I heard it was due to the large migrant Chinese population working in the textile factories in Lombardy region. Spread to locals that still attend church, cafes... and kaboom

True, but women who have stopped breastfeeding have a hard time restarting or making enough for an older baby. Need formula.

What side are you on?- due to amount of division you are instigating yourself I am a little confused.
I side with USA- China made this hell on earth with their incompetence.

If it drives into voters minds that having supply chains and jobs in foreign countries is idiotic and destroys a middle class we desperately need- he can call it IdiotChineseCommunist virus for all I care.

Interesting- but need study which shows reduced inflammation increases chance of CV survival. Ibuprofen is anti-inflammatory but they thought that increased risk. Now, backtracking from that claim- hard to study. You would need to suppress immune response to decrease inflammation- is that good idea in viral situation?

Is that you Michelle Obama?

Haha, this.
Interesting how people bash others for blindly supporting their elected officials, only to do the same..
They all dropped the ball because very few of them have a medical background.

So at what magic number of deaths per day do we go back to work then? Easter is a dream so scared people have some light. This virus will still be raging and everyone will have to go back to work. Or is it only fair that grocery, factory, amazon warehouse, and healthcare workers risk their families lives?

Right on! If you can’t take it, go talk about pinball. Can you disable the up-down votes in this section? Seems a gang are going around just down voting even relevant posts.

Did u work on this all day? Ok- it is a hard job running a city of 9 million. But it’s easy to run a country of 330m? Your argument, if used on a national level, would validate Trumps handling of situation.. Bravo. NY officials can close airports, highways, schools.. they didn’t because they saw same information fed officials were seeing- many cases already spreading, will not be possible to contain, why seriously damage our economy if it is a bad flu? They all gambled.
Every school district around the country have kids that would starve without school- get over yourself. Does it matter if 1 or 600k? Would they have starved to death? Maybe. Will a New Yorker die because of delay in shutting down? Many. Not sure about rest, but Wisconsin closed schools and Milwaukee public schools are offering free meals for pick up.
With logic like yours, any wonder why there is an electoral college?

Is Cuomo correct? Less then 20% of patients on ventilators survive? Would they have survived without the ventilator? If correct, this is shocking. They stressed importance of ventilators and how blunting the curve will not overtax limited ventilators. Less then 20% seems almost statistically insignificant. If lung cells become infected, they die- cannot oxygenate blood. Why would ventilators help? For all we know, inducing coma could be the intervention needed.

Also, the drug scene has escalated with little coverage. Apparently fentanyl laced meth is killing it- especially if you mix in a little wasp killer spray. Crazy cheap and dehabilitating. Paying people not to work and not leave home may have a larger effect on society then just boredom.

I understand principle of ARDS. Question is at less then 20% survival, why is this 1st or 2nd on list for inadequate resources? How confident are we the ventilator made the difference? With the inherent risks of putting someone on a ventilator, demand on staff, length of time on ventilator - I don’t see this being viable if we get hundreds of thousands of cases. We don’t have infinite resources of ventilators or ventilator trained staff in all corners of USA.
What is survival rate with oxygen and sedation?

Did you see that 105 yr old WWII vet? Survived this, WWII, and Spanish flu. Some f.ing people..

Also interesting read out in Wall Street so I’m sure huge amount of people with all the wisdom here missed it. Basically, theory has it we use viral genes in several of our every day functions- like memory. Possibly a viral attack on a fish may have led to first organism walking on land. Probably will be debunked in few months, but would explain somewhat how fast we evolved from microorganism.

So heart disease, smoking, strokes, and cirrhosis will all disappear because people are staying home? Wouldn’t be surprised if we see a serious uptick.

I’m splitting hairs- ok... The point they were trying to make is that millions of people die every year and we don’t shut down. We profit from killing people with cigarettes and alcohol- but everybody sit in your house for the less then 20% of people that enter the ICU(not total cases) that come off ventilators because we are bastions of compassion all of a sudden? Let’s legalize pot! The people who smoked and are obese are significantly higher percentage in the death totals- have their self inflicted problems spread?
With no definitive plan of how long this lasts for how many truly healthy people are dying, it will be questioned. We wait for peak in NY, then back to business? That is a fairy tale. This is not going anywhere. With airports and highways open, this will spike again and again around the world. Those at risk and unlucky will die with no scaleable solution. This is the way..

