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Quoted from wrb1977:What do you mean by “shut down”?
In New Zealand we are shut down for at least 4 weeks. The only things open are supermarkets, gas, and medical. You should not leave your house except for a walk. It could last longer and there will still be restrictions after this ends. Its harsh but no way around it. Modeling shows around 80k deaths (population just under 5 million) if we didn't take such strong measures. Its serious people look after yourself.
Quoted from rotordave:So, following up on my post from the other day ...
We went into “nationwide lockdown” ... like, real lockdown ... last Weds 25th at midnight.
Appears it is working, as the numbers of new cases are trending downward.
Of course, it takes some days for a test to be completed so some of these new cases would have been tested some time ago.
Full details and data are here - very interesting. Pretty much all the cases have come in from overseas. Good reporting.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/science/31-03-2020/coronavirus-charts-and-graphics/
rd[quoted image]
The numbers could be misleading as we haven't been testing enough and who are are testing was limited. If they are still good in a week we should be sweet. It's looking good but we're not there yet.
Quoted from iceman44:You can’t crush it either with panic and chaos
It’s astounding to me all of the people here that have families don’t see what has to happen to get to the other side economically
Starting in July, we will see the biggest recovery in history, not my words, the negative Goldman Sachs crew and others
Have the ability to look past these next 30-60 days. Life will get MUCH better!!
Like it was the last 30-60 days
What good does it do anybody to sink into anxiety and depression over this?
Life will go on soon
If you truly belive the July recovery bit it gives an excellent indiacator of how much value I should personally place on your opinions.
Quoted from PinJim:Right. How will you feel about it if we close the economy for 6 months, society collapses and a gang of thugs show up at your house with AK47s? I guess they beat you at the game of Darwinism?
I think most people would feel pretty bad if that happened. If that is what you really think will happen it must be pretty stressfull for you and I hope you can come to grip with things in a way that helps you get through it.
Quoted from iceman44:You guys can stress out all you want but when it’s over soon we are going back to normal.
OK I get it you are trying to wind people up. I know you can't believe this.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:Unfortunately there won’t be a single peak.
New York should hopefully peak in another two weeks. By then other major cities like Detroit, Miami, Los Angeles, New Orleans and Atlanta will be on the steep portion of their curve. Then they will peak, etc, etc, etc.
I hope to God I’m wrong but this outbreak has doubled about every 4 days pretty consistently. We are at 312,000 cases today. So 624,000 cases on April 8-9 and 1,248,000 cases on April 14th or so.
I started to do the death totals but I’m not going to put that negative energy out there.
Good on you for both your day job and for trying to be a voice of reason here. Unfortunately some people just have a very rigid world view and don't want hear anything that disagrees with it.
You are unfortunately correct but the narrative of it will all be over soon is easier to stomach.
Quoted from Oaken:Interesting article on transmission:
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/03/24/science.abb3221
A lot of transmission by folks who at the time feel fine or just a little under the weather. Also a ton of transmission by undocumented cases. Combo the two and you get the majority of cases being transmitted by untested people who feel basically fine.
Testing testing testing. No control until we have a huge testing program.
Or stay inside for much much longer.
Wow. I started eating low carb a couple years ago and stopped taking a BP med (ace inhibtor) late last year as I didn't need it anymore. Was that ever good timing on my part!
Quoted from peely:Aus is there too Dave, problem is, what next?[quoted image]
It's not going to be over soon thats for sure. NZ's best case scenario is we can completely eliminate it and then rely on strict quarantine for international arrivals and wait for a vaccine next year some time. I'm not sure how doable eliminating it actually is here but if we can pull it off we can more or less go back to normal, except for travel. If we can't eliminate it I guess we will be in for lots of social distancing and working from home whenever possible with stricter measures kicking in when clusters break out.
Quoted from wrb1977:A small island country in the middle of the Pacific Ocean is just a little different than the US.
I agree it's not really fair to compare NZ and the USA. I'm from California living in NZ for 15 years now. I can't emphasise enough what a big difference having only one significant level of government makes. The federal, state, county, city levels in the USA just add a huge amount of complexity we don't have to deal with here.
