Pre-print large scale study on masking.
Tl:dr masks have a measurable effect on reducing the spread of covid.
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/09/surgical-masks-covid-19.html
(Topic ID: 264520)
This topic is closed.
Chantilly, VA
Quoted from Trekkie1978:Only if Tennessee followed in Hawaii's footsteps of having an indoor mask mandate.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2021/08/24/fewer-mainland-nurses-arrive-than-were-expected-hawaiis-hospital-crisis-worsens/
From article:
HONOLULU (HawaiiNewsNow) -
“We know of very few visitors,” said Queen’s Health Systems CEO Jill Hoggard Green. ”The far majority are residents. And they are residents who are unvaccinated.”
Are unvaccinated people likely to be wearing masks? Not that I have seen.
Quoted from DCFAN:Are unvaccinated people likely to be wearing masks? Not that I have seen.
Precisely. Can we just mute this dude now? kthanx
I think it's likely been said a few time in this topic already, if masks did not work against communicable diseases, why would doctors and nurses wear them treating patients in hospitals. Pretty sure they do!
Quoted from DCFAN:Are unvaccinated people likely to be wearing masks? Not that I have seen.
Yeah, but Hawaii..
Quoted from MrBally:My fcuking insurance (obamacare, Nevada Healthcare marketplace) COmpaNy sent me a bill for a $29.00 "processing fee". This was for the 2nd dose received here. 1st dose in Michigan, under real insurance, did not appear anywhere indicating a cost.
That is totally absurd because the shot is free if you don't have insurance, which was my case.
At Walmart, it was announced on the store speakers that shots were available that would expire soon and anyone could get one for free.
Bats are simply out to get us...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nipah-virus-outbreak-india-kerala/
Auckland
Quoted from albummydavis:These numbers are not a reflection of where they are coming from. Almost all schools are requiring testing upon returning to campus. It is very simply a matter of social contact and transmission.
The article’s is trying to imply that a 95% vaccination rate is not helping reduce the chain of transmission. However these were tests done in the first week returning to campus. The majority of those infections would have occurred whilst students were on semester break as people can test positive for a few weeks after the initial infection. The article also says no variable has changed between the 2020 and 2021 results ignoring we have gone from alpha to the delta variant and any differences in social distancing requirements that may have been in place during the semester break of 2020.
Quoted from mcluvin:Bats are simply out to get us...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nipah-virus-outbreak-india-kerala/
Damn. That stuff makes Covid feel like child's play. Hope that never gets on an airplane.
Quoted from mcluvin:Bats are simply out to get us...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nipah-virus-outbreak-india-kerala/
It'll be in the USA in no time....
Quoted from nwpinball:[quoted image]
I keep seeing these graphs thinking they do not include the reason for hospitalization. My understanding is that everyone gets tested.
"Surging Covid-19 cases -- and the increasing proportion reported in children -- are causing many health experts to worry about the outlook as the school year gets underway across the entire country."
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/08/health/us-coronavirus-wednesday/index.html
"In Miami-Dade County Public Schools, 13 school employees have died from Covid-19 since August 16, the school district and local teacher union told CNN.
(** This is September 8,2021. 8-16 to 9-8 = 23 days. ).
All 13 --
*three teachers,
*one security monitor,
*one cafeteria worker
*and seven school bus drivers
-- were unvaccinated, they said. "
"Since vaccine mandates are illegal in Florida, the best thing Carvalho can do is offer incentives to teachers to get fully vaccinated, including a $275 stipend to any employee who shows proof of vaccination, he said."
(** The school bus drivers sure took a hit. And they sit a the front of the bus facing away from the students. I want to be sorry and sympathetic but then I read they were not vaccinated and that makes me be less sympathetic. I don't know about Florida, but around here the busses are not air conditioned so all of the windows would be open halfway for lots of ventilation. And if Florida does air condition its busses, I doubt they can brag about super air filtration systems as the airlines like to tout. ).
Quoted from bonzo71:I keep seeing these graphs thinking they do not include the reason for hospitalization. My understanding is that everyone gets tested.
The reason is at the top of the chart. Covid hospitalizations means that covid illness caused them to be hospitalized.
