While ago I just found out that a old friend I have not seen or talked to in a very long time, but I still thought about them a lot, passed from Covid last year.

(I do not know the details yet, but I assume he passed before we had the vaccines available).

And currently a friend just made fun of me for getting a booster shot. Some people will never learn until it is too late.

Just be a man and admit you were wrong…yet again.

Those odds assume a Covid-free world which does not exist.

1 out of every 450~ Americans have died of Covid. Died. Not counting those with “some type of injury” that remain alive. So by your own hypothetical example, you are at least 10x safer in the U.S. with the vaccine than without.

Of course that assumes that the vaccines provide 100% protection which they don’t, so let’s say half of the official deaths were either already vaccinated and died anyways, or are auto accident fatalities (or end stage cancer patients, or those already with one foot in the grave, etc) that just happened to also have Covid. In this example you are still at least 5x safer with the vaccine.

So, using your 1/5000 example, one would need to believe that 91~% of the official deaths are bunk just to make the choice between vaccinated or not a true coin flip. That is the point where hesitation is backed by odds unless I’ve made a huge miscalculation (it’s late).

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna1389

https://www.forbes.com/sites/victoriaforster/2021/08/24/4700-attendees-positive-for-covid-19-after-superspreader-music-festival/?sh=3c26000f34cc

https://nypost.com/article/what-is-a-covid-19-superspreader-event-definition-examples/amp/

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/08/covid-german-super-spreader-event-created-by-poor-ventilation-study-finds

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/super-spreader-event-linked-125-covid-19-cases/story?id=73582726

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2021/sep/09/inslee-expands-mask-mandate-to-large-outdoor-event/?amp-content=amp

https://amp.dw.com/en/coronavirus-digest-euro-2020-final-was-a-superspreader-event/a-58938927

Must be a media conspiracy to not report any Covid at marathons. Guess every reporter and doctor out there are secretly long distance runners.

The 10,000+ claiming injury are claiming SIGNIFICANT injury not a sore arm lol.

Well seeing as my Aunts doctor refused to link her sudden onset dementia and stroke to the 3rd shot she got just two days before it happened, I imagine many won’t be.

I’m 99.8% safe from covid and 100% save from mRNA adverse reactions. I’ll take my chances. Especially since you can still die from covid while “vaccinated”. Too bad we don’t have a real immunization.

You don’t know the long term health effects of the vaccine either.

Imagine telling the thousands of people injured “you’re faking it”. Yikes. https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/melbourne-mechanic-suffers-stroke-two-days-after-pfizer-vaccine-doctors-say-cause-unknown/news-story/9832c32659dce2118dccfb7d68f8ebbd

I could pull up article after article of people who have suddenly died or been injured immediately after vaccination. You cannot tell me it’s perfectly safe at this point without being a liar.

Can you find any Covid reports for the Sturgis motorcycle rally in South Dakota ?

I don’t have any problem admitting I’m wrong, when I’m wrong. In this case, I’m not. I invite you to go back and read the whole stupid debate over marathons. Especially the NYC marathon. The one where you admitted that you yourself had to prove you were vaccinated to participate in it (hint, so did every other person inside with you as you were collecting the thing that allowed you to go to the starting line).

And frankly, you still don’t have a leg to stand on here. Gathering in large herds when you know there is a pandemic and you know as a vaccinated person you can still catch the delta variant of Covid is dumb. It’s that simple. The result of not catching it that day doesn’t make it any less dumb to do.

And as always, you choose to ignore the question I actually asked… seems like a pattern.

I've never been a person to put stickers on my car. After getting my booster shot, I was walking around the store (CVS). I found myself eerily drawn to the 0.0 stickers. It must be a side effect of the vaccine.

Seriously, though, I don't have any problem with those long races, I'm just tired of talking about them, along with some other subjects.

Why are you so insecure about this?

If 90% of irelands adult population is vaccinated why are they locking everything down again and seeing the highest spikes since the height of the pandemic?

Why are more than half of the people in hospital currently vaccinated in Ireland?

Why are we saying this is “effective”?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/17/wearing-masks-single-most-effective-way-to-tackle-covid-study-finds

So that’s a no then. You aren’t willing to put your money where your mouth is.

I’ll be here whenever you want to take me up on the bet.

I’ll say what others say to me when I post studies on ivermectin. “It’s just a meta analysis”.

"Do I follow this correctly? 36,729 studies were screened. 650 were reviewed. 72 met the selection criteria. 35 looked at single interventions and were included in the meta analysis. 3 of these studies had low bias, the others had moderate or severe bias. Am I missing something?

