This topic is closed.
Quoted from DaveH:Actually it very much is a logical fallacy called "reductio ad absurdum". Reductio ad absurdum is a mode of argumentation that seeks to establish a contention by deriving an absurdity from its denial, thus arguing that a thesis must be accepted because its rejection would be untenable. You've used it several times in this thread.
I love that I learn something now and again from my fellow pinball enthusiasts.
Quoted from ForceFlow:Why do you keep bringing up lockdowns? Nobody is saying that except you.
And what you're saying is that 3% of the US population doesn't matter? Just let them all die because you want to go on a crowded run?
What I'm saying is that big crowded events are still fairly high risk when it comes to transmissibility. Smaller events with proof of vaccinations? Pretty low risk.No, that number is misleading.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-970830023526Uh, pandemic.
Mutations happen because people continue to be infected and continue to spread it. Prevent the spread, reduce infections, and you prevent mutations. Prevent the virus from spreading, and it basically burns itself out since it has nowhere to go.
You can’t prevent RNA viruses from mutating. It is what they do.
That’s why I posted the article. It discusses all different kinds of viruses. Smallpox was not an RNA virus. That’s why it’s gone.
I do have a 99.999999% chance of survival if I catch covid. I have the moderna vaccine. I’m young. I’m healthy. I exercise. I take vitamins. I eat vitamin and nutrient rich foods.
Please do not put words in my mouth that 3% of the population doesn’t matter. I donate blood, I’m on the bone marrow donor list, and I donate to various charities because I believe every life matters. Get your facts straight.
You can’t be taking draconian measures for such a small percentage of the population. The problem with your argument, is you refuse to accept the fact that this virus will always mutate…and it doesn’t matter what we do. That is what RNA viruses do. Do the research, which I made it easy by providing the link. It will always mutate. There’s absolutely nothing we can do to change that. I just can’t understand why so many on here refuse to acknowledge and accept that fact.
I just hope the delta variant remains the dominant variant in this country. The drug companies are close to releasing the delta booster (which I will get). Last thing we need, is for another variant to take hold and have the drug companies play catch-up to it.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:Pleaseeeeeeee
Pandemiccccccccc
Quoted from Trekkie1978:There’s absolutely nothing we can do to change that.
Yes there is, and I already explained it. Vaccinating, masking, social distancing all work *in concert* to deny it from getting a foothold.
The problem is, too many people are not doing those things, so it continues to infect, mutate, and spread.
Quoted from DaveH:... "reductio ad absurdum".
Is it wrong that I read that and immediately think of a spell being cast by Harry Potter? 
(And yes, i did actually look it up.) https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reductio%20ad%20absurdum
Quoted from ForceFlow:The problem is, too many people are not doing those things, so it continues to infect, mutate, and spread.
Too right:
Quoted from jfh:Thoughts please.
My wife and I fully vaccinated (Moderna; she just had a booster shot).
We are going to an indoor show (essentially a one man show) in Denver where proof of full vaccination or negative test is required for entry and will both be wearing N95 masks. Don’t know how good the theater’s ventilation system is. Show appears to be almost sold out. How concerned should I be for 2-2.5 hours?
Honestly I've grappled with this. I feel like I'm a hypocrite but aside from not going, wearing an n95 and being vaccinated is the best you can hope for. Bonus if the venue forces masks. I've been to a few shows, and it's been a mix of super uncomfortable (indoor show with hardly any one masked) to vaccinated and forced masked (and I let myself get wrapped up in the music). I've worn my n95s to all shows.
Quoted from Daditude:[quoted image]
"So we get what we had here last week. Which is the way he wants it."
Stop feeding the troll, NOBODY can be this dense and still able to type this himself.
Hey would you look at that, masking in schools works. Not just for the kids, but for the whole community.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0924-school-masking.html
Quoted from alexmogil:Welp, although I knew this was highly contagious and world sweeping, I thought I'd get out of this without losing a family member but not so. I wasn't close *at all* to my uncle on my father's side, but he passed from COVID yesterday. No one is mourning him in my family due to reasons, but still, it's my father's brother.
Amazing. I buried another Uncle this week and some in my family are claiming his total organ failure is somehow not related to his covid diagnosis.
Crazy graph of cases in Kettering, England. 1 in 24 kids ages 10-14 have caught covid in the last week!
Quoted from Oaken:Crazy graph of cases in Kettering, England. 1 in 24 kids ages 10-14 have caught covid in the last week!