Wow.. $1000 for social distance violation? Are they going around with six foot poles or busting private functions? No way this will hold as weather gets nicer. Hard for kids to rationalize someone else’s existence when they are dying of boredom. Many adults also..

Those were the days. We also had more pollution. Then there are the unions. Is it worth a strong middle class to increase prices on most manufactured goods and make it difficult to breath? I would vote yes but I have money to blow on pinball.
I also found out that the garlic powder I’ve been using is from China. How? What? Huh?..Hope it’s garlic..

Virus “reactivating” in South Korea? 91 cases of previously recovered patients again testing positive. Could be bad data but not the news I want to hear.
With all the tests going around, not sure which ones are testing for exactly what. If only looking for a small sequence of viral capsid or mRNA- how are they determining contagiousness?

This is all factual. But it is leaving out what other information was in play in the world. Yes, we knew about it. But China launched martial control and overreaction by US at that point, as seen in such hits as - Bird flu, MERS, swine flu- was unwarranted. By end of January, there were less then 2k confirmed cases worldwide. That was about time some guy came on here, said they quarantined him, and opened a go fund me page- only giving that as a reference. Who thought closing schools and airports was a good idea at that time? With the playoffs, Super-Bowl and March madness around the corner? No way!
We never fully trusted info coming out of China. If anything, this proves danger of dealing with a pseudo communist/dictatorship country. China had only started trade negotiations with US mid January- they couldn’t afford bad press. Gravity of situation only took place when Italy was hit. Most of Europe didn’t do anything until after US. Should we have done more? Yes. Are airports, highways, and borders still open? Yes- we are playing quarantine. By time we closed flights to Europe- we knew enough that people could be asymptomatic carriers. Yet, we let those people walk off the planes and go home? We checked temperatures.. All persons responsible for that call- even if Trump- need to be fired.
Should we have kept CDC pandemic task force funded when news in China developed? Yes. That is biggest concern for me- who is in charge of CDC funding and what was their motivation? Perfectly good German test being used, we make our own?

Isn’t that the point- government intervention could decrease deaths by those diseases. Why aren’t there higher taxes on giant bags of puff Cheetos? Because it would limit freedom... If you want to kill yourself by Cheetos or liquor, it is no longer your problem- it stresses a healthcare system paid for by all- well, all those that pay taxes and premiums.

Yeaahhh... so close to Easter? Not a great joke.

True. But if you are epigenetically raised to be homophobic, are we “just” in putting them in the closet? Discuss..
By that, I’m saying LGBTQ people are epigenetically that way- some factor after birth. If you are born into a society that embraces homophobia- epigenetic- how can we now condemn these people? Gay conversion therapy is banned but we can convert homophobic people? Will homophobicphobic become the new word? HPP?

As of now, science has found LGBTQ are not genetic- born that way. It maybe epigenetic, not conclusive which could mean it isn’t genetic at all. My stance- all attractive women should continue making out. If heterosexuals can return to a successful 100% marriage rate, they should get their word back. Fine, fine.. 95%.

Strong agree with Al Jazeera but sadly, PBS cannot still be considered due to several recent changes, most notably the hiring of Alcindor. PBS needs to appeal to all spectrums due to fundraising but somethings changed. Maybe they feared the amount of Koch brother donations had compromised their reputation. Or maybe the Koch people are pulling strings left for some reason. If people in charge are left leaning, they assume they are unbiased by only being moderately left leaning.
CNBC news updates seem surprisingly unbiased. My order for nightly news left to center- ABC, PBS, CBS, NBC.

JAMA released study still tracking 12% infection rate in hospital staff- everybody is masked. Granted, some staff not as professional as others- daily exposure to lots of covid. But,.. wow! So, any school district/ college opening is basically accepting this infection rate with increasing rates for decreasing ages? Why would anyone go off to college this fall?

Again, 12% of healthcare professionals with masks everywhere still became positive. Positive doesn’t mean you get sick necessarily, but you can spread it to someone that can die. Imagine infection rate for 6 yr olds or people after having a couple of beers. There is no safe way for schools, restaurants, bars, grocery stores,.. to function without substantial risk. If a person can become infected twice- documented, a vaccine might not work. There is no easy answer.

