Quoted from cottonm4:

You are more adventuresome than I, Levi. I am 8 days into this Covid crap. Fortunately, I'm not dead. All I have been able to do is stay in bed. I have no strength or stamina to do much else. Only yesterday did the chills finally break. It has wasted 8 days of my schedule and I am still not 100%. I could not whip my way out of a wet paper bag.
I was thinking about going to TPF in March. Not anymore. I'm done. I am not interested in congregating where where there will 100s of people with out masks and a good percent of them will probably not be vaccinated, either.
Until this covid shit has rode off into the sunset, I'm done. I'm staying home. The economy will have to survive with out me.

Quoted from roffels:

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/10/commentary-what-can-masks-do-part-1-science-behind-covid-19-protection
A good chart to help folks understand mask efficacy - if you're concerned about catching or spreading COVID, consider upgrading your masks to n95s. If one person has covid and and all parties are wearing only cloth masks, it would only take 26 minutes of shared air to infect the other person. If all people are wearing n95s, the time it would take to infect increases exponentially.
Please note, this study was done in earlier covid waves.
[quoted image]

Quoted from roffels:

It doesn't defeat the purpose of a mask if it prevents you from getting sick, after all, someone who isn't sick isn't going to pass on the illness. And cloth masks are incredibly leaky, so I'm not sure what you're suggesting is wrong with my statement. The CDC and NIOSH disagrees with you and your partner. Personally I'd rather be in a room with people with valved n95s than with cloth masks. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use-faq.html
"Yes, an N95 filtering facepiece respirator will protect you and provide source control to protect others. A NIOSH-approved N95 filtering facepiece respirator with an exhalation valve offers the same protection to the wearer as one that does not have a valve. As source control, findings from NIOSH research suggest that, even without covering the valve, N95 respirators with exhalation valves provide the same or better source control than surgical masks, procedure masks, cloth masks, or fabric coverings. In general, individuals wearing NIOSH-approved N95s with an exhalation valve should not be asked to use one without an exhalation valve or to cover it with a face covering or mask. However, NIOSH-approved N95 respirators with an exhalation valve are not fluid resistant. Therefore, in situations where a fluid resistant respirator is indicated (e.g., in surgical settings), individuals should wear a surgical N95 or, if a surgical N95 is not available, cover their respirator with a surgical mask or a face shield. Be careful not to compromise the fit of the respirator when placing a facemask over the respirator."

Quoted from roffels:

It doesn't defeat the purpose of a mask if it prevents you from getting sick, after all, someone who isn't sick isn't going to pass on the illness. And cloth masks are incredibly leaky, so I'm not sure what you're suggesting is wrong with my statement. The CDC and NIOSH disagrees with you and your partner. Personally I'd rather be in a room with people with valved n95s than with cloth masks. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use-faq.html
"Yes, an N95 filtering facepiece respirator will protect you and provide source control to protect others. A NIOSH-approved N95 filtering facepiece respirator with an exhalation valve offers the same protection to the wearer as one that does not have a valve. As source control, findings from NIOSH research suggest that, even without covering the valve, N95 respirators with exhalation valves provide the same or better source control than surgical masks, procedure masks, cloth masks, or fabric coverings. In general, individuals wearing NIOSH-approved N95s with an exhalation valve should not be asked to use one without an exhalation valve or to cover it with a face covering or mask. However, NIOSH-approved N95 respirators with an exhalation valve are not fluid resistant. Therefore, in situations where a fluid resistant respirator is indicated (e.g., in surgical settings), individuals should wear a surgical N95 or, if a surgical N95 is not available, cover their respirator with a surgical mask or a face shield. Be careful not to compromise the fit of the respirator when placing a facemask over the respirator."

