirely possible that a huge percentage of the population will ultimately get infected no matter what we do, but the more time you can buy yourself, the better. Even without a vaccine, treatment will continue to improve. Doctors certainly know a lot more about the virus now than they did two months ago, and they will know even more two months from now. This is why it really saddens me to see people out there needlessly putting themselves and others at risk. I have no problem with people protesting because they want to get back to work. This is America, and that is their right. But don't be an idiot about it. Wear a mask. Stay six feet apart.
Don't block the ambulances from getting to the hospital!
Quoted from herg:The homemade mask likely does nothing (or very little) to keep the person wearing it safe. What it does is limit a carrier from spreading the virus to others.
Precisely. The theory is that if everyone wears a mask when in public, the people who are contagious won't as easily spread it to others. I think this logic is sound.
Quoted from parsonsaj:This is a very good article about the crazy situation we currently have in Georgia:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/why-georgia-reopening-coronavirus-pandemic/610882/
These two articles are a perfect example of how the same topic is covered so differently from a media outlet that leans left than a media outlet that leans right. It's no wonder people in this country are so confused.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Just seems like a big FU to the people who work in these plants, and a giant favor to the meat companies. If the question is, can America survive with slightly less meat than before, at the benefit of protecting workers, I’d say “yes.”
I'm a meat eater, and I still don't understand why meat production is so fundamentally important that we can't make do without it until the job can be done safely again. Will people starve if they don't have meat for a month? Don't we have plenty of fruits, vegetables, grains, fish, eggs, etc ...?
Quoted from cottonm4:It is not just the packers. It is the farmers and ranchers, as well. If they have no market to take their hogs/cattle to they are going to have to start culling their herds. So now you not only have the problem of not be able to sell your livestock for a profit, you have to kill them off and find find something to do with all of the dead bodies. And the next thing that happens is the farmer has to start to build his he'd from scratch again. That takes time.
And then when the packers are ready to open back up, there may not be any livestock coming in for slaughter.
Thanks. This definitely helps to put it into perspective. So basically the entire meat industry is a well-oiled machine that is constantly pumping out product. You throw a wrench into any part of that machine, and it has huge ramifications. I was just thinking it would mean we wouldn't have as much meat to eat. I wasn't thinking about the huge economic impact it could have on so many different facets of the meat industry as a whole.
So have any of you guys been able to get hand sanitizer where you live? I'm well stocked on pretty much everything else, but I haven't been able to find hand sanitizer at all since this whole thing started.
Quoted from mcluvin:Circle-K has small bottles in stock regularly now.
No Circle-K around here, I'm afraid. 
Quoted from mcluvin:Sam's Club briefly had big packs of Charmin Ultrasoft available to ship today. I add one to my cart, go to checkout and boom! OOS...
That sucks. The same thing happened to me with a webcam the other day at Best Buy. To be honest, I'm kind of amazed that it's still so hard to get toilet paper. Doesn't every home in America have like a two year supply at this point?
Here's a very interesting article about how Seattle handled the situation so much better than New York. They both got hit with their first cases around the same time, but Seattle almost immediately allowed their scientists and doctors to take the lead ...
Quoted from o-din:Washington state as a whole seemed to shut it down as fast as it got there. Sad they didn't do it sooner.
Again, they are now saying it hit Ca. first, at least the first people in the USA that died from it, and with the commerce and tourism from China greater here than anywhere else in the country, of that I have no doubt. So there must be other factors involved keeping the infection spread here so low. Glad to be here, but feeling for those elsewhere.
There are definitely a lot of factors at play. Illinois was pretty aggressive and actually issued their initial stay at home order two days before Washington State, yet we currently have nearly three times as many deaths. I think the article does a good job of explaining how Seattle got the people to actually listen to them really quickly. It was a great moving getting Microsoft on board right at the start. When you see a huge company like that suddenly having everyone work from home, it sends a strong message.
I'm just hoping that a lot more people than we realize have had mild cases, and they now have immunity. We won't really know until a few weeks from now after some of the states start to re-open. If we begin to see big spikes in new infections, then this obviously isn't the case.
Quoted from dirkdiggler:I guess I'm that idiot. I have 3 stores to go to when I shop. I mask up when I get to the first store. I don't take it off just to drive around the block to the Walmart. I take the mask off when I'm done shopping and then wash and sanitize it when I get home
And that makes perfect sense. It's safer just to keep it until you are done with all your errands.
Does anyone have a good reusable cloth mask that they can recommend? I have some N95 masks and a handful of cheap surgical masks, but I'm looking for something I can wash and re-use, and that's comfortable to wear for extended periods of time.
Did you guys see this asshole whole wiped his nose on a worker's shirt when she reminded him about the store's mask policy?
And then you have these psychopaths!!!
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/04/us/michigan-security-guard-mask-killing-trnd/index.html
WTF has happened to our country?
I'm curious to know how many of you are wearing gloves when you do your errands. I've been wearing gloves every time I go someplace where I'll be touching stuff (i.e. grocery store, post office, gas pump, etc...). I also wear gloves when I am sorting through the mail or unboxing packages. I realize that the virus can't be spread through skin absorption, but I find that the gloves help remind me not touch my face. I also feel like once I take the gloves off, there is less potential virus on my hands. Obviously, I still thoroughly sanitize/wash them after.
I don't want this to devolve into a gun debate. My point was simply that I can't comprehend that someone would be so angry about being asked to wear a mask that they would take someone's life over it.
Quoted from BobSacamano:It seems like a common theme.
"You're not going to FORCE ME to wear a mask in your establishment, THIS IS 'MURICA!".
Yep. This is one of the reasons why the US has been hit so much harder by this thing than they have in other countries. The ideas of liberty and freedom are ingrained into the very fabric of our society. This causes many people to instantly go into battle mode as soon as they perceive that someone is forcing them to act in a certain way, regardless of whether or not it is for the common good.
Quoted from mcluvin:Yesterday I actually got an e-mail and follow up call from a car dealership that I've never done business with. That was a new one for me. They knew my loan was soon to be paid off. I imagine dealerships are hurting pretty bad right now.
I've heard they're practically giving cars away right now to move inventory. Huge discounts. No payments for six months. Zero percent interest for seven years ...
Quoted from RTR:To the Just Flu'ers - The CDC flu mortality numbers are estimates, not reported flu deaths. In the last 6 flu seasons the actual Reported Flu Deaths have ranged from 3,448-15,620. CDC then takes that yearly number and runs it through an algorithm to come up with the Estimated Flu Deaths that occurred for the year. Thats where the 60,000 number comes from.
The Covid death number is a Reported number. It will be adjusted upwards at a later date. But 72,000 Reported deaths in 3 months is huge - it is a national emergency and fully warrants a vigorous response - more vigorous than what has been enacted. Comparing the Reported number of Covid deaths to the Estimated flu deaths number is not useful. Of course, it's not useful anyway because <drumroll>.......Covid is not Flu.
I suggest that comparing the Estimated Flu Death number for a year to the Reported Covid-19 death number for 3 months is purposely misleading, dangerous, and possibly criminal.
But for you hardcore Flu Enthusiasts - I suggest you read this article (was posted previously by someone, but some people have obviously not read it):
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/comparing-covid-19-deaths-to-flu-deaths-is-like-comparing-apples-to-oranges/
Perhaps the CDC purposely gives inflated flu death estimates in order to encourage more people to get a flu shot each year.
The psychology behind why some people won't wear masks ...
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/06/health/why-people-dont-wear-masks-wellness-trnd/index.html
Quoted from too-many-pins:Maybe it is time to just open things up again and let those who are going to die go ahead and die? Maybe it is time to let people do as they dam well please?
If people only had the potential to hurt themselves, then I'd be all for it. Unfortunately, when people run around without masks or fail to maintain proper physical distances from others, it has the potential to kill me or someone in my family.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:To top it all off no one can seem to agree on the facts. There seems to be an article, a doctor, or a scientist that can contradict every viewpoint. If someone doesn't like how data on the virus is being presented they can just browse the internet for an article with "science" that they approve of.
