Quoted from wolfemaaan:You’re just making up numbers now. Send the proof. Based on the numbers above, not going to even match the flu deaths
USA gov numbers:
British numbers:
(Topic ID: 264520)
You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider Oaken.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
This topic is closed.
So you complain no one shows you the numbers. I show you the numbers and then you complain the numbers are confusing. 
Summary = it’s bad
If that doesn’t do it for you, look at Italy and keep in mind northern Italy healthcare system is equal or better than USA and comparable to majority of Europe, Canada, etc.
Quoted from Psw757:Of course, they are testing more but only 17 under the age of 50 have died according to what was reported yesterday.
Again, just trying to put some positive perspective on the situation. The non stop doom and gloom is unhealthy in itself.
Part of that reason is doctors there are rationing care based on likely outcomes. So a 19 yr old with no conditions comes in at same time as a 90 yr old diabetic with heart disease. They are gonna give the 90 yr old a paper bag and the 19 yr old the ventilator.
Update from one of the previous threads. Bad news, There are widespread baby formula shortages due to panic buying. Many online inventories/shops may say they have some, but they generally don’t.
Good news pretty much everywhere I have checked (local/national) expects to have plenty come the first week of April.
For some odd reason (pun intended) size 3 diapers are the scarce ones. All other sizes are plentiful. Again, come April the shops I checked expect to be stocked.
Quoted from RWH:I don't think he is as they were reporting about that around here as well, these are temporary do to the panic so the ship will right itself soon and we'll be left with just trying to stay healthy.
Exactly. If you have enough to get through the next few weeks then everything should work out. That or expand your scope Chicago is a bit far to drive for me, but if it was necessary I would make the trip.
Partial screenshot from Target app for my area. It says “limited” stock at local store not available for pickup. I walked the local stores and none on shelves or in back. Same story for Walmart (online/local). Amazon(online). And the local grocery stores. Again EVERYONE says plenty of stock come April. Not trying to fearmonger. This is my reality.
56C47C7D-F9E9-4B0A-92BC-4B2EF4ED440A (resized).jpeg
Quoted from PtownPin:why so many?
Single use. For proper (safe) usage every worker involved will need several a day.
For example, you take a meal break, you should use a new mask when returning to work.
Quoted from Dono:So IMHO, for the "leadership" of California coming out with a statement touting a 70% infection rate potential, well, IMO that's just silly.
I suspect they pulled the numbers from the British (or similar) report I linked to on the first page of this thread. And I quote:
In the (unlikely) absence of any control measures or spontaneous changes in individual behaviour, we would expect a peak in mortality (daily deaths) to occur after approximately 3 months (Figure 1A). In such scenarios, given an estimated R0 of 2.4, we predict 81% of the GB and US populations would be infected over the course of the epidemic.
Folks with far more expertise in epidemiological modeling than you or I compiled that report. Crib notes is if you do nothing deaths in millions for USA and Britain and high infection rate.
If you do everything and supply your heath care system, deaths in thousands.
And everywhere in between depending on what you do as a society.
They didn’t look at antivirals. They didn’t look at economic calamity. The thrust of the argument is if you want to prevent deaths, shut it all down.
Now there is a fair point to be made about the absolute shit show you produce if you shut it all down for 18 months. So governments at local, state, and national equivalents around the globe will need to figure out how to navigate all that.
Wife just got the news early morning that all the satellite clinics in her network are closing and she has been assigned to a main clinic (internal medicine doctors represent!). Every two weeks the network will re-evaluate the situation. Current plan is that by closing the satellites and taking their supplies, they can extend the available PPE for a few weeks.
We haven’t seen a surge in hospital care here yet. Expect that to change soon. Clinics are swamped with scared sick people though.
Bad news is she will be working 12 hr shifts in the respiratory clinic with 3 30 minute breaks. One week on, One week off. The limit in breaks is to preserve the PPE as well as push through patient load. So for a week at a time she will not see her kids for more than an hour a day (in the morning when they wake up).
I know there are folks out there in other fields used to this kind of schedule, but it’s a brave new world for us. Country doctor primary care routine is much more our style.
They have also said they plan on paying “something” come May 1st. An improvement from a few days ago of “nothing”. I suspect that something comes from whatever the fed state and local governments can scrounge up.
Also, as an aside we feel for her nurses and support staff. They are considered non essential and are being put on one or two day a week work to keep them employed but not really pay them.
Also big thank you to the construction crews and personal hoarders donating boxes of masks and gloves to the clinics around the cities. You are helping to minimize one of the bigger anxieties your healthcare workers and their families have.
Quoted from presqueisle:(edited) [quoted image]
Aaaand Lou Dobbs is in quarantine.
Quoted from titanpenguin:My son and I just got home from PE class. Did a playground workout for back and walked to and from. Gotta do something!
Around here they are shutting down the playgrounds. It’s a transmission vector. Sucks too because it just started getting nice outside around here and I have been bribing my 3 yr old with the prospect of the park swing set.
Fivethirtyeight has a fun with numbers article where they asked a bunch of epidemiologists what their predictions are for USA.
These are the kind of back and forth rubbery statements that drive me batty. Either ban all gatherings or no gatherings. Saying gatherings are “mostly” bad is confusing:
Quoted from PantherCityPins:Full suits are expensive and hard to come by. I'm actually a little surprised they were using them in that video. They may have better PPE supplies in that state vs Texas, not sure. Here in Texas we are using a disposable paper gown, gloves, facemask with a shield or eye goggles for swabbing coronavirus patients.
Looking at the video again, I don't see the little respirator motor on a belt with him so maybe he's just in a full suit with no respirator.
Usually PAPR suits are only used for highly contagious things like Ebola. I have heard of docs in Europe using them for intubations of COVID-19 patients due to the high amounts of virus that are aerosolized during the procedure and it puts the doc doing the procedure at risk. Several ICU docs in Europe and Asia have died of COVID-19 after intubating and caring for patients in the ICU. Not many of those suits to go around though.
My wife also is using paper suit, face shield, respirator method here in Minnesota.
It is comically oversized on her.
5F988E69-055B-428A-8DCF-E7A807053730 (resized).jpegQuoted from PantherCityPins:Hey man, if she can get it great. That's just about as safe as you can get.
That pic was from a few weeks ago when life was much simpler.
Now those are a wee bit harder to come by...
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:Well...if that’s the best in the world, then we are all in serious trouble.
Pretty much. This is what several of us have been worried about for weeks.
Quoted from phototamer:I am talking about fatalities.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
If you are obese, heavy smoker , and never moved from your chair , you are in high change of hospitalization if developing symptoms , even if you are less tan 55.
You will almost certainly be ok but you will overload the health system that needs to care for people in their 70s 80s 90s.
And if you have type 1 diabetes, asthma, etc. you are kinda fucked too and that has nothing to do with life style choice. And no, “certainly okay” is not how I would classify it.
Quoted from PinJim:Type 1 diabetes surprises me a bit. I would think type 2 would be an equal or higher risk, since a lot of that group is also obese. My wife is type 1 and honestly, she’ll handle it better than me (or that’s my prediction anyhow). Historically illnesses hit me much harder. But to be fair, I’m 10 years older than her and smoked until 3 weeks ago. The virus scared me into cold turkey.
I’m sure we’ll get it at some point so I’ll post the results. Both of us should survive given our age and overall health (my wife is obsessed with exercise).
Off topic, but my wife can maintain damn near normal blood sugars, even with a non-functional pancreas. We’ve been on a virtually zero carb diet for 6 months. It’s absolutely amazing what it has done for her blood sugars, A1C is 5.5 (non-diabetic range).
Autoimmune disorders are especially susceptible. (EDIT: by susceptible I mean to severe outcomes not to contracting. Contracting is a different set of variables).
Dang, best I do is a1c 6.0. If I try to go lower, I have too many lows. Usually 6.5 is where I can sit with minimal events.
Quoted from jlm33:No - for the reasons stressed in the article.
1) It does take time (you need to send the sample back to the company, as far as I understand)
2) You need to be thorough with the oral swab (to avoid a false negative)
3) More importantly, you create a competition for ressources (polymerase kits) with hospitals, which are now in short supply. My own academic lab received a demand from the local hospital to give them the polymerase they need...I assume it's a PCR-based assay. Basically you try to look for a specific nucleic acid sequence which is specific for the virus and you amplify it by PCR.
PCR (polymerase chain reaction) is relatively easy to set and you can do it properly if you work in a proper lab and avoid contamination by other samples. A PCR machine is now inexpensive, primer sequences are easy to find, and DNA primers are inexpensive and can be ordered from a lot of different companies. Including positive and negative controls would still be necessary but this is not rocket science (I could do it, which tells a lot !). I would assume their results would not be less accurate, as long as their employees are not sloppy.
Around here they ran out of the reagents first and tests second. Bulletins were sent out to the universities and various labs to send in their reagents. Tests still in extreme short supply like pretty much everywhere in the States. Next up on the list of things to run out of...cotton swabs. No joke.
Everyone who can, please consider parting with some of your mask stockpile. If you work construction, see if your bosses are interested in donating their masks. Not doing much with them right now anyway.
Check your local news, nurses association, local hospital webpages to see where they have drop off sites and what the hours are.
Help your local health care workers help you.
Something like:
Quoted from FYMF:This is how I feel but he said they told him it wasnt Covid and it was some other virus.
Negative on both Influenza test.
No Covid test given. Wtf.
At this point I wonder if he should call ahead and bring her in elsewhere?