The whole idea of locking down from the world is much easier to grasp when you are a three hour flight away from any other country. We are all used to living on an island in the middle of the pacific and capitalising on that is an easy enough thing to grab on to. Hence we benefited from pretty much unanimous political and popular support for a lockdown.
It still remains to be seen how it works out for us. May go well and we get rid of it entirely but that means we have to keep the border closed until there is a vaccine or it may not work and we will be in same position as everyone else.
I don't see the point in looking back at things and trying to assign blame. Seems much more productive to focus on what we can or should be doing as there is hell of a lot to do and think about!
People seem to think the leaders/politicians have this great view of things and that isn't often the case. They are getting bombarded with all kinds of information daily some of which will be important much of which will fade to insignificance. Look at headlines in January, Iran was the big story then not Covid.
Quoted from Wickerman2:See what you are saying, which holds true for the public, but leaders get daily briefings and intelligence reports. By all accounts those reports in January warned of a major crisis.
If we don’t look at what’s been weak in our response we don’t have knowledge to improve that response.
Testing testing testing is what the experts say.
I am very aware that leaders get regular briefings, they are point in time and the concerns raised don't always pan out. I completely agree we need to look back at everything and learn but right now the focus should be on the response, learning from the response will come later.
I was reading an interview from a former PM (from the opposition party) about the NZ response and he was talking about how hard it is to shift the public, you can't just say 'we need to do this now' it takes time for the public to become receptive to it and if you move too quickly it can be counterproductive.
All I am saying is that when the narrative becomes this country or person f'd up it just distracts from actually doing something that adds value.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Sobering story from Sports Illustrated.
I too am susceptible to the siren song of the light at the end of the tunnel. We may need to stash such optimism for a while:
https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/04/10/sports-arent-coming-back-soon
I don't think people have really come to grips with the duration of this yet but articles like this will help.
Quoted from Who-Dey:He said we would be back to normal in a month or so and that's what's going to happen looks like. The President is getting ready to open the country back up. He also said that this isnt going to turn out to be as bad as what most people are thinking, well it looks like he is right about that also.
He never said this was nothing, he just said it's not as bad as what alot of people are thinking. I actually agreed with him at first and then I ended up not agreeing with him and I even personally told him that. He told me to just wait and see. Well I've waited and it's starting to look like he was right all along, maybe this wasnt as bad as what all if the experts were predicting it would be.
So everything opens up the virus goes away so we don't have to worry about it spreading when everything opens up. Yep sounds likely. You realise the reason it it is not so bad is because of the extraordinary measures right?
Quoted from o-din:I am now of the opinion pidley viruses don't stand a chance when Mr. Sunshine comes out. It don't even want to come near here now.
Yeah not so sure about that. Singapore, Thailand, Australia. Space helps though and the car culture in California along with all of that sprawl that makes traffic so bad has some benefits.
Quoted from screaminr:I know what you're saying but this is just even with normal stuff .[quoted image]
A lot of that 18 you are paying is tax.
Is there much push back in the USA about supporting large corporates overs smaller businesses? We are opening up a bit more in New Zealand in a few days and the 1/3 fee that Ubereats charges restaurants has resulted in a lot of interest in ways to keep the money with the business instead. There are a couple other things like this brewing too. Just curious.
Quoted from Murphdom:At first people were stockpiling wipes,cleaning supplies, and toilet paper. Apparently French fries are starting to go in short supply as well. As the meat plants shut down pork will likely follow. Any guesses what the next thing will be?
We had flour shortages in NZ. Turned out it wasn't the lack of flour but not enough packaging since demand shot up. They started putting it in basic plastic bags and problem solved!
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Those are good questions. Some distributors have said that sales have been very good during the pandemic with many titles selling out.
I don't believe it. I have had vendors ring me this week to check in. People I haven't heard from in months. They claim to be really busy (as they know I am given where I work). I also know one of them has asked all staff to take a salary reduction. No one wants to buy from a company going under you wait for the fire sale. They are posturing.