[quoted image]
seems that Covid definition might be different in England than lets say zimbabwe
One of my staff at work is sick with Covid right now, he's a break through case. And he was at work not feeling well the day before he tested positive. I have no symptoms and just got tested this morning.
I can tell you what, I'm super glad we were both wearing masks and stood 6 feet apart when talking.
Covid Stats for 9/27/21, these are the rankings of cases per million residents, essentially the states you are most likely to catch Covid in. Tennessee and Florida are working hard to beat out South and North Dakota, which have held onto the most infectious states since Sturgis 2020:
Tl:dr the amount of fraud in the ivermectin studies has exposed a major flaw in how we as a society publish data (basically we assume researchers aren’t out to commit full out no holds barred fraud).
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01535-y
Same author, put in more layman’s terms:
https://gidmk.medium.com/dealing-with-ivermectin-fraud-and-covid-19-efb74bb597fc
Interesting article.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/27/us-vaccine-effort-derailed
I guess without meaningful numbers from Brazil, India, or China, it would make the State of Florida, the worst
place out of all G7, to be for catching Covid....(Give or take data lags).
My brother has recovered after 10 days. He lost his voice for a couple....that was weird.
I'm confused...
According to OldPinGuy's graphic he posted, the Spanish Flu shows 40 - 50 M deaths. But this article says 675,000 for the Spanish Flu.
What am I missing?
Quoted from cottonm4:I apologize. I figured we would be just a little over 700,000 dead. Instead we wind up with 702,978 more deaths. More than died in the 1918 pandemic. More than those who died during the civil war.
[quoted image]
And we have exceeded the 700,000 deaths that the govt. said was going to happen.
Do I hear 800,000 ?
4 days later: 710,757 dead
"A Single Death Is a Tragedy, a Million Deaths Are a Statistic"
--Joseph Stalin
We have gone way beyond tragedy. There too many dying for them to be anything but a statistic. No monuments will be built honoring them. They are slowly becoming a foot note in history.
Quoted from RonSS:I'm confused...
According to OldPinGuy's graphic he posted, the Spanish Flu shows 40 - 50 M deaths. But this article says 675,000 for the Spanish Flu.
What am I missing?
From CDC: "The number of deaths was estimated to be at least 50 million worldwide with about 675,000 occurring in the United States."
Quoted from RonSS:I'm confused...
According to OldPinGuy's graphic he posted, the Spanish Flu shows 40 - 50 M deaths. But this article says 675,000 for the Spanish Flu.
What am I missing?
US deaths vs worldwide deaths.
Quoted from Oaken:Tl:dr the amount of fraud in the ivermectin studies has exposed a major flaw in how we as a society publish data (basically we assume researchers aren’t out to commit full out no holds barred fraud).
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01535-y
Same author, put in more layman’s terms:
https://gidmk.medium.com/dealing-with-ivermectin-fraud-and-covid-19-efb74bb597fc
Thank you, the articles had lots of great links, good reading with good science.
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:From CDC: "The number of deaths was estimated to be at least 50 million worldwide with about 675,000 occurring in the United States."
Right - in the US, we’ve surpassed the Spanish Flu in raw numbers, but not in per-capita numbers (we have about 3x more people now than then). Still, it’s staggering.
I had a group trip with friends to Miami and Grand Cayman for December that's now officially cancelled. Grand Cayman doesn't want to let tourists in and Florida has decided they don't care about safety and have about the highest infection rate currently. This is all because Americans won't get vaccinated, our stupidity baffles me.
The US is now the least vaccinated member of the world’s seven most populous and wealthy democracies, the G7, which includes Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy and Japan.
We've had the greatest DECREASE in life expectancy in the US since WW2. Why the fuck are we still some backwards country of hillbillies that hate science when we should be the greatest country on earth?
Quoted from nwpinball:I had a group trip with friends to Miami and Grand Cayman for December that's now officially cancelled. Grand Cayman doesn't want to let tourists in and Florida has decided they don't care about safety and have about the highest infection rate currently.
We recently got back from a trip to Boston. Folks were pretty good about wearing masks for the flight up, but the flight back to Florida was terrible. Lots of chin diapers and non-stop talking. The flight attendants didn't give an F either. This was Frontier. Next time, I'm just gonna drive...
Quoted from nwpinball:Why the fuck are we still some backwards country of hillbillies that hate science w
Probably because we live in such a devisive world where people put down others which results in them further entenching thier position based on what they then perceive as principal.