Whoaa! “In-person”? The doc joined the Dark Side!?!! Is this allowed? Everybody gave this a pass or most pinsiders are banned? So bars, restaurants, arcades should follow?

That must have been some debate. Who won? I get it, kid has a chance at the Ivy Leagues and caution went out the window. People were arguing this back in March and where shunned. Virtual school was/is a joke, they even dumbed down the AP tests. My kid got college credits for filling in his name- can’t wait til they’re managing our social security. We are making a nice surprise for them though, good luck paying off $30trillion!! He missed out on scholarships, prom, graduation.. for everybody to start up school again six months later with 10x the new daily cases then when we shutdown? So, for nothing.. My area is staying virtual- suburbanites can afford tutors I guess.

Then my kid got covid anyway! Parents of the year! The wife let him go to grad parties, I said no -right as usual. What teenager listens to adults anyway?

If we open schools, have to go for herd immunity. Let the kids take their masks off and have activities. They will do it anyway. It sucks for teachers but same for fast food employees, meat processors, farm laborers, at-risk-parents.. Cases will escalate, hundreds of thousands will die but what is alternative? Anybody saying test and trace needs to show math and plan to shutdown all air/highway travel. Vaccines? Good luck waiting for the 2billionth dose available.. Also will need several boosters.

Thanks for the breakdown, I was actually curious in your process. I define the “dark side” as anyone who doesn’t go along with a 2 week martial law shutdown with continual track and trace for any reopening- isn’t that what we did wrong?
Several healthcare professionals I know agree with you, and they offered little analysis. They also don’t understand that if their kid tests positive, their hospital will keep them from practicing for at least a week. Also have to inform all patients you saw since child became ill, not when tested positive. Rescheduling is fun, right?

Black or white, internet fodder? Easy? Fake dichotomy? Ok.. Maybe I seemed a “dark side” hero? Haha. More of a Lando..
Did you equate a hospital setting with a high school? You didn’t use that at the board meeting, right? Our high school is 1200 kids, probably 500 were vaping last year and that was plain illegal. Yeah, they’ll social distance.

Good luck - no seriously- on your assumption you will see the first wave of new infections coming. Real data - after months of grad parties with no cases- one kid ,who didn’t feel great but didn’t get a test, went to three mostly outdoor parties and infected 30 people. One kid- one night. Small suburb of 25k, with less then 300 cases in entire 60k county to date by July. Why didn’t he stay home? teenager, no reason needed. That kid made 30 families quarantine for over a week. But we all accepted the fact this could happen- we are all to blame. I am at risk, my mom is at risk- why did we allow it? Why did we put his stupid parties ahead of our years of life? I guess math.. calculated risk and/or stupidity. That’s probably why they closed down our district.

Reminds me of Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park. Those damn mathematicians messing up good money and good scientific work. Make a perfect environment for all to feel completely safe, until.. human nature.
Small school in nearby district has 3 cases and 85 in quarantine- after two days. They did something wrong? Are people accepting that their kid may get coronavirus or are they expecting complete control?

Did anybody look at the 63 pages? Their “activity” map shows only a high moderate level from southeast Wisconsin- the birthplace of Harley?! Suspect data. They also use an average case expense of $46k! It isn’t $12b in healthcare cost, they are estimating the value of functional loss from another German study using our dept. of trans. data but not respecting our conclusions. But if people aren’t working, we already LOST this money.. And how many of these people are retired anyway? How could we have even $46k in loss if 80% of cases are asymptomatic and maybe 95% return to work after 11 days? Let’s calculate economic damage from 100m people not working for 6 months..

If you look at the Safegraph sample charts on their site, there is a huge increase in foot traffic at Mexican restaurants during the same period. Hmmm Sturgis or too many people getting Margaritas and making bad Corona jokes? Actually, foot traffic at most types of restaurants, shopping, and industry- around the country!-was up during this period. Can you now attribute 20% of 1.9m cases in US- is this entire US or just cherry picked counties that they saw a rise in cases?- to Sturgis? Seems a stretch with everything in US going on at this time.

Sturgis wasn’t a great idea but it is amazing any news outlet picked up this “story”. It also noted that Sturgis did actually stress PPE and social distancing.