Florida is the only state to get 100% of their medical request filled by the government. They should be able to test her no?
Shit
If they are adamant on getting tested definitely call ahead first. Don’t just show up.
Honestly though, not a whole hell of a lot they can do for her even if she does test positive unless it gets serious enough for hospitalization. There is nothing to prescribe. The recommendations are the same. Quarantine for at least 2 weeks.
Running around trying to score a test is just going to cause potential spread.
It sucks not knowing, but people need to just stay home until they medically can’t.
Quoted from Wickerman2:Rand Paul, Senate typhoid mary:
During the Senate GOP lunch today, Moran told colleagues that Rand was at the gym this morning, per two sources briefed on the lunch, and that he was swimming in the pool. Rand got his COVID-19 results back this morning.
Honest mistake I am sure. Good thing he’s not like a doctor or anything cause then he would have no excuse....
SantaEatsCheese pulled up Target inventory for our formula for Towson just for fun and said 2 in stock. (I know nothing of Baltimore just pulled that store up at random). That’s 2 more than are available here!
Twin Cities getting shorted by our own home grown company.
Might have to request a favor if things get dire. 
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:So, with all due respect, you do know that breast feeding is natural and free and the BEST lifetime boost to the immune system ever?
And would be fantastic if that was an option. Not every woman has the ability to produce and it really is heartbreaking and demoralizing to watch your kid whither cause your mammory glands don’t work right.
Quoted from RWH:I have to call the hospital today as I'm scheduled for pulmonary test tomorrow but, to be honest I don't want to go in the hospital. I'm in the age bracket that is most at risk, although I question that with all the younger people coming up sick. Seems to me at this point there is no "at most risk" group, this virus is infecting and killing indiscriminately throughout our population.
Damn Who-dey, this will be the first time in 150yrs Cincinnati's Reds opening day parade will not take place. Lotta "first" unfortunately happening all over our nation during this outbreak.
Unless a medical emergency I am sure the hospital will appreciate the cancellation. I’m surprised they haven’t called you to cancel honestly. Everything and I mean everything that can be canceled/delayed/diverted is being done so here and again, nothing has even hit the fan yet. We just see the huge fan and a dump truck backing up.
Speculative article but still an interesting read:
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/03/biography-new-coronavirus/608338/
I shook my head that my neighbors had family over for their weekly Sunday dinner. I was pissed when my kindergartener’s best friend’s mom posted a picture of them at church. I am furious that my cousin’s wife on Sunday posted a picture of herself eating inside a restaurant with a caption of “supporting local business”.
These people don’t get it.
Keeping it perfectly generic for you, when I see a freaking government official of any stripe going out and using facilities whilst waiting for their test results, any and all need to lose their jobs and be publicly ridiculed for being a dumbass.
Apparently we have tests to spare now.
https://mobile.twitter.com/mitchellreports/status/1241866611507826690
Stone cold sober over here. Doing everything I can think to boost immune system.
My liver can’t pull an O-din to kill it off that way. Anything in between is asking for trouble.
Quoted from Vino:So I plan to get more groceries - and let’s get real- no one seems to practice distancing when food is involved.
Should I use the self checkout (touch screen - no sanitizer around) or a clerk (more humans touching the food)
Thinking of wearing gloves, but which option is really “cleaner”?
Feel like I’m on some candid camera show in bizarro world. Need a drink.
Drive up is your friend. You pull in, they come to your window, you open the door, you give them money, they do their thing and best of all no eye contact!
Bad news on the automakers ventilators. Not quite as far along in the process as had been suggested by the powers that be. Not really surprised as I was scratching my head about how the hell they could already be up and running.
Good news is that they do plan to do it. More good news is that while they spool up it gives the government time to maybe organize how the new ventilators will be distributed.
Quoted from flashinstinct:US is going to overtake China for top spot by the end of the week (as of this morning 46,450 cases). Surpassing Italy most likely Thursday. Science insider has a pretty good video about what COVID actually does.
Showed video to my kindergartener this morning and she was like “oooohhh that’s why I can’t go to school”.
Thank you.
You know how a few weeks ago we were mocking the Chinese for using bras and water jugs as PPE? Yeah about that...We honestly aren’t too far away from that ourselves.
Wife and I were researching and making plans to produce our own masks in the event her work runs out. However, The word has gotten out and people are making their own, (presumably to donate) and now the fabric stores are running out of elastic bands and the like. We have enough elastic bands lying around to make a dozen or so and then...
So then we went down the rabbit hole and saw more and more how to’s about how to convert things like bras into masks.
Yikes.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I guarantee Fauci doesn’t make it through the week.
It’s a shame really. It was nice seeing a glimmer of competence up there.
He will be missed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/us/politics/coronavirus-trump-fauci.html
Quoted from Zablon:Is this the 'new almost there' agreement, or the old shot down agreement?
This is the House proposal that the Senate is ignoring for now.
Edit: wickerman2 types faster than me.
Liberty University just welcomed back all its students from spring break(approx 50,000 undergraduates, many live on campus). Gatherings limited to 100 people or less.
This will end well.
Quoted from sunnRAT:Yeah, real easy for Dan Patrick to talk like he's some kind of fucking patriotic martyr when he's safe and sound in his mansion.
DD4A7E5F-A5B5-4554-A1FC-42789E1EC21F (resized).jpegNow here is a fun little bit about priorities. Family friend is also a doctor in a different hospital network. I have mentioned in this and previous threads that my wife’s network has PPE shortages and has had some “creative” solutions.
Our family friend said that in addition to creative solutions, her network is asking her to sign a waiver if she wants to continue to be employed. The waiver is to not sue them if she contracts covid-19 due to them not providing proper PPE.
There is soon to be one less doctor triaging the populace.
Quoted from skink91:It never ceases to amaze me how hypocritical some of you are regarding humor and outrage. You are constantly using the terms ‘snowflake’ and ‘triggered’ but then when it suits you, you go nuclear about something.
I usually find that the things that outrage me most are things upon reflection are the things I don’t like about myself. I highly recommend using that filter on yourself.
@rwh and others angry or offended by @crazylevi joke. Good you should be angry and offended...just not at Levi.
Be angry at the folks in charge and commentators that he is referencing that mean this seriously. For example the Lt. Gov. Texas, the market commenter Rick Santelli, or certain troll pinsiders that like howling at the moon.
I didn’t laugh at @crazylevi joke, but I got it. And I got angry. Screw those guys (Not Levi) and the horse they rode in on.
Quoted from Methos:Here it comes:[quoted image]
Wife works for a private hospital network and I can tell you that this crisis has destroyed their business model. Two weeks ago they were looking at being unable to pay the doctors past April. Now thanks to maxing out the credit lines and assurances from the state, they will be able to pay “something”.
The hospital networks are getting slammed big time. Most private ones are “not for profit” and so have a mission to use a portion of profits to serve unprofitable locations. Satellite clinics are going to be closed permanently unless someone steps in.
So, there are only a few ways to save the networks. Blank checks are one. Perma taking over is another. I hope we choose a third path of temporary support. (Govt takes over and keeps the lights on until the networks get back on their feet).
Honestly any path that keeps clinics open is acceptable to me at this point.
One small study contradicts the other small study on the miracle treatment. This is why it is dangerous to promote a treatment until the science is proven.
Flattening the curve does mean to make it a flatline. We are past the point of containment. We open up the markets once all the hospitals digest the current covid case loads.
Then we will have another rise in cases, which means another lockdown until the hospitals digest the current covid case loads.
Cycle this until we get to vaccine, more effective treatment, or herd immunity.
Quoted from Methos:Where do you see that 'hundreds of thousands of Americans" dying?
Again, it’s based on the modeling. Not looking at where we are, but rather where we are going to be.
If we open up now (or in the next few weeks) the hospitals will be overwhelmed and the mortality rate will spike significantly.
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:Gawd....she is terrible to listen to for any length of time. The patronizing know-it-all, lecturing attitude in that monotone voice. Like fingernails across a chalk board.
Trying to think of the equivalent on the other side...maybe someone like Ben Stein?
Monotone? Check
Know it all? Check
Generally fact based? Check
I do find him entertaining and funny though... 
Quoted from RonSS:I can't keep up with this thread. Has mandatory vaccination been discussed yet?
Step 1) create vaccine
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Glad to year your son is healthy. The testing process does seem odd. If you have symptoms, and go to a drive up testing location you are more often then not (from what I read) told your symptoms don't warrant testing and to go home to self isolate for 14 days. If symptoms get worse you are then told to come back which for some people is too late as they needed hospital care earlier.
Everything involved is so scarce these days that we are left with the following.
From a patient care perspective, testing is not necessary until hospitalization. You think you were exposed? Stay home. Think you are super human healthy? Stay home. Think you definitely have it? Stay home.
Can’t breathe? Call ahead, then head where they tell you to. Maybe you get a test, but the benefits of that test are mostly for the healthcare workers around you so that they can save PPE if possible.
For me and my family we get priority testing, but only because they want to avoid quarantine for my wife if possible.
If I get a positive result, I just get locked in the basement until I recover or am hospitalized.
I’m kinda the opposite of an essential worker. I am just a vector to an essential worker.
This just sounds insane to me. Classify risk county by county and encourage only the high risk counties to stay closed? How is that anything other than a recipe to turn all counties high risk?
Maybe just maybe this makes some semblance of sense if we have a robust and rigorous testing regime, but we don’t so.... 