The meta analysis is based on three slightly biased studies?"

https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/qwrht2/mask_wearing_cuts_new_covid19_cases_by_53its_the/
Comments seem to point to that article as being total junk btw.

Darn it Pinside is broken. It is only letting me give one up vote.

Oh no, you had to go there. You know who will be posting a flurry of arguments towards your post. Let me cut to the chase and save that Pinsider some time since we know he will argue that masks do not stop virus spread and then others will argue that masks decrease spread and he will argue back saying that is wrong because masks do not 100% stop spread which we know is not what the article or Pinsiders said in the first place.
insert Broken record emoji

I found this interesting:

FDA asks for 55 years to release data on Pfizer's COVID vaccine

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/317161

The headline is a little misleading, but some good points are raised.

So you're saying that almost 50 percent of the people in hospital are the 10 percent unvaccinated, so if they'd have been vaccinated, the number of people in hospital would have decreased a lot, like 40 percent of all hospitalised? That's pretty darn effective I'd say.

If those 90 percent hadn't been vaccinated, hospitalisation would have been extremely catastrophic.

So let's see....you challenge me to show you news reports of super spreader events.

I then show you news reports of super spreader events, to prove you 100% wrong that they are in fact reported.

Then you say you weren't wrong.

Don't ever stray from the narrative....

I prove DaveH wrong...yet again.....but somehow, I am the insecure one. Whatever.

Show me the spread at these marathons.

You can't, because they don't exist.

I answered your question.....yet again. I can't help the head in the sand mentality.

I would like to get in on this bet too!

More fuckery at Pfizer, can't imagine why anyone would question a big pharma company that's paid out billions in lawsuits. Hmm?

It's really hard to track outbreaks from large events, there generally isn't any follow up with attendees or that level of contact tracing. There was a 300 person dance party, vaccination required, that had 19 confirmed cases after an unvaccinated bartender super spreader passed it along the Delta variant to 19 people that bought drinks from her, they in turn spread it most of their families and some co-workers. My friends attended and caught Covid and their young child ended up getting it too. No bueno. There was the early event of the choir, where almost everyone got it that was in the room. There was the Miami Winter Party that 20 people were infected at and 2 died.

And then there was Sturgis... while they can't document it that well, it's super easy to see what happened if you look at one of those animated Covid maps of the U.S. It takes place Aug 7 – Aug 16, 2020. At first there is just reported a small outbreak of cases from the event, 89. Previously, South Dakota and the surrounding states had very low infection rates. By the end of August there are red zones not only in South Dakota, but spreading out into the surrounding states that the cyclists drove through or went home through like Montana, North Dakota and Iowa. By the end of September those 4 states have the most cases per population rates and you can start to see the infection rate spread to more nearby states. If you watch the animations, it eventually spreads out of South Dakota out through the rest of the country in a new wave of Covid. Map: https://theuscovidatlas.org/map

Linking proof to a bunch of super spreader events to argue in favor of large gatherings is a bold strat.

Well as Ron said, the article is a bit misleading. It’s really the fda and not Pfizer messing around with a FOIA request. The government does this all the time.

Basically, the data needs to be reviewed and redacted before release and the government wants to slow walk it. Like…extremely slow walk it. (500 pages per month until they get to the end…in 55 yrs).

Not saying it’s ok, just trying to explain it a bit.

Sure you can! Just pull your head out, buddy! And maybe let it go?

If 92% are vaccinated and vaccinations aren’t effective, why aren’t 92% of the people in the hospital vaccinated?

While ago while on business, I met a dude that seemed pretty cool, but then he brought up the vax stuff, and his work was sending him papers that he had to get a vax or lose his job.

His excuse was that all of this is political, and these shots should not even be called vaccinations, because vaccinations are supposed to be 100% effective, and these shots are not 100% effective.

He even went on to say that he had been very sick right before the shots were available, and he is high risk (asthma).

I told him that I just had my booster shot, and I still will avoid crowds, I am staying careful, but at least hopefully the shots do offer some protection.

It is amazing all of the people I randomly run into, that seem pretty cool, but refuse to get a shot and have all of these mostly political views for not getting a shot.

All I know is before the shots were available my girlfriend was in the hospital for 5 days with this stuff and she sounded very weak and I was afraid she would not make it.

Then right after that her brother got this stuff, and he was in the hospital for 3 months, and had to go to rehab to walk again, and he still needs a lung transplant.

Just let any politics go, get the shot, and still be careful around crowds, please.

I personally know of a lot of people that have already died from this, and for a while I was in tears thinking I was also losing my girlfriend to this.

And some say this vaccine stuff was rushed, well the final stuff was, but they had been working on it for over 10? years? So not as rushed as some would think.

Please just be careful, and vaccinated or not try to avoid crowds if you can.