This is one of the things I've been finding so difficult. I try to get my news and information from an array of carefully vetted sources. Even still, I often find conflicting articles that appear to be equally well written and researched. Consequently, my mood and my overall outlook on things is constantly changing based on what particular article I just read. One moment I'll feel optimistic because a promising vaccine just started human trials. Then I'll read another article and be certain that a vaccine is never going to happen. It's downright maddening!
Quoted from swampfire:I'm surprised that I still only know 1 person that got this. She was in her 20s and she recovered pretty well. It would almost be easier (?) to live in a hot spot where everyone knows someone who died from COVID-19, so everyone's being careful.
There is definitely a huge variance in the level of fear based on how widespread the outbreak is where you live. For example, my mother-in-law has been much more lackadaisical about wearing a mask or social distancing when she goes out. She lives in Vegas where they have only had about 260 COVID related deaths in the entire state so far. In comparison, we have had over 2600 deaths in Illinois.
I was just out walking around the neighborhood with my wife and I was shocked to see two moms that I know walking together side by side with no masks. I honestly don't get it.
Quoted from wrb1977:So besides wearing masks I guess you are also an advocate of all bars and restaurants that serve alcohol taking everyone’s car keys upon entry and only being able to get them back after passing a breathalyzer so that some drunk ass while on his way home doesn’t kill an entire innocent family in a minivan on their way home from seeing Toy Story 8??? Besides not wearing masks, there are many ways that people put others at risk each and every day, but the solutions are not considered practical as they infringe upon our freedoms.
The reason why this argument doesn't hold up is because you can use the exact same logic for a counterargument. If someone thinks that being asked to wear a mask infringes upon their freedoms, shouldn't they be equally as mad about speed limits and other laws that are put in place to protect the populace?
Quoted from Jaybird815:Do not buy this $9 bottle of gas station hand sanitizer, it literally smells like vomit.
I picked up a 16.9 oz bottle yesterday at Jewel-Osco for $8. It doesn't smell too bad. Mostly just a strong alcohol smell ...
Hand Sanitizer #1 (resized).jpgHand Sanitizer #2 (resized).jpgQuoted from SantaEatsCheese:I bought red meat from a cow for the first time in 2 weeks at the Dutch Country Farmer's Market in Laurel Maryland. I waited 20 minutes to get in but they were stocked and my family is looking forward to steaks...
The issue with the meat supply is clearly regional. I've seen all the national news stories about empty shelves in all the supermarkets, and yet we haven't had any problems getting meat here. I was just at the store yesterday, and they had plenty of ground beef, pork chops, ribs, steaks, lamb, you name it ... The one thing around here that seems a bit harder to find right now is chicken. That section was mostly picked clean by the time I got to the store in the late afternoon.
Quoted from BobSacamano:Double their celeries.
I don't like celery. Can we go with carrots instead? 
Quoted from woody76:especially over a virus with a .000002 chance of death.
I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have over 80,000 people dead in our country from a virus with only a ".000002 chance of death". 
Quoted from twoplays25c:After post #13624:
"Now Available in ALL Italics!"
Thanks for the heads-up! We'll look into it.
Quoted from wrb1977:It’s almost as if some of you don’t want things to improve “too soon” for reasons that are not allowed to be discussed.
I think it's ridiculous to suggest that anyone in this thread actually wants the pandemic to get worse. I would love nothing more than for this horrible virus to disappear from the face of the Earth tomorrow. But I have to be realistic about the situation based on the numbers and the science. When I suggest that we use caution as we begin to re-open the country, it's not because I have some hidden political agenda. My agenda is plain and simple. I don't want a ton more people to die unnecessarily.
This is precisely why I find the people that refuse to wear masks so frustrating. If they are wrong and the situation is worse than they think, they are potentially killing thousands of people in the name of making a political statement. If it turns out that they were right and the media is indeed blowing this out of proportion, then the only sacrifice they made was wearing a mask. Big fucking deal!!! Is it really that big of a hardship to wear a mask while in public until we can get a better handle on this thing? It seems like anybody who truly cares about society as a whole would err on the side of caution and act as safely as possible, and yet we see people doing the exact opposite.
Quoted from wrb1977:I like Red Lobster, especially those cheddar biscuits!
Those "Cheddar Bay Biscuits" are heavenly!
Quoted from CrazyLevi:When the cheddar biscuits are the best thing on the menu, you know it ain’t a great seafood place!!
The main problem I have with Red Lobster is that it's quite expensive considering how mediocre the food is. There are a bunch of seafood places around here with better food that cost less money. For example, these two places are both awesome and are only 10 minutes from my house ...
Boston Fish Market - http://www.bostonfishmkt.com/
Bob Chinn's Crab House - https://www.bobchinns.com/
Quoted from cdnpinbacon:Is that Yoko leaning against the wall and only noticed one guy rocking out.that happens to be black.
Are you referring to the guy playing the keyboard? That's Billy Preston.
Quoted from srt-8:A sad food chain casualty .... Sweet Tomatoes / Souplantation. Our favourite healthy eating option when visiting the US. Seems the buffet style isn't going to cut it post covid
Bummer. Sweet Tomatoes is my daughter's favorite restaurant. The one by us closed about five years ago, but we would always look forward to going there when we visit my parents in Florida. I agree that the future for buffets is not looking bright. I'm guessing other chains like Golden Corral won't be far behind. Who in their right mind would let their kid eat from a chocolate fountain these days?
And what's going to happen to Vegas, where buffets are an integral part of the culture? I would think the only way buffets survive is if they change their model and no longer allow the patrons to serve themselves.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:"almost everyone did what they were told to do"
That's the difference maker. Americans don't like being told what to do! The acts of stupidity and disrespect are on full display here thanks to years of many Americans living with a growing "no one will tell me what to do" attitude. How many people were shot and killed in New Zealand for being asked to wear a mask, or employees at stores having customers purposely cough / wipe their nose on them, teens coughing on groceries, park rangers pushed into ponds because they asked others to social distance, or a retail store employee (Target, recent story) having their arm broken after a fight broke out over customers not wearing masks? None.
These acts only represent a small part of the US but the amount and frequency of them isn't occuring anywhere else in the world. The sad part is many of these deaths could have been avoided if there was a strict one month national lockdown in the US. Instead individual states are allowed to do whatever they want however strict or loose they want, and this thing is now lasting much longer. Why? Americans don't like to be inconvenienced in the slightest.
End rant lol.
Quoted from wrb1977:That is NOT the difference maker or the primary reason why our numbers are higher.
I’ve discussed this before, you cannot compare either of two island countries with the US. If you want to compare numbers with Australia or New Zealand use our state of Hawaii for something at least comparable, but with a lesser but still significant population...
Hawaii has had a total of 17 covid deaths.
New York’s Governor Cuomo announced last week that 66% of the their state’s new coronavirus patients WERE sheltering in place at home. So the majority of New Yorkers that needed hospitalized because of the virus WERE doing what they were being told and still ended up in the hospital!
MANY areas within the continental US are doing as good a job as countries like Australia. These areas in our country that are doing good are more isolated and have lesser population densities than places like New York City.
Yes, many people are not following orders here in the US, but that is far down on the list as to why our numbers are higher than an island country, such as New Zealand, which by nature is self isolated. Other factors such as total population, population density, general living conditions, heavy use of public transportation, race and ethnicity, weather?, etc. have a much bigger impact on why our numbers are higher than your theory. Your rant is trying to place primary blame on the people where the bigger problem is we are a victim of the physical makeup of our very vast and unique country. Just compare the numbers from state to state and it is clear why some areas of our country are doing better than others. Some of our states are bigger in size than many smaller countries, but with lower population densities. These are the primary states that are doing VERY well. Make sure when you analyze data you are comparing apples to apples...just my 2 cents.