Quoted from Tranquilize:Been debating with friends about what's happening, what should happen and what will happen with regard to covid. Here's a summary:
1.
What's happening -Many smaller cities and areas are flattening the curve very well, maybe too well. Numbers are down, and society is at a stand-still, for the most part. Things are happening possibly too slow. Major centres have far higher numbers, and will get through the horror much quicker, likely too quick.
2.
What should happen -This is a tough one. The concensus that I'm hearing is that there is no way society will last like this for a year. There is no guarantee that there will be a vaccine. Two possibilies that might work: (1) Enforce strict adherence to masks, sanitizer etc. everywhere and impose steep fines for those who do not follow. Open up half (less crowded, interactive parts) of society and work diligently to protect the elderly. (2) Enforce all of the first solution except for age groups. Let out those under 25, no restrictions. Then move up to 35 and so on, all the time protecting the elderly. These ideas will only work in smaller communities, but shouldn't we have our hospitals at around 50% with covid if we plan to get through this without a vaccine? We simply cannot bank on a vaccine, unfortunately, and the economy, not just money, but our entire system that pays for our social programs, must start its recover soon.
3.
What will happen -The governments don't seem to have a part B figured out for this pandemic, so the lockdown will remain. More people will join the protests and refuse to self-isolate in less than three months. They will stop following the lockdown and the virus will overload the health system everywhere and we get all the bad results that we've been trying to avoid.
I'm not sure if any of this is correct, just what I'm hearing and thinking. What do you guys think?
There are some big unknowns at this point that make it very difficult to work out part B. The first is what is the real infection rate in outbreak areas like Italy and NYC and we need reliable antibody testing to get that. The second is can you become immune to it. Once we get a handle on those it should make decisions easier, but not easy. The best case is that it has been fairly common and you can develop immunity.
If we can't become immune to it then we are just going to have be as careful as we can and hope we get better treating it but we will have to accept its going to kill a bunch of people anytime it gets out of hand as unpleasant as that is. I don't see a way around it. We can't go into lockdown forever.
Quoted from frisbez:I feel like it's a strangely American thing to be arguing over when and how to re-open. Perhaps our "every man for himself" mentality isn't as effective as we have been led to believe.
Seeing RotorDave's posts about New Zealand or even new stories from Europe seems like the primary concern is with loss of life and the toll on medical systems. What sort of economic assurance do they have that we don't?
I grew up in the US and know American systems very well and I work in Govt in NZ, I think its fair to say I have a good understanding of each country.
Opening up is important in New Zealand too. We can't stay locked down forever and we need to get the economy back as much as possible. Ultimately it's a balancing act. It will be harder to get support for lockdown here the longer it goes on.
Where it gets hard for the US is the general level of polarization (our opposition has nearly always supported the government on Covid) and the complexity added by so many levels of government make it hard to reach a consensus and take action, particularity strong action. What you see happening in NZ, Europe and other countries would be exceptionally difficult to do in the USA because of the polarized nature of things along with structural government differences. The elected government can act very quickly (and nationally) here if they need to in a way that's just not possible in the US.
In NZ we were able to lock down pretty hard and fast and we have Covid under control from a short term standpoint. However, who knows where we will be in a few months in the middle of winter, it could be good or could be ugly here.
The reality is countries will have to open up more to keep economies from completely collapsing. Its just going to be a matter of how safely each country can do it. NZ's best case is we keep the virus under control but we will have to do so with closed borders which will have major short term implications for our economy but it could work out well for us longer term.
If getting rid of it is not an option we get stuck waiting for some sort of solution and I start honestly thinking that Sweden may have the best option amongst a series of bad options.
Quoted from Daditude:[quoted image]
Yep that's about where I'm at. Very much over it.
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:This is a tale of two societies...
those who are employed and working from home with no worries about losing their jobs and health coverage.
Then there are those who are weeks away from losing the roof over their heads, their entire business, and/or their health care coverage.
Those in the first group need to show a little more empathy for the people in the second group.
Absolutely agree and we should all keep this in mind.
Quoted from wrb1977:That is NOT the difference maker or the primary reason why our numbers are higher.
