Science can be wrong or tainted. Remember when the sugar industry paid off science to ensure sugar wasn't to blame for causing cancer and disease?

I have never really understood people who blindly believe science when they don't know where funding comes from, never read a scientific paper, can't name a single scientist, etc.

The problem with covid is there are two types of people: those who care way too much about others and those who only care about themselves.

Here’s an analogy for you. You are a young fit college track athlete. You have a couple of puffs on a cigarette. A cigarette contains 100s of toxins. Those toxins cross from your lungs to your blood. Your liver and kidneys then break down those toxins and excrete them.

Do you really think two puffs of a cigarette is going to cause you to become infertile, have heart disease, brain damage or cancer 10 or even 30 years later?

No it will not and nor will two shots of a vaccine, because you body has already broken down and excreted the vaccine contents.

Be scared if the unknown if you want to, but I gave up believing there was a bogey man under the bed a long time ago.

SOLD ! At 800,731

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CNN uses a different figure that is always a little bit less than the worlometer.com site.

This is from when Covid first came on in the U.S. in March 2020, back when we had it under control and there was nothing to worry about as we only had 13 deaths back when the "don't worry" statements were being bandied about.

So, from someday in March 2020 to today, November 29,2021, per worldometer.com, 800,731 U.S. citizens have succumbed to Covid.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

The numbers I have been reading lately is that there are some who are looking for 1.1 million U.S. citizens to pass on.

==========================================================================

" Grandma died from Covid". Fortunately, she kept her will up to date. The real estate market is on fire and the grandkids are selling grandma's estate and cashing in. No wonder no one has gone back to work. Granny's retirement plan kicked in.

Yeah sorry. Your whataboutisms be damned, I’ll side with the side of real science. The stuff that has an actual track record of improving our quality of life to levels thought unimaginable merely a century ago.

Let’s talk about getting paid though, and why the talking heads push a certain narrative trying to stay in their audiences good graces and keep the gravy train rolling. $$$$$

99-to-1 doctors agree about CV-19? Ha-ha-ha!! Even Fauci does not agree with Fauci. Again, I encourage you to seek different sources for your news feed.

95% of scientists agree on climate change? Even funnier. Easy question for an uneducated knob like me that you should be able to quickly answer: given the five (5) prior ice ages that have occurred (and occurred without mankind’s assistance), please identify the root cause for the lowered temperatures and the root cause for the increasing temperatures, and explain why we are not in the middle of one of those temperature cycles right now.

Two or is it three? Or four? Or yearly forever? Also that's why they put filters on cigarettes bruh! Lol

For what it’s worth, the wife and I had little to no reaction to the booster other than arm soreness and a bit of fatigue.

Context: ages 47 & 49, Moderna all 3 shots. The wife had a REALLY rough time with her 2nd shot, while my reaction was mild with both

Pfizer booster was the easiest of all 3 shots so far. Arm hurt alittle first day then nothing back to normal. No side effects at all.

Just got my 3rd hit of Pfizer. Had no issues with shots 1 nor 2. Hoping for the best with this one.
I think the worst part was the damn line at the clinic.
Only 3 cashiers, line out the door and only 5 masked folks in site, I was 1 of them.
But in light of the possible alternatives, meh, 1 hour is worth it.

I’d say it’s a pretty safe bet that the majority of the long haulers fall into the same group of people with high risk factors. I agree with ZombieKing. If you feel you’re extremely low risk then why take the risk of putting something into your body that even though the current data looks good the long term data may tell a different story especially with the possibility of ongoing boosters. In the 1950’s the current data on Thalidomide probably looked good and look what happened there. I am not anti-vax either, high risk people and anyone else that wants it definitely should get it if it gives them a fighting chance.

No, but I was only 3 years old at the time.

Only yesterday, my wife pointed out to me an article which said broccoli and olives could protect one from Covid. For the record, I did voice my scepticism.