I thumbs upped both of these posts. I do think Americans being so resistant to being told what to do is a big factor in why we've had such a big outbreak here, but I also agree that there are many other factors involved such as population density, climate, etc ...
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Lol very true. There's nothing like going into one thinking "I'm starving and will eat 10 plates of food" and then leaving thinking "what in the hell was I thinking".
I love buffets! Always have and always will. I just hope they don't go the way of the dodo bird. I also love cruising, another industry that is getting pummeled.
Quoted from chad:I was just thinking about this. In homes Would some of the particles lodge in the filters, and some be pushed through. Maybe have to change the filters more often.?
Filters don't lose their filtering properties over time. They just become less efficient as the air resistance increases.
Quoted from jhanley:Was wondering if they still had Duck boats there after what happened in Branson Missouri.
They still operate the duck boats in Wisconsin Dells.
Quoted from Mr68:Some people want to fight wearing a mask while I'm gonna have fun with it. This new one arrived yesterday and I have some other stylish masks coming soon. Wear your mask and show you care.
How do you keep your sunglasses from fogging up?
Quoted from Utesichiban:I'd wager China alone has had well over 100k deaths. Not a snowballs chance in hell the country where this started has only had 4600 deaths.
I have to admit, that number does seem implausibly low.
Quoted from gambit3113:85,000 American have died choking on their own lung fluid from a virus, in a little more than 60 days. That's a lot of dead people.
People don't have to agree on everything, but a modicum of caution surely is warranted. Wearing a mask in public is so restrictive and oppressive that we should rather sacrifice another 85K? Another 200K? How many dead people are worth not having to at least wear a mask? Be honest.
I'll tell you what really worries me. Now that we have seen all these morons that refuse to take simple precautions like wearing a mask in public, it dawned on me that a shitload of these same idiots will probably refuse to get the vaccine if/when one is available.
Quoted from gambit3113:To be fair, that billboard has been up long before COVID-19 was an issue. They run a series of signs in a row, like Burma Shave. The one preceding the Risk It For Brisket one says something about holding your pee for a few more miles.
Debate the risks of exploding your bladder and contaminating your innards with urine as you wish. But it’s not that brazen.
Damn. That sign was so much funnier when I thought they were actually asking people to risk their lives for some brisket.
Quoted from BobSacamano:Wow, still with the TP?
TP is starting to become easier to get around here. The last few times I was in the grocery store there was plenty of TP available. It wasn't necessarily my preferred brand, but a few weeks ago you couldn't find any at all. Hand sanitizer is also starting to appear on shelves again. The only thing that's still almost impossible to get where I live are the Clorox/Lysol disinfectant wipes. Unless you are at the store right when they first open in the morning, you don't have a prayer.
Get Ready for a Vaccine Information War
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/13/technology/coronavirus-vaccine-disinformation.html
Quoted from Darcy:Had the Golf Skins Game on yesterday. The TV is usually on in the background. There was no audience, which I realized later that I didn't hear that dufuss yell out, "Get In The Hole", on each Tee Off.
... or "Baba Booey!!!" 
Quoted from DCFAN:When hearing about Annie Glenn I always think back to the movie "The Right Stuff" and the portrayal of Mrs. Glenn by actress Mary Jo Deschanel (mom of Zooey Deschanel).
I've always loved that movie. It's the first thing I can remember seeing Ed Harris in. The whole cast was great!
For all of the people that still think the coronavirus is a hoax, it's time to put up or shut up ...
Hydroxychloroquine is a great drug, just not for COVID. My wife was on it for years to treat her rheumatoid arthritis. It improved the quality of her life immensely.
Quoted from Mr68:I'm sensing Covid fatigue in myself. While I still follow safety protocols and most likely will the remainder of my life, I feel like I'm dropping my guard somewhat.
Same here. I've for sure become a bit more complacent the last couple weeks. I'm still being somewhat cautious, but I'm definitely not as OCD about it as I was before. For example, I used to re-plate all the food that was delivered. Now I'm willing to eat it in the container it comes in and just make sure to wash my hands thoroughly afterward.
Quoted from DCFAN:UV radiation is higher in the summer.
Correct, because when it is summer your hemisphere is tilted toward the sun.
Quoted from too-many-pins:Sadly I think things are about to get very bad very quickly from what I have been seeing the past few days. Ever since things started opening back up people are acting the the 'worst is behind us" and things are headed back to normal.
It's truly scary. Some people are acting as if the virus has been completely eradicated. Case in point ...
I see everyone focusing primarily on the daily number of new COVID-19 cases in a given city, state, etc ... but that number doesn't seem as important as the the percentage of new cases based on the total number of tests performed each day. Testing is all over the map, and this would be the best way to compare one geographic area to another. It would also be a more accurate way to gauge how the spread in a particular area is trending.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:If you get a positive result definitely inquire about which brand. I believe the Abbott test is the one with considerable false-positives. The Roche one seems to have better stats.
I would think if you are a family of four living together and you all test positive for the antibodies, that would be a good indicator that you all were all indeed exposed to the virus. It seems unlikely that there would be four false positives, and more likely that the virus would spread to every member of a single household.
It's pretty sad that these days I am immediately skeptical of any group or media outlet with the word "Freedom" in the title.
Quoted from Mr68:I walked past a sedan with 5 or 6 college students rocking to their music. None of them were wearing a mask ...
I can't explain why, but when I see stuff like this around my house it makes my blood boil. I was out driving with my son yesterday and we drove past a group of 7-8 teenagers that were all just hanging out like the coronavirus never even existed. None of them had masks on, and they were hardly six feet apart. One of the girls was even sitting on the guy's lap. Now don't get me wrong, I completely understand where they are coming from. When I was a teenager I probably would have done the exact same thing. I don't blame the kids. I blame their parents.
Quoted from metallik:Blood boiling? No reason getting worked up over it. Just protect yourself.
I fully acknowledge that my extreme reaction is probably unwarranted, but something about it just really pisses me off. When parents allow their kids to hang out in groups like that, it increases the chance of spread in the neighborhood. I realize that the kids are probably driving them nuts and begging them to hang out with their friends, but show a little backbone for fuck's sake. It's okay to say no. Heck, I have two teenagers of my own and obviously they would love to hang out with their friends, but they both understand that our family is taking this very seriously and that they probably won't be seeing their friends until school resumes at some point.
Quoted from metallik:When I see similar groups I just give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they quarantined together for the most part. Social bubbles they're calling it now.
This is something I hadn't heard of, but I just looked it up. I guess some people are willing to expand their shelter in place group by deaming others as "safe". They all agree to abide by certain rules and precautions, and then they can hang out, go over to each other's houses, etc ... It's an interesting concept, but my OCD would never allow me to put that kind of faith in another family at this juncture.
Quoted from srmonte:... and no we do not all agree that face masks save lives ... If I am in a place that requires masks I will wear one. I probably wont try and go back there anytime soon. But if no face mask is required no face mask for me hurray for freedom!
So I have a question for you. It's clear that you are firmly entrenched in the anti-mask camp, but if you were to hypothetically wake up one day with a fever and a cough, would you still refuse to wear a mask in public unless you were forced to?
Quoted from srmonte:If I was feeling or showing symptoms I would stay out of public. And if I had to go out I would wear a mask. But yes I am not willing to wear one for the hell of it.
I figured this would be your answer. You are a good person at your core, thus you acknowledge that you would wear a mask if you were showing symptoms in order to minimize the risk of getting others sick. But since we know for a fact that people who are asymptomatic can also spread the virus, wouldn't it be prudent to wear a mask any time you are in public just in case?
Explain to me your logic behind this response. Do you not agree that the virus can be transmitted by people who are not showing any symptoms?
Quoted from srmonte:Seeing as though you are not American. I know you would never understand.
See that's the thing I find incredibly frustrating. How does one's nationality have anything to do with whether or not it is appropriate to wear a mask? The virus doesn't give a shit if you are American, German, Australian, etc ...
Quoted from CrazyLevi:This whole mask debate is a huge embarrassment for America.