No, don’t own a motorcycle.

Interesting how this was mentioned in the study and why we have to suspect the motives of the study. As we have seen in Milwaukee and Kenosha, BLM protests were many hours over many days with people coming from several areas that also involved large amounts of individuals from an ethnicity considered at a higher risk. Why did the study basically write off the protesters but internationally shame a bunch of bikers? It was a sad day for science, like the Al Gore days of climatology.
There was another study done by some conservative think tank saying their data was showing a direct correlation between harsh lockdowns and huge spikes when relaxed. Didn’t get much media- seems like some more cherry picked data.

We can’t even make bikers wear helmets in WI, but they have to wear masks? Crashing at over 60mph, maybe you don’t want any chance of survival. Their safety might not affect my survival, but it does add considerably to our shared healthcare burden. If a helmet infringes on individual liberties, how do you enforce a mask? They don’t have to wear helmets, but I have to endure their obnoxiously tuned exhausts? Where are my freedoms? Anybody follow the twitter storm with that Olympic volleyballer Walsh-Trainer or something? She is surprisingly eloquent, I’ve known a lot of volleyballers. I don’t agree with her, but I imagine she is only saying what possibly millions of others are feeling. This is a long haul..

So if a banana is not a banana? Did you read the study? Again, the STUDY used the BLM protests as an example of an innocuous public meeting. Milwaukee had days of people driving around in cars for protests(nothing says outrage more then driving around, honking your horn) and we are assuming they all quarantine together, right? Didn’t Mayor DeBlasio order tracers not to ask people if they attended a protest? I wonder if they did use these crap analytics for the protests, what numbers would they get? Yes, there were way more then 400k protesters around country. Sturgis was a superb opportunity for study and these jokers botched it and it was picked up all over. Assuming it actually was 400k(SD used traffic data which doesn’t specify if novel rider) and they all behaved exactly the same, is not science. If it was not intended to be accurate, what were their intentions?

As U Madison and U of I Champagne are locking down, which made less sense? Bikers or university administrators? 1000 cases at Madtown in about two weeks. UI was on CNBC a couple weeks ago with an amazing all in-house testing protocol and all was going well until nobody enforced quarantine of positive students! And anybody arguing Sturgis was frivolous and UMadtown are people looking to improve themselves has not gone down Langdon St. I get it- college kids should be at school and this sucks.

Article Tuesday in WSJ states 0.6% death rate for those that get the virus. I wish somebody did an article on how this is computed with 80% asymptomatic.

Hey- did you read the rebuttal? Virologists agreed with her process, not the conclusion. They can’t disprove her either. She actually has some scientific chops. As do countless scientists that proved the use of hydroxy for many illnesses, just not SARS2. But, as she will unfortunately learn, selling or accepting money from conservative sources will get you ostracized from an ever increasing liberal scientific community. We had mass pollution when business dominated science, where will the new age take us?

How would you prove this is man-made? After first infections, many possibly man made components will be replaced by parts from the hosts cells. Translational errors and other mutations make it unbelievably difficult once several waves of infections. Unless a whistleblower escapes from these high security labs with an initial sample, seems impossible. I’m sure us pinsiders can figure it out.

Some source is saying he meant this is day 3, not 72 hrs ago. There is crazy and then there is I really don’t want to get re-elected crazy. Well, Gov. Evers got his wish- no Trump coming to our already crazy land. Almost 3k new cases other day. We beat Poland by 1000. It baffles me how this situation has progressed. We had less then 100 cases- complete shut-down. Now, 3k and “please wear a mask..”?? We knew this in Feb. Packers are playing, kids are in school- why wouldn’t cases explode? At least the Brewers lost early- not like anybody was having parties watching that crap fest..

Compelling argument, and you’re not completely wrong. Yeah, I don’t even want to imagine this USA fighting a war. But you’re not completely correct either and that is why some people in here are discussing this with civility. I hope you continue.

A war analogy is tempting, but this virus would be more akin to a German bomber dropping bombs on 100 houses and the people inside know 99 of them would receive no damage or death. They might turn the lights low for a few weeks, but not for months. One similar analogy to WW2- the majority of Americans said, for years, let the Europeans fight their own war and why the conspiracy theory of Pearl Harbor will never be put to rest. Could we have changed the course of WW2 if we entered in 1939? Possibly, but we weren’t prepared. Our air force used biplanes, we used cavalry.. Imagine Dunkirk with hundreds of thousands of ill equipped Americans. We would have left the war and would all be speaking German.

