I saw some stat that you have 8 times less chance to get infected from COVID if you have been vaccinated. Sorry, no source for this stat.

It’s like a flowchart of odds, where vaccine gives you benefits at almost every step. Unvaxxed are more likely than vaxxed people to initially catch Covid. They’re more likely to need hospitalization, and they’re more likely to need intubation or to eventually die from Covid. When vaxxed people catch a Covid variant, they can transmit it as easily as a vaxxed person, so at that one specific point, there’s little difference (hence continuing to wear masks, take precautions, etc). But for every other point along the Covid journey, there are measurable benefits to being vaxxed.

The new pill for treatment is very interesting.

1). So much easier to make and administer compared to the IV drugs. Huge potential for locations that cannot support mass IV drips.

2) it messes up the genetic material of the virus. Also, might pass blood barrier, might be able to treat long haul cases. If people have been freaked out about mRNA…

This has bothered me greatly over the last year.
So I dived into History, and saw this pattern repeated.

Simply put, Science depends on Knowledge. People who understand knowledge are numerically low in population percentage. The Masses follow Dogma usually.
The same reason we had Philosophy, with Ancient Greek writers, (300-500 BC) and Earth Science, while many believed Gods threw lightning from the Heavens. Both views in Play.
(Etna erupting, Earthquakes, and famine, blame the immigrants, is all too common historically. Black plaque, and others were also blamed on immigrants, and treated as divine signs)

The Scared, and often ignorant to science, focus more on divine answers, than gain knowledge, and fight
with refusal, and anger, over knowledge, and discussion.

Often Times, the Plagues of the past are instrumental in sociopolitical changes, and religious dogmatic changes.

Except even here there is a difference. By being vaccinated your body doesn't allow the virus to multiply as quickly so there is less viral load to actually transmit.

It’s not so new, it’s just that there’s been very little reporting on it or the other very promising antivirals being developed by Eli Lilly, Pfizer and others. I really believe that people are afraid their promise will stop people from getting vaccinated.

Thanks.

Here is how to get unvaccinated to step up. Have the Federal Govt. announce that here forthewith, the Feds will no longer be paying for any unvaccinated patients hospital bills and ventilators. Going forward, the responsibility for paying medical bills will move to the insurance companies and the unvaccinated themselves.

You think people are screaming now, just wait until the insurance companies are told they will be monetarily involved with their unvaccinated clients. And should the unvaccinated client die, his bills will transfer to his other family members. The hospitals will start crying, too, since the money will dry up.

Sinister? Yep. Diabolical? Perhaps. Would it work? Only one way to find out.

What?

This could go all the way back to the Salem witch trials. What a farce that was.

Blame the immigrants is an old song. All societies need bogeyman to rail against. A common bonding element, if you will allow.

Our problem: TV. TV is geared for the lowest common denominator, geared for the unthinking masses. We won't watch unless we are being entertained. Critical thinking is not part of the TV package. We have morphed into a society that is trained to unthinkably buy buy buy.

Before TV: The snake oil salesman barking out his wares on the street corner.

RE: " The Masses follow Dogma usually."

Agreed.

Got a link for me?

I wish this were true. YouTube/Google knows this will have no effect on their income. They also know that the bulk of our legislators are too old to understand how the Internet works, let alone social media... so this will appease them.

YouTube and Facebook brag about how many posts they take down without telling us how many get left up. Plus, the useful lifetime of these posts is so short that by the time they're taken down they've already propagated everywhere. The only real solution is to prevent them from getting posted in the first place.

Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, and Fox led the charge with misinformation

"Fox News served as a sort of force multiplier for the politicization of the virus. That charge was led by prime-time hosts Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham, both of whom sought to cast the vaccine debate in terms of freedom abridged rather than a public health good. "We're not saying there is no benefit to the vaccine -- there may well be profound benefits to the vaccine," Carlson said over the summer, ignoring the scads of evidence that all three vaccines available for Covid-19 are not only safe but hugely effective in preventing serious illness and death from the virus. Carlson also regularly features anecdotal evidence of a person -- or persons -- with an adverse reaction to the Covid-19 vaccine, absent the context that the vaccine is, in the main, perfectly safe."

I too am fed up and like the stick approach but…it has already been happening and hasn’t changed people’s behavior. It is ineffective, probably because most people that don’t want the vaccine don’t think they will end up in the hospital anyway. So threatening them with huge bills for something they don’t think will happen anyway isn’t very scary.

Then when tragedy hits, it’s just more gofundmes and financially ruined families.

Essentially, we aren’t gonna back end financially punish our way out of this.