Quoted from 7oxford:The article’s is trying to imply that a 95% vaccination rate is not helping reduce the chain of transmission. However these were tests done in the first week returning to campus. The majority of those infections would have occurred whilst students were on semester break as people can test positive for a few weeks after the initial infection. The article also says no variable has changed between the 2020 and 2021 results ignoring we have gone from alpha to the delta variant and any differences in social distancing requirements that may have been in place during the semester break of 2020.
The article was also written by a disgruntled student who tried (and failed) to get a waiver of some sort to avoid the vaccine.
It's been proven many times vaccines, masking and social distancing all help slow the spread of the virus. I feel like anyone making the argument that the virus is still spreading despite these measures is completely ignoring the data and coming from a place of ignorance or just trying to defend why they aren't willing to help out slow it's spread.
Quoted from DCFAN:The reason is at the top of the chart. Covid hospitalizations means that covid illness caused them to be hospitalized.
Im reading it as hospitalization with covid, not from covid.
Quoted from DCFAN:The reason is at the top of the chart. Covid hospitalizations means that covid illness caused them to be hospitalized.
What if it means hospitalization with covid and not from covid? If an unvaccinated person ends up in the hospital due to an injury and tests positive for covid, do they appear on the chart? I looked on the website and could not tell.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/08/us/florida-mask-mandate-schools/index.html
Sorry, DeSantis. If you use Last years Data, and say no kids are affected, while the Hospitals show 25%,
(and pediatricians AT Florida Hospitals see much larger numbers internally),
A judge isnt going to support you.
Texas and Florida Darling Political positions are simply being shut down foir health and safety over self political gain.
Quoted from bonzo71:What if it means hospitalization with covid and not from covid? If an unvaccinated person ends up in the hospital due to an injury and tests positive for covid, do they appear on the chart? I looked on the website and could not tell.
So you are worried the numbers are skewed? I realize you are just asking questions (JAQ), and I'm just trying to understand where you are going with them. It sounds to me like you think the numbers are being inflated artificially, and that people in the hospital for Covid might just be there because they injured their toe but got tested. Do I have that right?
Quoted from bonzo71:Im reading it as hospitalization with covid, not from covid.
What if it means hospitalization with covid and not from covid? If an unvaccinated person ends up in the hospital due to an injury and tests positive for covid, do they appear on the chart? I looked on the website and could not tell.
If your hypothetical is true this is just as likely to happen to a vaccinated person and will therefore have no effect on the overall ratio.
Quoted from bonzo71:What if it means hospitalization with covid and not from covid? If an unvaccinated person ends up in the hospital due to an injury and tests positive for covid, do they appear on the chart? I looked on the website and could not tell.
That seems like such an outlier compared to someone being in the hospital with covid, because of covid, that I wouldn't think it would change the statistics much.
Unknown
Quoted from bonzo71:Im reading it as hospitalization with covid, not from covid.
What if it means hospitalization with covid and not from covid? If an unvaccinated person ends up in the hospital due to an injury and tests positive for covid, do they appear on the chart? I looked on the website and could not tell.
Well, even if there'd be half of them in hospital because of a car accident and happen to have covid as well, it'd still be the same percentages vaccinated vs non vaccinated in hospital with covid, so it still shows the vaccine work very well (and with your reasoning, not against hospitalisation with covid, but against getting covid, so even better than we think right now!). Unless you're trying to say that maybe there's a difference in the number of car accidents between vaccinated and unvaccinated people, so you should get vaccinated to have less change of getting in a car accident?
(Car accident is just an example, maybe vaccinated people get less cancer, or..... It all seems very far fetched to me, but I can see you're trying to say that vaccinations may even be way more useful than they already are according to what we know: that's just great news!!)
Quoted from bonzo71:What if it means hospitalization with covid and not from covid? If an unvaccinated person ends up in the hospital due to an injury and tests positive for covid, do they appear on the chart? I looked on the website and could not tell.
I'm not sure that matters. First of all, people who are minimally symptomatic or asymptomatic from COVID infection don't get admitted, they are managed from home. Given that this chart is admissions, we can assume if the patient is admitted for a primary diagnosis of COVID, they are symptomatic. Note that ER visits that are discharged home are not considered admissions. Admission means you stay overnight in the hospital.
If you are trying to say that the larger number of unvaccinated people being admitted is higher due to testing all admissions, that also doesn't matter because both vaccinated and unvaccinated admissions are tested the same. Unless you are theorizing that unvaccinated people are somehow having more car accidents or other causes of hospital admission vs vaccinated it really is a moot point.