I wear a mask. But I also understand there is a real threat to a significant amount of the worldwide population who know they can’t weather this economic hardship for over a year. If people think it is unsafe outside to the point that they have to wear a mask, they stay home and the economy will suffer. Wearing a mask in a 50% capacity restaurant or theater will not work in areas that can’t keep windows open- economically or to prevent spread- they take their masks off.. I’m staying home, people 18-40 with no at risk individuals in the house, why should they?
Hospitality, tourism, and travel will crater- what happens to those workers and business owners? And those sectors that live off them? Good luck Boeing shareholders!- and that affects everybody with a pension/ retirement plan.. We are setting ourselves up for some wicked inflation in 10 years, anybody close to or will be retired?
Sacrifice works both ways- good of the many or good of the few? Depends on how close one is to the poverty level..

WI hit a new high yesterday! It is bizarre, but our officials have basically given up. Well, we went from 50% restaurant occupancy to 25%.. Yep, that ought to do it! In April, Governor was on tv everyday talking about nothing- we had less then 500 cases. Now, not a peep. Mandating masks gave people illusion it prevented spread, people still had parties and everything else. Close bars or don’t, they still go drink. Some friends of mine came back to WI and took their parents(over 80) to a bar! Everybody told them NO! They all have Covid now.
Scientists have also released another study on neck gaiters- apparently they do work if more then one layer. Ahh...science..

I guess New Zealand will be getting their treatments from China and the USSR. He threw the entire US educational system in the counterclockwise flushing toilet- F that guy.. USA! USA!

Yes, RH matter. Unfortunately. Read article with possible explanation that added humidity means more particles for small viral particle droplets to hit, become bigger molecules and fall out of air.
Higher humidity in summer, no humidity in cold winters. That is possibly why WI is going crazy. People see the writing on the wall. Any business here with no circulation, heat on, and very low interior RH will be a viral wonderland.
All theory of course, seems like nothing matters except keeping a mask on and not eating or drinking in shared spaces.

Correction- national debt doubled in eight years before Trump. Debt has increased but no where near doubled.
Budget deficit has steadily (scarily) increased- we are printing money like it grew on trees- in the last few years. Turn those greenbacks into pins.

Is it time for the only thing to fear is fear itself?

An interesting article, but if you can’t read the bias- you aren’t critically reading. Pulitzer Prize finalist doesn’t mean unbiased- simply means other biased editors and journalists agreed with you.
How could an article in a newspaper with an unabashedly liberal editorial staff be considered “true” news? If you don’t see bias, it is because you agree with the bias.

An article that does not discuss the debates that raged several times within the scientific community itself during early 2020 laid the foundation of the mistrust between government and scientists at present. Any mention of how China suppressed the scientific community? No, China was a helpless victim that tried to spread the word. Why couldn’t we get PPE? Obviously a FED mistake because all the countries producing masks were using them at an unprecedented scale.
Any idea what the ave. life expectancy of a Nigerian is? Would think that might be a useful fact in an article making a comparison to the US.
Any mention of who loudly protested the cancelling of flights to China or threat of closing borders? Kind of a big tell there.
US made plenty of mistakes, but to assign blame in a disproportionate manner only increases probability of future recurrence. Our two party system failed.

Meanwhile, Ireland goes full lockdown for another 6 weeks because of 1000 new daily cases- total pop is 5m. Is that the way? They haven’t been able to travel greater then 5 Kms for 5 or 6 of last 7 months. But they let tourists in and allowed pubs to function in certain areas. If I had to sit in place for 6 months while jokers in Dublin were going crazy, I’d be losing it.
Czech R has 11k new dailies for 10m!

WI still holding our own with 3800 for 6m..

It seems people are confused about antibodies disappearing from the blood and immunity. That is the normal process the body uses for occasional pathogens. If antibodies are produced at a high enough level, enough memory B and T cells have been created- those are what is required for long term immunity. But, when antibodies are not actively circulating- people might be able to spread the virus. They will respond quickly and not get sick- immune- but might be able to spread. Boosters will probably be to keep everybody circulating because we can’t all vaccinate at once.