Quoted from roffels:

It doesn't defeat the purpose of a mask if it prevents you from getting sick, after all, someone who isn't sick isn't going to pass on the illness. And cloth masks are incredibly leaky, so I'm not sure what you're suggesting is wrong with my statement. The CDC and NIOSH disagrees with you and your partner. Personally I'd rather be in a room with people with valved n95s than with cloth masks. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use-faq.html
"Yes, an N95 filtering facepiece respirator will protect you and provide source control to protect others. A NIOSH-approved N95 filtering facepiece respirator with an exhalation valve offers the same protection to the wearer as one that does not have a valve. As source control, findings from NIOSH research suggest that, even without covering the valve, N95 respirators with exhalation valves provide the same or better source control than surgical masks, procedure masks, cloth masks, or fabric coverings. In general, individuals wearing NIOSH-approved N95s with an exhalation valve should not be asked to use one without an exhalation valve or to cover it with a face covering or mask. However, NIOSH-approved N95 respirators with an exhalation valve are not fluid resistant. Therefore, in situations where a fluid resistant respirator is indicated (e.g., in surgical settings), individuals should wear a surgical N95 or, if a surgical N95 is not available, cover their respirator with a surgical mask or a face shield. Be careful not to compromise the fit of the respirator when placing a facemask over the respirator."

Quoted from RonSS:

Evil corp thing...
I suppose only Wall Street can save Wall Street's mess?
Conflict of interest involving billions of dollars actually does tend to cloud my judgment. I'm sorry, but this an obstacle I can't look past.
Thank you for the list. I wasn't actually asking for people I could trust but certainly appreciate the gesture.

Quoted from Oaken:

Five off the top of my head:
1) Eric Topol
2) Peter Hotez
3) Micheal Mina
4) John Burn-Murdoch and the Financial Times crew
5) Eric Feigl-Ding (if you want more alarmist, but still science based)
Don’t let that evil corp thing cloud your judgement. Gottlieb is a pretty straight shooter.
But that pizza gater…I struggle to create an analogy that is both forum appropriate and adequate to convey how untrustworthy cernovich is to provide advice or insight about anything, especially Covid.

Quoted from Lamberger:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/BGtSE3OfO2wv/
A friend sent this vid, gets interesting around 57:50. Interview with a lifetime public service doctor/scientist that makes vaccine's. Haven't had a chance to research it. This video was made at the beginning of 2021.

Quoted from Trekkie1978:

But I was told here that masks would stop the spread…..
Too bad someone on here didn’t post factual information from the FDA regarding masks, which ones worked and which ones didn’t……….oh wait……I did that.

Quoted from PantherCityPins:

Let me try to help explain.
Unless you wear a mask 24/7 you can’t be certain that you aren’t infected and even if you did there are other methods of infection besides breathing in particles. Family members, neighbors or the postal worker could leave COVID particles around your house. Bottom line is that wearing an N-95 in public does not guarantee you aren’t infected and spreading particles.
Having said that, a valved N-95 does not stop your exhalation at all. If you are infected then any particles you exhale will go out the valve and thus the valved mask is ineffective.
Again, masks aren’t really to prevent you from being infected although N-95s do work better in that regard vs paper masks. The primary function of masking is to catch the respiratory particles from an infected individual and reduce the chances of that person spreading COVID to others.
Hope that helps some.

Quoted from nwpinball:

You never mentioned NIOSH-approved filtering, if that's what you originally meant, then I agree with you. A heavy duty filtering mask is great. What it sounded like is you were advocating for a mask with a straight up exhaust valve that only protects the wearer but does nothing for the people around them. Early on in the pandemic people were wearing those alot and that's what people were critical of and your quote points out they should have the respirator covered with a surgical mask to be effective with airborne viruses. I wear N95s at work and for travel, the only thing I wear a larger respirator and filter for is clear coating playfields.