I’ve discussed this before, you cannot compare either of two island countries with the US. If you want to compare numbers with Australia or New Zealand use our state of Hawaii for something at least comparable, but with a lesser but still significant population...
Hawaii has had a total of 17 covid deaths.
New York’s Governor Cuomo announced last week that 66% of the their state’s new coronavirus patients WERE sheltering in place at home. So the majority of New Yorkers that needed hospitalized because of the virus WERE doing what they were being told and still ended up in the hospital!
MANY areas within the continental US are doing as good a job as countries like Australia. These areas in our country that are doing good are more isolated and have lesser population densities than places like New York City.
Yes, many people are not following orders here in the US, but that is far down on the list as to why our numbers are higher than an island country, such as New Zealand, which by nature is self isolated. Other factors such as total population, population density, general living conditions, heavy use of public transportation, race and ethnicity, weather?, etc. have a much bigger impact on why our numbers are higher than your theory. Your rant is trying to place primary blame on the people where the bigger problem is we are a victim of the physical makeup of our very vast and unique country. Just compare the numbers from state to state and it is clear why some areas of our country are doing better than others. Some of our states are bigger in size than many smaller countries, but with lower population densities. These are the primary states that are doing VERY well. Make sure when you analyze data you are comparing apples to apples...just my 2 cents.
It's more than just population and density. Both Aussie and NZ have dense cities and lots of public transport. While we are a lot smaller, my city has more bars/restaurants per capita than NYC. Yes we both have lots of open space too.
There are areas in the USA that have gotten things under control (Washington) so it can be done. The big difference is that both Aussie and NZ took consistent national approaches from the beginning and we both have international travel restrictions in place to stop importing new cases.
In the USA things are all over the place so if one place gets it under control in only takes one person visiting to mess things up. Inconsistent approaches will result in inconsistent results. It's too late now I think and it's going to be a long hard slog, its not going to go back to normal when things open back up or any time soon.
The comment on most people getting it at home in NYC just means people get it from family members. Seems pretty obvious to me. That is why we did a long lockdown here to let it burn it self out in households as its hard to stop a highly contagious virus from spreading if you live in the same residence as someone else.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Gotta love all of the U.S. bashing by some people on here from other countries. Your obvious hate for the USA is sickening.
It has nothing to do with hating the USA. It has everything to do with seeing things from a different perspective.
Quoted from swampfire:I just found out that my contract with Comcast won’t be renewed after it ends in June. I’ve been there for 3 years, working for a little IOT startup that was mostly spared the first round of layoffs. My boss is not happy. I’m more depressed about never getting together with my team again, than I am about the loss of the job. And I’m really going to miss Philadelphia, my second home since 2017.
It’s relevant here, because this lay-off was 100% due to the virus. Ah well, I guess trees gotta lose a few limbs in a storm.
Sorry to hear that. I hope things work out OK for you.
I feel for those that are out of work because of this. I also totally understand the desire to open back up since the impact of no income is going to have a definite impact while opening up means you may or may not get the virus and it could be mild even if you do.
Opening back up will still mean some big economic impacts as its not like people will act the same.
In New Zealand things are pretty under control, only 28 active (known) cases in the country right now. Just about everything is open now. However, lots of people are still pretty careful going out and when you do go out things are subdued. I have been out a fair bit as I see it as very low risk (no new cases near me in over a month and all local cases have been recovered for weeks) Shops, cafes, bars, etc are all very quiet and have reduced seating, they are going to need to be able to weather the impact of the lockdown and a very slow recovery to survive. A lot will not. People are being careful on spending too.
It would be a lot harder here if we have to start worrying about it spreading again, particularly as we go into winter. There is no way that things are going back to 'normal' anytime soon.
Quoted from Aurich:There's a phenomenon called the preparedness paradox. When you plan for something, and your plan works, people then tend to say the thing you were planning for wasn't a big deal.
Probably the most famous modern example is the Y2K bug. 2000 rolled around and nothing bad happened, so people said oh, it was just dumb media hype, and ignored the ridiculous amount of work programmers put in to make sure things didn't break. Nothing happened because people prepared.