Italy found several blood samples with coronavirus from October!! Probably will be corrected, but seems right since we had several crazy pneumonia cases around here late last year.

This is interesting. If you do get the vaccine, and expose yourself to HIV in the next few days- they might never correctly diagnose being HIV positive? And with HIV having a reverse transcriptase- BAM! Pfizer vaccine added to your DNA.. get the tinfoil hats out

Oh, you guys are talking about the shelved Australian effort? Never mind. Still, HIV could put RNAs back in your DNA, but having HIV probably worse.

That Florida basketball player that collapsed on court was previously covid pos? That’s a little scary..

Thanks for fighting the good fight, Odin! I hear ya! Life gives you lemons... Some people will do the right thing, some will do what’s right for them, and some are just plain stupid and open up college campuses! I have empathy for the people genetically superior to me that will never get sick, eat butter everyday, drink 1L of whiskey everyday, and still live to 100! They will have to work until 95 to be able to retire with how much is being spent on this fiasco. Worse yet, they will think they can’t afford a kid while in their 20s or maybe never have kids which weakens entire race. Our race is destined to become large blobs with small brains and dexterous fingers.. Wall-E has us pegged.
Realistically, in our system, somebody has to be the bad guy. Actuaries will tell you, all people are actually not valued equally. My future contribution to the US economy is considerably lower then a 22 year old- how much should they spend, suffer to keep me around? Multiply that by 20m and maybe people will start understanding what GDP and national debt actually mean. We eventually reopen in 2022- even that is iffy- people will party for weeks. Then the money will run out and the taxes will rise. As New York found out, the rich have the means to leave. The 2020s are looking scarily like the 1920s.

Now, if those bombs only killed 2%- how long would they have put up with even rationing? I made this point hundreds of pages ago.
UK and EU did harsh lockdowns and kept telling their citizens “it’s only another 6 weeks.” - for nine months! Not so little a lockdown.
I’ll probably be completely wrong, but I think we will see a sizable decrease when 30% of population even has one dose of vaccine. Wouldn’t it be more efficient to dose more then do a second dose for any?

Anyway, it’s all fun and games with conspiracists, until they get positions of power.. https://www.wisn.com/article/wife-of-accused-vaccine-saboteur-corroborates-conspiracy-theorist-claims-in-divorce-records/35123980
Yeah Wisconsin!! We are either winning Super Bowls or destroying one's hope in mankind. Scary thing is this guy is very educated. Are the powers that be correct or this guy? People say lockdowns are harmless, I’d say this guy locked down for far too long. The divorce probably isn’t helping either.

This is kind of hilarious. You’ve got plenty going on doc, but the guy did read and applied what you wrote. Basically, he’s treating covid like your explanation for cancer. If they have covid and died, lung failure or whatever would be their cause of death.

Whatever- overall mortality is up!- everyone agrees. People developing unhealthy habits and tearing of societal fabric is also approaching a tipping point. Do we really need another false narrative like “100 days” right now? That is part of some “great plan”? How bout “300 or more days”? Isn’t that more realistic and hey wear two masks because we were wrong about one? All these masks are biodegradable and can’t possibly contribute to global warming right? Right?? And if someone can be pressured into not saying their educated opinion in a leadership role of a health institution, no matter what pressure is applied (Fauci- looking at you), they have lost all respectability to remain in said position. And yeah- Minnesota people, great time to travel to Brazil right?
Have another great year in quarantine everybody!

Holy cow doc! How much do I owe you?
So, if faulty valve heart patient gets covid and ten days later dies from stroke, was it the dodgy heart or covid? Would all public health officials rule the same? Seems a grey area- like where malpractice lawyers thrive.

Yeah! let’s be optimistic. No point in going inside restaurants in the summer anyway. But I’m hearing 80%- about 540m Pfizer doses? In 7 months~ 210 days with no breaks? Ahh, not going to compute- I’m staying optimistic!

Did you see that high blood pressure 60-yo guy go full kidney failure and die after his second vaccination? That guy was so happy to get vaccinated. Probably had impaired kidneys causing the hbp but still, what would have triggered that?