Of course we don’t know for certain that the COVID vaccine won’t have long-term effects. Then again we also don’t know for certain whether COVID itself will have long term effects. Based on the current data (hundreds of millions vacccinated with minimal short term effects, vs numerous reports in COVID patients of “long haul” symptoms lasting months+) the smart money would seem to be on the vaccines. As in most real-life scenarios, we have to make decisions with limited and incomplete data.

Actually that's false. That's not a safe bet at all. I could bring you to my clinic and introduce you to several young, healthy people with persistent COVID symptoms months after they "recovered". Hell, I literally spoke just today with a 33 year old man with no other issues who has a persistent cough 6 months post infection.

That's the problem, people think what they believe to be true is a "safe bet" when it's actually completely false.

I’ve posted a few times about the long lasting effects of my “mild” case from Feb 2020. Just yesterday I was struggling to catch my breath after walking briskly up one flight of stairs. I run around 10-12 miles a week these days, so I’m not out of shape. I just can’t handle hills and stairs the way I could pre-Covid. There’s a WIDE range of outcomes that fall under “recovered”, and even what seems like an incredibly mild leftover symptom sucks massively if you’re the person experiencing it.

Not being political or taking sides here.

Just an interesting fact that I now personally know more vaccinated people with Covid than unvaccinated. Just found that interesting. There is no one answer for anything

Chris

In all fairness I did say the majority of long haulers, not all. There are exceptions to every rule. They may be otherwise healthy but do they smoke cigarettes or pot, do they vape? Those habits would have compromised their lungs in the first place and given them a more severe case to recover from.

Ok, for no good reason, I’ll ask…

What do you consider to be a good news feed for information about Covid news? Where are these tombs of truth located? You are asking people to change their news feed, please give specific examples and main links you recommend changing to.

What I find interesting is roughly 75% of adults in the USA has at least one risk factor and 40% have two or more…and yet the perception appears to be just the opposite.

“I will be fine” is fast becoming the new “hold my beer”. (I kid I kid).

I've talked to a couple friends/family over Thanksgiving that have "recovered" from Covid. They all had a congested sounding cough and get fatigued pretty easily. They still have lingering side effects after getting Covid.

I would not make that bet. Two people I know got hit hard. One was a runner, late 20s, her lungs got wrecked and she can't any more. The other young, good diet, suffers from brain fog and derealization long after getting infected.

Heart issues in men would like to have a word with you.
Guillain-Barre syndrome too.

Easier for cases to double when you start at a low number, but keep an eye on the rate in SA. Delta wave has come and gone. This could be the omicron wave.

For comparison
SA doubling every 3-4 days
Portugal/Spain (delta) is at 12-14 days

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I think your quote is messed up. The main portion of what you quoted was not from me.

Talking in generalities and making up hypotheticals to support your narrative.

I mean they may have had a ham sandwich the Thursday before catching the covid. That influx of nitrates certainly could be contributing to their long hauler problems. Maybe they attended a bonfire or badly burnt a grilled cheese prior to. Could be anything really.

Luckily every anti-vaxxer is vegan, works out six days a week, don't smoke or drink, isn't old, and doesn't have any family members over the age of 70 to worry about either. They also know that true news comes from Reddit, social media, and millionaire podcasters and political pundits that don't have any motivation at all to continue to say only the things their listeners want to hear even if they don't believe it themselves. They know it's a personal choice and nothing else. We're not in this together. It's every man, woman, child and old fart for themselves.

This is not surprising, just a bad side-effect of using absolute numbers vs. percentages. As more people are vaccinated there will naturally be more cases of breakthrough infections. Also, breakthrough infection is not the same as breakthrough disease. Covid vaccines are still great at keeping people out of the hospital.

I couldn't find an article I read previously regarding breakthrough percentages vs. absolute numbers. While searching I found this related article which I thought was interesting:

[The Washington Post] Perspective | Covid misinformation spreads because so many Americans are awful at math
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/math-covid-vaccinations-jeremy-mcanulty/2021/11/12/bfe89018-417f-11ec-a3aa-0255edc02eb7_story.html

What kind of numbers are we looking at here?

