Once again, the Nat'l Parks have a set of rules and the marathon decided to work with in those rules. You can have your marathon. But you have to wear a mask.

By the end of the day, over 700,00 people will have died in this country due to Covid.

Screen Shot 2021-09-23 at 10.18.15 AM (resized).png

Don't like it? Don't run.

I have a 0.0 sticker on my car.

Not exactly. The immune system is complicated. Anti-bodies are one small section of it.

For the original trial participants yes, it was closer to “here take this and we’ll see what happens”. That data then informed scientists of how the vaccines performed over time. That’s what pinball_gizzard was referring to. They had real world data that showed effectiveness over a period of time.

We now have more real world data over longer periods of time in addition to antibody tests.

It’s an evolving imperfect situation, but it isn’t as bad or as simple as a shot in the dark and hope for the best type situation.

This is incredible.

Marathon runners are the real heroes of this pandemic.

So the players who ride in the same bus, shower in the same shower, and sweat all over each other during the game are allowed to live life as normal, but no one else is. Got it.

BTW…NYC Marathon is a professional event. Which, it’s clear you didn’t know that. It pays out around $700,000 in winnings….ever notice the top runners don’t have day jobs? All they do is train.

No comment on the hundreds of charities that raise money through the event? Interesting.

Please just stop. You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.

I don't think anyone really debates that vaccines work. However, those are vaccines, this is gene therapy.

No, it’s not at all what you said. The studies have been DONE. Past tense.

We have confirmatory studies that have been DONE and published. Past tense.

I’m honestly surprised by this question because there has been so much data produced showing vaccines reduce severe COVID symptoms, hospitalization and death that I think you would have to be purposefully ignoring the data to not have heard this.

I've been reading this, and it comes down to this - you wear a mask when you are around others to protect them and yourself. But it's an act of respect to wear a mask and protect your community. The data on all of this is clear. Masks work, they help, and we are in the middle of a pandemic.

To want to run a marathon? Where you will be in a crowd of people all breathing hard, without a mask? My thoughts about someone who would do this run from selfish and ignorant to words I won't say here. You put the needs of others first in a pandemic, and if you cannot do something safely - and I mean safe for others, then you don't do it. Stop whining. Do the right thing for all of us.

But what about the charities?!?!?!

You do realize a marathon is run outdoors, right?

I’m not sure how much more ventilation you can get than being outdoors, but whatever.

If it isn’t safe to be outdoors, then just lock everyone in their house and don’t let them out ever again. Cause as long as this virus mutates, which it will, since it’s an RNA virus, we will never ever be able to get rid of it. Can’t lock people inside forever. It’s not feasible or healthy.

If your ultimate goal is protect others, never leave the house.

This standard of protecting people some of you are preaching, is unattainable. World isn't perfect, nor will it ever be.

I was going to. I offered to. I even said I'd let you have the last word, as long as it didn't require a response or was a lie. Sigh.

What part of bubble didn't you understand?

Pandemic. People dying.

You should be supporting charities and those in need externally to any event.

I disagree with you. I have a different point of view from you. I can help sum it up for you.

Me: People should be careful during a deadly pandemic to prevent it from getting worse and more people dying.

You: Everything I tried to write to sum up your opinion was inflammatory. They all sounded really selfish, so I didn't try to.

And that is enough from me on the subject of masks in marathons. Good day sir.

Q? Is that you??

As for vaccines being gene therapy - this has been floating around the social media arena for a while mainly by anti-vaccers.

Vaccines that use mRNA technology are not gene therapy because they do not alter your genes. Gene therapy involves making deliberate changes to a patient’s DNA in order to treat or cure them. mRNA vaccines will not enter a cell’s nucleus that houses your DNA genome. There is zero risk of these vaccines integrating into our own genome or altering our genetic makeup.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-mrna-gene/fact-check-mrna-vaccines-are-distinct-from-gene-therapy-which-alters-recipients-genes-idUSL1N2PH16N

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/03/17/covid-19-mrna-vaccines-are-not-gene-therapy-as-some-are-claiming/?sh=25e65bd63d20

https://www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/blog/why-mrna-vaccines-arent-gene-therapies/

Tell the "charities" to go lean on the govt. officials and beg to have the masks taken away.

How about this: If the marathon asked to move to Florida I'm guessing Desantis would say, " come on down."