While I empathize with your situation, I fear the group think has disabled your ability to empathize. Are you really thinking about the benefit of others or your girlfriend which is basically you? Being high risk and with a science background, I couldn’t recommend to my adult children to run out and get vaccinated. There is an FDA approval process in the US that has been refined over decades- we circumvented it. I got vaccinated, but from the data available- it is a risk. If they research the vaccines and get vaccinated- great, I hope. If they would rather wait and hang outside when they visit- I understand. Will I be dining indoors or hanging in bars before 2022? No.
Isn’t shunning masks or getting vaccinated fighting for freedom? It just isn’t our definition of freedom. “You must wear a mask in public, you cannot go to church, you cannot associate with friends, if you get sick- we need info on all those you came in contact with and where”- is that freedom? It sounds more like 1984. It is a frightful corrosion of what it meant to be American, and I won’t fault those that take objection to it.
I’ve met quite a few Americans and a lot of families whose loved ones died fighting for someone else’s freedom, they didn’t seem very selfish.

Amateur hour in these States? There you go again... Are we giving vaccines away? Are we welcoming other citizens to our country to get free shots? Who paid for all this? Americans.
Not taking an experimental vaccine doesn’t make anybody selfish. It is their choice in the America their tax dollars support. Do we need international flights, tourism, or open borders? Even if an impossible 90% were vaccinated, the wrong variant would still spread like fire and destroy everything- so you suggest lockdown until no cases worldwide? Good thing we didn’t do that with polio.

That your post received no downvotes is worrisome. What is the point of this thread, bash Americans or actually discuss relevant issues of coronavirus? The CDC recommended bleaching everything and wearing masks outside. And they were wrong. Did any of you listen to people who questioned these protocols last year or just mass downvote?

Thanks for sharing. Fascinating how “science” can turn out to be someone’s brief skimming of another individuals unfinished experiment- decades ago. Well, don’t put your face masks away if want to avoid colds and flu when windows are closed- for the rest of your life. 3ft, 6ft, 12ft- it doesn’t matter in some closed environments. Probably better long term to put masks away and suffer for a better future immune system.
It was odd how the WHO kept insisting on bleaching everything and denying it was airborne.

wow… good luck with this. Any talk of calling off the Euros? Some big games coming to London. Hard to believe the Spanish team was only vaccinated last Friday when one tested positive. These guys are paid millions by top clubs, yet couldn’t get vaccinated weeks before big soccer tournament of the summer? Venezuela in the Copa- sure, most of their players have covid. But Spain?
Thousands of fans traveling around Europe with limited vaccinations and variants on the rise- what could go wrong?

Yep, nothing like external pressures.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/uefa-european-championship/story/4412850/euro-2020-uefa-could-strip-wembley-of-hosting-final-semis-over-uk-quarantine-rules-sources

Except for point 3, is there a study that proves your points? Not what I remember of how variants work but I’m sure those upvoting your post understand it much more completely.

There is no 100% effective vaccine. That means the virus can enter cells of a certain amount of VACCINATED individuals and replicate. Any error in replication can theoretically produce a variant. Therefore, technically, any individual can produce a variant. We have yet to determine if infected, vaccinated people actually produce enough to infect another individual, but if it is a strong variant- they will. I don’t know if I would rather encounter a variant from an unvaccinated or vaccinated individual- the vaccinated will probably produce a much more nefarious virus. Would more vaccinated people probably result in less variants? Yes- probably.

Several medical professionals(recent op Ed by UCLA assoc professors) are advising caution in vaccinating groups that are not at risk due to incidence of myocarditis, blood clots, and other reactions. Covid vaccines did not go through regular approval process. Members of these groups which do get covid, will likely recover and have likely greater immunity then vaccinated individuals. Several will not recover and their families will have to live with those choices.
There are “selfish” individuals not vaccinating, there are also highly educated people not vaccinating who simply can’t overlook the risks vs risks- there is no reward necessarily.

I am Pfizer vaccinated and have allergies for first time in my life. Did I get old or vaccinated?