Quoted from bonzo71:Im reading it as hospitalization with covid, not from covid.
What if it means hospitalization with covid and not from covid? If an unvaccinated person ends up in the hospital due to an injury and tests positive for covid, do they appear on the chart? I looked on the website and could not tell.
If you are “hospitalized with COVID” it means you are hospitalized because of COVID. (i.e. Hospitalized with traumatic head injuries from a motorcycle accident doesn’t mean “hospitalized for _______, but also happens to have traumatic head injuries from a motorcycle accident.” It means hospitalized because of traumatic head injury.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110362
NEJM article published today looking at vaccine effectiveness. Here's the meat of the results:
"The effectiveness of full messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccination (≥14 days after the second dose) was 89% (95% confidence interval [CI], 87 to 91) against laboratory-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection leading to hospitalization, 90% (95% CI, 85 to 93) against infection leading to an ICU admission, and 91% (95% CI, 89 to 93) against infection leading to an emergency department or urgent care clinic visit."
Quoted from gambit3113:If you are “hospitalized with COVID” it means you are hospitalized because of COVID. (i.e. Hospitalized with traumatic head injuries from a motorcycle accident doesn’t mean “hospitalized for ______, but also happens to have traumatic head injuries from a motorcycle accident.” It means hospitalized because of traumatic head injury.
If you have COVID and decide to drive to the hospital and die in a car crash on the way, you died because of COVID and that death will be added to the “numbers”
This is why so many people (outside of this thread) laugh at the numbers.
And be careful before you argue this because if the car accident scenario is removed then you gotta remove all the other things that killed people other than JUST COVID, which would make the numbers so low you’d question things and be labeled a conspiracy theorist.
If you slip mowing and cut off your toe and go to the ER they want to know if you’re vaccinated. If you are not vaccinated you end up as a count in the unvaccinated list as if a shot would’ve kept you from having an accident while mowing.
Quoted from Atari_Daze:I think it's likely been said a few time in this topic already, if masks did not work against communicable diseases, why would doctors and nurses wear them treating patients in hospitals. Pretty sure they do!
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They also don’t wear the same mask all day. Let alone for days, weeks, or even months at a time the way all of us do.
Add on top that they are trained how to properly wear them.
Quoted from mrm_4:If you have COVID and decide to drive to the hospital and die in a car crash on the way, you died because of COVID and that death will be added to the “numbers”
This is why so many people (outside of this thread) laugh at the numbers.
And be careful before you argue this because if the car accident scenario is removed then you gotta remove all the other things that killed people other than JUST COVID, which would make the numbers so low you’d question things and be labeled a conspiracy theorist.
If you slip mowing and cut off your toe and go to the ER they want to know if you’re vaccinated. If you are not vaccinated you end up as a count in the unvaccinated list as if a shot would’ve kept you from having an accident while mowing.
This is complete nonsense.
Any Joe Rogan bashers watch this yet?
https://variety.com/2021/digital/news/joe-rogan-ivermectin-covid-cnn-1235058799/
Quoted from mrm_4:If you have COVID and decide to drive to the hospital and die in a car crash on the way, you died because of COVID and that death will be added to the “numbers”
This is why so many people (outside of this thread) laugh at the numbers.
And be careful before you argue this because if the car accident scenario is removed then you gotta remove all the other things that killed people other than JUST COVID, which would make the numbers so low you’d question things and be labeled a conspiracy theorist.
If you slip mowing and cut off your toe and go to the ER they want to know if you’re vaccinated. If you are not vaccinated you end up as a count in the unvaccinated list as if a shot would’ve kept you from having an accident while mowing.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:They also don’t wear the same mask all day. Let alone for days, weeks, or even months at a time the way all of us do.
Add on top that they are trained how to properly wear them.
This whole "Mask" and "Covid death numbers" thing have been discussed ad nauseam here. If you don't trust the experts or a Doctor wearing full PPE ie, PantherCityPins who has already replied regarding this many many times then please agree to disagree and move on.
Quoted from bonzo71:Im reading it as hospitalization with covid, not from covid.
What if it means hospitalization with covid and not from covid? If an unvaccinated person ends up in the hospital due to an injury and tests positive for covid, do they appear on the chart? I looked on the website and could not tell.