/ˈhɪlbɪli/
(plural hillbillies)
(North American English)
[countable] (offensive) a person who lives in the country and is thought to be stupid by people who live in the towns
This is the data I would like to see for the entire country: "Covid Outcomes by Age". I found this for Washington State and I don't see why it wouldn't apply to the entire population. It would be nice to have more granularity, but in the age group 35-64, ~90% of those hospitalized are unvaccinated.
To me this is a clearer statement of the advantage of vaccination than the CDC saying "10X less chance". Mathematically, 10X less doesn't make sense to me.
Quoted from nwpinball:Why the fuck are we still some backwards country of hillbillies that hate science when we should be the greatest country on earth?
That's good question.
Quoted from nwpinball:The US is now the least vaccinated member of the world’s seven most populous and wealthy democracies, the G7, which includes Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy and Japan.
Where did you get this information?
It looks like YouTube (Google ) has decided if it wants to be something more than just watching cat videos, that if it really wants to count for soemthing then maybe it needs to show some responsibility and clean up its act.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/29/tech/youtube-vaccine-misinformation/index.html
" Users who post misinformation about any "currently administered vaccines that are approved and confirmed to be safe and effective by local health authorities and the WHO" will have their videos taken down, and will be subject to YouTube's strike policy and could face removal, the company said in the blog post.
Quoted from nwpinball:I had a group trip with friends to Miami and Grand Cayman for December that's now officially cancelled. Grand Cayman doesn't want to let tourists in and Florida has decided they don't care about safety and have about the highest infection rate currently. This is all because Americans won't get vaccinated, our stupidity baffles me.
The US is now the least vaccinated member of the world’s seven most populous and wealthy democracies, the G7, which includes Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy and Japan.
We've had the greatest DECREASE in life expectancy in the US since WW2. Why the fuck are we still some backwards country of hillbillies that hate science when we should be the greatest country on earth?
I don't understand how vaccination rates relate to infections. I thought it was shown vaccination didn't hinder cases or transmission, just severity?
New research: More than third of COVID-19 patients become 'long haul' cases
According to researchers, among the long-COVID-19 symptoms reported, anxiety or depression was No. 1 (15.49%), followed by abnormal breathing (7.94%), abdominal symptoms (8.29%) and fatigue (5.87%).
"So, they are respiratory, physical things, but there's also brain-related things that are probably because the virus comes in and attacks through the nose, and the nose is part of the brain, really. So, it's not surprising that a lot of cognitive attention, anxiety, depression symptoms follow that," Dr. Suzanne Rybczynski, associate chief medical officer at the Kennedy Krieger Institute.
https://www.wbaltv.com/article/covid-19-long-haul-long-covid-study/37794158
Circling back to immunity via previous infection vs via vaccine, here is some recent data from Oklahoma (via Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding)
Basically, vaccines offer better protection, (and I would like to add a safer way to become protected) vs. infection.
Also, here are some links not directly related to the table but they do have info on natural vs vaccine immunity:
https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-studies-natural-immunity-versus-vaccination
https://hub.jhu.edu/2021/09/10/infection-from-covid-vs-vaccines/
8D8D2FD9-F60F-4D2A-B797-D56BF84D0FB1.jpegYoutube has banned anti-vax misinformation videos.
A death blow to the anti-vax movement?! I can't imagine it continuing at this point since it pretty much depends 100 percent on youtube links.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Youtube has banned anti-vax misinformation videos.
A death blow to the anti-vax movement?! I can't imagine it continuing at this point since it pretty much depends 100 percent on youtube links.
There's always facebook and twitter. Or did those get nuked too?
Quoted from hAbO:New research: More than third of COVID-19 patients become 'long haul' cases
According to researchers, among the long-COVID-19 symptoms reported, anxiety or depression was No. 1 (15.49%), followed by abnormal breathing (7.94%), abdominal symptoms (8.29%) and fatigue (5.87%).
"So, they are respiratory, physical things, but there's also brain-related things that are probably because the virus comes in and attacks through the nose, and the nose is part of the brain, really. So, it's not surprising that a lot of cognitive attention, anxiety, depression symptoms follow that," Dr. Suzanne Rybczynski, associate chief medical officer at the Kennedy Krieger Institute.
https://www.wbaltv.com/article/covid-19-long-haul-long-covid-study/37794158
You can count me among those abdominal issues group. I have stomach and GI issues and have all my damned life. But I’ve had random bad abdominal pain and symptoms I had never experienced prior, since my breakthrough bout in early August.
I did finally get my smell back. It’s not 100% back to normal, but I can smell things generally again.
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