Quoted from PtownPin:Its good to know u switch it up every now and then.....I won't debate politics as we both know where that will end.....the good news is you'll have another 4 years to complain
I think it is safe to assume that regardless of outcome, I will complain another 4 years. If I play my cards right, I will get to complain for another 30-40 years.
Quoted from JodyG:Paywall
Hill reporting on the report.
Quoted from Zablon:Running for office is nothing more than a popularity contest. Most people don't like the truth, and most people without agendas have no desire to run for office.
Plus the $$$. Takes a lot of $$$ to run, and then afterwards leadership expects you to spend most of your time grubbing for more $$$. It is even more soul crushing than watching those in charge sip wine as Rome burns.
https://ppelink.wordpress.com/
Or search for your local hospital / news station for info about how to donate.
PPE is universally badly needed.
Haha just got an email with this:
“Per the statement issued by Governor Walz, Squeegee Squad is classified as an essential services provider”
Window Cleaners are an essential business. Gotta have that crystal clear view as the world burns.
Quoted from Jaybird815:Trump invokes defense act to have GM start making ventilators
https://apple.news/ANDKwRq3URRW5NmUFanqn7g
Boom
Quoted from Jaybird815:They’ve already started production, but numbers were low and prices were high, He really tore into their CEO
Not true in first part as far as ventilators. They hadn’t lifted more than a pen on production. Also the bulk of the high price was cost of retooling.
So now GM gets to eat the cost? Does the government get to decide the price? That’s where I am fuzzy.
EDIT: also he wants them to reopen a plant that shut awhile ago and recently sold. How’s that going to work?
On the one hand, yay ventilators. On the other hand, daaaaaamn.
Eh, the other hand can worry about that stuff after everyone can breathe.
Another question(s): so far it’s just GM and ventilators. Is he gonna invoke the act on other high shortage items like gloves gowns and masks? How about other manufacturers capable of making ventilators at scale like Ford?
In for a penny, in for a pound. Let’s do this thing.
When we have EMTs using homemade masks and doctors being asked to use single use masks for a week at a time....I’m going with it’s necessary.
Fun with cellphone data:
https://mobile.twitter.com/TectonixGEO/status/1242628347034767361
So many trackers and data analysis websites out there. Did a quick search and didn’t see this one mentioned. USA data:
Quoted from wrb1977:Reposting this as I am curious as to what others think...
I have been wondering this exact thing and in no way do the answers minimize the seriousness of the situation we are in. How long has this virus really been in our country? If it has been here longer would that support the theory that the rapid rise of cases is not thru accelerated spread but thru the accelerated rate of testing and we are just getting “caught up”? The number of known cases, recoveries, hospitalizations, and deaths would all go up if this were the case. And the number of cases will continue to skyrocket until we do get “caught up”. This still doesn’t account for all of those that are asymptomatic. I guess what I’m wondering thru all of this is how these “real” numbers might affect the mortality rate. Would the mortality rate be much lower than what it is currently? Just thinking out loud...any thoughts appreciated as I have struggled with trying to understand this from the beginning...thanks in advance!
Yes we are still getting caught up on testing, but even then we have a pretty good idea of how long it has been here.
With exponential spread, it really only takes an extra few days or weeks to dramatically increase number of cases. For example, it doesn’t need to have been here since November, only beginning of January vs an assumed mid January to have a huge impact.
07944FF3-09EF-48F0-9BB1-546C78DECE5B (resized).jpegQuoted from wrb1977:Do you think this accounts for those that are asymptomatic? I don’t know how you could even begin to gather data and account for those that have no symptoms.
Extensive and rigorous testing. See Singapore or South Korea.
Edit: or a handful of small towns in Italy and elsewhere where near 100% of populace was repeatedly tested.
I get that in an overwhelmed system, tough choices will need to be made about which lives to save and which to not.
I guess what really doesn’t sit well with me is when it’s the state directing these decisions and not the doctors on the ground. In my view, doctors are trained to choose based on likely medical outcome, while the state is incentivized to choose based on societal “value”.
It is the value part that really disturbs me.
The state should be focused on scrounging up every last resource it can to support the doctors.
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:An Argument all week, has been issues of blame on Governors.
It has been their Responsibility, not the Federal Govt.
First, was Production Act, The decision Not to use,but put on Standby, to Motivate,
Now is covered by it being used.
The Need for quarantines, was up to Governors, Not a Federal decision, sometimes arguing it was unconstitutional.
So from the same source, Newscorp, and for Some that IS the Wall Street Journal, New York Post,....
Now shares this headline:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-mulls-imposing-coronavirus-quarantine-on-new-york-new-jersey-connecticut
Please help me, How can he consider doing this with the Powers he has, but spend a week, with
his media arm saying, he cant, he shouldnt, and any failures belong to the state.
Is this under the deceleration of National Emergency?
What does it mean to New Yorkers, and NJ, and CT?
Legally he has very broad authority. Mostly under commerce clause.
Practically....
Quoted from PantherCityPins:I don’t expect that the PPE shortage will last much longer. I also think you underestimate the caliber of people that go into healthcare. Especially in the hospital environment it really becomes a family and you stay in there for those around you.
I really really want you to be right on the PPE.
Agree to a point on second part. I think it is far more likely for healthcare workers to start dropping from sickness and exhaustion than a mass walkout.
Related note:
My Aunt is a hospital admin in another state. She has a suspected case. Pending result. Uncle runs the labs. He is required to still work until he shows symptoms. I am fuzzy on symptoms required for him to stay home. He wants to work and is taking it as “I work until I drop”. That is the attitude of several of his colleagues as well. “I help those in the beds until I am in one of those beds”.
For me, it seems at some point that this well meaning attitude does more harm than good. It also seems like the hospital should try and save the staff from themselves and not encourage this behavior, but I am on the outside looking in on this one.
Here, we aren’t at that point. If I get it, my wife goes into quarantine too. They have said that is subject to change though.
N95 really should be single use. That is not the world we live in now.
Don’t touch the outside of it with dirty hands/gloves.
Definitely don’t touch the inside.
Make sure it fits properly (shave the quarantine beard).
Reuse.
Magic number hospitals seem to be using is 1 week...but I suspect it is due to the scarcity.
At my wife’s clinic they are now down to 1 gown and 1 mask per day. EMT get homemade masks. Soon my wife will be getting plain surgeon masks. Save N95 for hospital intubation.
Quoted from arcademojo:Being in a hospital working with the sick and going to the store are entirely two different things.
well yeah, which is why you really don’t need the N95 to begin with. Surgical mask would suit grocery shopping just fine.
Edit; working at the store is a different beast obviously.
Quoted from Wickerman2:Seems like a lot of people are reaching the “cranky” stage of the pandemic...at least in this thread.
I start at cranky and go from there.
E39110E1-B61F-4765-A160-992B8337FFBC.jpegQuoted from swampfire:Dougherty County. They have 10% of the confirmed cases in GA and probably 0.000001% of the hospital resources. It is serious.
My understanding is they stockpiled 6 months of PPE and burned through it in a week or so.
Anyone know why Connecticut was hit with the threat of a federal quarantine? Doesn’t seem like much is going on there number wise compared to other states that would warrant a fed lockdown.
So if we are fed quarantine states, how are they going to determine who gets closed and who doesn’t? New York is out of control sure, but I suspect they are just 10 days early compared to many many regions. We are past the point of containment.
Mardi Gras was a complete and idiotic fiasco. Louisiana is just now starting to reap what they sow. more cases, more growth than CT.
77F6CC69-FA54-4F89-8652-F4EBE6128B0F.jpegMy main point is more along the lines of stop trying to divide the states up into little nations and instead have a unified national response. Also no criteria has been given for how does a state become a good little boy and get off the shit list. Or a naughty little boy and get on the shit list.
Us vs. Them isn’t gonna solve anything.
Also we are way past regional or state or county quarantine. Maybe a month ago but now? Can’t put the genie back in the bottle.
Those spring breakers and Mardi Gras partiers weren’t just from Florida and Louisiana. Those are national vectors that will lead to national spread.
Sorry for the ranting but I am just extremely frustrated with the lack of consistency STILL going on. There is no national vision, many states still have no state vision, my wife’s hospital network is still sorting out its vision (workflow, etc).
We have had months to brace for impact and we as a whole are still dithering.
What is the point of a national medical stockpile if we don’t release it and release it with a fury when needed? They are still holding back 25-50% of masks and gowns while healthcare workers are wearing trash bags. Literal trash bags. Empty out the god damn reserves.
Very very frustrating.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:With all due respect, you don’t get it.
The article you cite is talking about inactivating viruses in the air. NOT inside the lungs. Bleach also inactivates viruses in the environment but no one is suggesting that you aerosolize bleach and have patients inhale it. You will KILL the patient.
Exactly. If I could give more than 1 thumbs up I would.
I appreciate the intent of the original idea. It’s good to have creative out of the box ideas, but sometimes they turn out to be bad ideas.
Quoted from phil-lee:The article I cite shows a type of UV light that kills the virus without harming skin that is effective in micro doses. I see no reason why this could be used to alleviate clusters in the main airway in a safe manner.
Think outside the box.
Said nothing about drinking bleach, where did that straw man come from?
You said it would cause burns Solved
You said micro doses would not work Solved
Because your skin cells and lung/throat cells are entirely different. One of Your skins’ main purpose in life is radiation protection.
Quoted from Oaken:Because your skin cells and lung/throat cells are entirely different. One of Your skins’ main purpose in life is radiation protection.
Also, just think of all the medicines that are topical use only. Or how many are ingestion only. Lungs are super duper sensitive. You can’t mix and match meds like that.