The lockdowns aren't a magic bullet, and frankly most countries didn't prepare that well. But they stopped the worst case scenario. And now people want to get back to normal, because they're tired and stressed by what's going on. I don't blame anyone for being tired and stressed. But nothing has changed. We don't have a vaccine or a cure. The outcomes haven't been as scary as they could have been because we acted, not because the predictions were wrong. Those chart curves are ready to come roaring back if we let down our guard.
There is no pretending this is hype and nonsense. The virus doesn't care who you voted for, or which TV network you watch. Maybe you won't get sick, or maybe you will and it will be easy to get over it. I hope the best for everyone.
But the numbers don't lie. Virus theory isn't a fairy tale. Exponential spread happens in rural areas just like it does in big cities, it just might take a little longer to get going. The economy will get fucked by people dying and getting sick too, there's no avoiding it. If we want to bounce back faster then we gotta take the painful steps now, or it will just be worse in the long run. That's the lesson we learned from 1918.
I work in the media. Our science and health writers are all PhDs, they're taking this very seriously, and I promise you, they'd much rather be writing about anything else right now. People in our company have been laid off, our competitors are laying people off. Even the most basic common sense would tell you nobody is profiting from covering the facts.
I'm just putting people who are screaming about conspiracies on ignore. I don't need the headache, and I don't suggest arguing with them is worth the time. But I don't care who you vote for or what your politics are, I don't want you or your loved ones to be sick or die. Be mad, but be safe. Wear your damn mask to protect others from yourself, like they do to protect you, wash your hands, and have some common sense. This isn't the time to decide you're right and the rest of the entire world is wrong.
Good post. I see some of these things and it just makes me sad. I remember in April Iceman was convinced the economy was going to come roaring back in June. I thought he was trolling but I think he really believed it.
I work in government and I have a PhD too. We are taking it VERY seriously. The facts are all out there no one is hiding anything.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:So if you can’t prove it, probably best to not say “It is a proven fact that hospitals are lying about Covid 19 deaths to get extra money.”
It seems like your MO is to throw an outrageous statement out there to stir the pot and then back off to a more reasonable position when called out on it. Maybe better to start off from the reasonable position and save us all some keystrokes?
He is trolling it's what he does.
Quoted from Gott1978:I see that pinsiders down vote the American Medical Association. I'm done with this forum -- all the best to those of you who stay.
Its an old article and the date on the article (4 March 2020) is older than what you stated it was (21 April 2020). Your post was misleading, the only question is was that due to a mistake or was it intentional. I assumed the later, I applogise if I got that wrong.
Gloves. I don't get them but they seem to be common in the US? Just seems like a hassle to me to take gloves on/off. Are people wearing them as a reminder?
Why not just use hand sanitiser? Every business here has it when you walk in, people have it in their cars and my office has got it all over the place (though not many people are around to use it).
In New Zealand we are down to 1 known/active case in the whole country. Everyone else is recovered and anyone entering the country goes through a two week quarantine. Good place to be as we enter winter!
Quoted from razorsedge:We had an overseas woman come to Australia on "compassionate grounds" to visit terminally ill relative. Flight via melbourne. Tested neg on arival to melbourne, 2 weeks quarantine.... flew to Adelaide then tested positive at Adelaide airport....
There seems to be a fair time period when you can still test positive after having it but it doesn't mean you can still transmit it to others.
It is for sure not over here don't get me wrong but right now I think its safe to say the risk is very low so I'm going to enjoy it!
Quoted from Tiltboss:are they allowing foreign citizens to come in if they agree to quarantine? I've been 3 times my father in law is kiwi...North island waimarama..fell I'm love. I wish I could live there...it's the best from the air to the dairy to the meat to the people ..hardly any cops anywhere lol .I love it. we wanna go agsin bit would we be in quarantine in our house or some facility? thnx I want meat pies with watties!!!!!