Like...this is a once in a lifetime low point.
The world is pointing and laughing at us. It’s sad.
I couldn't agree more. We really look bad right now in the eyes of the world. Is there any other place on the planet where the virus has become so politicized?
Quoted from EJS:I don't consider myself an environmentalist but I don't throw my trash wherever. Just stuff that s*** in those awkward crevasses of your car door where nothing else logically fits and throw it out once a week.
I've been keeping a paper shopping bag in my back seat specifically for this purpose. As soon as I leave a store and get back to my car, I toss the dirty gloves in the bag.
Quoted from Deaconblooze:My wife and I are now discussing slowly opening our circle.
We've been pretty cautious, but we just decided to take a small step towards returning to normal. Our cleaning lady normally comes once a week. We've been paying her all this time, but we haven't allowed her to come since mid March. We recently decided that we are willing to have her start working again. She will be here tomorrow morning. We are definitely a little nervous about it, but we have decided that the risk is acceptable as long as she is asymptomatic and wears a mask the whole time. We'll just keep our distance from her and allow her to do her thing.
Quoted from o-din:What I want too know is what happens if a major second wave hits in the next couple months and health care facilities across the country get overrun?
If a second wave happens, I fear that it could be far worse than the first wave because a good percentage of the US population will be even more defiant of the safety protocols than they were before. These people have been lulled into a false sense of security, and they truly believe this whole thing is some sort of bullshit conspiracy. If it gets so bad that municipalities are forced to enact stay at home orders again, I'm guessing a ton of people will simply ignore those orders. If we don't have some way better treatments and therapeutics by then, we're basically f***ed.
Quoted from cottonm4:Boeing's stock is going nuts so if one's idea that the economy is booming because the stock is going crazy, then by all means tell me the economy is booming.
With the wealthiest 1% now owning over 50% of the stocks held by American households, the stock market is hardly an accurate indicator of the overall state of the economy ...
Quoted from cottonm4:I should have turned and walked away---but I did not. I'm kicking myself.
My state has opened up. I went to a cafe for a particular dish of food.
The sign on the door essentially said (I'm paraphrasing) " The county says you cannot come into this establishment if you have Covid-19."
This was the first busy restaurant I have seen. It is blue collar clientele all the way. Old timers. I was able to keep a 6 foot diatance, but the shop was not doing anything special. All booths were in use. Seemed like old times.
It was stupid to go on in. I won't make that dumb mistake again. But it can be so easy to let your guard down.
Were you wearing a mask, and if so, did you feel like other people in the restaurant were judging you for it? I'm guessing there are a lot of people in this country that might personally feel more comfortable wearing a mask in public right now, but they probably don't because of societal pressure where they live.
Quoted from hAbO:The last update by the White House Coronavirus Task Force was a month ago. WTF?
Yeah, it's very odd. It's like they've completely washed their hands of it and are leaving it entirely up to the individual states now.
Quoted from cottonm4:I already saw Pink Floyd. Great show.
It would take Led Zeppelin to get me on board and take the risk.
I wouldn't want to be in a stadium with 20,000 people right now even if the Beatles put on a concert with John and George resurrected from the dead for one night only.
Quoted from WJxxxx:Black, Asian, Minority Ethinc
I had never seen that acronym before. I had to look it up. I assume you live in the UK?
Quoted from sven:And still a lot of people think 'mostly the elderly die, nothing to worry about when you're healthy and young'. It seems logical to focus of the number of deaths, but I think the attention to the problems of those that don't die, the majority, has been underexposed for most of the time.
Yeah, there is this huge misconception that you either catch it and die, or catch it and are perfectly fine once you recover. The reality is that there is a vast spectrum of possible outcomes that lie somewhere in between.
Quoted from chad:Now this, people should know not to do.
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/ppe-masks-gloves-toilet-metro-vancouver
People are such morons!
Quoted from PantherCityPins:Incorrect.
If the increase in cases was simply due to increased testing you wouldn't see a difference in states. For example, Connecticut tested 1.7% of their population this week and had 1.3% positive tests. Arizona, on the other hand, tested 1.7% of their population as well but had 22% positive tests. Arizona therefore has a higher transmission rate and more actual cases vs Connecticut.
Also, states that have current case surges like Texas, Arizona, Florida and California also have increases in hospitalizations for COVID-19. Again, if the increase was just testing and there was no actual increase in cases then you wouldn't see increases in hospitalizations because you would just be uncovering those milder cases that you weren't testing before.
Lastly, here is a chart of tests per capita broken down by country. You can see the US is smack dab in the middle of the countries listed as far as how many tests per capita. We trail countries like Spain, Portugal, Canada, New Zealand, Russia and Australia.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/international-comparison
Don't believe everything you hear.
Hey, stop using facts and data to make your point! 
Quoted from Snux:In the UK we finally get a couple of hot days (well hot for us, it's in the mid 80s Fahrenheit) and the beaches go nuts.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-53176717
One idiot interviewed "well I still don't know anyone that's had it, so in my eyes it don't really matter".
It's kind of comforting to know that America doesn't have a monopoly on stupid.
Quoted from Oaken:There are also plenty of stories of people that weren't even hospitalized, (but were sick enough to go get tested and know they had it), that struggle to walk up flights of stairs or around the block even weeks after "recovery".
This describes a friend of mine. He is 47 years old and was in good shape before contracting the virus. It has now been over 12 weeks and he is still struggling. This thing just hit him like a ton of bricks. Fortunately, he never had to go on a ventilator, but the physical and even mental toll has been enormous. At this point he honestly doesn't know if he will ever fully recover.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:This is what happens when politicians who only care about getting re-elected make decisions about public health.
You would think that constituents dying would be bad for re-election as well, but apparently not.
Illinois just moved into "Phase 4" today. Basically, everything is back open again with capacity limits in place. I feel fortunate to live in a state where the governor has taken this whole thing very seriously since day one. Each phase of our re-opening has been strictly based on the data. In fact, I think we are one of the only states that met every CDC guideline for re-opening. I just hope people still take it seriously and continue to be smart when they are out and about. I could easily see us start to backslide if people become too complacent.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Everybody just needs to stay home for a couple months ...
LOL!!! I'm pretty sure you couldn't even get everybody to stay home for a couple days at this point.
Quoted from Deaconblooze:Our governor took it seriously, but then the WI supreme court cured the virus, so it made all of his orders completely unnecessary. I don't understand why other states supreme courts don't cure covid like ours did.
You guys sure do march to the beat of your own drum up there ...
https://consequenceofsound.net/2020/06/herd-immunity-rock-festival/
Quoted from albummydavis:Everyone keeps pointing to the states with current spikes as having irresponsible mask usage. Apparently people in states that were initially hard hit are equally short-sighted. My son had a baseball tournament in CT. He played three teams from the NYC area. Not a single mask on a single kid, even in dugouts. Not an single coach wearing one. Maybe the occasional parent. Our team was marginally better. Was a little surprised.
Yeah, people seem to have very short memories, which is why I think we're all f****d. Chicago got hit really hard early on. We're doing very well numbers wise right now, but a lot of people are starting to become way too complacent, especially the younger generation. Many of them seem unable to grasp the fact that they are a potential transmission vector whether they will personally get sick or not. When you factor this in with all the major spread that is currently happening in other states, I think it's pretty much a guarantee that we will start to see a major rise in cases here again within the next 4-6 weeks.
Regardless of the intent, it's clear that some people find the term offensive, so let's just stop using it in this thread. Thanks!
This is a great tool that shows you the current risk level all over the globe. In the US, you can search all the way down to the county level ...
https://globalepidemics.org/key-metrics-for-covid-suppression/
Quoted from Who-Dey:I guess that every country has their problems. I am friends with people from other countries on here and they tell me that their country is being ruined also by the same reasons the U.S. is.
I blame it on social media. It is basically ruining the very fabric of our society. There has always been division, but the internet has made the situation 1000 times worse.