How is that even relevant to the chart you are referencing? The chart DCFAN put up shows Covid-19 hospitalizations in San Diego and says 13 people with Covid are vaccinated and 521 are not vaccinated. How do you get any more out of this chart other than 13 and 521? This chart does not care where or how these people got Covid. 534 people have Covid. Of the 534, only 13 were vaccinated.
Conclusion: The vaccination rate in San Diego is abysmal. And costly. For the government. And therefore, all of our/us tax dollars.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:They also don’t wear the same mask all day. Let alone for days, weeks, or even months at a time the way all of us do.
Add on top that they are trained how to properly wear them.
It seems you have a short memory. When this stuff started last year, there were not enough masks for everybody. I kept reading where the med staff was washing their masks so they could be reused for the next day. And the next. And the next...
I'll give you "they are trained to wear them properly". I find myself thinking how much better off, or would we be better off, if all of the dicknoses would wear them properly. But that is almost a moot point when a large percentage of the population won't bother to mask up at all.
Now, pardon me as I step up on the stairs and rip my mask off for the whole world to see.
A friend of mine just got his first jab last week.
His wife works for the school system and has been vaccinated. She just came down with Covid that she more than likely got at school. Now my friend and his 2 kids have to play the in-our-house-isolation from mom routine.
I hope his first jab is enough to keep him from harm's way. And then there are the 2 kids who can't be vaccinated.
This is Kansas. Masks are optional.
Quoted from Trekkie1978:They also don’t wear the same mask all day. Let alone for days, weeks, or even months at a time the way all of us do.
Add on top that they are trained how to properly wear them.
That is true, however, do you sneeze and or cough into your palm or arm, or do you spew your saliva / possible phlegm all over the environment and persons near by? Would a mask and sneezing into you palm / arm further reduce particle spread?
When you blow your nose, do you use a tissue or just hawk your mucus all over people and objects nearby? If you use a tissue, why?
Image shared previously in this thread, but just to reiterate...
pee (resized).jpgRhetoric is amazing!
In chats with a few people around the country who are anti mask, anti-vax, I heard a NEW argument used in their support. It was almost the same words, new, and only in the last week. So I missed finding some sense of who or where it may have been heard or shared....
However the answer was basically, No shot or Vax, because we dont care if a few hundred thousand more die, we want this to look like a failure, for the current leaders to "Look Bad and incompetent'", for the next vote.
Talk about Patriotism.
Quoted from mrm_4:If you slip mowing and cut off your toe and go to the ER they want to know if you’re vaccinated. If you are not vaccinated you end up as a count in the unvaccinated list as if a shot would’ve kept you from having an accident while mowing.
So very specifically, you are claiming stating that all of the numbers showing people in the hospital with Covid listed as vaccinated and unvaccinated are actually for EVERYONE that goes to the hospital no matter what the cause? Do you have any proof of that? Do you have a single place to cite that? Can you share that data? Just one. Just a single emergency room patient listed as being in the hospital on the "unvaccinated" list for all the charts we have seen comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated in the hospital. Just one, that will be all you need to prove this. Thanks for providing it if you have it.
Every day now I am reading about someone who had to go to hospital and they were not vaccinated. And they wished they had listened to someone else instead of who they have been listening to. Some survive. Some die.
And these kind of stories are coming all the time, now. There is no point in even posting about the people who regretted not getting vaccinated because these stories are happening almost every day.
Winter is coming. Which way are we going to go?
Lempäälä
Quoted from mrm_4:If you have COVID and decide to drive to the hospital and die in a car crash on the way, you died because of COVID and that death will be added to the “numbers”
And how many cases like this do you think there are, in total COVID related deaths, or as you say "in the numbers" ?
Quoted from PantherCityPins:This is complete nonsense.
Quoted from hAbO:[quoted image]
This whole "Mask" and "Covid death numbers" thing have been discussed ad nauseam. If you don't trust a Doctor wearing full PPE who has already replied regarding this many many times then please agree to disagree and move on.
Quoted from DaveH:So very specifically, you are claiming stating that all of the numbers showing people in the hospital with Covid listed as vaccinated and unvaccinated are actually for EVERYONE that goes to the hospital no matter what the cause? Do you have any proof of that? Do you have a single place to cite that? Can you share that data? Just one. Just a single emergency room patient listed as being in the hospital on the "unvaccinated" list for all the charts we have seen comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated in the hospital. Just one, that will be all you need to prove this. Thanks for providing it if you have it.