Quoted from jhanley:Why does a ventilator cost $24000. Is it that complicated to make?
Low volume, high tooling costs, nice profit, low competition, tech support, training are all contributing factors.
Quoted from cait001:When you manufacture things to medical-grade or military-grade standards, costs escalate quickly
If you think those are bad, try building something for NASA. They believe in the true definition of “frozen process”.
Quoted from Who-Dey:I think the real story is that people in this country now hate China's government, not Asian people that are living here in the U.S. or even the people that live in China.
No, the real story is the racism. It is real. It is heightened. It is unpleasant. Wake up.
People aren’t posting letters to Hmong doctors doors complaining about the Chinese government.
Starting tomorrow, my wife is down to “up to” one gown and one mask a day. So, no more lunch. Or coffee. She is gonna be very grumpy.
Not just her site though. Regional article for all you twin cities folks.
When the surge hits, we will see what the PPE situation is. I have already told her that my opinion is that if they run out, or she feels it isn’t safe, then she walks. Dead serious about that.
Aaand in asshole news:
Company is supposedly ImageNet Consulting. 100 million dollar company with 40% profit margin last year.
Quoted from o-din:Just wait until the virus gets on board those ships from a transported non-COVID patient or infected healthcare worker.
Hospital boat cruises are the best cruises
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:We are gonna have a surplus of ventilators in 6-12 months when this blows over...I’m hoping the secondary market prices drop low enough to where I can add a ventilator or two to my disaster preparedness items. Maybe grab one of those portable ones to toss in the bugout bag.
Lord help you if you or someone you know tries to insert one on the fly. 
I mean, did you see the haircut the one dude’s wife gave him in the previous thread? Yikes. 
“ A prominent New York neurosurgeon who developed a procedure for separating twins conjoined at the skull died Monday from complications of COVID-19, the disease associated with coronavirus, officials said.
Dr. James Goodrich was the director of pediatric neurosurgery at Montefiore Mecial Center, in the Bronx, and a professor of clinical neurosurgery at Albert Einstein College of Medicine.
He gained fame in 2016 after leading a team of dozens of doctors in a 27-hour procedure that separated 13-month-old twins, Jadon and Anias McDonald, whose skulls and brains were fused.”
Quoted from chubtoad13:Did anyone else really needed a haircut when this whole thing started and now it’s completely out of hand?
#coronavirusinconveniences
Just beware the spouse haircut. 
Quoted from PantherCityPins:Personal experience:
We are still only testing those who are high risk.
PPE is still in short supply.
Other parts of the country may have different experiences, I can only speak for myself.
MN: Testing is getting better. PPE situation is degrading rapidly.
Quoted from o-din:He is appealing to my never going to see doctors train of thought.
Let's get some more prescriptions for antibiotics to cure all these viruses.
Viruses are not biotics. 
Quoted from PantherCityPins:Prescribing antibiotics for viral illnesses is a problem that doctors are trying to police. It’s really driven, in my opinion, by patients who demand antibiotics despite the doctor telling them it won’t work. I’ve seen it way too many times in my own practice. It’s not an excuse, the doctor should be able to stand up to the patient and say no but in today’s consumer satisfaction driven healthcare market that’s often a tough choice.
My wife’s number one pet peeve. She won’t do it. Patients get pissed and leave negative feedback. Then she gets called in for having sub optimal feedback numbers.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:No we’re humans who can and do make mistakes. I’m not saying it’s right and it is something I think the medical community is really trying to correct but there are still people out there who value their own short term benefit over the long term consequences of their actions.
Pretty much this. When you get bugged three times a day about your TPS reports, some folks just give in and do whatever it takes to make the TPS reports go away.
Not so fun to see though. Reason number 17 why I am not a doctor....evaluating sputum. Number 18 is the poop chart.
(Number 1 is my bedside manner). 
Quoted from PinJim:What are lockdowns doing their than slowing down the spread? I don’t see it stopping the spread, just slowing it down. I think the numbers are being grossly underestimated, just to control the panic. Until there is a vaccine or deterrent...
Slow spread means hospitals not overwhelmed. Which means people get treatment rather than a death tent. Treatment means a lot lower mortality rate.
Quoted from cdnpinbacon:Wife haircut update ..[quoted image]
I recommend just jumping in with a number 5 trimmer all around.
Quoted from o-din:Highlight of the day.
Man derails train to run into the ship Mercy. The charges presented against him I have never heard before.
[quoted image]
D4A980A2-A1D0-4BFA-8E00-613F5257D517 (resized).jpegQuoted from JodyG:Quest has a 160,000 test backlog right now. Given that roughly 20% of the tests have been coming back positive, there is another 32k probable positives we don't even know about yet. And that is just one lab.
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/04/nj-based-lab-company-quest-had-huge-backlog-of-coronavirus-tests-cnn-reports.html
Correction, the article says 35%, so 56k presumed positives. My state next door seems to be around 20%.
My wife’s clinic has the internal ability to do almost a days worth of tests per week.
The outside lab they use just told them they are overwhelmed and to stop sending samples.
It’s like whack-a-mole with these supply chain and throughput issues.
“Kushner encouraged Trump to push back against New York governor Andrew Cuomo after Cuomo gave an emotional press conference during which he said New York was short 30,000 ventilators. In a White House meeting around this time, Kushner told people that Cuomo was being an alarmist. “I have all this data about ICU capacity. I’m doing my own projections, and I’ve gotten a lot smarter about this. New York doesn’t need all the ventilators,” Kushner said, according to a person present. “
We ain’t at peak yet. Just about every hospital network is cancelling electives and trying to add a metric ton of capacity for the expected surge.
Even our itty bitty 25 bed hospital has emptied out as much as possible and mapped out where to cram as many extra beds as they can in anticipation.
Other hospitals around here are nearly empty because they have dedicated all 500 beds to 100% covid and as of today they have like 50 patients in there.
So yes, much hay and conspiracy is being made about how there are no sick people. Those posts will age just as well as those from a month or two ago that said no big deal, we will have at most dozens dead.
Quoted from statsdoc:I found another interesting article in the NY Times from two research professors concerning how the severity of coronavirus might be related to the dosage.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opinion/coronavirus-viral-dose.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share
In case there is a paywall, I will quote a small section of the article with the hopes that this is allowable on this site. Read the article. If this is true, then there is hope that many of us could acquire some immunity through normal activities as long as we curtail others.
“The importance of viral dose is being overlooked in discussions of the coronavirus. As with any other poison, viruses are usually more dangerous in larger amounts. Small initial exposures tend to lead to mild or asymptomatic infections, while larger doses can be lethal.
From a policy perspective, we need to consider that not all exposures to the coronavirus may be the same. Stepping into an office building that once had someone with the coronavirus in it is not as dangerous as sitting next to that infected person for an hourlong train commute.
This may seem obvious, but many people are not making this distinction. We need to focus more on preventing high-dose infection.
Both small and large amounts of virus can replicate within our cells and cause severe disease in vulnerable individuals such as the immunocompromised. In healthy people, however, immune systems respond as soon as they sense a virus growing inside. Recovery depends on which wins the race: viral spread or immune activation.”
Might also explain why healthcare workers are having statistically significant worse outcomes than the general public.
My wife has gone from 36 hrs a week to 45 hrs with the expectation that in another week or so she will be bumped up to 50-60 hrs a week.
Also her pay will be cut in half at that point.
I am a house husband for the foreseeable future.
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:Wait....what? They are gonna double her work load and halve her pay? So work more for nearly the same amount of money? What kind of work does she do?
Yep. Double work, halve the pay. So if she was hourly, it’s like she is making quarter her hourly wage. She is an internal medicine doctor.
Quoted from statsdoc:Made even more difficult by the apparent number of false negatives that are showing up on coronavirus cases.
I am not which is worse right now, false positives or false negatives.
I’ll go with False negatives being way worse. You think you are clean and then you go be a Typhoid Mary.
This site uses the John Hopkins dataset and plots it in a way where you can compare each state vs. any other subset of states. (So MN vs. TX, MN vs. All, etc. )
Also has some global data. Both log and linear scale.
So feds tell states to fend for themselves.
Massachusetts Then buys 3 million masks.
Feds then seize the masks.
Our system is so broken right now.
“Mississippi currently has the highest COVID-19 hospitalization rate in the nation, at 31 percent, according to states’ health department data gathered by The COVID Tracking Project.”
31%.
Quoted from iceman44:Wow. I see nothing has changed here. Surprise
Time to provide some perspective and facts again! Lol. Nvm
Doomsday, it’s game over people
Quoted from iceman44:Survival of the fittest brother
200k is fake news. 3500 in NY city
Gotta learn to live with it
How many in US? Better stop dropping a lot faster to get to 200k
Many More businesses Are dying every day
Good to see you back Ice but man...watch out for that koolaid.
Quoted from Mizzou0103:They only update every few days. They’re supposed to update today, but their projections have been going up with each update. Also, this one tends to be one of the more optimistic projections.
My understanding is that this group is providing the projections that the feds are using. The big assumption (which makes the data optimistic in my opinion) is that stay at home lasts until May. I really want this projection to be accurate. Other numbers I have seen are more depressing.
Quoted from DugFreez:Where does it say the "Feds then seize the masks."? The article I read clearly states:
"The governor did not say which agency or organization confiscated the masks."
He doesn’t say which agency, (my guess is that he is playing nice in the hopes he can get them back) but it was seized at a federal customs location. We don’t know if it was customs, fbi, treasury, etc...but highly unlikely it was Detroit or Maine, etc...because they have zero jurisdiction there.