Quoted from gweempose:I blame it on social media.
Quoted from razorsedge:Openly referred to by a lot of people as "anti-social media".
I was listening to a podcast the other day, and the guy perfectly summed up my thoughts on social media ...
"We've all been enrolled in a psychological experiment for which no one gave consent, and it's not yet clear how it will turn out."
Quoted from Tuukka:According to my calculator, 4.5% of 3.1 million is 139500. Looks like the 4.5% is quite correct.
The math does indeed yield a death rate of around 4.5%, but I don't think that number gives an accurate picture of how deadly the virus is. It completely ignores all the asymptomatic or mildly sick carriers that never got tested. My guess is that less than 25% of the people who were infected in our country actually got tested. This would put the true death rate closer to 1%, which is still nothing to sneeze at (no pun intended).
Quoted from Pinball_Freak:Why is America unable to contain this virus?
That's an excellent question. You would think one of the wealthiest countries in the world with such a robust health care system would have done an amazing job of handling the virus. Instead, we are a complete laughing stock. Unfortunately, I can't properly answer your question without getting into politics.
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:Local news is saying using a public restroom is very dangerous.
I don't doubt it. I haven't used a public restroom since March.
Quoted from gambit3113:Houston and Dallas ISDs are going to virtual-only school for the first several weeks now. As if it's getting better and they will be opening in September. Here we go. Time to stay home again.
My wife is a school librarian, so both her and my kids are going to be faced with the prospect of returning to school next month. My wife is scared out of her mind. I tried to explain to her that the statistics are in our favor, even if we catch the virus, but it didn't make her feel any better. I just wish our country had a better handle on things and we weren't in this situation right now.
Quoted from jfre81:And here in Chicagoland, we're doing a better job than most of the country in managing the virus. Even still, we're seeing an uptick in new cases since indoor dining/bars started up again.
I think the writing is on the wall. We're going to see a big surge again here. This thing is just too damn contagious, and people simply aren't being careful enough.
Quoted from jfre81:Starting in-person school on the usual schedule is probably not the best idea either. People talk so much about whether kids get sick or not, as if kids conduct school on their own independent of adults, often of the aging, high-risk sort.
I agree with this 100%. Everyone is focusing on the wrong thing. They argue that we should re-open the schools because kids in general don't get as sick or die from it. This completely ignores all the teachers and staff that will be exposed at school, as well as all the family members that will be exposed when the kids bring it home.
Quoted from Utesichiban:Utah County borders us and needs one as well but these anti-maskers are fighting it. Our governor has left it to the mayors and local level. He has dropped the ball and dragged his feet too long IMO...needs to order a statewide mandate... a month ago.
It could be worse. At least your governor isn't actively undermining the ability for local municipalities to pass mask mandates ...
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/us/georgia-mayors-kemp-mask-order/index.html
Quoted from phil-lee:Posing with worthless rags just to be "Compliant" is not my method of operation. Use a proper N-95 or higher rated mask to avoid virus transmission or don't waste your time wearing one at all. The Science backs properly tested 3M N-95 masks and others from major manufacturers.
But the reality is that most people don't even wear N95 masks properly. To be fully effective, they need to have a good seal. You can't have any facial hair, for example.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:In a situation like this pandemic where people feel they have no control over the situation, wearing a mask gives them back that feeling of control and safety. Regardless of how effective or non-effective they are, the psychological benefit is just as important.
Very true, but the psychological benefit can actually become a detriment if people falsely assume that they are invincible when wearing a mask. Even with a mask, you should still adhere to proper distancing protocols whenever possible.
Quoted from cottonm4:Just one glance at this chart and you can see deaths are going down.
Am I missing something? That chart clearly shows that death rates are on the rise again.
Quoted from fosaisu:He’s sarcastically quoting someone in a position of authority.
Ah. In that case, I withdraw my thumbs down and give the post a thumbs up!
Quoted from jwilson:I have a technical question about the moderation here. It’s set to mod approval, but the above post was approved and then moderated? Why was it approved if it was going to be moderated?
Good question. The way the system is currently set up, we have to approve a post if we want to moderate it.
My friend and her husband just tested positive for coronavirus the other day. In my opinion, they are perfect examples of why this country is so fucked right now. This whole time they have been eating out at restaurants, socializing with other families, allowing their kids to hang out with groups of other kids, etc ... often without masks. Who knows how many people they gave it to before they came down with symptoms.
Quoted from jamesmc:Is Earl Anthony still bowling?
LOL! It's so funny how the only pro bowler most people can name is Earl Anthony. He's certainly the only one I can name. According to Wikipedia, he died in 2001.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:I would love to see masks being worn for flu. We could really put a dent in airborne virus transmission with more cautious behavior across the board. I think though that you are seeing first hand why masks aren't a part of our culture. We can't get people to wear masks for covid-19, they sure as hell aren't going to do it for flu.
Putting aside politics, what exactly is it about Americans that makes us so unconcerned about others? Are we just assholes? As has already been pointed out in this thread, people in many other cultures wear a mask without hesitation to protect their fellow citizens if they are feeling under the weather. Americans, on the other hand, regularly go to work with fevers and no mask.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:The whole school decision is really, really tough for a lot of parents.
Tough for teachers too. My wife just found out yesterday that her position as junior high librarian is being eliminated this year. They just can't figure out a way to safely incorporate the library into the curriculum.
Quoted from razorsedge:"Victoria has entered a State of Disaster, and the entire metropolitan Melbourne area is now under Stage 4 coronavirus restrictions."
It just goes to show how quickly things can escalate even in a region that previously had a handle on things. This virus is so damn contagious that as soon as you show even the slightest bit of complacency, it is ready to pounce.
The only way for school openings to work in places where there is significant viral spread is if the entire community bands together and starts to take this whole situation seriously. I find it unbelievably hypocritical when parents yell at the school boards and demand that their kids go back to the classrooms, and yet these same parents have no problem letting their kids hang out socially with large groups of other kids. Schools can have the best safety protocols in the world, but it's not going to matter if people aren't also being safe outside of school.
I went to pick up some Chinese takeout last night. When I got to the restaurant, there were two men already waiting inside the small pickup area. Neither of them had a mask on, despite the fact that there was sign on the door clearly stating that masks were required. On top of that, their is a statewide mandate requiring masks whenever you are in public. People are such idiots!
Quoted from Deaconblooze:https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1293702144877629440?s=09
Pretty funny. Worth a quick watch
It's funny that the person who retweeted that is none other than ex-NBA star Rex Chapman. I was a huge fan of his back in the day. I guess he's become quite popular on social media over the years. I'll never forget his famous buzzer beater in the 1997 playoffs against Seattle to send the game into overtime ...
Quoted from jlm33:Home schooling also makes social inequalities far worse. Clearly not optimal to study at home in a small noisy apartment with noisy little sisters or brothers. Some families cannot afford one computer per child, etc. Not to mention the parents who desperately need to work and will only have sub-optimal solutions to take care of the kids during school hours.
These are valid points. I worked from home even before the pandemic, but my wife is now teaching second grade from home, and my 16 year old twins are now both learning from home as well. I feel very blessed that we are in a situation where we all have devices and have enough space to spread out. I fully realize that this is not the case for many families.
I think the Sturgis Rally was just about the stupidest thing possible in the middle of a pandemic, but even I have a hard time buying the numbers in that report.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Today for whatever reason I saw more people ignoring the mask rules than I ever have. I wanted to yell at them and tell them how F'ing stupid they are but I really didn't feel like getting in a fight today.
A fight could be the least of your problems. You could get stabbed. You could get shot It's just not worth it. Anybody who is stupid enough to ignore the mask laws is not someone you want to risk angering.
Quoted from Luckydogg420:It will be a long time before I eat indoors at a restaurant, I’m quite fine with the patio in the summer.
Yeah, I just can't imagine eating indoors right now with everything we know about the virus. It just seems way too risky to me. If you want to support your local restaurants, dine outside if possible, or take the food to go.