Mandates seem like the only carrot or stick that may work. I’m open to discussing alternatives, but it does seem like that’s the corner we have painted ourselves into. The least bad option.

https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/industry-dx/as-insurers-end-grace-period-for-covid-19-hospital-costs-study-estimates-potential

Lol at the person who flagged my graph as “unsafe”.

Well played indeed.

Edit: and apparently a host of other graphs and tables from other posts.

Hard to find it all in one concise place.

I will repost below a good website with lots of links that will help fill in a good chunk of the flowchart.

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-studies-natural-immunity-versus-vaccination

Edit: and here is a study on the variation in antibodies in previously infected folks over time (up to a year), some of which also got vaccinated.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03696-9

Found one: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/cdc-study-shows-unvaccinated-people-are-29-times-more-likely-to-be-hospitalized-with-covid.html

Says unvaxxed 5 times more likely to be infected.

I'm not certain if an infection is a case, but that's what popped up from the August 2021 CDC study.

So there is a yes, and a no for that. The viral load for Delta is much higher, and therefore a breakthrough infection is just as spreadable. However the CDC thinks that the time frame for that higher viral load is shorter if you're vaccinated. And that is obviously because being vaccinated you also will have a higher load of antibodies faster than if you are not vaccinated. The link you requested is here, and a snippet of text from the CDC (emphasis added by me). There is a lot more information there if you would like to read it for yourself.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html

Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. However, vaccinated people appear to spread the virus for a shorter time: For prior variants, lower amounts of viral genetic material were found in samples taken from fully vaccinated people who had breakthrough infections than from unvaccinated people with COVID-19. For people infected with the Delta variant, similar amounts of viral genetic material have been found among both unvaccinated and fully vaccinated people. However, like prior variants, the amount of viral genetic material may go down faster in fully vaccinated people when compared to unvaccinated people. This means fully vaccinated people will likely spread the virus for less time than unvaccinated people.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

The risk for SARS-CoV-2 infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus. Early data suggest infections in fully vaccinated persons are more commonly observed with the Delta variant than with other SARS-CoV-2 variants. However, data show fully vaccinated persons are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2, and infections with the Delta variant in fully vaccinated persons are associated with less severe clinical outcomes. Infections with the Delta variant in vaccinated persons potentially have reduced transmissibility than infections in unvaccinated persons, although additional studies are needed.

----------------------

Those two articles may sound like they are in a bit of contradiction, but they are not. They just reflect most of the current understanding. Studies take time, and Delta hasn't been around that long. However, the benefits of getting vaccinated are crystal clear.

Overall the entire thing is very clear because it's just a respiratory virus, and we know how they work and spread. Sure, the virus itself was "novel", but humans understand how viruses spread. Person A sheds virus and it comes out of them in their breath and water droplets. Person B breaths that in, and the virus replicates in their system and makes them sick and infectious. And as DaWezl was saying, each thing you do that decreases your odds of that spread is good, and the best of that group is vaccinations. Every study of the vaccinations supports that.

Ah yes. Blame it on the mean townies.

Much of the data has been previously linked in this thread, but this visualization is the best I’ve seen lately about the effectiveness of the vaccines.

https://www.jointcommission.org/-/media/tjc/documents/covid19/covid-numbers-perspective-8-30-21.pdf

Now the kids

6FC7A101-1A63-4EED-8DBC-F911BD891190 (resized).png

Covid in kids. Florida data pre and post delta.

with delta:
1 in 200 cases results in hospitalization. (Sub 18 yrs old)
1 in 10000 cases results in death. (Sub 16 yrs old)

2F110E0D-122F-4441-9A4E-404D0CE4D1A3.png6C1EA06B-481B-4E97-BD88-5C1EC721231C.jpeg

The husband of a nurse practitioner who works with my wife died yesterday after 5 weeks in ICU with COVID.

He was 42, slightly overweight but otherwise healthy. Unvaccinated. He leaves behind two kids under the age of 10 and a heartbroken wife.

Delta variant is for real people, I have seen multiple people in their 40s with minimal comorbidites die from Delta.

Please get vaccinated.

Been 2 weeks since the San Francisco marathon.

I’ve searched and searched and have found no reportable spread of covid at the marathon.

Let me guess, it was all due to the first 7 miles of mask wearing right?

Are the people who called this a super spreader event ready to admit they were 100% wrong? Or is being a decent human too hard for people on here?

You still don’t get it. But that’s ok. It would be nice and convenient if the entire pandemic was as simple as you make it out to be, but it isn’t. 2,441 people died of Covid yesterday.

Two thousand four hundred and forty one people in America died yesterday from Covid.

