Because we are a consumer society - not a country of sustainers. Virtually the entire economy is based on the production and consumption of services and goods to sell to someone else. The vast majority of the country must be able to consume or sell to sustain it's status quo... you take away that loop of purpose and money.. and the whole thing implodes.

We are not a society of self-sustaining, or even locally sustaining entities. We rely across the board on items that come from afar.

People's purpose and daily substance relies on this economy of selling and buying.

You are comparing an average over a year to an absolute measurement (not averaged)

Last I checked... we were still a union of states- not one federal unit.

Yes it does... because, like the makeup of the senate... the design is to ensure the simple majority don’t dominate. Yes how each state names it’s electors etc is funky etc... but the idea of a straight popular vote nukes the protections of the smaller states.

Electoral college is not perfect by any means.... but it serves a purpose over popular vote.

Because it is not based geography- the states are separate entities. Maybe in your brain the idea of a state is immaterial and just something transparent- but thats not how our country was setup and very intentionally so. Our country is a collection of separate states - not one big state with just local governors.

Dude.. you're trying to cite findings about AEROSOLIZED work... and the safety concerns mentioned about UVC at DISTANCE... to applying it INTERNALLY where there is no epidermis or even dermis at all to protect cells.

Short wave length UV-C light is mean stuff. This isn't your stranger things blacklights... This is destroy cells stuff.

No odd... an obvious attempt to try to create credibility.... reason enough to not even watch the video

62000 flu deaths over a 6month flu season = 340 a day
The US is going to be topping that number for corona and keep climbing. The virus spread really hasnt hit the full country yet

In addition - you can see how the load impacts the medical system... because its not built to handle this NEW surge in addition to the normal load.

The system is built out to handle the load of the normal flu. We are not built out for this new load... thats why change was necessary to avoid a massive stackup that results in much higher death counts because treatment can’t be reached.

Yet... you only respond to the posts that tear you down... not to the posts that answer the questions you pose....

So one has to wonder if you actually want the answers...

Missing in your whole comparison is the key point... the point that the backdrop is INTENTIONALLY CONTRIVED. It's setup to project some image or thought. That's the point. If you're doing that in your youtube video... it's because you're trying to project something.

TV stations do the same - but for different reasons. If you found a TV station trying to roll images of 'credibility' or 'awards' in their backdrop... you'd probably have similar skepticism on why...

And it's a garbage one at that... when you look at the details

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/orders/2020/EO_20-91.pdf

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/orders/2020/EO_20-83.pdf

Nope - you just suffocate from lack of oxygen.

just give the guy 12hrs... he'll get himself booted from the thread soon enough. There is no point trying to help show those kinds of people the right path... they are on their path because of what they want to believe, not because of what they learned.

da fuq... who pointed the conspiracy forum to this thread...

They probably pinned the leak of his letter on him...

You don't seem to understand our laws. Freedom of Speech is to ensure the government doesn't silence you... nothing to do with individuals banning activity in their own space.

Bars have been known to throw people out for the kind of music they play on the jukebox... they'll have no problem removing people stirring up debates they don't want.

Want to start a ruckus in a bar full of rednecks? Play 4-5 songs of hip hop or rap in a row... or maybe some latin music.

Not everyone 'prunes' their internet jukebox fully...

Remember there are hundreds of cruise ships cycling all the time. The main ships are never idle unless in refurb. The ships that are out there mostly did leave right before the shit hit the fan. Some of these were cruises that were supposed to be 2 weeks... trips all the way down south america etc.

Don’t forget how quickly this situation escalated in the US... days.

That was an old story... basically boilerroom talking points on their sales agents in one call center. It was from the start of the crisis before the shutdowns were starting.

It's like the pandemic... people are slow to catch on.. but once they do, they'll wonder how they didn't act sooner

Flatten the curve... ignore the baiting and stupidity

pinside is there for you with the n95 stupidity mask... available in unlimited supplies... click on an avatar to get yours.

Of course.. when your business is not take away driven... it's not going to magically transition fully to it. Business tanks... margins plunge when you pay delivery services, etc. Many simply can't make it work given the revenue they're getting. When you can't make enough in sales to pay for your costs... you close.

The new SBA loans and grants coming out now help make this choice easier as well.

The 'we'll do take away' was a desperation move by most... trying anything vs total shutdown. But not all can make it work, or get enough volume to make it sustainable.

jesus will you stop with this total horseshit?