Quoted from BrianJ1337:

Started researching the list and the first one definitely seems to have a history of “conflict of interest”.
https://hcrenewal.blogspot.com/2005/12/was-topol-fired-for-investigating.html?m=1

Quoted from BrianJ1337:

So it’s a therapy then not a “vaccine” as we used to know it since it doesn’t actually stop the spread.
I’ve said it before in this thread a few times the people I know to have gotten the sickest from covid were all unvaccinated but I know of two vaccine injuries as well (stroke and myocarditis) and a bunch of “breakthrough cases”. I also know a ton of unvaccinated who got it and it was just a mild cold.
My entire argument from day one here is to stop the discrimination when it’s based on nothing more than a collectivist belief that vaccinated can’t spread it and are somehow smarter or better than those that choose to remain unvaccinated. I’ve seen people advocating for losing their jobs, not getting medical treatment etc.
Could I apply that logic to any one of you that are overweight? I’m not fat, I work out and I’m healthy. How stupid or lazy do you have to be to be fat these days when we know how unhealthy it is?
Should we advocate for overweight people to not get medical treatment? They’re the ones who are most susceptible to severe infection from covid. Maybe lose their jobs since they don’t value life like I do?
Nope, it’s America. You can eat or smoke yourself to death that’s your choice. When it comes to this pandemic your choice in getting vaccinated is a choice for you, you’re not saving anyone else but yourself since it’s a leaky vaccine.
I think if you’re concerned with covid you should get the vaccine. I’ve said it a few times now, just don’t think you’re saving America by giving up your rights, advocating for authoritarianism and taking an experimental therapy while pretending you have some moral high ground over those that choose not to participate.

Quoted from BrianJ1337:

My entire argument from day one here is to stop the discrimination when it’s based on nothing more than a collectivist belief that vaccinated can’t spread it

Quoted from BrianJ1337:

collectivist belief that vaccinated can’t spread it and are somehow smarter or better than those that choose to remain unvaccinated.

Quoted from BrianJ1337:

Should we advocate for overweight people to not get medical treatment?

Quoted from Oaken:

Did you even read what you posted? 15 years ago Topol was on the conflict of interest committee and was investigating the chairman. The conflict was not his own.

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Question for ya guys as I can't find 100% clear information online or the CDC website. As a result I'm asking the Pinside medical experts for some advice (lol).
My wife tested positive for Covid using an at home antigen test last Wednesday (the 22nd), she had symptom's as early as late Tuesday (21st). She's fully vaccinated and boosted yet still got it and had mild to strong symptoms during the first few days (the 24th and 25th were the worse). From the time of the positive antigen test on Wednesday to today it's been 9 days, 10 days tomorrow (1 day longer if we count from symptoms on Tuesday). She had positive result backed up by a PCR lab test last Thursday.
So here's my question. We were planning to see some family this Saturday and Sunday. At that point she will have been at or over the 10 day isolation period. The CDC recently changes the isolation period to 5 days if symptoms are resolving and no fever for 24 hours. My wife thinks she may have had a fever on Christmas eve but definitely not since then. However, she's still has a lingering regular cough and just today (the 30th) still tested positive using another at home antigen test. She's going to re-test on Saturday using another at home test. From what we read she can have a lingering cough and test positive for weeks but is no longer infectious after 10 days (even shorter based on below). So finally my question lol, should we be fine seeing family over the weekend even if she still tests positive past 10 days (having been fully vaccinated + boosted) with a lingering cough? Also, I'm fully vaccinated + boosted and while wearing a mask inside the house during all of this have and continued to test negative. I can't find an answer for this exact scenario.
Updated CDC isolation guidelines
"Given what we currently know about COVID-19 and the Omicron variant, CDC is shortening the recommended time for isolation for the public. People with COVID-19 should isolate for 5 days and if they are asymptomatic or their symptoms are resolving (without fever for 24 hours), follow that by 5 days of wearing a mask when around others to minimize the risk of infecting people they encounter. The change is motivated by science demonstrating that the majority of SARS-CoV-2 transmission occurs early in the course of illness, generally in the 1-2 days prior to onset of symptoms and the 2-3 days after."
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s1227-isolation-quarantine-guidance.html

Quoted from Lamberger:

Looks like that scientist doc/vax maker had a pretty close prediction of this happening from a year ago.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/29/who-warns-vaccine-resistant-covid-variants-could-emerge-amid-pandemic.html
https://www.foxnews.com/media/covid-vaccines-pandemic-end-will-cain-podcast
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/12/pandemic-vaccinated-two-studies-show-new-evidence-covid-19-vaccines-cause-illness-prevent/

Quoted from roffels:

and studies have shown both the valved n95s and the cloth masks leak just as much air.