Quoted from Tuukka:And how many cases like this do you think there are, in total COVID related deaths, or as you say "in the numbers" ?
Quoted from gambit3113:Nope. We're done.
65F38E72-7EC0-4EC4-9C6B-DB3E0A192AC1 (resized).jpegQuoted from mrm_4:If you have COVID and decide to drive to the hospital and die in a car crash on the way, you died because of COVID and that death will be added to the “numbers”
This is why so many people (outside of this thread) laugh at the numbers.
And be careful before you argue this because if the car accident scenario is removed then you gotta remove all the other things that killed people other than JUST COVID, which would make the numbers so low you’d question things and be labeled a conspiracy theorist.
If you slip mowing and cut off your toe and go to the ER they want to know if you’re vaccinated. If you are not vaccinated you end up as a count in the unvaccinated list as if a shot would’ve kept you from having an accident while mowing.
Nope. We're done.
Quoted from Atari_Daze:That is true, however, do you sneeze and or cough into your palm or arm, or do you spew your saliva / possible phlegm all over the environment and persons near by? Would a mask and sneezing into you palm / arm further reduce particle spread?
When you blow your nose, do you use a tissue or just hawk your mucus all over people and objects nearby? If you use a tissue, why?
Image shared previously in this thread, but just to reiterate...[quoted image]
That has absolutely nothing to do with masks being ineffective against normal breathing due to them being worn incorrectly.
From Yahoo News, regarding Fauci and Gain Of Function. He has many times denied it happening, but evidence mounts him lying about it.
I , like others , want to know but probably never will...
https://news.yahoo.com/gain-function-research-evidence-mounts-165900085.html
Quoted from Trekkie1978:ineffective against normal breathing
Quoted from Trekkie1978:due to them being worn incorrectly.
These are two entirely different and entirely separate conclusions.
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:Rhetoric is amazing!
In chats with a few people around the country who are anti mask, anti-vax, I heard a NEW argument used in their support. It was almost the same words, new, and only in the last week. So I missed finding some sense of who or where it may have been heard or shared....
However the answer was basically, No shot or Vax, because we dont care if a few hundred thousand more die, we want this to look like a failure, for the current leaders to "Look Bad and incompetent'", for the next vote.
Talk about Patriotism.
Biden and the White House have reached the NFA stage in this vaccination saga.
" Biden to announce that all federal workers must be vaccinated, with no option for testing "
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/politics/joe-biden-covid-speech/index.html
" President Joe Biden on Thursday will impose more stringent vaccine rules on federal workers by signing an executive order requiring all government employees be vaccinated against Covid-19, with no option of being regularly tested to opt out, according to a source familiar with the plans."
" During a major speech meant to lay out a new approach to combating the coronavirus, the President will also sign an executive order directing the same standard be extended to employees of contractors who do business with the federal government. The Department of Defense, the Department of Veterans Affairs, Indian Health Service and National Institutes of Health will also complete their previously announced vaccination requirements, which the White House estimates covers 2.5 million workers. "
Let's see how independent all the diehards are when they really have to choose between the vaccine or no paycheck from Uncle Sugar. Anybody want to take bets?
Government contractors include companies such as Lockheed-Martin and its employees. This would include Boeing and Spirit Aeropsace, Beech, Cessna and Learjet. It would get the NASA contractors. And the road builders for Interstate Highway work. This would also take in all workers at the U.S. national parks like Yellowstone and Yosemite. Other Federal contractors would include military base Exchanges. The Army Corps of Engineers and its contractors. And the submarine builder Electric Boat in Rhode Island. Amtrak will be climbing aboard. The reluctant ones will be getting vaccinated, perhaps kicking and screaming, but their with their paycheck on the line for all of these good paying Federal jobs I figure they will fall right in.
General Dynamics builds tanks for the U.S. Since we are coming home from the Middle East, we don't need any tanks. GD employees will be on their knees just to keep some govt. business coming in.
It is going to be a long reach put on by The Feds. The reluctant ones will no longer be able to continue with their vacillation or equivocation. A lots of people are employed by the Feds in one form or another.
I say BRAVO !
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