This is apparently why he asked Kraft to take the Patriots plane to China to pick up supplies...to circumvent the Port.
Quoted from RTR:Those numbers only show mortality. They don’t show hospitalizations. An inordinate number of people with Covid19 wind up in the hospital as compared to flu and they stay longer.
The numbers get a lot worse for everyone that requires hospitalization if the healthcare system in an area has been overwhelmed.
Younger people can still get their ass whipped by this and wind up getting better in a hospital bed. As long as good care is available, they don’t show up in the mortality figures.
This
Japan has started a serious trial of another existing drug for treatment of covid-19. They are also trying to distribute for free to other countries including USA for testing. Right now the very limited data suggests it is helpful in arresting mild to moderate viral loads. So an early treatment option maybe. Will be interesting to see if this pans out.
Avigan (Favipiravir)
https://www.wired.com/story/japan-is-racing-to-test-a-drug-to-treat-covid-19/
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Damn ice cream isle at my local Kroger was bare bones again. I need a pint or two of Ben and Jerry's cookie dough (posting this while on an exercise bike lol).
[quoted image]
Lemme guess, the only things left are strawberry and cherry jubilee 
For all those “I well what about all those other things that kill us?” Questions or arguments, here is a fun little visualization of the last month.
Quoted from Oaken:For all those “I well what about all those other things that kill us?” Questions or arguments, here is a fun little visualization of the last month.
https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/1712761/
Oh and we are undercounting deaths too:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/us/coronavirus-deaths-undercount.html
Quoted from cait001:did it get mentioned that Boris Johnson, PM of the UK, is in the hospital with Coronavirus?
https://www.ft.com/content/402373d2-fc14-4880-8d48-c95d78204639
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/uk/boris-johnson-coronavirus-hospital-gbr-intl/index.html
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/06/boris-johnson-can-run-country-from-hospital-bed-says-uk-minister-coronavirus
Don’t worry, it’s a routine, precautionary, measure...
Or to put it another way:
It’s just a flesh wound.
Quoted from Mr68:That drug he spoke of is hydroxychloroquine. It's already FDA approved and has been used safely for many years. And it's being used in clinical trials right now with FDA approval.
https://www.ecowatch.com/fda-coronavirus-malaria-drugs-2645615157.html
True, but it is a drug with potentially serious side effects that needs to be prescribed and monitored by medical professionals. Also it is in clinical trials as a treatment not as a preventative.
The impression given last night was that it is more like taking vitamin c supplements to ward off a common cold. Which is not at all how this drug is intended to be used.
Quoted from DCFAN:If you post facts without personal comments, then how could it be a violation?
That’s totally zen man.
Quoted from Mr68:Off label use, with doctor approval is used all of the time and with many, many different drugs. The FDA allows it.
Hydroxychloroquine is another tool with great possibilities and notable disease experts are the ones that discovered its use here. Not some politician. There are people in crisis right now who cannot wait a year and a half for a vaccine.
I love your optimism, but the vast majority of the time miracle drugs don’t pan out. Everyone needs to keep a level head. We simply don’t know if this one works yet. It will be months before we do.
Right now, the only published results are from very small studies, and they contradict each other. (Ex: One says it’s great, one says it does absolutely nothing).
Quoted from cait001:That makes sense at first glance, but the problem is that the supply-chain is international. You start blocking stuff leaving, other companies will stop sending stuff in. This is not my opinion, these were in the briefings provided by 3M. They clearly warned that protectionist export policies will result in a net reduction in available supplies in the USA.
Aren’t some of the raw materials 3M uses to make the masks sourced from Canada?
Quoted from o-din:This is crazy! Keep those crematoriums going.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/new-york-bury-corpses-public-park-morgues-full-182609272.html
“A typical hospital morgue might hold 15 bodies. Those are now all full. So OCME has sent out 80 refrigerated trailers to hospitals around the city. Each trailer can hold 100 bodies. These are now mostly full too. Some hospitals have had to add a 2nd or even a 3rd trailer,”
Quoted from swampfire:I finished the worst part of my quarantine deck staining project. No more tall ladders after this part. Don’t you love it when your spouse comes over and says “that ladder isn’t safe like that”, but then walks away without offering to hold it?[quoted image]
My wife does that every. Single. Time. Usually with a “I don’t want you to fall on me” type comment.
Pastor defies ban, holds service for a few hundred people, gets fined.
Yesterday same dude defies ban and holds service for 1500 people.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tony-spell-louisiana-pastor-coronavirus-ban-palm-sunday-services/
Quoted from cait001:It's probably fair to note that TheBlaze is not a Wikipedia-deemed reliable news source and anything there should be taken with deep scientific skepticism.
I want it to be true but anecdotal evidence won't be enough to make it a real medical solution.
EDIT: what pinball_gizzard said!
The Blaze....I suppose even a stopped clock is right twice a day, but I wouldn’t bet my life on anything they are selling without significant additional research.
Some positive news from Allstate and American Family Insurance. Maybe some other companies will feel the pressure to jump on the bandwagon.
Interesting article on transmission:
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/03/24/science.abb3221
A lot of transmission by folks who at the time feel fine or just a little under the weather. Also a ton of transmission by undocumented cases. Combo the two and you get the majority of cases being transmitted by untested people who feel basically fine.
Testing testing testing. No control until we have a huge testing program.
Or stay inside for much much longer.
Brief report on what we knew and when we knew it in the intelligence community and when it was disclosed up the food chain:
Quoted from arcademojo:Not sure if this was posted yet.
New York hospitals discharge more coronavirus patients than they bring in for four straight days
https://www.theblaze.com/news/new-york-hospitals-discharge-more-coronavirus-patients-than-they-admit-for-four-straight-days
If you don't want to read the blaze then you can go here.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/discharges-outpace-hospitalizations-in-new-york-for-4th-straight-day_3299082.html#
Honestly second source (and especially it’s founders) is even less reputable than the first.
I respect you, your opinions, and the work you are doing during this crisis, but your sources are another matter entirely.
Quoted from Wickerman2:New details from HHS and FEMA released by the Oversight Committee indicates that federal government has depleted 90% of its stockpile of respirators/gloves/other emergency equipment. Remaining 10% will be kept for federal workers.
https://oversight.house.gov/sites/democrats.oversight.house.gov/files/documents/SNS%20PPE%20REPORT.pdf
Well good, that’s one less thing for me to be upset about (release the damn PPE).
Now to start working on the other 999 things on the list.
Quoted from woody76:all models and projections of this thing where all OFF by miles and fauci (the so called expert) has been wrong almost every step of the way. January - Americans have nothing to worry about. March - shut eveything down. April - Ok we can now start relaxing the infected quarantine rules from 14 tyo 7 days.
We probably should have followed Sweden's model and keep the elderly and un-healthy at home quarantined and the rest of the population keep moving. All the projections are off by 80%.
Define miles
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:Sorry but I don't know how it works in the US, I thought if you were not insured you had to pay, So if I was one of the 10 million that just had been laid off and have no money why would I go get a $2-3k Covid test.
Well on the bright side depending on where you live, odds are there wouldn’t be one available for you not to afford anyway.
Follow up on the feds seizing Massachusetts masks. Turns out they aren’t the only ones.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-04-07/hospitals-washington-seize-coronavirus-supplies
My wife’s clinic had an order of oximeters seized of all things.
Ouch
“Minnesota hospitals and health systems are collectively losing $31 million in revenue per day as a result of reductions in patient volumes. This represents a 55% reduction of patient revenues, on average. Smaller hospitals are reporting closer to 70% revenue reductions. This loss is expected to remain consistent over at least the next 90 days for an impact of $2.8 billion.“
This is pretty inline with what most of the hospital networks are doing. Many are also planning mass unpaid furloughs beginning in May.
Quoted from wrb1977:When I say China’s fault, I’m primarily referring to how the virus got into the human population. I also believe that countries would have been better prepared had China been honest and up front with the rest of the world from the beginning. That being said, all countries, including our own had their own missteps in preparing for this. I am NOT absolving our leadership from responsibility as they should and will be held accountable as well for any missteps along the way.
Well since we have yet to find patient zero we don’t really know exactly how it got into the human population.
Was China slow to respond sure. Did they then come in huge and oppressively to shut that shit down, you bet. Have they been less than honest about the whole affair? Of course.
If we are using cleanliness of meat production, snappy response, and honesty as our metrics, lord help the USA.
Quoted from JimWilks:I don't think they really meant a reduction in patient volumes.
More likely they meant a reduction in PAYING patient volumes.
No, there has been a huge reduction in volume here. Covid surge hasn’t happened yet. All knee surgery, back surgery, dental surgery, health exams, psych sessions, etc... canceled.
Basically all non emergency medicine shutdown. That’s a lot of medicine.
Quoted from Colsond3:Hahaha. But I want to get to the episode where they build a Starbucks somewhere in Westeros!!
I just got through “The Red Wedding”. Liking the Starks, needless to say I was thoroughly pissed off by the end of the episode.
Fair warning:
51B58FA9-EE80-484C-8CAE-98C957270F11.jpegQuoted from Wickerman2:Re: Covid-19 VIRUS
"The germ has gotten so brilliant that the antibiotic can't keep up with it ... there's a whole genius to it ... not only is it hidden, but it's very smart."
Saw that and my reaction was
Quoted from arcademojo:Dr. Anthony Fauci: Americans could eventually carry certificates of immunity to coronavirus
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/10/dr-anthony-fauci-americans-could-eventually-carry-/?fbclid
Saw that too. Not sure how that’s gonna work out, especially now that there are concerns over flare ups and repeat infections.