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Question for ya guys as I can't find 100% clear information online or the CDC website. As a result I'm asking the Pinside medical experts for some advice (lol).
My wife tested positive for Covid using an at home antigen test last Wednesday (the 22nd), she had symptom's as early as late Tuesday (21st). She's fully vaccinated and boosted yet still got it and had mild to strong symptoms during the first few days (the 24th and 25th were the worse). From the time of the positive antigen test on Wednesday to today it's been 9 days, 10 days tomorrow (1 day longer if we count from symptoms on Tuesday). She had positive result backed up by a PCR lab test last Thursday.
So here's my question. We were planning to see some family this Saturday and Sunday. At that point she will have been at or over the 10 day isolation period. The CDC recently changes the isolation period to 5 days if symptoms are resolving and no fever for 24 hours. My wife thinks she may have had a fever on Christmas eve but definitely not since then. However, she's still has a lingering regular cough and just today (the 30th) still tested positive using another at home antigen test. She's going to re-test on Saturday using another at home test. From what we read she can have a lingering cough and test positive for weeks but is no longer infectious after 10 days (even shorter based on below). So finally my question lol, should we be fine seeing family over the weekend even if she still tests positive past 10 days (having been fully vaccinated + boosted) with a lingering cough? Also, I'm fully vaccinated + boosted and while wearing a mask inside the house during all of this have and continued to test negative. I can't find an answer for this exact scenario.
Updated CDC isolation guidelines
"Given what we currently know about COVID-19 and the Omicron variant, CDC is shortening the recommended time for isolation for the public. People with COVID-19 should isolate for 5 days and if they are asymptomatic or their symptoms are resolving (without fever for 24 hours), follow that by 5 days of wearing a mask when around others to minimize the risk of infecting people they encounter. The change is motivated by science demonstrating that the majority of SARS-CoV-2 transmission occurs early in the course of illness, generally in the 1-2 days prior to onset of symptoms and the 2-3 days after."
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s1227-isolation-quarantine-guidance.html

Quoted from swampfire:

I went to a Walgreen’s a few days ago to get some meds for my wife, who’s still sick but recovering (COVID test came back negative, which was a relief). Anyway, I had a cold so I was wearing a mask. I sneezed several times in my mask, and it was wet and disgusting, but I kept it on until I left. Meanwhile, a woman 4 feet from me REMOVED HER MASK TO SNEEZE, wiped her nose and then put the mask back on, like it was the most natural thing in the world. Ugh!!

Quoted from roffels:

A good chart to help folks understand mask efficacy - if you're concerned about catching or spreading COVID, consider upgrading your masks to n95s. If one person has covid and and all parties are wearing only cloth masks, it would only take 26 minutes of shared air to infect the other person.

Quoted from swampfire:

I went to a Walgreen’s a few days ago to get some meds for my wife, who’s still sick but recovering (COVID test came back negative, which was a relief). Anyway, I had a cold so I was wearing a mask. I sneezed several times in my mask, and it was wet and disgusting, but I kept it on until I left. Meanwhile, a woman 4 feet from me REMOVED HER MASK TO SNEEZE, wiped her nose and then put the mask back on, like it was the most natural thing in the world. Ugh!!