PS where are the spots to play pinball anywhere near hawkes bay or Napier?? cheerz
Right now travel in is very limited, citizens and permanent residents only in hotels as we have lots of space there at the moment. There have been a very small number of exceptions made but those look likely to expand for business reasons. Looks like we may start doing a lot more movies/series filming here since we have the facilities and hopefully no covid. Also talk about letting in foreign students again all with quarantine first. The idea is to start letting in high value visitors.
Not a lot of public venues in hawkes bay but there are a couple but there is a local league active there.
I moved here from the USA about 15 years ago. I don't regret it!
Quoted from screaminr:It's interesting how things work .
My state Victoria has over 6 million people .
New Zealand has under 5 million people .
Victoria has had 19 deaths .
New Zealand has had 22 deaths .
Majority of business here have been operating and our borders are open to the other states .
New Zealand had a full-on lockdown for 4 weeks not even bottle shops or McDonald's were open .
We have around 1600 cases .
New Zealand has 1 known case .
It looks like short term pain for long-term gain is the way to go .
We just crossed over to 5 million people officially! We have had very few cases for a while now, below. The recent ones that show up below were basically old cases that got added to the count not active cases.
You guys are doing well in Aussie it will just take a bit longer to crush it out without mega lockdown which had its pros and cons.
It's still not over though as it will be easy enough to get a case in from a pilot or whoever and there we go again. But for now things are getting pretty normal so best to just enjoy it!
daily-cases-29may20 (1) (resized).pngQuoted from cottonm4:Who-Dey,
Did you even read the article ?
I have to agree with him that they are nasty. Surprised they brought them back from extinction.
Quoted from dirkdiggler:It's been a while but never had homebrew that tasted good. Maybe it's different now?
I wish i liked wine. My dad has been making it for 30 years. Great bang for the buck. $40 box makes like 25 one litre bottles. Could get drunk for a month for $40. Lol.
A couple friends of mine have made very good (craft beer quality) home brew. They were aiming for quality and got it so it can be done. Neither do it anymore though, I think it was just too much of a hassle getting it all right with ingredients, cleaning and temperature particularly with so many good beers to try.
Update from New Zealand. No known cases in the country (all recovered) and all restrictions (except for closed borders) have been lifted!
Quoted from RTR:A really good friend of mine told me on the phone this is no worse than flu. We graduated from PT school together. He is still in the PT field, I've been out for 20 years. He is required to wear mask, face shield, and gown to see his rehab PT outpatients. Has been exposed to Covid positive patients 4x. Been tested after each exposure as they contact trace everyone, negative each time - thank goodness for his PPE.
I asked him why his employer goes to such expense if this is no big deal. Asked if he believed the 4 month Covid mortality number of 110k dead, which is worse than any full year flu number in the last 10 years, was in error. If he had read about young people that had strokes and other cardiovascular issues from Covid.
He did not dispute the figures or information, but went to an anecdotal defense of his belief. Says he knew a 93 yo and a 90 yo that both got over it and doesn't know anyone personally that has died. Says he thinks he might have had it already (no antibody test) and it wasn't a big deal. sigh.
The virus is scary enough and when you start thinking economy and global instability it all just gets worse so people will grab onto whatever they can to help provide a bit of comfort or reassurance that it will be OK.
Quoted from Oaken:It is my understanding that even if we had the best most beautiful vaccine the likes of which you have never seen and we had it Today, we still wouldn’t be able to manufacture and distribute a significant amount by the end of the year.
That’s the other half of the problem that concerns me.
Yes this is what I have heard. In NZ we are hearing that we may not get a vaccine here for 2-3 years becasue of production and that we will probably be low priority if we still have it contained meaning our border may not open till 2022 to a significant degree.
Quoted from Who-Dey:You have a handful of people in this thread that are nothing but doom and gloom. I'm suspect that they will still be here fear mongering long after the coronavirus is a thing of the past.
Yep it's all fake news. Nothing to worry about. The economy is awesome, it's just the flu, it's fading away etc etc etc.....
Sigh
Quoted from PantherCityPins:You posted this before and I showed you with data and facts that this is FALSE. As this is now the second time in a week you've posted this I have to assume you are deliberately trying to spread false information.
