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I've read the cdc is reccomending that pregnant and nursing mothers get the vaccine. Many years ago common practice was to avoid any medication during pregnancy. I'm not a doctor, but my gut tells me that this doesn't feel right.
My teenage daughter was just vaccinated. She told me she hopes it causes sterilization because she doesn't want children. Thought I would share this to lighten the mood around here.
One of my concerns is the censorship (not here) specific to the discussion of side effects and effectivness of various alternative treatments. Just mentioning certain words will get you banned on other popular platforms. I'm sure some will say that there are limits to the freedom of speech or that private firms can do what they want. I get that, but my experience is that the good guys do not prevent open discussion.
I've heard that 94% of Covid deaths include at least one additional comorbidity and that the overall annual per capita death rate has not changed in an amount that is statistically significant. If this bad information, please point me to the correct data from a reliable souce.
There is a cdc vaccine side effect database showing thousands of deaths after the vaccine. Some are saying that anyone can submit anything in this system and that the deaths do not mean the vaccine was the cause. There are some that believe the vaccine is the cause. When there is no clear proof either way, doesn't it make sense to at least consider both possibilities?
In general, i feel overloaded by conflicting information and by angry people from both sides that each insist they are correct.
Quoted from cottonm4:Where did you hear this at? Got a link?
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm
See topic 4
Quoted from KerryImming:You don't have to take anyone's word for it, this is the disclaimer from the database you are referencing:
"While very important in monitoring vaccine safety, VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness."
What's the alternative? Logically I understand that death after vaccine isn't proof that it was the caused by the vaccine. On the other hand, it doesn't make sense to completely ignore the data just because there are flaws.
Quoted from Oaken:Not ignore, but not take the raw data at face value. It has to be veri first. You and I are not qualified to verify it.
I am not a doctor, but my profession requires analysis of large data sets. The data is never perfect and there are always problems, assumptions and mistakes. Many here do not believe the 12k vaccine related deaths number on the cdc website. Logically I know that everyone dies which means that a percentage will be coincidental and I'd imagine there could be other data issues. I hope the number is 3 and not 12k, but I'm not willing to completely dismiss it. If you believe that number is incorrect or out of context, does your skepticism stop at that specific data point?
Do not sell yourself, or me, short in believing that we are not capable of understand statistics. While we may be less qualified, we should challenge ourselves to understand and question when we see something that we do not understand or that doesn't add up.
So ends my posting in the lounge. I appreciate the mostly good intentions of the responses. I think I'll stick to the EM forum..lol
Per capita, NJ and NY death rates are higher than FL and TX...at least they were as of last week.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/
Quoted from nwpinball:[quoted image]
I keep seeing these graphs thinking they do not include the reason for hospitalization. My understanding is that everyone gets tested.
Quoted from DCFAN:The reason is at the top of the chart. Covid hospitalizations means that covid illness caused them to be hospitalized.
Im reading it as hospitalization with covid, not from covid.
Quoted from DCFAN:The reason is at the top of the chart. Covid hospitalizations means that covid illness caused them to be hospitalized.
What if it means hospitalization with covid and not from covid? If an unvaccinated person ends up in the hospital due to an injury and tests positive for covid, do they appear on the chart? I looked on the website and could not tell.
Quoted from cottonm4:How is that even relevant to the chart you are referencing? The chart DCFAN put up shows Covid-19 hospitalizations in San Diego and says 13 people with Covid are vaccinated and 521 are not vaccinated. How do you get any more out of this chart other than 13 and 521? This chart does not care where or how these people got Covid. 534 people have Covid. Of the 534, only 13 were vaccinated.
Conclusion: The vaccination rate in San Diego is abysmal. And costly. For the government. And therefore, all of our/us tax dollars.
[quoted image]
Quoted from DaveH:So you are worried the numbers are skewed? I realize you are just asking questions (JAQ), and I'm just trying to understand where you are going with them. It sounds to me like you think the numbers are being inflated artificially, and that people in the hospital for Covid might just be there because they injured their toe but got tested. Do I have that right?