Quoted from hAbO:The NYPost is like getting your news from the National Enquirer. Fun to read but factual?
From Media Fact Check:
According to an LA Times article, the New York Post was reported to be the preferred newspaper of the U.S. President, who maintains frequent contact with its owner, Rupert Murdoch. The Post, According to a survey conducted by Pace University in 2004, was rated the least-credible major news outlet in New York. Further, The Post has been criticized since the beginning of Murdoch’s ownership for “sensationalism, blatant advocacy, and conservative bias.”
A factual search reveals several failed checks.
Ted Cruz ‘same senator who once supported a ban on sex toys’ – Mostly False
Newly Discovered Planet Could Destroy Earth Any Day Now – False
Hillary Clinton Regularly Had Her Maid Print Classified Documents – Unproven
PS 169 Pledge of Allegiance and Holiday Ban Controversy – Mostly False
‘New York Post’ op-ed rebuts starving children claim that was never made – Pants on Fire
Overall we rate the New York Post on the far end of Right-Center Biased due to story selection that typically favors the Right and Mixed (borderline questionable) for factual reporting based on several failed fact checks. (7/16/2016) Updated (M. Huitsing 7/13/2019)
Sadly, a lot of people have no idea that their news source is biased. Here's a great chart that shows the bias of some of the most popular online news sources ...
Media Bias Chart (resized).jpgQuoted from DadofTwins:It doesn't matter what we were told to do or not to do by the government, lots of people are gonna do what they want regardless. If we can't ALL wear a mask and stop the spread etc...., then it seems to be a wasted effort, because then someone else is always spreading it. Everyone wants to finger point and blame, but the reality is our country as a whole is to blame, because we cannot come together as a collective unit and do what needs to be done.
Your logic is ridiculously flawed. It's not all or nothing. If 50% of the population wears a mask, then a lot less people will get sick or die than if nobody wears a mask. It's just that simple. I agree that America has some serious issues, and it probably would have been more difficult for us to take on the virus than some other countries regardless, but it's impossible to ignore the fact that our fearless leader not only discouraged mask usage, but openly mocked them. The damage that was done by this course of action is immeasurable.
Quoted from Lame33:I'm sure it's just fake news by a three-time Pulitzer Prize finalist, but the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has a very comprehensive story on the scientific and governmental response to this pandemic. We saw most of this happen, but the timeline and explanations of what was supposed to occur was enlightening.
https://www.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/2020/10/14/america-had-worlds-best-pandemic-response-plan-playbook-why-did-fail-coronavirus-covid-19-timeline/3587922001/
The headline sells it better than the link:
The U.S. was the world's best prepared nation to confront a pandemic. How did it spiral to 'almost inconceivable' failure?
Interviews with public health experts and reviews of studies by government agencies, watchdog groups and scientists reveal a cascade of blunders.
There is an excellent documentary that just came out called "Totally Under Control" which explores this in depth.
Quoted from gweempose:There is an excellent documentary that just came out called "Totally Under Control" which explores this in depth.
Quoted from cottonm4:Do you have a link?
You can rent it on demand. It will also be on Hulu starting tomorrow.
Quoted from PinMonk:The longer people resist masks, the longer this will be dragged out and our economy will suffer.
Therein lies the irony. Instead of embracing masks from the beginning and educating people, our leadership chose to play down the pandemic and focus on the importance of reopening the economy. If they had just listened to the scientists in the first place, our economy wouldn't be in the toilet right now.
Quoted from Oaken:I think this is a very slick article on virus aerosol spread. Bravo to the graphics department.
https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html
That's a great article, and it explains why certain activities like going to the gym are a really bad idea right now. I went to the DMV with my son last weekend to get his driver's license. Even though everyone was wearing masks and we were six feet apart, I was still very uncomfortable being forced to wait in that room for 30 minutes or so.
Quoted from poppapin:Interesting snapshot of covid hospitalizations. Are they really over run?
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/number-of-covid-19-hospitalizations-state-by-state-july-15.html
You need to look at the number of ICU beds available, not total number of beds.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:Unfortunately we are breaking records with new numbers of cases.
That's only because we are doing more testing ... 
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:Im just pissed. One Platform, including children, media, and Pundits is telling everyone the Numbers are down, hardly anyone is dying. There are no issues to be concerned. How does this stand, so its repeated back to me as the "Truth"? Are we really that bad at understanding reality?
It's very disheartening to see what's happening to our country right now. Social media and other echo chambers are allowing disinformation and outright lies to become an accepted alternate reality. It's quite possibly the greatest breakdown in communication the world has ever seen.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:Well, the US surpassed 100,000 new daily cases yesterday, with no indication of slowing down.
I just heard a shocking statistic. The US just had more cases in a single day than China has had TOTAL since the beginning of the pandemic. Let that one sink in for a bit.
A very encouraging announcement by Pfizer today. They say an early peek at its vaccine data suggests the shots may be 90% effective at preventing COVID-19, indicating the company is on track later this month to file an emergency use application with U.S. regulators. 
https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-4f4ae2e3bad122d17742be22a2240ae8
Watching all those people out in the streets celebrating definitely made me cringe a bit, but I'm conflicted because it's exactly the sort of thing the rest of the world needs to see from us right now.
Quoted from Oaken:In a discouraging update, Scott Atlas (a task force covid advisor) was on the TVs yesterday advocating that everyone should spend one last Thanksgiving with their elderly relatives.
Not. Helping.
That dude is just insane! Seriously, where did they find this quack?
Quoted from henrydwh:She will go see her mother out of town, no mask! Have her daughter come over from out of town, no mask! Apparently her family members are immune to this ...
Unfortunately, people often have blinders on when it comes to family, and it's one of the main reasons this thing is spreading so rapidly. To me, it's not that complicated. Unless you have strictly quarantined, you should always operate under the assumption that you are infected. If people want to visit with family members safely, then both parties need to isolate for a couple weeks first. And I'm talking STRICT isolation. No leaving the house for unnecessary errands. Nothing that puts you in close proximity to someone outside your home. If you are unable to do this because of your job or some other reason, then you need to accept the fact that you can't safely visit with your family right now. For example, I haven't let my brother or even my parents in my house since March. I'll hang out with them outside in my backyard, but that's it. I think if everyone was this cautious, we would be in a much better place as a country right now.
I have a good friend who is head of radiology at a major hospital. He told me that one thing he's noticed with this most recent wave of cases is that the age is trending much lower than it did earlier in the year. He's seeing lots of otherwise healthy people without any underlying conditions in their 40's and even 30's with severe cases. It's frustrating, because even after all this time they don't really understand why it affects some people so drastically.
Quoted from rwmech5:All air travel needs to be suspended and ground movement restricted. Toronto has had 20+ covid positive flights land since Dec 15. This virus spreads too easily and cannot be contained until people stop moving it around. Once regions can get stabilized businesses can reopen and we can protect our elderly population who account for more than 80% of the deaths.
Over winter break, I noticed on Facebook that so many people I know were travelling with their families. They were all over the place. Florida, Arizona, Colorado, you name it. Many of these families were also posting pictures of themselves in crowded settings. I swear, we are our own worst enemies. It's one thing arguing against lockdowns, but how do you possibly justify taking a vacation that exposes you to so many people during the most deadly wave of the pandemic?
Quoted from RTR:If you are looking to get vaccinated but aren’t in the right category - check to see if there is a standby list.
Our County health dept has a lottery at the end of the day to make sure any vaccine leftover from the days appointments goes into an arm and isn’t wasted. We just email them each day and they randomly select from that pool each day (today is the first day here) the number of people to match up with the leftover doses.
That sounds like a great system, and they should be doing something like that everywhere. This stuff is like liquid gold, and it's too precious to waste even a single dose.