And what is it with Florida, anyway. Last year, when all of the New Yorkers were heading south I remember reading about Florida officials blocking the interstate so no one could enter the state.

Cancel culture not allowed on pinside. Stop looking at my previous posts. People are allowed to like my clever posts. You shouldnt resort to shaming people . thats why people with similar thoughts to me keep them to themselves.

How's Israel doing these days?

It’s not gene therapy in that no DNA is altered. Gene therapy involves trying to alter DNA to treat genetic disease.

mRNA vaccines do not alter DNA.

Explain the gene therapy link for me if you don’t mind.

You may have misunderstood what I was trying to say perhaps because I worded it wrong by saying natural immunity. I was responding to a post asking why the CDC won’t recognize anti-bodies created naturally by your own immune system from actually having the virus equally effective as vaccine created anti-bodies. If you get an anti-body test and it shows you have protection, there is no reason it shouldn’t suffice as well as a vaccine card. On the other hand I wholeheartedly believe the strength of your immune system plays a huge role in determining how you will tolerate Covid. The problem is that many of these people touting their immune system probably have no business doing so. Are they smokers? Do they have co-morbidities but under control with prescription drugs? Are they extremely overweight? Heavy drinkers? All these can weaken the immune system but because they don’t have any current problems they think they’re healthy as a horse. You can reference as many of these cases as you want but until you know their life story you don’t know the whole story.

I apologize. I figured we would be just a little over 700,000 dead. Instead we wind up with 702,978 more deaths. More than died in the 1918 pandemic. More than those who died during the civil war.

Screen Shot 2021-09-23 at 8.31.10 PM (resized).png

And we have exceeded the 700,000 deaths that the govt. said was going to happen.

Do I hear 800,000 ?

" Tech billionaire: Facebook is what's wrong with America "

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/23/tech/facebook-benioff-disinformation/index.html

" Some of these social media companies, especially Facebook, you can see that they don't really care that their platform is filled with all of this disinformation," Benioff said."

" The tech billionaire called for Congress to crack down on Facebook's disinformation problem. "

I couldn't agree more. I can't stand Facebook.

I like that about them.

No marathons=no charities. Sorry.

Your “clever” post was deleted by the moderators and I had nothing to do with it. FYI, everyone's posts are here forever to read. If you post something that is universally rejected and against Pinside rules who's fault is that?

Pinside loves to remember posts and has a dedicated "Best of Pinside" threads —->

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/best-of-pinside-threads

No no, the teachers are the real heroes.

Ha ha ha ha! You are joking, right?

Thoughts please.

My wife and I fully vaccinated (Moderna; she just had a booster shot).

We are going to an indoor show (essentially a one man show) in Denver where proof of full vaccination or negative test is required for entry and will both be wearing N95 masks. Don’t know how good the theater’s ventilation system is. Show appears to be almost sold out. How concerned should I be for 2-2.5 hours?

Prefacing by pointing out I’m not a trained scientist, but as I’ve mentioned before in this thread, I’ve had Covid, so I’ve followed the discussion on natural immunity post-infection closely. Antibodies themselves only show up for maybe 2-3 months max. After that the speculation has been that T-cells retain the info about whether or not you will fight off Covid again. From what I’ve read about secondary infections, this natural immunity is not as consistently effective as the mRNA based immunity—hence all the reinfections we were hearing about in mid-2020. What currently seems to be the most consistently effective is bolstering natural immunity with vaccine-based immunity, although from what I’m reading about the booster shots, that serves a similar purpose.

Someone like me who had alpha would only show antibodies for a very brief time (if at all—not everyone even showed them), so in a scenario where we are willing to lean on antibody tests in lieu of vaccinations, how would we even monitor it? Would the results only be considered valid for 2-3 months while one demonstrates a positive result? What then? The vaccines have a demonstrated and monitored high level of effectiveness for 6+ months PLUS they are demonstrating a significant effectiveness over many of the variants, which is why they are being relied on over just antibody results. Sure, that level isn’t 100%, but it’s far higher than natural immunity on its own.

You were 100% clear.

You want sports to keep going, with no fans, in order for you to have entertainment. BUT, you don’t want anyone else to live life the way they want too.