Do you know 30 or 40 with Covid or is it more like 1 or 2?

Again, if you are worried about cardiac issues in men what you really should be worried about is keeping those same men from getting COVID. The incidence of pericarditis and myocarditis in COVID patients is way higher than with the vaccine.

Take any vaccine side effect you want and the risk from COVID is higher.

And I again would say that your statement that the “vast majority” of patients with persistent symptoms from COVID are high risk patients is simply not true.

Just asking that you reconsider where your information is coming from. You have people who actually treat COVID patients telling you one thing and you are making assumptions based on information you are getting from sources who don’t actually treat patients or have first hand knowledge of which patients have longer term symptoms.

There is a significant percentage of people who are young and healthy pre-COVID who have significant issues for months after recovery. Heck it seems as if there is one on this forum who exercises on a regular basis yet still has long term COVID respiratory issues. It’s real and it can happen to anyone who gets COVID.

Personally over the last 3 or 4 months, I know 13 people who have gotten covid after being fully vaccinated to the point that they needed medical attention. My aunt and uncle are both in the hospital now, and are not doing well, and have had both the Pfizer vaccinations and booster. They are older, and she had underlying conditions, but he does not.

I am sure there are more that are unvaccinated that have gotten it too, but I am just going based on people I know. I know of 2 who are are unvaccinated in my circle who got covid and have since recovered.

Not huge numbers, but just found it interesting.

I hope they both recover.

My grandparents, in their 70’s, both had it a few weeks ago and were able to recover at home. They are vaccinated.

My grandpa’s younger brother, in his 60’s, caught it a year ago while in Florida for Winter and didn’t make it. No underlying health conditions besides the natural aging process. Obviously he was not vaccinated since it was not available then.

13 is a few. This has to be the breakthrough cases that have been getting some press over the last few weeks.

You/they should be thankful they were vaccinated. Otherwise, it could have been ventilator time for them and lets' face it, going on the ventilator is not something any sane person wants.

Well, there is that, too. Some unvaxed people manage to survive.

You seem to know them all.

Doc - sorry if this has been covered. What's the thought on booster shots for someone just getting over Covid?

Had J&J 3/21 and am scheduled for Moderna booster + Flu shot this Friday. Wife (Moderna), tested positive Sunday with home and lab tests and has been assigned work from home until next Monday. She and I shared the same symptoms although since I already work from home I did not get tested and just planned to isolate until next week. Kids got lab tests and came back negative, Thanksgiving guests that were concerned all took home tests and came back negative.

Unfortunately my uncle passed away this afternoon. Trying to get information on my aunt now.

Those two conditions are linked to the covid 19 vaccination.

So here’s my best knowledge on post-COVID vaccination:

1. If you get monoclonal antibody therapy you have to wait three months before getting vaccinated.
2. If you don’t get monoclonal antibodies then you can get vaccinated within the first three months. I usually tell my patients to wait for a couple months though because your natural immunity will be high for several months anyway and I think the risk of side effects from the vaccine are higher that close to a prior infection. The side effects most people have to vaccination are your immune system doing its job against the spike protein. The fatigue, mild fever, muscle aches, etc are what I’m referring to. The headache seems to be more vaccine specific.
3. If you have prior COVID your immunity is about the same as if you were double vaccinated and never had COVID. However if you had COVID AND get vaccinated that is called hybrid immunity and is much better.

Hope that helps, if you have any other questions feel free to ask here or send me a PM.

Preliminary data, subject to change but:

Pfizer triple vaxxed holding up well against infection and against severe disease.

omicron 1.3 more transmissible compared to delta

Unvaxxed have a 2.4 times greater chance of developing serious symptoms compared to delta.