He is trolling its what he does.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:If people would be reasonable and responsible and do what they are instructed to do we likely would have been able to slowly open Texas without a spike in cases. Unfortunately people are idiots.
So, would you rather do the right thing for a few months and get to a point where the economy can remain open or rush through things and end up back where we were in March?
Agree 100%. Look around the world countries that have taken it seriously are getting back to normal and, more importantly, appear much better placed to stay in a more normal state while we figure out treatments or vaccines. Spain and Italy were a mess, they are far from that now.
I just don't get the short sighted view some people take, this is not a short game despite wishful thinking. The virus isn't just going to go away. What's going to happen when northern winter comes? Colds, flu, coivd, its going to be a mess.
Quoted from cottonm4:A testimonial. Fair disclosure: It is CNN.
It does not sound like anything I want to be labored with.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/health/richard-quest-covid-wellness-intl/index.html
All lies. A little bleach and some malaria tablets will make him right.
Quoted from Who-Dey:I guess you are missing my point. We haven't had a pandemic in over a hundred years so these are very abnormal times we are living in and people are going to have to adjust, make sacrifices, and just maybe come up with a game plan on their own because it is THEIR KIDS.
These people are on TV pissed off at the governor of Ohio and saying "HE NEEDS TO FIGURE SOMETHING OUT FOR US". Why the fuck does he need to figure out what parents can do with their kids while they go to work??
He closed the schools because it needed to be done to help stop the spread of the virus, it's not his job or problem on who's going to babysit the kids until we get through this mess and people thinks any different then they are a damn idiot. They are YOUR kids and YOU need to make arrangements so you can go to work. There are daycares, relatives, babysitters and all kinds of things that people can do. It may not be easy but if parents put a little effort into finding a solution then I'm sure that they will find a way.
Interesting that you seem to have very low expectations of government even though you pay them a lot of money in taxes.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Are they retired? If so all they have to do is stay away from people and they will have a 0% chance of getting Covid-19. Very simple
Unfortunately its not that simple.
My parents and my wife's parents are both retired and live in California. They all need to go the Dr's, optometrists etc for various appointments no real way around that. They need to eat, my dad had a plumbing problem that needed to be fixed. They are only seeing family outside with social distancing and masks. So, all of that lowers risks but its not zero risk.
My aunt (in California) is currently waiting on the results of a covid test she took yesterday, she has symptoms. She had surgery a few months ago and has had to go in for medical appointments as part of the recovery.
I'm not anti vax but I am certainly not that keen to be an early adopter. This is mostly encouraging though:
Each of these vaccines had side effects in trials such as fatigue, fever, headache, muscle pain, or pain at the injection site. None of these were life-threatening, or bad enough to stop trials or prevent trials moving to the next development phase. They did occur at a higher rate than people may expect.
The severity of the side effects may pale in comparison to the effects of getting Covid-19 and many people will be more than happy to trade off a fever and headache for a day for protection from a virus that has already killed over 600,000 people.
Full article: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/newsroom-co-nz/300064997/coronavirus-be-prepared-for-covid19-vaccine-side-effects
Quoted from no-extra-balls:He doesnt appear to be drinking, his hands are empty and the bottle is in his lap.
Yep this photo is clear evidence that that anti mask it's just the flu f*** wits are right. Forget about using your brain and making an informed and rational choice given the particular circumstances.
Quoted from Luckydogg420:This whole threat has turned into everyone debating the 3 people that deny science who dont want to protect as many as possible.
The same 3 people are posting broken record "facts" that could actually be harmful to everyone else, yet they haven't been removed from this thread.
3 bad apples that are causing all the conflict on this subject show no signs of compassion. But everyone else is wrong.
I'm well past trying to debate with them. I'm always struck by meeting people that are perfectly pleasant and nice, people you could have a beer with them and a perfectly normal conversation and then you realise they are f'ing nuts when it comes to a particular area(s). My mother can be like that. I don't bother debating with her anymore as I know she will not change her mind.