In case you haven’t realized, the cure to covid has been out and is readily available. These current deaths are 99.999999% avoidable, just by getting vaccinated. It is called personal responsibility and freedom to choose. Anyone who doesn’t get the vaccine, outside of a medical condition, IMO is a f—king idiot.

If you want lockdowns to stop all covid deaths, then you should be consistent and want the following:

660,000 yearly deaths to heart disease.
600,000 yearly deaths to cancer.
160,000 yearly deaths to chronic respiratory disease.
150,000 yearly deaths to stroke.
88,000 yearly deaths to diabetes.

That’s 1,650,000 yearly deaths that are mostly preventable without the need for any drug or vaccine. If you ask any doctor, they’ll tell you: eat fruits, veggies and lean meats; take vitamins; exercise; don’t smoke; don’t drink.

You’re all for locking everyone down. Aren’t you for forced exercise? Banning all unhealthy food? Banning cigarettes? Laws limiting how much one can drink a day? You do realize that will make an even bigger impact than locking down to prevent covid deaths?

Note: not all cancers are preventable. Sometimes, it’s just pure bad luck.

https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/index.html

A healthy lifestyle goes a long way to preventing many early deaths, including covid.

Logical fallacy straw man argument yet again. None of those things are highly communicable infections like covid is.

If only everyone would take the vaccine. But a lot of people still refuse to. So, the infection is still spreading.

No, we're not. What most of us are saying is that clustering together in huge numbers isn't the best idea while the pandemic is still raging.

What?

Those aren't communicable. Covid is. They aren't the same thing.

Healthy people have died from covid. It's a roll of the dice.

LOL, Norm says real heroes are the students!!

In-person Marine Corps Marathon canceled for 2nd year.

https://wtop.com/marine-corps-marathon/2021/09/in-person-marine-corps-marathon-canceled-for-2nd-year/

I can't catch your heart disease.

I can hug you and love on you and I still will not catch your cancer.

You can't breathe. I sorry about that. but I am breathing just fine.

How is your having a stroke going to effect me?

Diabetes? How am I going to catch your diabetes?

OTOH, if you have the flu, a cold, a cough, or Covid, please stay away from me. Because I don't want what you got.

You are all for vaccination. This is a good thing. But way too many people refuse to get vaccinated. So, we get to wear masks.

The best? When you talk about all the money the marathon raises for charities. But you said the marathon promoters cut attendance from 55,000 to 33,000. That means the marathon thought public safety was more important than the extra dollars. And they are following someone else's rules.

What I listed has killed tens of millions more than covid. That isn’t a logical fallacy. That’s looking at over 100 million deaths vs 700,000 deaths. And they are preventable without the need for any drugs.

Last I checked, covid death is 99.99999999999999999999% preventable by getting vaccinated.

Anyone who is unvaccinated and dies with covid, shame on them. They made a choice.

If I promised to donate to charity through an athletic event be it a marathon or swimming or walking event I would still donate if the event was canceled or altered.the donation for an important cause overshadows watching meat run around town.We tried the lockdown but too many refused to let the man tell them how to live so now we still have to mask and be careful.My Brother and I disagree on vax and masking .When I talk to him He says the same baseless bullshit I hear from the my freedoms crowd.People are dying from shots ,masks as he says he heard about this from some other idiot not a doctor.When I see parents yelling at their schoolboard to let them decide on masks at school take a look and listen to these people .They are not capable of an intelligent conversation much less influencing others to decide health issues.I miss going to car shows we raise a ton of cash and donated items for charity.We dont have shows but we still have a drop off for funds and clothes and backpacks for our charities and causes.

It is very much a logical fallacy. A highly contagious communicable virus is completely different than non-communicable diseases and conditions. You can't catch any of those conditions by being in a crowd of people. An immunocompromised person can't catch any of those conditions. Those conditions are treated using completely different methods.

Not everyone. Immunocompromised individuals don't have a choice.

Without vaccinating everyone who is able to be vaccinated, they are still quite vulnerable by no fault of their own.

So, while you are complaining about having to mask up in a huge crowd at a completely unnecessary event, kids and immunocompromised individuals are still very vulnerable. Then on top of that, there are still a large chunk of people who still refuse to vaccinate and mask up for whatever ridiculous reason, who aren't helping the situation at all, and are continuing to spread the virus.