I have no clue when this thing is gonna finally blow over, and I am not confident that anyone else knows either.
part of me is judging everyone, the other part is making a list of searches to see what I am missing.
Quoted from PtownPin:clearly you don't have kids at home....I watch a news channel that presents the facts, and not ones that want to politicize everything....
Sooo... BBC?
Heat to vinegar ratio is what I look to. Cholula is nice and mild. My go to everyday life (eggs, toast, etc). Tabasco is too vinegary for me. If I am cooking, I usually won’t use any of those types of pepper sauces and instead just put a couple scoops of fresh chili paste in there.
Quoted from Daditude:Im not big on the vinegar either. Tabasco is good for cooking, however, because the vinegar burns off.
Will keep that in mind. Next week is soup week on the quarantine calendar.
This thread is good for all the random obvious things in life I should already know but didn’t.
The gold label is what I was referring to and use when cooking. You can also add afterwards, which we have to do now due to the kids. Make things super plain for kiddos then add a scoop of the paste on your rice.
Beware if you don’t distribute it properly and you get the 99% paste bite
Edit: Also don’t spill it on your wife’s phone when passing it to her. Destroys speakers and you will never hear the end of it.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/coronavirus-chaos-grips-ecuador-as-bodies-rot-in-the-street
Spent a couple years in Quito so this hits a little close to home for me. I fear there will be more and more of these stories globally before we are done.
Quoted from underlord:Bought eggs yesterday. Lol. High end range free full stock. Big boxes of cheaper eggs, all gone. It’s a pandemic...but on a budget.
Same thing happened to us. Gonna make me some fancy omelettes.
Quoted from Who-Dey:There wasnt anyone near me other than like 2 other people that I passed while walking. I may be wrong but I just dont think that is a problem being out in the open air like that. I gotta believe that it's different than being in the aisle of a store and passing someone.
I wasnt real crazy about walking through the group of dumbass kids in front of the pizza place and then paying for my pizza and being in close proximity to the workers. I have not been going out to eat hardly any but sometimes I gotta have a pizza since it's my favorite food and the frozen pizzas just haven't been cutting it.
Right or wrong, I like to think of it like farts only larger affected volume. Sure, farting in an elevator (enclosed place) is worst case, but that don’t mean I can’t walk through a cloud of stink while out on a walk.
Quoted from Jaybird815:Want to go for a walk?
I would but right now dealing with the traditional Easter snow.
image (resized).jpgQuoted from Mizzou0103:Here’s the link for anyone that missed it. It links to a summary but the full article is linked at the bottom.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/us/coronavirus-live-updates.html#link-73167b75
Here’s a direct lift from the summary.
“Dozens of interviews and a review of emails and other records by The New York Times revealed many previously unreported details of the roots and extent of his halting response:
The National Security Council office responsible for tracking pandemics received intelligence reports in early January predicting the spread of the virus, and within weeks raised options like keeping Americans home from work and shutting down large cities.
Despite Mr. Trump’s denial, he was told at the time about a Jan. 29 memo produced by his trade adviser, Peter Navarro, laying out in striking detail the potential risks of a coronavirus pandemic.
The health and human services secretary directly warned Mr. Trump of the possibility of a pandemic during a call on Jan. 30, the second warning he delivered to the president about the virus. The president said he was being alarmist.
The health secretary publicly announced in February that the government was establishing a “surveillance” system in five American cities to measure the spread of the virus. It was delayed for weeks, leaving administration officials with almost no insight into how rapidly the virus was spreading.”
Pretty thorough and damning article.
Even if none of that happened, I will still consider our response a colossal fuck up until the day comes where my wife after working a 12 hr shift doesn’t have to come home and spend all night learning how to sew her own masks, using pillowcases for the fabric because the fabric stores are out, pipe cleaners for the nose pieces because yep they are out of the metal bands too, and the elastic bands from old children’s clothing for the ear loops because, you guessed it, those cannot be found either.
And this is a national problem. She is actually mailing pipe cleaners to friends in New Orleans to use.
Fucked up situation.
Rant off.
Quoted from wrb1977:Other than April 10th, there seems to be a very positive trend developing with the daily deaths in the US. Let’s hope and pray this continues...
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
Doesn’t inspire confidence when places like Florida are being cagey with the nursing home situation.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article241942211.html
Quoted from goingincirclez:I've always fascinated with how "the pieces form the whole" and how a change to a "system" has various effects beyond the "system". Things are way more interconnected than most folks realize.
Anyway, when this first became "real to the US" with lockdowns and such a month ago and my kids' school was canceled, I told them not to freak out, but not get false hope either... because it would take a while for impacts to be felt and cause new ripple effects downstream... repeat, etc.
So, the supply-chain ripples are only now starting to have their own impacts re: packing plant shutdowns, agricultural worker impacts, PPE shortages, etc - and for example, things like that will definitely affect the "return to sports" so many are desperate for. (IMO, a "return to live spectator sports" would be incredibly irresponsible not just because of social distancing, but because if things like food and medicine are still in abnormally short supply they shouldn't be wasted at stadiums).
But HERE'S an interesting ripple effect I never would have thought of!:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/starving-angry-cannibalistic-america-s-rats-are-getting-desperate-amid-n1180611
I imagine scavenging birds and other animals are having to adapt as well.... pretty amazing to think this is affecting the animal kingdom by proxy.
Haha I was JUST about to post that.
(Said in best church lady voice): Won’t someone please think of the pests?
Quoted from underlord:Issue is the same with any disease in history. Less food available from us=aggression in rodents. Next step is invading homes, and then sickness.
Super rats. Am I the only one getting a the Rats of Nimh vibe?
Quoted from wrb1977:I’m feeling a little more optimistic today...just sharing some potentially positive news! Dammit...quit bringing me back down!
Quoted from PantherCityPins:I’ve been a physician for over 20 years and I’ve never gotten a kickback. Damn, did miss it?
The biggest bestest kickbacks we ever got were pens and paper pads from the pharm sales reps during my wife’s first year of residency. By second year they had shut that down too.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:We used to get lunch provided at our grand rounds and there were some pens by the food but that’s the extent of my riches from the pharmaceutical industry.
Lunches had ended by residency, but she did get a lot of free lunches while in med school. I’m still using the pads and a couple of the pens all these years later.
Probably have a decade or so to go before they are all gone.
And as far as paid speaking the other poster referred to, most clinics have ethics departments that won’t let that shit fly. Independents that are their own ethics officers can make up their own rules, but the Dr. Nicks of the world are the exception and not the rule.
Quoted from goingincirclez:[quoted image]
That's my favorite example. I remember seeing those all over the hospital I was working at, at the time. A custom-tooled taped dispenser?! That didn't come cheap!
Over 15 years ago I was questioning how much money pharmacos were spending to influence prescriptions and spending. Personally I'd rather they lower prices and quit tooling stupid vanity office products.
And I'm sure for every tape dispenser and stitch-branded golf bag, etc I saw, there were nice lunches and free samples and other psychological influences I didn't. Kickbacks don't necessarily mean salary, but anything that influences a prescription. "Here, try some samples of this stuff, they don't cost me anything, let me know if it works..."
1). 15 years was a long time ago. A lot has changed.
2). If you think tape dispensers are expensive, wait until you see the cost of a 30 second tv ad. And that entire budget was and is just a small part of the overall cost of a drug. Insulin didn’t go from $15 to $150 a vial because they gave every doc in America a pen.
3). The appearance of unethical behavior is precisely why all that stuff is now shut down by pretty much every ethics department everywhere.
Quoted from Who-Dey:No they/we do not but yet they downvote the hell out of anyone that says maybe this isn't what we thought it was. I hope like hell that this isnt what we originally thought it was..I think it would be the most wonderful thing in the world if this turned out to be more mild than what we thought.
I downvote some of what you say here because I disagree and upvote you in the bubble hockey thread because I agree. So I guess it all evens out right?
I feel you are well intentioned but way off the mark. My suggestion is over the next few weeks/months watch what happens globally where they didn’t shut their lives down. That’s about a good a proxy as you will get for what could have (and may still) happened here.
36CFF92C-A224-482A-BF75-6A6246DCA171.jpegQuoted from chad:Worldwide there are videos showing how empty the hospitals are. They are laying off nurses left and right despite saying how busy they are. I saw a clip of some choreographed dance with a bunch of medical people involved in a hospital . I have driven by my hospital and immediate care places several times , no difference than other given days.
Well for one thing the hospital networks tried to get ahead of this thing so they don’t end up like New York or Milan or Wuhan, etc... If and when it hits a region, the hospitals are slammed. You don’t board up your windows when the hurricane comes ashore, by then it’s too late.
For another, there is no PPE anywhere, so they had had to close down all satellite clinics in order to scavenge their PPE. My wife’s clinic had to close because they needed the masks, gloves, and cotton swabs at the hospital. Yep, they shutdown her practice for cotton swabs. That means the few remaining primary sites get flooded with staff. Staff you don’t need until the surge happens.
Finally, because they aren’t doing procedures (surgeries), wellness visits, etc...anymore their income goes to zero. There is a real payroll cash crunch going on in the networks.
So you couldn’t pay the nurses even if you wanted to. Better to put them on unpaid furlough so that they can collect unemployment and then when the surge hits or you get the all clear, you can call them back in.
If you want to watch world wide hospital videos, look at Milan, New York, Guayaquil, Detroit, Albany (GA), New Orleans (in another week or so).