…but at the same time in the same article they say:

“ Before entering isolation, the doctor had performed several cardiac catheterizations and attended at least two other large events. He was also in contact with the second cardiologist, in his 70s, who is now also infected with the variant.
Both doctors were fully vaccinated with three shots of the Pfizer corona vaccine.”

https://m.jpost.com/health-and-wellness/coronavirus/covid-1st-data-about-vaccine-efficacy-against-omicron-expected-tuesday-687392

Still too early to know for sure but possible good news:

https://m.jpost.com/health-and-wellness/coronavirus/covid-1st-data-about-vaccine-efficacy-against-omicron-expected-tuesday-687392/amp

“In the coming days we will have more accurate information about the efficacy of the vaccine against Omicron, but there is already room for optimism, and there are initial indications that those who are vaccinated with a vaccine still valid or with a booster will also be protected from this variant,”

I would encourage everyone when diagnosed to get the monoclonal antibodies quickly as they help tremendously. The vaccinated as I was, as well as the unvaccinated are getting this variant. The antibody infusion that I had Monday morning made a substantial difference within 24 hours. With this virus the question is not if you will get it, it is when you will get it ,do not take chances , get the antibodies and the effects will be drastically reduced.

This is just ridiculous. I made a point saying that smoking would put you in a higher risk category and possibly make your recovery time longer and more difficult. How is that hypothetical? Making a mockery of it with your crazy analogies is pretty much you saying that smoking doesn’t have a negative impact on your health. I can’t believe ten people actually upvoted that post. Actually in this thread I do believe it.

For those that (for some insane reason) don’t like Futurama…how about some Transformers

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Happy to report no issues from booster, might have had a very slight head ache last night but thankfully, seems the booster and I agreed.
So curious about how others have faired, specially when does 1 nor 2 had a reaction but the booster did. A very curious thing.

Be well everyone!

I am sorry for your loss.

I for one upvoted it for the second paragraph, which you left out. I thought it was funny, but I guess I am weird like that.

It is a bit of a tricky situation sometimes when I like a section of a post…do I upvote or move on…oh the dilemma.

As of this morning my aunt was still with us. Her oxygen is at 70%, she is on a morphine drip and not awake. Hoping for the best but mentally preparing for what seems inevitable.

Chris

That may be what you were trying to say in response to pinball_gizzard stating that healthy people were having persistent symptoms, but it came across as something else. It sounded more like you were saying that there must be something else going on for those healthy people to continue to have issues, like they were smokers, etc... That's why the downvotes.

They’re also linked to COVID and at a much higher rate.

What part of that don’t you understand?

The fact the tech has been around does not mean that *this implementation* wasn't rushed. It absolutely was. The choice of target protein was done quickly. Is the vax dangerous, extremely doubtful. But with a rushed development of *this implementation* of the technology is there a higher chance of unforseen consequences down the line, absolutely. Now a higher chance might be 0.05% vs 0.08%. It still won't be likely, but its more likely. That's the concern a lot of people have. I'm vaxed, I think you're stupid if you can be and aren't. That does not mean that I, or anyone else, can't have legitimate concerns over the possible unknown effects.

You made no point. You were told (by an actual doctor with real experiences with these people no less) that plenty of people not considered to be in the high risk group can still have long hauler issues. To disregard this, you made up a hypothetical that these "healthy" individuals could actually be smokers etc. when you have no knowledgeable standing to make such assumptions. Why would one even be considered not in the high risk group if they were smokers to begin with?

As I demonstrated, in the same vein, one can make up whatever the hell they want too to try to explain away anything they don't want to hear. It's weak and holds no weight however. Hey, maybe they have cancer and they just haven't found it yet! That analogy isn't crazy, but it's still bullshit because the whole premise of your argument is flawed to begin with no matter what analogy is used.

This falls under the same category as "hey, I'm just asking questions" and "well, you can't prove that it's 100% not possible". "Well maybe they smoked a joint two years ago. You don't know they are not high risk for sure."

Or maybe, just maybe, the virus ran roughshod on a healthy person's lungs and you don't need to be considered high risk to have continued complications.