Quoted from Atari_Daze:Aside from the Pinto, when else in recent history non-wartime, was human life an "acceptable loss"? I mean is that not what all the politicians are really saying by forcing school openings etc? They are willing have "acceptable losses" during this time?
I hope we show them all during the next elections, local and national!!
The economy tanking will also result in a loss of life as people lose their livelihoods. Its easy to get stuck focusing too much on the economy or too much on shutting everything down. That is why a response needs to be comprehensive and coordinated to balance these things as much as possible.
Some places have done this better than others.
Quoted from rwmech5:Keeping an eye on New Zealand with "Quarantine Facilities" for new cases and close family members being removed from their residences and locked up. Is this for real with 60 cases?
Yes basically. If you test positive and don't have a good setup at home (must be approved by health officials) to isolate you will need to go to a quarantine facility aka a hotel where care, meals, etc are provided. The concern is that if one person tests positive in a crowded household it will spread to others and prolong the outbreak. Originally they were going to quarantine everyone but they shifted it to only people that don't have a good setup at home. This has proven a bit controversial but I can see why they did it given the current outbreak has hit some low income/high density households.
No cost for any of this to the people involved.
Quoted from noob-a-tron:I wish i could Fast Forward 2 years and see what New Zealand will be like compared to America.
We will still crush them in rugby.
Quoted from Trogdor:I guess New Zealand will be getting their treatments from China and the USSR. He threw the entire US educational system in the counterclockwise flushing toilet- F that guy.. USA! USA!
So your saying we should write off a country becasue of ones person response to something? Hope the rest of the world doesn't feel that way about the USA!
Quoted from PantherCityPins:So it’s November 4th. COVID has disappeared right?
Pretty much has here except for the new arrivals in quarantine hotels.
Quoted from misfitdart:To close down an entire economy the size of the US for a virus that has an over 99% survival rate is pure insanity, I’m sure that the ones in support of this are either well off or more than happy to collect a govt handout while they sit on their ass. A proper response imo is take care of the ones that are most at risk and let the rest of us provide for our families and keep the economy running so there is an actual life worth living when this is over..... bring on the thumbs down but I’m just stating my opinion....
We shut down in NZ and AU. Guess we had a bad response by your logic. At least I am able to do my part now by going to bars, restaurants, concerts and sporting events. I am not supporting the mask manufacturers though.
Quoted from chad:Priest dies after taking doses of moderna vaccine. Death cause unknown but suspect.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/philadelphia-priest-dies-after-participating-moderna-covid-vaccine-trial
Wait you mean people that get a vaccine can have no reaction to the vaccine but still die at some point even if they are elderly? That's crazy I will stick with bleach.
Quoted from Azmodeus:My city has decided to defy the outdoor eating restrictions and allow restaurants to open.
I'm not big on that... I'm staying home till after Christmas for the most part.
The vaccines are coming. I can wait a little longer.
I really wanted to go buy something shiny and new. But, I'm an adult. I can do this, we are in the home stretch!
That is messed up on the restaurants and hits close to home for me. My father and stepmother live in Fullerton and have been barely leaving the house since March. This certainly won't help.
Quoted from cnuts13:how many covid cases would we have in this country if hospitals were not paid for a positive but were fined?
You seem like one of those conspiracy guys. I find them fascinating. I worked with one once, she seemed so normal until she went on a rant about 5g and then the flood gates opened man she was nuts. I check out her facebook feed for the lols know and then, its like something in her brain is just not wired right.
Quoted from Oaken:Here is a data point. My wife got the vaccine at work two weeks ago. At the end of the day, she was almost hit by a car in the parking lot. She has never remotely been close to being hit by a car in a parking lot. Coincidence? I think not.
Careful going public on this, the black helicopters may come and take you away. It happened to her because the mind control agents in the vaccine were taking over her thought processes. Once she gets the second vaccine the full 5g mind control will kick in and she will be fine most of the time as Microsoft and Bill Gates have joined up with Tesla to use their collision avoidance system. Just be careful with her fluoride consumption in her tap water as this can interfere with her mind control system.
I can only tell the truth without fear as I am writing this from my lead lined shack in the middle of nowhere.
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