Most of them died because they took risks. They didn’t die in a vacuum. They died in America. Obviously by your cavalier attitude, you are a lost cause.

People die from Covid every day, and you don’t understand how that’s happening. 2,441 dead bodies. Thousands more family members and friends feeling the loss of a loved one. Pandemic.

Whats not to get?

They ran the race. No one got sick.

All you sky is falling type were 100% wrong. Why can't you admit it? Are you that infallible that you can never be wrong?

You can't lock down forever. The virus will never ever leave us. I posted articles showing ANIMALS catching it. Are you going to go out in the wild and start to put masks on all the lions and tigers and bears...oh my. It is constantly mutating. What don't you understand?

You people need to grow up.

The current Delta wave is on the downside. Down 75% in Florida. But according to people on here, it would only go down if masks were mandated. Were masks mandated? Nope. Did it go down? Yep.

Lastly, learn how to read. 2,441 Americans did not die yesterday. Sometimes it takes months, weeks, and days to confirm a covid death. Stop with this yesterday nonsense. The reporting on the deaths have a lag. And it isn't died due to covid, it's died WITH covid. There is a pretty big significance with that difference. An overwhelming majority of deaths are WITH covid, not due to covid. That shows there's a pretty big percentage of the population in this country that needs to be vaccinated, due to other underlying health issues. That's a completely separate argument. I've been to several pinball shows...this community definitely has underlying health issues.

Please describe this cavalier attitude...Do we have vaccines readily available for everyone? Yes or no?

If the answer is yes, time to go back to living life. That's why we have the vaccine. So we can live a normal life. Oh I get it, you want to protect the people who don't want you protecting them. How noble of you to want to control them.

I don't need idiots telling me I need protection from the unvaccinated. My Moderna Vaccine gives me protection from the unvaccinated. Honestly, why is so that incredibly difficult for so many people on here to understand that?

But I get it, I'm always wrong because I look at things like data and facts. Such an inconvenience to look at things like that.

I guess I must not get it either. Oh, and did you enjoy watching college football games today with 90k+ people in the stadium. Where is your outrage in that regard?

Yes if a disease was responsible for killing 1500 of my fellow countrymen everyday and it was preventable, I’d be very supportive too

Yeah we've had rioters down in my neck of the woods where the local murcdoch rag has been blamed by some for the incitement. Most rioters were after a punch on with the police and didn't really know what they were "fighting" for. No support from the majority of Australians when they got caught up at a sacred site where we honor Aussies who died at war. When they started urinating in the middle of the shrine, that was it for the cops and for everyone else. #murdochriots #freedumb

How is the disease preventable?

Is there a vaccine that pretty much stops people from going to the hospital and from dying?

If the answer is yes. Then it’s time to go back to normal.

Any outbreaks at these stadiums?

Nope.

Good point. I guess they can always file for medical bankruptcy.

I was just 7 when Kennedy made his famous phrase: Ask not what your country can do for you; Ask what you can do for your country. And now is all about "my freedoms."

You are absolutely free to read back a few posts from me to get your answer to this exact question. If you’re unable to extrapolate from my 60k answer to your 90k question, let me know.

Here we go with another round of straw man and Covid death # denials. Have 700k people died from Covid? If not what is the number? Show us your science.

No one is advocating for lock downs. You may not have noticed, but things are pretty much wide open. Maybe get out more?

People are advocating for vaccines, vaccine mandates, and other sensible situational precautions like masking while there’s a pandemic still going.

Pretty sure the marathon issue was just a problem with getting a waiver for the stretch through the national park, but you keep treating it like a dumb decision the race committee made that proves some weird non-science anti-masking beliefs you keep hammering.

"Geraldo Rivera Calls Out ‘Vaccinated D–k Heads Who Urge the Unvaccinated to ‘Fight for Their Freedom’"

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/geraldo-rivera-calls-vaccinated-d-014035553.html

"“Open-minded & inclusive, I’m friends with all kinds of people. But as we pass 700,000 #Covid dead, I have zero tolerance for anti-Vaxers,” Rivera tweeted on Saturday.

Rivera went a step further, saying he has particular disgust for “vaccinated d–k heads who urge the unvaccinated to ‘fight for their freedom,’ the mob urging the man on ledge to jump.” That comment may be a particular reference to some of the pundits at Fox News, where over 90% of staffers are vaccinated while its hosts like Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham spread anti-vaccine views on their programs. "

I don't know if this is for real or if it is just to generate clicks for Fox News.

True or false. Every person in the US is eligible to get the vaccine.

New study suggests that mild to moderate covid will result in 7-8 more people per 10,000 will need dialysis or a kidney transplant.