I have a husband and wife friends who live in small town hick town Nebraska.

Me: Did you get vaccinated?

She: No. We don't go anywhere or see anyone.

Me: But you just buried your mother. You had family come in from Texas, South Dakota, and Iowa. And you talked with all of these people, correct?

I did not get anywhere.

I think I a starting to look at this as a "teenager syndrome". You know, the 16 year old kid who thinks he is invincible. There are all of these people out there who think it will only happen to the other guy.

Your definition of “efficient” when it comes to a vaccine is much different than mine.

Is it an “effective” messenger therapeutic? Science is still evolving but it seems somewhat effective against Corona but so is zinc and vitamin D.

For a vaccine though? Leaky, can still spread, can still catch, can still die.

They can blame boosters and waning efficiency etc but that just means it’s not effective and is a poor excuse for immunization.

Edit: for those downvoting, honest question. How can you read an article like this and then tell me it’s “effective”. Covid is still 99% survivable without the vaccine.

“The Ottawa Senators Have a 100% Vaccination Rate—and 40% of the Team Has Tested Positive for Covid” - https://www.wsj.com/articles/ottawa-senators-covid-11637123408

Again, you don’t get to make up the definition of a vaccine just because you don’t like the actual definition.

Now, how about that bet? Come on man…I need some easy money.

You specifically said “I’ll take those odds”. I’m offering those odds to you.

How many tdap vaccines did you get? How many measles? Etc…

Point is multiple doses over a period of time, sometimes ongoing, is not new.

Also it bears repeating that the primary goal of the covid vaccines has always been to prevent severe illness. Immunity was a secondary concern.

Oh and to note AGAIN the majority of vaccines do NOT grant 100% immunity.

So yeah, as you have stated over and over again they don’t pass YOUR requirements. Just don’t try and pass off YOUR requirements as the ACTUAL requirements and you and I will be all peas and carrots again.

And cue up the smallpox. If I lived in the States, I'd be asking a lot of questions about the NIH, CDC, FDA. Bunch of keystone cops running a shitshow. In Fauci we trust? Not me.

Zinc and vitamin D... as effective against Covid as the vaccine??

Dude, what world do you live in? Show me one real study that establishes that. Heck, show me a complete crackpot study that establishes that in clear English (not "it is being researched", an actual conclusion).

I'm totally find if you think zinc and vitamin D will protect the world from Covid, but it won't. It's lunacy to say that.

Spoke to my doctor this morning regarding booster shot.

I go Monday after Thanksgiving for it.

Call it what you will, but my experience is up to 5 deaths now of people who I personally knew. Zero of those 5 were vaccinated.

Unfortunately vaccine ignorance and misinformation is spreading to the flu vaccine. There is now a political gap of about 24 points (68% D vs 44% R) in Flu shot uptake. Prior to the pandemic, flu shot uptake was about 55-58% D vs 53-54% R and the gap was only 3 or 4 points and probably nil statistically speaking. The gap for Covid vaccine is about 30 points.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/14/politics/flu-partisan-divide-analysis/index.html

A recent guess:

https://www.reuters.com/world/market-chinas-wuhan-likely-origin-covid-19-outbreak-study-2021-11-19/

So to be clear, you only view a vaccine as “effective” if it blocks 100% of transmissions and is good for a lifetime on a single jab? On that basis, I guess the smallpox vaccine would be the only “effective” vaccine ever invented?

Is it fair to assume you take a pass on the tetanus shot b/c it needs a reup every 10 years, and don’t bother with Advil because sometimes it doesn’t kill 100% of the pain?

Not rushed, just much faster than normal due to virtually unlimited investment. The U.S. government pre-bought vaccines with the understanding that they might not be effective and/or approved. The normal process would be increasingly large studies, then get approval, then start manufacturing. This was all overlapped with the only risk being wasted money.

Finding the optimal (minimal) dose and the optimal timing between doses would have taken a couple more years. Again, this is a cost trade-off and NOT a safety trade-off. Starting with the best information available was the right decision and saved millions of lives with the only downside being we now need booster doses.

I bet most of the team dont have issues like obesity and other high risk health issues you find with regular People.

How many of them have died or need hospitalization.The vaccine doesnt mean you dont get Covid it just means your less likely to need a hospital stay or a visit with the Grim Reaper.

Please tell me you do not have kids.

And what about seatbelts? You can still get injured or die in a car accident so seatbelts are not effective?
The vaccine will not totally prevent catching, spreading or even dying, but it will substantially reduce the odds.

I don't question the NHL team infection numbers. Indoor close contact activities without masks sure increase spreading. But if none of the 40% have a serious infection, the vaccine has worked.