If that graph includes people in the covid section who ended up at the hospital for an unrelated reason and just happen to test positive for coivid, then I believe the graph is misleading. If the graph represents hospitalization due specifically to covid, then it should frighten everyone. Without knowing what it represents, I do not feel it's helpful.
Quoted from sevenrites:Back to Covid talk? Sure, I'll bite again.
WXYZ-TV Channel 7 asked their Facebook audience if they lost any unvaccinated loved ones or friends to COVID. Over 35,000 comments now and counting.
https://www.facebook.com/wxyzdetroit/posts/10158207967261135
SPOILER ALERT - they're mostly ALL complaints about death and serious adverse reactions. I have not yet seen even one pro vax comment in there.
But since many people don't want to recognize how serious of an issue the vaccine is, I'll post a few random comments.
"I know someone who had a heart attack after the first dose, & isn't getting the second. I also know someone who died from the vaccine... let's tell THOSE stories!"
"My daughter 33 years old died 10 days after getting the shot
She had a enlarged heart and she had a terminal lung disease pulmonary hypertension ! She shouldn’t of gotten the shot! Pfizer only first shot Bath New York."
"My mother passed away 3 weeks ago from covid… she was fully vaxxed back in January"
"No I lost a vaccinated one and another has GBS from the vaccine"
"My son’s classmate lost her mother from heart complications due to the vaccine."
"After the v were available... someone I care about suffered from severe memory loss AFTER the second shot. A medical doctor could no longer remember where they lived or how to get home. Memory has yet to return. One life destroyed, and that life affected many others. But lives don't matter to you, you just seem eager to celebrate the death of the unv'd."
"A friend of a parent went into cardiac arrest almost immediately after receiving second dose. They were unableto revive her.
I alsoknow of someone who lost a limb due to a blood clot/circulation issue after being fully vaccinated."
"They wanna talk about losing unvaccinated people but don't wanna speak one word about the ones we lost that were vaccinated cause they don't want that truth to come out"
"No stories on that. But a guy I knew got double shot and 2 days later dropped dead of a heart attack. Why don't you report on THAT"
"No but I know a teenager hospitalized myocarditis the day after the second Pfizer shot"
"My fully vaccinated husband and I just recovered from covid and gave it to our unvaccinated children who we were trying to protect by getting the shots in the first place!!! How about covering that story instead of producing more propaganda. So much journalizing!!"
"With all these comments I feel like that number of who has actually been vaccinated is skewed to try and convince those who aren't to pony up and get it... but it's not happening. So threats are next?"
"I have a friend who got the Covid vaxx, and less than 24 hours later her leg swelled so bad that it tore the miniscus on both sides of her knee. She couldn't walk for months."
"I know 5 people who have lost friends or family members after being vaccinated."
"The hospital in my hometown lumps partially vaccinated into unvaccinated thus raising the percentages. Disgusting"
"I lost a daughter in law to blood clots after getting the Moderna shots."
"My vaccinated dad passed away to covid 3 days ago"
"More teen boys go to the hospital with covid vaccine related heart problems than unvaccinated with covid symptoms. 6 times more. Teen boys should not be endangered by vaccine to reduce someone else's risk. It's unethical."
So again, if people want to take the vaccine, they can. But they need to STFU with trying to tell people to take the damn thing.
Quoted from ForceFlow:There is a *huge* difference between correlation and causation.
And do you know which these were? Seems we all have a bit of a bias, but I'd argue that either side could be wrong.
In terms of lockdowns and police enforced mandates, it isn't hard for me to imagine some of the meausres we are seeing in Australia being used with little resistance in some parts of the US.
If you had told me a year ago that a virus with a 99.98% survival rate would result in a France mandating vaccines to buy food and Australia creating internment camps and limiting travel to 5k from their home, I would not have believed it. Our Canadian neighbors are also being abused including arrests for holding religious services. There may be a few who love the heavy handed govenment and see it as protection, but I think it's a red flag.