Might not sound like a lot, but it is. We are not equipped to adequately provide this amount of care at this point in time.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-01/painless-silent-organ-damage-seen-in-large-long-hauler-study

Show me the straw man.

San Francisco had a marathon. I was told on here that it should not go on, because it will be a super spreader event.

No one got sick.

As always, I was 100% correct again. And the sky is falling type were 100% wrong.

What exactly am I missing here?

BTW, it’s not exactly healthy to run with a mask on. But science…….right?

12 year olds are not allowed to run marathons.

Is that where you’re going with this?

Here’s some more data you don’t want to see or acknowledge: https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/

It’s for real, and I can see both sides of it. On one hand, you’ve got people who simply don’t want to be told what to do by “the left”. They have to be persuaded by like-minded people in their orbit. On the other hand you have the vaccinated people (like me) who don’t view this as a political issue, and just want to get back to normal as quickly as we can. It’s sad, because a lot of people are literally dying of misinformation and pride.

Stats for my county for the last 30 days comparing vaccinated to not fully vaccinated. Non-vaccinated people are 8 times more likely to test positive for Covid, 41 times more likely to be hospitalized, and 57 times more likely to die.

King County stats Octomber 2021 (resized).png

So they wore masks and no one got sick ? Did the masks work ?

Did I mention anything about a marathon?

What would I not acknowledge about your link? That in only a two week time frame cases in kids under 18 increased 8% on the cumulative total since the beginning of the pandemic? That’s pretty staggering frankly.

That currently kids 18 and under make up a greater % share for positive cases than what they represent as a total of the population? It’s almost like a subset of this group doesn’t have access to the vaccine or something.

Some states are reporting 1 in 50 of these cases requiring hospitalization and your link also acknowledges urgency in needing to understand the long term effects in kids. Present mortality rate is not the only thing at play here.

Just own that only being concerned about yourself and being able to continue your hobbies completely unhindered during a pandemic is a shitty take.

Which Vax is this based on? J&J, Pfizer, or Moderna? Or does it not specify?

Seeing you asked politely, I'd be happy to.

First, let us start with a definition:

A straw man (sometimes written as strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".

This is showing you the straw man. You are taking a discussion about vaccine mandates and going into HIPAA laws.

The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) is a federal law that required the creation of national standards to protect sensitive patient health information from being disclosed without the patient’s consent or knowledge

Obviously proof of vaccination could not possibly be a HIPAA violation, yet that is your strawman argument. You are attempting to divert the discussion towards healthcare law rather than vaccine mandates.

The Court held that the law was a legitimate exercise of the state's police power to protect the public health and safety of its citizens. Local boards of health determined when mandatory vaccinations were needed, thus making the requirement neither unreasonable nor arbitrarily imposed.

The interesting part of your strawman was taking to the the "EVERY CITIZEN". But of course, that was what the decision really was for.

Again, this is a strawman. You are postulating that this is all about control over other people's lives, when it was nothing of the sort. You are attempting to steer the discussion into the absurd in order to avoid the discussion that is happening.

I want to highlight this one as well, because a couple people here are doing it. This is a strawman, and moving the goalposts, and reductio ad absurdum all wrapped up into a nice package. Each time it is used it accompanies grandiose strawmen. Just as many deaths from heart disease, or 90k people packed in a stadium. And each time, it misstates the argument of the other side from you.

I could go on, but I feel I've made my point. And I already know you will disagree with me on this. But I have shown you the strawman, as you requested.

You have absolutely zero ability to prove that no one was infected at the marathon.

Where are the news reports of people getting sick there?

Did you find any? I can't.

I can't go through your whole post. So much nonsense. Not looking to waste my time. But real quick, haven't you said that you want sports, concerts, weddings, funerals, marathons, restaurants, gyms, etc all shut down? If that isn't control, then I don't know what is. Guess that's another word that Webster's needs to update the definition.

I'm just going to straight to the last part.

The goal post set from the start was having a vaccine in order for us to go back to normal life. Vaccine is out. Some people got it. Some people didn't. Time to go back to normal life.

If you don't don't want to live a normal life...then don't live one. Unlike you, I really don't care what you do. If you want to stay locked up in a bunker all day...good for you. Unlike most people on this site, I'm still going to go the gym and run in races. Why? Being healthy is the best defense against diseases. But to demand everyone be locked in a bunker...that's a line that is crossed. Too bad you are incapable of seeing it.

BTW, heart disease is even more preventable than covid and doesn't even require a vaccine or medications.

Sorry. But having kids learning remotely is a real shitty take.

If that's what you think is best for children, then I feel really bad for you.