A communicable disease spreads from person to person to person. Due to the unique nature of covid, people can be spreading it for several days before symptoms even start appearing. Then combine that with how unpredictable and indiscriminately it can kill or cause long-term lasting effects, and it's a pretty dangerous virus.

Come on Canada, you are supposed to be better than this.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvzq73/a-get-covid-party-helped-overrun-albertas-icus-report

Maybe some of those reluctant to get vaccinated have been listening to Dr. Gold.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2021/09/23/doctor-spreads-coronavirus-misinformation-simone-gold-watt-dnt-ebof-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/coronavirus/

Sort of looks like she has been bitten by the "I wanna be a rock star" bug.

I said I as not going to link anymore I wish "I had gotten the vaccine" types.

I make exception for this one. Another victim of misinformation. A father. 24 years old. And he is gone.

https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/24-year-old-unvaccinated-father-asks-people-to-get-vaccinated-dies-of-covid-121649221619

Actually it very much is a logical fallacy called "reductio ad absurdum". Reductio ad absurdum is a mode of argumentation that seeks to establish a contention by deriving an absurdity from its denial, thus arguing that a thesis must be accepted because its rejection would be untenable. You've used it several times in this thread.

They could’ve cut the field due to travel restrictions. There’s still many spots available. As to how many, I have no clue. I just know if anyone still wants in, they can get in. When the canceled 2020, we had the option of selecting ‘21, ‘22, or ‘23. As far as I was told, everyone who selected ‘21 got in.

I would imagine foreigners opted for ‘22 or ‘23. We had to decide that many months ago.

November races for Disney still have availability. That’s unheard of 6 weeks out for their Wine & Dine races. When 2020 races went on sale, they were sold out within 30 minutes.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/immuno.html

So let’s shut everything down for 3% of the adult population? Which, by the way, you never sourced the exact amount of immunocompromised. Don’t worry, I just supplied it straight from the CDC…3%.

Be nice if others on here actually do what I do….provide data.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/dangerously-mutated-r1-covid-variant-detected-35-countries-1631879%3famp=1

Look at this. Another variant.

As I’ve said before, and will say again. It’s an RNA virus. It isn’t going anywhere. This virus will be here forever.

https://www.rochester.edu/newscenter/covid-19-rna-coronavirus-research-428952/

RNA viruses mutate constantly. This will never ever change.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5075021/

Vaccines are readily available. We have a clear choice on how to live life now. Keep everything locked down for 3% of the adult population and people who won’t get vaccinated OR be responsible and start to live life again.

I’m going with responsibility and living life. I’m healthy and vaccinated. My chances of survival are 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% if I catch it.

If I wasn’t vaccinated, my chances of survival are 99.8%. Even if I weren’t vaccinated, I’d still live life.

Note: I chose the vaccine because I don’t want to catch it. All my friends and family who have caught it, says it sucks.

Pleaseeeeeeee

You were 100% clear that you want sports for your personal viewing pleasure. But don’t want anyone else to do the things they like doing, such as attending the games or running in marathons. Let alone the rest of everything I listed including restaurants, church, concerts, gyms, malls, etc.

If that isn’t absurd, then Webster’s needs to redefine the word.

Why do you keep bringing up lockdowns? Nobody is saying that except you.

And what you're saying is that 3% of the US population doesn't matter? Just let them all die because you want to go on a crowded run?

What I'm saying is that big crowded events are still fairly high risk when it comes to transmissibility. Smaller events with proof of vaccinations? Pretty low risk.

No, that number is misleading.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-970830023526

Uh, pandemic.

Mutations happen because people continue to be infected and continue to spread it. Prevent the spread, reduce infections, and you prevent mutations. Prevent the virus from spreading, and it basically burns itself out since it has nowhere to go.

You told us everyone is bunched at the beginning. We see pictures of groups of runners running together. You do realize that this is what the concern is, right? You running alone without people around, go for it. You whining because you have to think of others, talk to the other vaccinated pinball hand.

Funny you would bring her up. I connected with a friend from high school days that was posting on FB about how her whole family (and extended family) were just now recovering from having Covid. I pretended to be dense so she would educate me about her anti-vax beliefs (she was into that even before Covid). The first thing she sent me was a a video of this ding dong. And before you ask, yes, my friend resides in the great state of Florida. She assured me that many of her friends and neighbors agree with her on all this.