Well, I’d have to agree with Zeng. Common sense dictates that the Chinese have already destroyed or confiscated all relevant info from these labs. By purging their wet markets and wild animal vendors facilities- they have also destroyed any links to it originating from the wild. I’ll give China the benefit of the doubt here, it probably was a natural specimen mishandled in their lab..
The WHO had their chance when this started. Any scientist that didn’t say this originated from the wild was demonized and belittled. That wasn’t science. It didn’t matter, China wasn’t allowing a foreign investigation. They already knew.

Good in theory- just not practical. Unless a government run forced vaccination and martial law lockdown until two weeks after second dose, variants will rise.
Travel made this happen. It wasn’t rocket science. US citizen or not- don’t allow in the country. Don’t allow out of country, or own state. We bribed people to get vaccinated so they could return to life- now apparent they have been spreading delta. 1000x viral particles in delta then alpha for vaccinated people??!! That can’t be correct but that’s from Fauci. And if it is replicating in vaccinated people, it can cause a mutant. Lockdown 2- here we come!

Hey! I got a thumbs down from Habo! Haha! Mission accomplished! I can explain, I can’t make people understand.

It’s too late at this point. Six weeks for those to get vaccinated now? College starts in 3? NFL? The mask is the only proven seatbelt. The vaccine helps you not die. If you take your mask off in an enclosed space, you might get covid or spread it or mutate it- vaccinated or not. The social distancing was debunked by people that checked the misquoted study. Nobody is safe indoors. Doesn’t matter people’s politics at this point, at least 30% of pop is unvaccinated, what does the govt. do? Surprisingly the CDC actually put Biden straight- don’t bribe people to get vaccinated so you can take off the mask- you can’t.
If people are fine doubling cases again like UK, then we blame everybody.

Are you familiar with variants? Here’s a horror show https://www.yahoo.com/news/virus-used-world-longest-covid-154818412.html

One could argue, any positive individual being transported with others in buses could generate variants. If releasing positive “illegals” and not even separating them is true, not good. One could also argue- these are the detained “illegals”. Who did the detained positives travel with the last days before testing? Who knows how many people are sneaking in, what they have, or where they are from.. Biden admin just addressed this issue.

A bigger problem is US citizens can go basically anywhere, but need a test within 72 hours of re-entry( last I looked at info). Any individual , even vaccinated, not quarantining for the 72 hours until departure invalidates the test and can spread variants. They also have to keep the mask on for entire time from entering departure terminal to exit arrival terminal or what is the point?
We trust people to sit in a hotel for 3 days on vacation? It does not compute- unless we have decided to live with covid. Then why bother to test? Are cruises still running?

India and Brazil have wrong decimals.

Odds are, numbers are incorrect. With China and India having populations over entire world of 1918, only 5k and 432k deaths respectively?

Haha! Unfortunate example..
https://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/news/20180925/antibiotics-may-cure-appendicitis-without-surgery

Not saying anybody is right about corona, but a lot of people related to appendectomies made a lot of money over the years.
Want to suffer for days taking antibiotics and maybe die? No thanks.
Want to get cut open, maybe die from the anesthetic, and have a hard time moving for days? Ah.. umm.. what was the other option?
I guess you still have to go to the doctor for the prescription- but who knows maybe large doses of garlic and onion would suffice like Galen of old? Who’ll fund the study? Doesn’t matter, no patient will sign up because all surgeons of the world will pay Facebook to outcast all anti-appendectomists.

Money is powerful, and politics are more powerful. Religion had its day. All we used to have was science. It seems to be the new religion- “we believe in science”. That’s not science. Science always questions. Science gets very little even 99% correct. Something has been universally accepted for decades, some smart ass with a computer approaches it differently and proves it wrong, we learn more.

JNJ is reportedly having good results with Delta. Or not many people got JNJ in high Delta areas… It apparently has clarified earlier studies and may have similar coverage to Pfizer and Moderna overall.

And how many of these squeaking by doctors showed up at the CDC?
But everybody keep worrying about the guy that gave Trekkie 100% chance of survival.

But not sacrificing your freedom to attend an indoor, nonessential, superspreader event?

So you are saying the amount of mutations from Delta to Omicron is in no way related to vaccines that are less then 90% effective? While admitting the world isn’t sure where Omicron actually originated? Huh.. I haven’t heard many scientific organizations making this call. It is scientific fact that viral particles replicate in vaccinated individuals- mutations can happen.