Quoted from Mr68:

I'm in day 5 snice my symptoms first began and my Covid has escalated. My doctor was concerned enough that yesterday he arranged for me to go to the hospital for Monoclonal Antibody Therapy. I drove myself.
They gave me 4 injections of whatever and held me there for a 60 minute observation. One injection into each arm and two injections into my abdomen.
I say whatever because I'm so sick I didn't care if they injected me with horse manure.
* I'm a bit of a control freak in my life and this makes me feel uncomfortable to give in like this. But things are moving pretty quickly.
I've lost all taste and smell and last night I was awakened at 2:30 AM as my tongue felt like it was on fire. Not painful enough to call a doctor but painful enough to prevent sleeping. It's now subsided but I've not read anything before about tongue pain which I found to be strange.
I'm fortunate to have a steambath in my home and it seems to give me breathing relief. Opens up my bronchial tubes and loosens those lung biscuits for ejection.
This probably all sound dramatic and is. But despite my heightened misery I feel pretty stable and I don't believe I'm going to get any worse. I just gotta ride it out.

Quoted from Mr68:I'm in day 5 snice my symptoms first began and my Covid has escalated. My doctor was concerned enough that yesterday he arranged for me to go to the hospital for Monoclonal Antibody Therapy. I drove myself.
They gave me 4 injections of whatever and held me there for a 60 minute observation. One injection into each arm and two injections into my abdomen.
I say whatever because I'm so sick I didn't care if they injected me with horse manure.
* I'm a bit of a control freak in my life and this makes me feel uncomfortable to give in like this. But things are moving pretty quickly.
I've lost all taste and smell and last night I was awakened at 2:30 AM as my tongue felt like it was on fire. Not painful enough to call a doctor but painful enough to prevent sleeping. It's now subsided but I've not read anything before about tongue pain which I found to be strange.
I'm fortunate to have a steambath in my home and it seems to give me breathing relief. Opens up my bronchial tubes and loosens those lung biscuits for ejection.
This probably all sound dramatic and is. But despite my heightened misery I feel pretty stable and I don't believe I'm going to get any worse. I just gotta ride it out.

Quoted from ForceFlow:

Unfortunately, I see this behavior all the time with people sneezing and coughing.
I understand that people think it's an odd or gross sensation to keep the mask on while sneezing or coughing, but that's what the darn thing is there for
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If you make a mess inside your mask, just put on another one. I'm sure most people have multiple masks at this point that they cycle through.

Quoted from ForceFlow:

Unfortunately, I see this behavior all the time with people sneezing and coughing.

I understand that people think it's an odd or gross sensation to keep the mask on while sneezing or coughing, but that's what the darn thing is there for

Quoted from swampfire:

I went to a Walgreen’s a few days ago to get some meds for my wife, who’s still sick but recovering (COVID test came back negative, which was a relief). Anyway, I had a cold so I was wearing a mask. I sneezed several times in my mask, and it was wet and disgusting, but I kept it on until I left. Meanwhile, a woman 4 feet from me REMOVED HER MASK TO SNEEZE, wiped her nose and then put the mask back on, like it was the most natural thing in the world. Ugh!!

Quoted from ForceFlow:

Unfortunately, I see this behavior all the time with people sneezing and coughing.
I understand that people think it's an odd or gross sensation to keep the mask on while sneezing or coughing, but that's what the darn thing is there for
If you make a mess inside your mask, just put on another one. I'm sure most people have multiple masks at this point that they cycle through.

Quoted from BrianJ1337:

Should we advocate for overweight people to not get medical treatment? They’re the ones who are most susceptible to severe infection from covid. Maybe lose their jobs since they don’t value life like I do?

Nope, it’s America. You can eat or smoke yourself to death that’s your choice. When it comes to this pandemic your choice in getting vaccinated is a choice for you, you’re not saving anyone else but yourself since it’s a leaky vaccine.

Quoted from DaveH:

This is a dumb argument. If someone is fat, they won’t spread that to me unless they force feed me. I can’t catch it. It doesn’t impact my health. How do you still not understand the difference between that and a deadly respiratory virus?

Quoted from cottonm4:

What studies? You might as well say, "everybody has been talking", or "they said".
I studies I have read (CDC) say otherwise.