The founder of zoom is a Silicon Valley vet who yes, is of Chinese birth. He's been in the industry for over 20 years working in Silicon Valley for webex, cisco, and then left to start zoom.

Your idea of how facial recognition works is neanderthal.

Please go back to whatever conspiracy circus you came from.

That is contingency planning being sensationalized by media.

Its not happening.... (yet)

It's just another example of some taking a slice of truth and misapplying it to push certain platforms.

The truth is, yes, there are disparities in how deaths are counted across the literally thousands of different entities involve. But that doesn't mean they are NEFARIOUS differences... nor does it necessarily mean the deltas are materially significant to the overall numbers. Just because item1 is true, doesn't necessarily mean anything else said in the same claim is.

But just having that sliver of truth is all the pontiffs need to spin FUD about 'is it really that bad?' and rather than actually look into the points raised... people take the FUD and run with it.... because again, it re-enforces what they already want to believe.

Once again, #DetailsMatter

But then he wouldn't be camacho...

That last line is the key point... its on doctors to remain grounded in what they practice. But doctors are humans too...

Of course the reality is there are multiple options in how to treat many things.. and the doctors have a role in what they prescribe. Getting the word out and encouraging use is the job of the reps. It is very much a PUSH market. Pharma spends BILLIONS in the US on advertising every year. Pharma has armies of reps pressing on practices to embrace their products.

I know this topic somehow has struct a nerve with you as if it's a challenge to your objectivity or something... but how can anyone deny the scale and persistence of pharma reps in the field? I mean come on... it's an entire stereotype of it's own for the type of young people they'd hire in.

I think the conflict is over some inference that is some 'universal' thing. Like everything, talking in absolutes is usually a source of conflict

There is a lot of room for 'steering' behaviors - even if not directly involving a 'kickback'. There are always people looking to slip through the cracks...

I don't think the conversation was about doctors being corrupt... but more about doctors being influenced and swooned. Like I said, it's on the professionals to remain professional and objective

You could make the same argument about pinball machines... It's not really fair to compare local prices across international markets when you don't take into account the different constraints and things influencing those prices.

Just like you can't just blanket rag on the store in the mall that charges more than the very same store that charges less out in the boonies. Prices are a reflection of multiple factors - not simply cost of goods.

Yet most charts on the wall... every model... they all are branded to the pharma products

Makes you wonder if someone stopped posting with one account... to start with their other...

Do only your neighbors ever come to your area?

The problem is the scenario where law enforcement is only reactive - or simply not able to respond at all. Desperate people do desperate things... and when there is no fear of law enforcement intervention, the threshold of what people are willing to do increases.

Simple example... rioting... or looting. Those things happen because of the intersection of falling consequences and desperation/opportunity

tax refunds wouldn't have been exempt before. So I think this is more theoretical than practice. They would have had that problem with their refund in prior years too (assuming they don't owe). Those that are getting paper checks probably would cash and be aware of this anyways.

I think the concern is meritus... I just don't think people are likely getting burned by it.

Here's a simple indicator... if the show is a single person just monologuing about things - it's not going to be a good source of anything except a platform.

The monologue delivery is used because it provides a single stream of uncontested content. The narrative can be laid out and traversed without having to defend or face opposition. The hand picked 'guests' whose role it is to reiterate and support the narrative are just a tool to support the narrative being laid out - they aren't an actual open dialogue of other views.

When they do it on TV/Radio you only have their interpretation of the information they are supposedly citing. You don't see the actual sources - at best only things in snipets. You have no immediate way to check their sources. They use this to their advantage to pass distortion or selective interpretation as credible sources.

And when it's a real slant... there is no obligation to be objective... and they use repetition and filtered perspective to pump ideas. They rely on horrible logic and argument techniques and just beat people into believing it's a rational way to support the conclusions or challenges pushed. The one way broadcast model uses this lack of accuracy checking to their advantage to move right past 'close enough' facts to build larger ideas and conclusions based on that.

It's no coincidence in the format these talking heads use for their show. It's all part of the toolset.

Doesn't matter if it's left leaning or right... It's a downright manipulative, horrible format to get information from.

Yeah Jagger came across as all world.. especially against the rest of the lineup. Vedder sounded great, but on a funky composition.

International collaboration and cowork is common. Don’t take one fact to mean something else.

Maybe funny to you... but this topic actually has been taken very seriously by many.. including threats and movements trying to bar such activities

Couple of Doctors making statements that are stretches and immediately countered by the people they were talking about
https://www.turnto23.com/news/local-news/public-health-responds-to-comments-made-by-accelerated-urgent-care-doctor-about-reopening

This trope is so tired...