As for Stern, I'd argue why take something new if there are, or may be, treatments with established track records of safety that seem to work. We seem so stuck on the vaccine that people get angry when a person does something different and lives. I believe Rogan worked with his doctor. Maybe Rogans recovery will trigger interest and resouces going towards alt treaments which seems to be needed as the vaccine becomes less effective.
Quoted from Deaconblooze:You can claim correlation. It gets a bad rap, but It can be a useful analytic when applied appropriately and responsibly. It's a nice tool to bring about some interesting potential causes or relationships between variables. It's also to be taken with a grain of salt, as it does NOT mean causation.
There are plenty of fun examples of spurious correlations. Just riffing, think about the number of xmas trees sold compared to hypothermia cases. Those figures are correlated. Of course, that does not mean that the purchase of a xmas tree is the cause of hypothermia.
To get causation, you would want to run a regression analysis. That takes a robust data set, with all of the potential variables we can gather, and runs a fairly complex mathematical equation to determine each individual variable's effect on Y. For fun we can throw in the number of xmas trees sold compared to cases of hypothermia. We should also throw in things like air temp, etc. When we break down the numbers we're likely to find that the an increase in the number of xmas trees sold does not result in an increase in hypothermia cases, holding all else constant. We are likely to find that for each degree drop in air temp we can expect to see an x increase in the cases of hypothermia, holding all else constant. The way that's phrased is also important.
Anecdotal evidence and making spurious correlations does little more than confuse the general public. The insinuation is that x is the cause of y when such claims are made, with 0 evidence to back up such a claim.
I did not claim cause or correlation. My point was neither are proof, but the popularity of one shows bias.
Quoted from Deaconblooze:Popularity of what shows bias?
Data science methods traditionally consider results with 95%+ confidence levels to be statistically significant. No, most often it's not going to "prove" something with 100% certainty, but it's light-years ahead of someone providing one-off anecdotal correlation on Facebook.
It seems the popular opinion is that the vares database has no use to the point that some wish it were not available. Some believe that of the 15,000+ covid vaccine related deaths in the database, all but 3 are invalid. My bias makes me think 3 is low, but I can't proove it. Why do we not question many of the statistics being thrown around, except this one from the cdc which people believe is 99.9% inaccurate?
Quoted from poppapin:You're vaccinated correct? Well then, live your life and help out your sister in law.
Are you afraid of endangering your sister in law or are you afraid of her endangering you?
An interesting story about the reporting of covid deaths: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/covid-comorbidities-alberta-spitzer-1.6212510
Quoted from swampfire:Sounds like it accelerated his death. But yeah, the best way to know the true cost of COVID in terms of human lives is to look at “excess deaths”, which can take some time to compile stats for.
I don't think it's safe to say it accelerated death, but I can't say that isn't the case either. My opinion is that to call it a covid death is misleading and it seems others agreed to the extent that they will change the way they count.
Quoted from cottonm4:Musician not happy with just selling tickets.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/20/entertainment/travis-tritt-covid-cancellations/index.html
"Travis Tritt is canceling four concerts at venues that have Covid-19 safety protocols."
"Tritt told Billboard he is "not against the vaccine," but he is "against forcing people to take medicine that they may not need and may not want"
" In August, Tritt released a statement saying he believes Covid-19 restrictions are "discriminating" to concertgoers. "
I think one interesting thing about Covid that is the way it has entertainers taking sides. Usually, entertainers, not including comedians, try to stay in the middle so they won't anger half of their audience. Take sides and your entertaining career can take a dump like what happened to The Dixie Chicks with the war in Iraq.
He said that some of his fans bought tickets before the venues required the vax and then showed up and were not let in and not always offered a refund. The venues were not mandated to make the decision and often did it without the artists knowledge. His fans were calling him out on social media about the issue.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Right. So he's cancelling some shit-selling shows he was gonna cancel anyway and calling it a "victory for freedom!" This is right out of the "saving face" handbook.