Quoted from 7oxford:

The studies this table is based on is pre delta and omicron. Omicron is so contagious, 3 layer cloth masks are practically useless. Would like to see new data for other mask types.

Quoted from Mr68:

I'm in day 5 snice my symptoms first began and my Covid has escalated. My doctor was concerned enough that yesterday he arranged for me to go to the hospital for Monoclonal Antibody Therapy. I drove myself.

Quoted from JimB:

Agree. I’ve yet to see coughing people around me even wear a mask. I just don’t get why people actively coughing can’t put a mask on.

Quoted from sven:

Though I hardly agree with anything BrianJ posts, not in this post where he mentioned this overweight thing as well, I must say I'm having a hard time of dismissing this point as complete bullshit. Quite a part of the to be vaccinated or not discussion is about healthcare capacity. In that department I think his point IS one that should be discussed: if we say 'the unvaccinated are causing the normal healthcare for some part impossible at the moment', I think that's true. And I also think it's really not wise to not get vaccinated, for a big part because of the problems it brings for hospitals. BUT I think saying 'some other people are also taking up more space/time/money than they would if they made other choices' (no drinking, smoking, eating too much and exercising too little) is also true. I don't want a world where we don't help those that don't live perfect.
Don't get me wrong:
- I don't get the not wanting to get vaccinated at all and I do think acting like that is more thinking about yourself ('I'm not afraid I'll suffer, for I'm healthy') than about the big picture (way less hospitalisations and all the problems that it brings direct and indirect).
- Besides the bigger picture there are also some of those who think they'll be fine, for they are healthy, but have bad luck and still have a lot of problems or die even though they were indeed healthy...it happens, and I think it happens more than the convinced 'I believe in my imune system' people think.
- I think the term 'leaky vaccine' is incredibly wrong, and (sorry Brian) even very, very stupid if you just look at all the proof of how much it helps.
- I think taking up too much hospital capacity IS something that contradicts 'you’re not saving anyone else but yourself'.
- But I do also think in the discussion we shouldn't dismiss this point Brian mentions here as complete bullshit: the 'you're taking up capacity that would not have been necessary' could be said for people who make unhealthy choices as well.
I don't agree with Brians statement, but I think we need to be carefull for when to say 'that's just complete bullshit, for your source or you reasoning isn't right' and 'I really don't agree, because I think that ....'
DaveH: on the vaccinated so less chance of infection part I do agree. And I think taking a vaccine that's proven to have way less chance of complications than the chance of getting covid and getting complications because of that, should be a no brainer for everyone. The unkown (very) long term? Well, there's no reason to believe there are bad long term effects because of the vaccine, and there is reason to believe there are long term effects of covid, so....

Quoted from Mr68:

I'm in day 5 snice my symptoms first began and my Covid has escalated. My doctor was concerned enough that yesterday he arranged for me to go to the hospital for Monoclonal Antibody Therapy. I drove myself.
They gave me 4 injections of whatever and held me there for a 60 minute observation. One injection into each arm and two injections into my abdomen.
I say whatever because I'm so sick I didn't care if they injected me with horse manure.
* I'm a bit of a control freak in my life and this makes me feel uncomfortable to give in like this. But things are moving pretty quickly.
I've lost all taste and smell and last night I was awakened at 2:30 AM as my tongue felt like it was on fire. Not painful enough to call a doctor but painful enough to prevent sleeping. It's now subsided but I've not read anything before about tongue pain which I found to be strange.
I'm fortunate to have a steambath in my home and it seems to give me breathing relief. Opens up my bronchial tubes and loosens those lung biscuits for ejection.
This probably all sound dramatic and is. But despite my heightened misery I feel pretty stable and I don't believe I'm going to get any worse. I just gotta ride it out.

Quoted from roffels:If everyone wore valved n95s or better, this pandemic would be over.

Quoted from Mr68:

This probably all sound dramatic and is. But despite my heightened misery I feel pretty stable and I don't believe I'm going to get any worse. I just gotta ride it out