1) The hospitals adapted a ton of capacity to be stay ahead of the demand. The 'demand didn't materialize because the hospitals aren't overflowing' spin ignores the fact CHANGES WERE MADE to stay ahead of demand.. and in the hard hit areas it still was only barely enough.
2) The 'only NYC' point is outright false. The 'slice of truth' is yes, not all spots are hit as hard as the areas like NYC.. and the vast majority (by numbers) are not overwhelmed because the vast majority of the country doesn't have the same scale of outbreak. But where they do.. like Detroit and others... they too were overwhelmed
3) The oft cited "then why are they laying people off" is simple misuse of information. Medical Systems do a wide range of things. Simply because one category is busy, does not mean all categories are busy. The resources used for one type of patient treatment are not universally interchangable with other needs. Your physical therapist isn't going to be a lot of help treating COVID patients. Now apply that idea to EVERYTHING Medical Networks handle... and you can see why shutting down non-essential activities means that yes.. even Hospitals are impacted and need to reduce staffing/services.

No, I just didn't list it explicitly. Simply lumping all that together under the stuff 'that isn't COVID 19 treatment'. The PT example is used to make it obvious... because if you use something like surgeries people get wound up arguing that those doctors should be treating COVID patients. Not really grasping the whole concept of specialties. It's much easier to use an example they can't munge

It's not even worth getting into the financial discussion with them... they think hospitals just shit money. Not being bothered to understand how some areas are very costly, and are offset by other areas that are more profitable. And this whole elective-shutdown has nuked the more profitable portion while the 'very costly' portion runs wild.

But they'd rather just focus on 'see, I saw there was a layoff... so they can't be busy...'

#detailsMatter

Not sure how you got 'not seeing patients, Covid or otherwise' from that. You need to stop thinking of hospitals and medical systems as some singular thing. One side can be very busy, another side is empty. That was the point. Being busy treating Covid is not enough to support the entire business model the medical provider is built upon. That's why you see layoffs and changes.

Just like a restaurant doing carry-out isn't enough to support their previous business model... so people like waitstaff and bussers were being laid off.

For the same reasons they stopped elective procedures in the first place.

High risk population, high contact places, non-essential services, and it was competing with things needed for essential care like PPE supplies.

The topic about rural vs other areas is not really a medical industry topic - but one wound up rather in the larger discussion of "is the shutdown right for all places...". But what is specific to health care is those rural hospitals are far worse equipped to handle these kinds of pandemic patient loads than their larger peers. So they are more vulnerable... but if the patient load doesn't appear because the region isn't impacted... it's preparation for naught. But that's why it's about the larger topic - not health care.

As to your linked article... you should look more at what/where and article comes from.. not just their sales pitch. That's an opinion piece pleading to end shutdowns because it puts people out of work... from someone who... wait for it... is the head of hospital staffing company! The shutdown specifically cripples his business. And he gives no reason to support his argument in that article except for the point of "its putting people out of work" (like the people he makes money putting into roles). It's a completely self-serving piece without any supporting points to the argument beyond "shutdown = people out of work".. Yeah Thx Capt Obvious M.D.

Be more skeptical of your sources... look into where their argument comes from and how they support it. And look at who is writing it and their possible motivations.

Everyone wants the shutdown to end... just getting a piece published saying so doesn't mean there is more valid reason to do so (or not!). Gotta look into the arguments about why (or why not!)

There are also people that believe the world is flat... Just because there are some that hold those beliefs it doesn't mean we need to embrace them as representative of rational people in the discussion.

The informed parties all recognize that the vaccine objective is not the only metric to hang everything on because of its uncertainty and at the least, the duration needed.

It is a very real possibility - which is why none of the people really evaluating these things are using that as the criteria for return to 'normal'

We will adapt... change the way things are done... change our expectation of public safety... and more. There are many things we can't control that will kill us - but we find a balance of expectation and actions to be able to function day to day. We may have to deal with more permanent changes in some things.. either expectations or actions. We'll just have to see how things progress.

Do you spend hours next to the same people when shopping?

Why do people have a hard time grasping prolonged exposure to a source increases the likelihood of transmission?

Simply put -- 'not all mask debates are over the same thing'

It's not about 100% effectiveness... it's about reduction of efficiency of transmission...

IMG_7342 (resized).jpg

The problem is volume.