There is a real effort in certain areas of the web to make this all look like it’s no big deal. If you are watching videos of empty hospitals presented as truth this whole thing is overblown, you are watching propaganda.
Quoted from littlecammi:Maybe because you were the hanging chad ballot that didn't count the first time?
Too soon. Too soon.
Explosion at Maine paper mill. I’m ashamed to admit it but, My first reaction was “oh no the toilet paper”, followed by “I hope everyone is ok”. Damn covid has totally messed up priorities.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/15/us/maine-paper-mill-explosion/index.html
https://wgme.com/news/local/reports-of-explosion-at-jay-mill
Quoted from metallik:Businesses that can keep distance should be allowed to operate.
But, if you try to allow that, you'll have bunches of businesses that try to cheat and reopen without proper spacing, or without the ability to provide spacing. So you have to regulate who can reopen, and regulation takes time and effort and money and people don't like it.
So how do we get businesses like your buddy's back up without opening the floodgates for everyone? This is the problem governments of all levels have to resolve.
This. I like where your thought train is going arcademojo but unfortunately I am not aware of any level of government that has really built out the middle way train tracks yet.
Heck, the “essential businesses” side of things has been an inconsistent mess as the individual states muddle through it.
Incompetence or grift? I suppose it doesn’t really matter because we are still going to be left in the lurch.
FEMA gave a 55 million dollar no-bid contract for N95 masks to a bankrupt company that does not possess or manufacture masks. Also has no employees.
Quoted from arcademojo:Tell me something I already don't know. Sooner or later the TRUTH will come out.
"Growing belief that coronavirus originated in Wuhan lab, sources say"
https://www.foxnews.com/us/coronavirus-likely-originated-in-wuhan-lab-sources-say?fbclid
It didn’t.
Quoted from cait001:Yeah, OK, it didn't, BUT WHAT IF IT DID????
I guess it’s 50-50.
Quoted from wrb1977:Those of you in the US...important...please read...
https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/
Step 1: steal underpants
Step 2:
Step 3: Profit!
Brazil is trying the “ignore it and it will go away” approach. It is bad, and it will only get worse.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Who-Dey:Even Dr Fauci said that the caronavirus was nothing in the beginning. They were probably going off of what he said I would assume since they are not doctors themselves.
His words were taken out of context then and now. He did not say it was nothing. He did say in the beginning that Americans did not need to change their behavior, yet. Everything he said at the time was couched in phrases like “subject to change” and “as of now”.
Given his experience, he should have known that people would not pick up on his careful parsing and probably should have phrased things differently. (Kind of reminds me of how fed chairmen have to be careful of exactly how they say something).
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fauci-nothing-to-worry-about/
Aaand I am back from self imposed exile. Happy May everyone!
Fauci and a bunch of the task force folks are now in quarantine after being exposed to White House staff.
Quoted from wrb1977:I have been following the data and trends on worldometers from the beginning. Every weekend in April and May the numbers drop significantly hitting a low on Sunday then start going back up on Monday. Can anyone explain how the virus knows it’s the weekend?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
The virus doesn’t care, but reporting agencies do.
Quoted from o-din:Well, there has never been a successful vaccine for any coronavirus, so they are being a little overly optimistic in that department for sure. And there may never be one. A lot of people are going to be guinea pigs for whatever they do stick in their arms.
And now we have inmates trying to get the virus in hopes of an early release.
I love your optimism that the arms are where we are gonna get stuck.
Quoted from Utesichiban:Herd immunity is accomplished through vaccination, not everyone getting infected and playing survival of the fittest and luckiest. Herd immunity via infection would kill 2-5 million in the US alone.
I think a vaccine will not take 12-18 months which has been stated since the beginning. My guess is there will be a couple ready and available for those willing to accept the risk of lacking longer term data as early as mid to late fall.
As a fun example of supply chain hiccups, if we had a vaccine ready to go today, we still couldn’t distribute it because there is a shortage of glass bottles right now. Can’t just put it in a mason jar. Takes a special kind of river sand and there isn’t enough of it in the supply chain right now to make the shit ton of bottles needed.
Also, there is to a lesser degree a supply chain bottleneck on the membranes and plastic caps that go on the bottles.
My worry is that the shortages will still exist when the vaccine is ready to go and so they will pull vials from other medicine supply chain (vaccines, Insulin, etc) which will then create ANOTHER problem.
Quoted from gweempose:How do you keep your sunglasses from fogging up?
This. Try as I might my glasses always fog. End up walking around blind with my glasses on or half blind with them off.
Quoted from embryonjohn:New York and New Jersey required nursing homes to admit patients who had tested positive for COVID-19.
Meanwhile, Florida & Georgia prohibited nursing homes from admitting such patients even if they had an elevated temperature or respiratory congestion.
The different results of these different policies are exactly what you would expect. And in my opinion, this one policy enacted by NY & NJ constitutes over one quarter of all the deaths in this country.
But that Cuomo guy...he’s one fine, fancy talker!
We really should all listen to him and his adoring sycophants in the press.
What the fuck were these two states thinking and who are the people putting faith in any decisions they’re still yet to make?
I read this and thought “that can’t be right. They couldn’t be that foolish could they?” Had to look it up. Damn.
Quoted from rwmech5:Yup, 18 months for my son to see a specialist.
Hell pre covid in the states my specialist was booked out 9 months for a 6 month check up.
Quoted from albummydavis:Without being political, I thought this was an interesting perspective. It does make you wonder about the role of non-stop information and news and how it may influence our tolerance for suffering. It’s pretty horrifying 1-4 million dead and none of us really think about it when we think about 1969.
https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/why-life-went-on-as-normal-during-the-killer-pandemic-of-1969/
The night is young.
Also, I feel obligated to recite my mantra: this is not the flu, this is not the flu, this is not the flu
Quoted from albummydavis:Why are you guys so freaking threatened? I wouldn’t suggest it is. That said, there are parallels. And it’s interesting to see the difference in attitutdes, even between flu outbreaks in 1969 and 2009.
Was going more for glib/flippant vs. threatened.
Flu comparisons have a long and storied history with this virus, so when they continue to crop up they tend to evoke an initial eye roll and sigh response.
That being said, it is understandable that people want to compare this new fangled thing to something that is known, (I do it too). Assuming good intentions, it just has to be done carefully or you fall into the coin flip trap. (What are the odds I flip a coin 10 times and it comes up heads every time vs. I flipped a coin 9 times and it was heads each time. What are the odds the 10th flip is heads).
Tl:dr Not threatened, was just joshing you a bit.
Quoted from Djshakes:Under counted?
This fat nothing burger is overstated bc lots of deaths are being attributed and counted as covid when they aren't true covid deaths. There's incentive too... 20% bump in your drg. Plus many are asymptomatic which would drive down the percent of deaths per infected if we had true counts.
Funny to see people digging in their heels. Easier to fool someone then convince them they've been fooled I guess.
I’m just going to leave this here:
Quoted from PantherCityPins:While it is true there is a 20% higher reimbursement for a COVID-19 DRG code I can tell you that the system has always paid different amounts for different diagnoses and doctors are not pressured to cite a false diagnosis in order to increase hospital reimbursement. In fact, that’s fraud and is a reason a doctor or a hospital would be investigated and fined or even jailed.
Quoted from Djshakes:Thanks, I only work for the largest medical group in San Diego. What would I know.
So you are implying the largest medical group in San Diego is committing fraud.
Quoted from taylor34:Today felt like the day where things just reactivated, regardless of whether it makes sense or not. Kind of like the opposite of that day in March where things just shut down quickly after Tom Hanks got it and they cancelled the NCAA tourney. I really can't tell what's going to happen honestly. Most people aren't wearing masks around here, and the general vibe I get from everyone is that it's over and it's nothing to worry about anymore. Heck back in Nebraska I saw they're still going to play legion baseball despite them being one of the states still accelerating.
Same around here. Last week, few people out walking together and if they were, they wore masks or walked one on sidewalk one in the street for distancing. Yesterday saw many many people pushing strollers next to each other on sidewalk, no masks, giving hugs as they separated. The playgrounds are to be opened soon, but people took the initiative and have torn down the police tape. Lots of laughing playing children...I worry about them.
I am witnessing a serious “the war is over and we won” vibe. Makes me very concerned for 6-10 weeks from now.
As of today, it looks like National Guard deployed for the federal covid response are getting the shaft. Subject to change of course, but their deployment will end at 89 days. 90 days deployed gets them a whole bunch of benefits. Also while deployed they get a bump in healthcare benefits. Over 1000 have tested positive so far.
I feel pretty strongly that we shouldn’t be yanking their chains like this.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/19/national-guard-coronavirus-267514
Quoted from Daditude:I just got some humor out of this one, so I figured I would share it.
I demand more cat memes!
Quoted from dirkdiggler:My wife stitched her first mask yesterday. 2nd design will be better but hey, first attempt. She says it looks more inviting then my n95 mask. Think I'll get her to make one out of one of my Harley Davidson bandanas or a Pilsner or Molson Canadian mini flag
[quoted image]
If you can’t find any little metal bands to insert for the nose piece part, pipe cleaners cut to size work ok.
Also you can try to cut out the ones from the used professional masks and slot them into the homemade ones.
Quoted from Gott1978:Routinely given to U.S. forces deployed to certain parts of Africa and South America. When I deployed to those areas in the 1980 the entire team took the drug with no side effects or issues.
But were you obese, elderly, had an underlying heart condition, and/or an illness that stresses the heart at the time?