Funny that he hasn't dropped off as an opener for the Brooks and Dunn tour, which is playing NUMEROUS "vax only" venues in places like NJ and NY. Coincidentally I'm sure, Brooks and Dunn don't have as much trouble selling tickets.
I'm going by what he said and nothing else. Any proof you would like to offer that he was going to cancel anyway? If not, why would you say that?
Quoted from BrianJ1337:I'm just going to demand mental health evaluations if they ask me my "vax" status. It's no one's business but mine.
I will not answer, but will not make a scene about either. Since current data confirms vaxed and unvaxed are both able to trasmit the virus, the answer is not relavant to anyone else. I will not be angered by the question though because not everyone is aware.
Quoted from fosaisu:At the same rate? My understanding is that if you’re vaxxed you’re significantly less likely to contract Covid, and therefore less likely to spread it, than someone that’s unvaxxed. Do you have current data to the contrary?
My understanding is that the vaccine lowers the likelihood of a serious symptoms only and does little to prevent spread. I was not aware of this and saw it discussed in an interview with Bill Gates from about 10 days ago (link below). I know Bill Gates is not a doctor, but I believe he played a role in the creation of the current vaccine and is the type of person who is aware even if he wasn't the creator. I find it interesting that he believes there should have been more of a push for therapeutics.
A quick search reveals some other details about the effectiveness of the vaccine on transmission. Some studies show you are correct, but only temporarily..some showing there is no difference. Choose the one you like.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y
There was a post about vaccine "myths" from a couple days ago and I happen to believe some of them. For example, I am worried about the safety of vaccines to women during pregnancy. Common practice for decades has been to avoid medication during pregnancy, but now it's suddenly ok? It makes no sense to me, but I'm sure many disagree. I've discussed this with a few vaccinated women and most of them say they would have avoided during pregnancy.
So who is right, the people who say avoid medication during pregnancy or the people saying the vaccine is safe for pregnant women? Here is where i get accused of JAQ..
Quoted from ForceFlow:The specific NY mask mandate guidelines: https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/frequently-asked-questions-proof-full-vaccination-or-mask-requirement-businesses-and-venues
Non-compliance will result in $1,000 fines.
I think there will be some pushback on this one.
Quoted from RTR:The vaccine mandate for businesses is back on, good news.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/17/federal-court-reinstates-biden-administrations-business-vaccine-mandate.html
So the lawsuit determined that because the unvaccinated are are at risk of illness, there must be a mandate in place to give them a vaccine they do not want. By this logic they could mandate a stop to any behavior that is potentially unhealthy. I'd expect the legal challenges to continue.
Quoted from Tuukka:Yes, if said unhealthy behavior is contagious and already killed 5 million people.
The problem is that vaccinated people also spread the virus and the primary benefit is self protection.
My comment was based on the story saying that the primary finding was that the risk of not mandating the vaccine was highest to the unvaccinated.
Right now my triple vaxed father is starting to develop blood clots and has been put on medication. Maybe this is coincidental, and maybe it's not. It is making me wonder though since it is a side effect that is being discussed as a possibility.
Quoted from Oaken:vaccine-induced thrombotic thrombocytopenia is not really associated with the mRNA vaccines. Yes in rare circumstances for JnJ and AstraZeneca. Since you say your father is triple vaxxed, I’m assuming he had a mRNA vaccine.
Not your father’s doctor and I have zero clue of his medical history but in general there are a myriad of issues that cause blood clotting issues, especially in the elderly. If you are truly concerned, his primary care doctor is where I would go for specific answers.
He had 3x moderna and now takes eloquist for clots. He did not have a hisory of blood clots and his doctor is unsure what caused it. Im not saying the vaccine caused it either, but I think it should at least be considered.
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Boothwyn, PA