They dont get the same volume as sitting 20-50 tables at a time. Sure each transaction is quicker and in theory cheaper, but...
- they are still paying for all that retail space they Aren't using
- delivery providers charge fees and commissions that destroy margins

The model to jetison the space works... its why prople got into food trucks... but they are not there. Burdened by space they can't use, lower volumes, and higher cost per transaction.

meanwhile at our walmart tuesday... I'd say 95% of people were wearing masks. People just did their business and shopped. Must be 'florida man' syndrome

Cycling this picture around is as stupid as people people taking video stills as examples of what people look like. Trying to have a 'gotcha' moment while ignoring everything around it.

Like sitting next to your wife and friend ... in an otherwise EMPTY ballpark...

You don't social distance within your own cluster genius.

No one is sleeping in separate beds at home because of trying to follow 'social distancing'.

Did you fail reading as a child?

Straight up propaganda

A summit organized not by doctors- but by a right leaning political group. The tea party patriots.

Note the lab coats with logos? A made up organization.

Its a political push to grab doctors who all sign the same song and put them in front of cameras to push their preferred message. They even included the much shammed er doctors from cali.

People will be sharing those stupid videos for weeks

Remember when I said 'people will be sharing those stupid videos for weeks? ... thx for proving the point within hours.

You seriously can't spot the poltiical propoganda going on here?

Look into this 'americas frontline doctors' group - It doesn't exist! It's a name made up to project a sense of authority - and why all the doctors were wearing labcoats with it's logo proudly on it.

It's a name registered just two weeks ago
Domain Name: AMERICASFRONTLINEDOCTORS.COM
Registry Domain ID: 2546369396_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.tucows.com
Registrar URL: http://www.tucows.com
Updated Date: 2020-07-16T01:27:54Z
Creation Date: 2020-07-16T01:27:49Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2021-07-16T01:27:49Z
Registrar: Tucows Domains Inc.

It's a 'summit' under that name organized by the Tea Party Patriots.

The 'leader' is Simone Gold, MD - Look her up... she's been campaigning against the shutdowns and pumping that drug since april.

Breitbart even TOLD you who was behind the event -
"The purpose of the two day summit, organized by the Tea Party Patriots, is to allow “frontline doctors [the ability to] talk directly to the American people.” Topics to be discussed include the reopening of America’s schools, “medical cancel culture,” and the public policy."
https://www.breitbart.com/health/2020/07/27/watch-live-frontline-physicians-aim-to-dispel-massive-covid-19-disinformation-campaign/

When they went live... TWO sites were pumping this... breitbart and teapartypatriots.

This whole thing is political propaganda... and yet even when the information is under your nose people refuse to look at it.

Here's also what 'shes saying'

Listen to how she's going to use the blood of Jesus to defeat demons and witches

This is the 'expert' you are rallying behind... Dr Stella Immanuel - strip mall doctor and 'Firepower Ministries' org. Check out her facebook and youtube for some top notch advise on how to avoid demons

It's already been answered.

And you would notice that masks and isolation are recommended when people have contagious diseases like the flu. It's not done enmass because the problems facing the general public from the two diseases are not the same. And masks are seen as obtrusive, so it's not something you need to push for to deal with the public health issue. It's about "right sizing" your solutions to the problems you are facing.

Yes - There are plenty of platforms out there now preaching that putting your rights above all else is paramount. It's hyperbolic posturing as a way advocate you can't let someone infringe on something, else you'll lose even more.

The 'slippery slope' scenario is not new - but the drive to convince people that it's a threat worth pushing back against is stronger than ever.

It's a byproduct of the polarizing gap forming in our politics. Where people are being drawn to extremes rather than moderation. You see it in entertainment... you see it in social interactions... (karen'ing).. you see it in our politics.

People are motivated by fear and boogeyman. People want 'easy answers'... It's a ripe market for manipulation and conditioning.

The polarizing politics are pushing agendas like 'caring for others is socialism' and other hyperbolic crap. They preach that doing X will lead to Y... and lump things in together. "Fighting big government" is a easy umbrella to lump your efforts under.

we get mandates because 'urges' don't work. Remember when we spent 2 months trying to explain the simplest thing.. like WASHING YOUR HANDS?? and people still don't do it. Everyone thinks 'oh its everyone else... not me...'

1) scale - look at the size of most daycare class sizes compared to schools
2) scale - look at gow many are in school vs daycare
3) movement- most daycare does not rotate or regroup into nee groups every hour or 90mins like most middle school and up do
4) the age grouos in daycare vs school as a whole
5) busing

Just some of the examples of how they differ