We don't have any Waffle Houses around here. The first one I ever encountered was on a road trip with my wife years ago. We were so excited to check it out, but then we took one look at the menu and were super disappointed. We assumed that a place called "Waffle House" would have all different types of awesome waffles with fruit, whipped cream, chocolate, etc ... Nope. They basically just had plain waffles, and they were average at best. This was over 20 years ago, so they may have expanded their menu since then, but we haven't been back since.
Quoted from MrBally:They gotta be doing something right as they are one of, if not the largest retailer of prepared sausage and bacon in the world.
It's good to hear they are doing their part in the fight against heart disease!
Quoted from nwpinball:This is how my city has been handling dining and drinking during the pandemic. Allowing businesses to build out structures on the sidewalk and into a parking strip or outdoor business.
We have these same kind of "tents" as well, but I don't see how they are in any way safer than allowing people in the restaurant itself. Since it's freezing outside, they are fully walled in. At least the restaurants have ventilation. In my eyes, the whole concept is nothing more than a way to exploit a loophole and get around the restrictions. The external structures made sense back when it was warm out and you could open up the sides and essentially be eating outside, but you couldn't pay me to eat in one now.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Some of the more clever ones - at least here in NYC - are actual divided pods with heaters in them. So, perfectly safe.
Are they, though? Sure, you're not eating in the space at the same time as other people, but you are still breathing the same air as the party that was dining there before you. It's not like they exchange all the air with fresh air after each party leaves. In my mind, there is still a lot of risk, especially with these more contagious strains that are starting to circulate.
Quoted from Daditude:Im wondering 2 things:
1) will other ventures start requiring this?
2) what type of proof would need to be provided?
Therein lies the problem. How do you prove that you were vaccinated? Even if they were to create some kind of official online database of everyone who has been vaccinated, people will still try to fake their way on to it.
Quoted from mcluvin:PSA - Being overweight or obese now qualifies you for the vaccine in Georgia regardless of age.
Damn! I should have eaten more Twinkies during the lockdown!
Quoted from Jaybird815:Smokers along with the obese can get the vaccine in Illinois ...
Does smoking weed count?
Quoted from Jaybird815:I agree, I’m personally waiting on the J&J vaccine due to the slight chance of anaphylactic reaction with the others.
I'm inclined to wait for the J&J vaccine as well. I'm not worried about an allergic reaction, but I just feel more comfortable with the traditional virus based delivery method. Don't get me wrong, I would take one of the mRNA vaccines without hesitation if they were the only option, but I'd rather wait for the J&J if I have a choice.
Quoted from mcluvin:They have a much greater chance of dying from Covid is what I read...
What about the poor cokeheads and heroin addicts?
A friend of mine just sent me this, and I'm not sure what to make of it. What the guy is saying is pretty scary, but it seems to go directly against the view held by a majority of the scientific community. In general, I tend to value the collective view over the view of a single individual, especially when science is concerned. What do you guys think? Is there any merit to what this guy is saying, or is he just a nutjob?
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:We were only able to get appointment by spending an Hour online, at 7 AM, on a Monday, when new amounts have been released.
My brother and I did this for my parents a couple months ago. They are in Florida, but we got them their appointments at Publix from our computers in Chicago.
Quoted from mcluvin:Pfizer and Moderna 80% effective 2 weeks after first shot. Now that's great news!
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/29/cdc-study-shows-single-dose-of-pfizer-or-moderna-covid-vaccines-was-80percent-effective.html
Yep. Amazing news! The CDC study indicates that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are not only highly effective in keeping people from getting sick, but they are also highly effective in preventing people from getting infected at all. This is huge, as it means that people who have been vaccinated are no longer a significant transmission vector:
Consistent with clinical trial data, a two-dose regimen prevented 90 percent of infections by two weeks after the second shot. One dose prevented 80 percent of infections by two weeks after vaccination.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/29/world/pfizer-moderna-covid-vaccines-infection.html
I received my first Pfizer shot yesterday afternoon. My arm is sore today, but I have no other symptoms. My friend said that you should keep your arm moving for thirty minutes after getting your shot. Supposedly, it can help with the soreness. Of course, he didn't mention this until AFTER I got my shot.
Quoted from pinwiztom:My wife and I had J&J vax on Firday.
She had absolutely no side effects, I had sore arm and fatigue after 24hrs, then fine.
But now just hope my wife does not read about the blood clot issue with J&J, as she is such a worrier.
Quoted from mcluvin:I'm sure she'll be fine (6 reported cases in 6.8 million doses administered), but it's important to know the symptoms to look for.
"For people who have received the Johnson & Johnson shot, those who have developed severe headache, abdominal pain, leg pain or shortness of breath within three weeks after vaccination should contact their health care provider, according to the statement."
CDC & FDA recommend pausing the J&J rollout...
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/13/health/johnson-vaccine-pause-cdc-fda/index.html
This is a great article discussing the risk/reward of the J&J shot ...
The bottom line is that the blood clots are extremely rare, and the benefits of the shot greatly outweigh the risks. That being said, if I was a woman of child bearing age, I'd probably choose one of the mRNA vaccines just to be on the safe side.
My kids both got their first Pfizer shot today. Five more weeks and our whole family will be fully protected. It will be nice to return to some semblance of normalcy after being super careful for more than a year.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I actually just spent a week in Florida ... Gotta admit it was fun drinking in bars and silverball museum and feeling all normal and shit.
I love the Silverball Museum. I'm glad they survived the lockdowns and are still in business.
Quoted from Lame33:As a vaccinated person with friends who are also vaccinated but skittish about getting back together, I find this explanation in the NYT of the hesitance some people are feeling around getting back to normal most illuminating.
https://nyti.ms/3grH2kS
Psychologically, it can be hard. I'm getting my second shot on Thursday, and I'm looking forward to hanging out with people again, but I'm sure I will be hesitant at first. We've been hunkered down for so long that it will be difficult to return to what was once normal.
Quoted from mcluvin:So how's Israel doing? Pretty great! That was not the case just a couple months ago.
Israel is kicking ass, and they are the best proof yet that the vaccines are the key to getting this pandemic under control ...
Quoted from DaveH:I'm totally fine with people faking the cards. If someone is so desperate that they want to fake being vaccinated to be among people without masks during a pandemic, go ahead. The only people they could actually hurt are themselves, other liars at the event, their state, their country, the world, and mankind in general. Have at it.
The problem is that the risk isn't completely zero, even among the vaccinated, and vaccine-resistant mutations continue to develop and spread among the population.
Quoted from Oaken:Indeed. Couldn’t ask for better timing than this formal grand jury indictment today:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdfl/pr/florida-family-indicted-selling-toxic-bleach-fake-miracle-cure-covid-19-and-other
Also Florida, because of course.
Wow! People like that should be locked up for the rest of their lives!
Quoted from Oaken:Florida being Florida
Miami private school Centner Academy won’t employ vaccinated teachers, staff
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/education/article250961279.html
Your link was behind a paywall for me, but here's a link to another article about it ...
This is perhaps one of the most moronic things I have ever read. I swear, sometimes I am truly embarrassed to be an American.
Quoted from cottonm4:I think the Miami Herald is part of the McClatchy news group. It has the same format as The Wichita Eagle and the Kansas City newspaper. They are all connected. McClatchy lets you read about 4 articles until it shuts you down and looks for you to subscribe. If you go into your browser and delete your cookies, you can go back and read 4 more articles. Wash, rinse, and repeat.
I just checked, and you don't even have to delete your cookies. Just pull it up in an incognito tab and you are good to go.
Quoted from hAbO:Not as impressive as the festivals in India but equally as stoooopid. This was over the weekend in Jacksonville, FL. 15,000 people gathered for a UFC event.
https://www.cbssports.com/mma/news/look-fans-flock-to-ufc-261-for-first-full-capacity-ufc-event-in-more-than-a-year/
[quoted image]
I don't see a lot of masks in the crowd. I wonder what percentage of those fans are vaccinated. If I was unvaccinated, the last place in the world I would want to be unmasked would be in a packed indoor stadium.