Quoted from Gunnut40:Wear a mask for 8 hours in factory and see if you change your mind? Sweat soaked mask safely glasses fogging up. No haircut cause you know why. Oh let’s throw a bump hat on it .
[quoted image]
Yep. It’s a pretty big problem. If safety equipment isn’t quasi comfortable/convenient, then even well intentioned people will circumvent it.
As the good dr pointed out, a good fit of the mask around the bridge of your nose will help prevent fogging. For me, the best I can do means it doesn’t fog for like 15-30 minutes. Not exactly functional for an 8 hr shift. That’s why I think you see so many people with masks pulled down beneath their nose. They then try and remember to flip it back up and over when someone approaches. Of course, this means you are constantly touching your face so...
As far as the haircut, I just used my beard trimmer on the highest setting and gave myself a head beard. Problem solved. Trimmer was a joke gift from my wife since I can’t grow a beard to save my life. Look whose laughing now wife! (My neighbors probably).
Quoted from srmonte:How many of the pro lockdown and quarantine crowd on here actually have jobs? I would guess a lot of you people are retired. If you are retired please stay home and quarantine as long as you want. Stop telling the rest of us that are still working our way through to follow your bullshit. I know your older if your retired so continue to be very very careful. I respect you all being safe. There are many of us who do not share your fortune.
I had a job, does that count?
Quoted from Who-Dey:The President said that there will not be any lockdowns when the second wave comes. The lockdowns were a huge mistake and it crushed everyone's economy.
Sweden has graciously volunteered to be the control group in this experiment. Educated, fantastic healthcare system, good social safety net, didn’t shutdown.
Time will tell what the final outcome will be, but at this point in time, it’s looking like they are going to have one of the highest death rates and their economy is still predicted to get hammered.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:This stuff just seems so arbitrary and made up.
It’s probably not a great idea for 100 people to get together. And if 100 people are now considered “safe” to hang with, why not 200?
Where’s the science behind “100 people is fine?”
Just telling us what some people want to hear I guess.
Total guess, but probably someone with a chart like this convinced them. Hopefully more updated (my chart is from mid March)
D268674D-23E6-47AA-86B2-EB9AE000DA12.jpegQuoted from Gunnut40:Yeah I wasn’t talking about me. I was talking about my co workers in the casting plant. If I’m having problems which I can deal with it. What are they going through? I’m having co workers pulling down the mask and coughing in my face. Trying to talk in factory is part lip reading and we are half deaf anyways. I’m just saying until you work in factory and say it’s Not cake walk do not judge! Oh doc thanks for all your input on medic field.
One of least fun yet very educational experiences I had early in my former career was heading into a heat treat shop to try and figure out why we were having parts with what looked like a thin brittle nitride layer when they weren’t supposed to be Nitrided at all.
Hot, loud, fume-y. Felt like I was stepping back into the medieval ages.
I feel for these shops. Nasty, hard, job in the best of times. It will take some extra thinking to make sure everyone stays safe. My concern I referenced previously is that cloth masks will be sufficiently irritating that the workers will refuse to wear them properly.
Quoted from Who-Dey:No they aren't because this virus has been way overblown by the media and it's not that bad for most people. There are certain groups of people who need to protect themselves but most people can go on with life as they normally would.
Dammit who-Dey quit triggering me.
At least you didn’t call it the flu.
Quoted from Who-Dey:The hospital parking lots are empty and they are laying off nurses in Ohio. Explain that......
Same thing here, so I will speak from our perspective. Some thoughts.
Nearly the entirety of non covid non emergency medicine got shutdown when the state got shutdown early on.
1) that is a ton of procedures and clinics shutdown. Means there are a ton of doctors and support staff suddenly flowing to emergency and covid care.
2) no one is allowed to visit covid and general visitation was significantly curtailed. So visitor parking was virtually eliminated.
3) No profitable procedures, no money to pay anyone. Low man on totem pole is med assists and nurses. They get shitcanned. Doctors and admin and other support staff took a big haircut.
4) because state shutdown early the surge didn’t happen. Now after all this time, the state is opening up slowly...right as hospitalizations are increasing. We in my family fully expect my wife to be deployed to a covid hospital by end of summer if not sooner.
Quoted from srmonte:100,000 deaths is terrible. Pretty sure that there was a death count like this last flu season. And it has come to light that pretty much all deaths are labeled covid now a days " it's the new normal". So once again for those who want to remain quarantine great. But back off on others who want and need to work. Enjoy those doomsday bunkers.
Quoted from gambit3113:According to the CDC, 2019-2020 flu season killed about 8,200 Americans. Could you be more wrong? Answer: Negative. Ignore with glee.
And 2018-2019 season was estimated at around 35000.
So yeah, not the flu.
Also the flu generally doesn’t give you lingering effects. Looking like covid stays with you for awhile.
And the covid death label thing. That is an established and well refuted conspiracy. Tired of repeating myself on that one.
I would love for the totals to be inflated. I would love for the flu to be worse than this. Hell, let’s just say some poindexter forgot the decimal and they really mean 1000.00 deaths. It isn’t true, but That number makes me FEEL much better, so let’s go with that. The virus doesn’t care. It will keep doing what it be doing no matter what you tell yourself so you can sleep at night.
In a few years it will be relatively easy to ballpark the dead simply by looking at average expected deaths vs. actual reported deaths. Of course, I am sure by then there will be another conspiracy about how those extra deaths were really not ever actually living people, just squirrels in suits that decided they really wanted to go live in the parks again or some other such nonsense.
Another thought to chew on. Let’s pretend the only severe outcomes are for the old and those with preconditions. For the rest of us, it’s just a little flu. So the rest of us keep going on.
How exactly are we supposed to keep those folks safe when the sickness will then be raging like a wildfire all around them? Because of their circumstances they probably see or should see a doctor often. How are they safely going to sit in the waiting rooms? Go back one year, it was a pretty big deal if for example a TB patient came into the clinic and didn’t follow the rules. Have to sterilize everything, Contact people, etc. It’s kinda a “oh shit” moment. And now it would be a daily concern unless we are going to upend our healthcare model by sending docs to patients or having permanently “clean” and “dirty” clinics. What if the docs have covid? Are we going to do moonsuit Monday’s at the nursing homes?
The ones that still want to be working won’t be able to safely work unless you expect all businesses to create clean side and dirty sides. Talk about a major business disruption with that.
What about their relatives? They can’t have contact with these people unless they keep themselves clean too. Goes for any sort of staff or interaction they have (getting food for example).
Also, the old and the preconditioned is a fairly large portion of our society. Add in the people directly around them and you are talking a big bite of the population.
It is easy to say “personal responsibility. Fend for yourself.” But it just isn’t functional if you consider it just a tad more. This thing is too big for people to fight piecemeal unless you are willing to accept the number of victims. Economic or otherwise.
Quoted from ForceFlow:I have a cousin who is an ER doctor. A few weeks ago he said the hospital administration was ordering staff to classify all causes of death as covid-19, even if they obviously were not. I was a bit skeptical, but then I heard of other hospitals doing similar things a little while later.
Maybe it wasn't *all* hospitals that were doing that, but it appears there may have been a few of them.
I'm not sure if those calls have been reversed now after autopsies & investigations since it's been a few weeks, but it at least seemed to be happening for a time.
Counterpoint: I have a wife who is a doctor that says no one in her network has been pressured or told to classify all causes of death as covid-19.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Nobody is forcibly locked away. If you are 100 years old and want to go to Wal Mart and put yourself at risk then you can. Our constitutional rights gives them that right.
What about a 25 yr old diabetic that needs to see their endocrinologist? Or the 50 yr old with stents that needs an eye exam? Or the truck drivers that need their wellness exams for dmv certification that have a host of managed health issues. How do you propose we protect them as they go about trying to manage their health?
Quoted from DNO:As Spock said “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”
Or something like that.
The whole of the population just can’t cater to that small % of people, it’s on those people to figure some safe ways.
It’s not perfect, or necessarily “right”.
But neither is everyone suffering for them.
Estimates of US pop(some overlap expected):
10% has a form diabetes
15% Are over 65
7% have most common form of heart disease
7-8% have asthma
Something like 3% immunocompromised
COPD is somewhere around 5%
Over 100 million have high blood pressure
etc...
Point being, it’s a lot of people, not a small %. As a country we are not exactly bastions of good health.
Also, healthy people are getting hospitalized with lingering effects too. Maybe they aren’t dying, but they can still be impacted.
As I have said before, my postulate is that even if we sacrifice the weak to the economic volcano, they are a big enough minority that they will pull in everyone else too.
You have to be very careful with the antibody tests. FDA basically let anyone who wanted to to start marketing tests. Then after they were already flooded in the marketplace, FDA asked companies to provide proof their tests worked if they wanted an “fda approved” sticker.
Even the few with the “approved” stickers are not exactly accurate.
The idea is that if you have antibodies, then you have had covid already and are immune. This is not an unreasonable assumption, but has not been proven.
Quoted from Oaken:In a few years it will be relatively easy to ballpark the dead simply by looking at average expected deaths vs. actual reported deaths. Of course, I am sure by then there will be another conspiracy about how those extra deaths were really not ever actually living people, just squirrels in suits that decided they really wanted to go live in the parks again or some other such nonsense.
The kind of analysis I was referring to will produce a chart like this (note this is preliminary analysis/data):
1762D30C-FAED-42D3-93FC-B94D90C8ED3B.jpegYou're currently viewing posts by Pinsider Oaken.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
This topic is closed.
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