Quoted from pinlink:I have horrible anxiety. And I know that after the shot, I will be incredibly anxious to see what side effects I have and how severe. This will certainly cause me to have panic attacks. That alone makes me wonder if it's worth it.
Quoted from pinlink:I have also read that after the first Pfizer vaccine that you are around 80% vaccinated. That sounds pretty good to me.
You've sort of answered your own question. As someone with extreme anxiety, I think it will start to weigh on you heavily if you are only partially protected. If you get the second shot and boost that immunity up to the full 95%, I'm guessing you will find it much less stressful as you re-enter society.
Quoted from Pinball_Postal:I don’t understand what one would have to gain by skipping the second shot. After all, the shots are free. Taking a chance could result in dying. There are still a lot of variants .
Here's a great article that explains why so many people are skipping the second shot, and why they shouldn't ...
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/02/us/covid-vaccine-second-shot-missed/index.html
Quoted from Dent00:I read a news story today where they mention that there are offers available to get your vaccination card laminated for free. The CDC recommends that you don't do that because they say that the heat process will make the card unreadable and you won't be able to post any booster shots that you get later on the card. The CDC apparently recommends that you take a photo of the card to preserve it. First time I have heard anything about booster shots.
https://www.foxnews.com/health/dont-laminate-covid-19-vaccination-card-experts-warn
I made a photo copy of my vaccination card and laminated the copy. This way I can keep the original safe, yet still carry around a laminated copy with me in case I need it.
"The entirely baseless idea is a key cog in a larger conspiracy that COVID-19 was a ploy to depopulate the world, and the vaccine is what will cull the masses."
Sounds like something right out of the plot of Utopia.
Quoted from mcluvin:Or how about a lottery for the vaccinated?
https://www.wlwt.com/article/5-vaccinated-ohioans-will-be-chosen-at-random-to-win-1-million/36412658
That's actually a pretty clever idea!
Quoted from cottonm4:It is clever. But sad that people have to bribed.
I agree that it's sad, but if that's what it takes, then desperate times call for desperate measures. They are using money that was already earmarked for COVID relief, so this seems like a perfectly reasonable way to spend it.
Quoted from balt:I played location pinball in Chicago today for the first time since March 10, 2020.
Where is that?
Quoted from Trogdor:Not taking an experimental vaccine doesn’t make anybody selfish.
True, but choosing not to take any of the approved COVID vaccines does.
Quoted from rwmech5:What happened to my body, my choice?
It is your choice. I just don't happen to agree with that choice.
Quoted from rwmech5:If you are vaccinated and they do what they're supposed to, why are you concerned what others do?
I'm concerned because it effects other people. If the only downside to a person not getting the vaccine was that it would increase their chances of getting sick or dying from COVID, then I wouldn't care. Unfortunately, we don't live in a vacuum. We live in a society, and getting vaccinated serves the greater good.
Quoted from rwmech5:So should the shot be mandatory if people want it or not in your opinion?
I absolutely think it should be mandatory unless there is a legitimate medical reason for not taking it. Unfortunately, that's not how things work in this country.
Quoted from Utesichiban:I've given China the benefit of the doubt about their narrative that it came from a bat via a wild animal market like SARS to this point. However, there have always been legitimate questions around the exact origin of Covid given the fact the virology lab is in Wuhan.
I've felt for a long time that it is highly likely that the virus came from a lab and not from an animal. I don't think it was developed as a bio weapon, though. I just think it accidentally escaped from a lab where it was being studied/manipulated. I've listened to some very smart people talk about this subject, and there is plenty of evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is a supercharged virus which is much more aggressive and virulent than you would normally see in a strain that just randomly hopped from one species to another.
Quoted from fosaisu:That said, if there's actual evidence to back up a manmade origin for Covid that will be a huge story, and China will have some serious explaining to do.
If it does indeed turn out that it came from a lab, I don't think anyone will blame China for working with the virus. As hAbO already pointed out, there are labs all over the world that do similar research. If, however, China knew exactly what it was from the beginning and didn't share that information with the rest of the world, that would be indefensible.
I thought this was a very well written article ...
https://donaldgmcneiljr1954.medium.com/the-end-is-near-no-seriously-142683fb085e
Quoted from DCP:Actually, there are no "approved" COVID vaccines. They are all being used under emergency authorization.
They are absolutely approved for emergency use. Any argument to the contrary is simply semantics. My original reply was in response to the notion that the vaccines are "experimental", which is obviously not the case.
Quoted from Trogdor:Well, don’t put your face masks away if want to avoid colds and flu when windows are closed- for the rest of your life. 3ft, 6ft, 12ft- it doesn’t matter in some closed environments. Probably better long term to put masks away and suffer for a better future immune system.
Hopefully, one positive thing to come out of this will be much stricter indoor air filtration standards. That's the best thing we can do to prepare for the next airborne pandemic.
Quoted from rwmech5:Can the employees sue the employer if it is a requirement to work there and they have an adverse reaction to the vaccine?
That's a good question. I suspect we will be seeing all sorts of vaccine related lawsuits over the next year or so.
Quoted from Pinballs:All that said, this thing isn't over, and it's amazing how many places seem to think it is. The UK delayed full unlocking to 19th July, to allow remaining folks to be vaccinated first. But NY, California etc all opened up now?
It's hardly surprising. There were plenty of folks who wanted everything opened back up here well before we even had the vaccines. I think some of the restrictions were lifted a bit too soon, but unfortunately there's no putting that cork back in the bottle now.
I took my daughter to a large anime convention last weekend. They required masks, and yet I'd say about 20% of the people weren't wearing them. They clearly weren't enforcing the rule, which kind of pissed me off. That being said, we're fully vaccinated, so I felt pretty safe. There were a few instances when we were in one of the smaller rooms at the hotel and it was packed full of people. It defintely made me feel kind of vulnerable, but at that point you just have to have faith that the vaccine will do its job.
Quoted from ForceFlow:A new mask mandate was issued today state-wide for NY to "combat the winter surge" ... Up until this, masks were only required for unvaccinated individuals, but was basically on the honor system in most places.
I've never understood the whole "honor system" thing. It makes no sense. The overlap between people that are not vaccinated and people that would voluntarily wear a mask is practically nonexistent. It should either be that everyone has to wear a mask or no one has to wear a mask.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:COVID will spike again in January. Hopefully not a horrible spike but it certainly will happen.
I really hope I'm wrong, but I have a feeling we are going to see a surge in daily deaths later this month and into January that exceeds anything we've seen so far. Despite the fact that we now have incredibly effective vaccines, there are still a shitload of people in this country that aren't vaccinated. Because of how contagious omicron is, I fear that it's going to plow right through them.
Quoted from gweempose:I really hope I'm wrong, but I have a feeling we are going to see a surge in daily deaths later this month and into January that exceeds anything we've seen so far. Despite the fact that we now have incredibly effective vaccines, there are still a shitload of people in this country that aren't vaccinated. Because of how contagious omicron is, I fear that it's going to plow right through them.
Quoted from BrianJ1337:Unfortunately it doesn’t seem very effective against the spread of omicron or whatever variant is currently making waves.
https://m.jpost.com/health-and-wellness/coronavirus/most-reported-us-omicron-cases-have-hit-the-fully-vaccinated-cdc-688433
https://www.newsweek.com/omicron-variant-found-more-vaccinated-people-us-resistance-concerns-persist-1656114
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/12/fully-vaccinated-omicron-infections/620953/
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/norway-omicron-super-spreader-all-vaccinated-173324816.html
But none of those articles negate my point. Just as with the previous variants, it will overwhelmingly be the unvaccinated people that get really sick and die from omicron, especially when compared to those who have received their boosters. If you look past the headlines and actually read the articles you linked to, they specifically say that most of the people who are vaccinated and have tested positive with omicron have had mild cases.
Quoted from Friengineer:Ask yourself how come the pharma companies won't sign a patent waiver?
You act as if the pharma companies wanting to make money is somehow proof that the vaccines don't work.
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