If you had a choice between AIDS and diabetes, you’d rather have AIDS. AIDS was a killer. In America, no one dies from AIDS anymore. The cocktail drug keeps the disease at bay.

Most cancers are very survivable now. Back in the day, when you found out you had cancer it was an immediate death sentence. Not so anymore, unless in rare instances. You do realize lung cancer and brain cancer are different. Bone cancer is different from those 2. Colon cancer is even more different.

As for annual flu shots. The flu shot was the first ever vaccine for a respiratory virus and up until last year, the only vaccine for a respiratory virus. That’s what makes the covid vaccines even more of a miracle. How do you expect a vaccine to be one and some for a virus that constantly mutates (flu)? Covid mutates too.

Know who I trust? The scientists that developed the vaccine. Know who I don’t trust? People like you that do zero research.

National Health Care is not free, .42 cents of every tax dollar funds our "free" health care in Alberta.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/27/florida-woman-covid-dead-husband/

As a quick summary, he caught it, then she caught it worse (both unvaccinated). When she was released from the hospital, she came home to find him dead.

Quote: She added: “We wanted to make sure [getting vaccinated] was safe.”

As you spew the same bullshit over and over, and as you avoid answering any questions or points asked of you, and as you pretend you are finding middle ground with ForceFlow while avoiding any points he makes, you only sound like a conspiracy nutter. Did this woman read similar mutterings and avoid the vaccine because of them? Most likely yes. Is her husband dead because they believed people spouting the same bullcrap you are spouting here? In my opinion, yes.

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/coronavirus-covid-19-and-medical-devices/face-masks-including-surgical-masks-and-respirators-covid-19

I follow the science.

I love this.

Yeah. I bought pinball from John's Jukes in Vancouver. I was toying with the idea of a nice road trip through Oregon and Washington and pick it up myself. John told me that would not be a problem. But he told me he would have to charge me 12% sales tax for a floor sale.

I had it shipped. But I figure a lot of that sales tax went to fund Canadian healthcare. Yes? No?

Not free, but is any Canadian having to file for medical bankruptcy?

If you're questioning whether you should get the vaccine, consult with your doctor. If you don't like the answer feel free to get another opinion. If you choose to ignore the recommendations of your doctor because you 'did your own research', congratulations, now you're your own doctor!

Since you follow the science, I have quoted the key post from Doc Gizzard for your scientific edification. Also - your posted link from the FDA supports the use of masks to prevent spread.

Maybe I misunderstood your post and it was in favor of masking up to prevent spread?

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/569855-unvaccinated-employee-sparked-covid-19-outbreak-at-oregon-assisted

Another story of an unvaccinated person spreading the virus and killing people. An unvaccinated worker at an assisted living facility in Oregon prompted a COVID-19 outbreak that infected 64 people and killed five. Get vaccinated, don't kill people.

No, you completely missed what I was trying to say.

When multiple companies are developing similar products, usually that drives the prices down--not up.

Are there some incentives for making money when bringing a new product to market? Sure. Pretty much every product is like that--whether or not it's related to the medical field. I don't see people shaking a fist at anyone making cars, boats, furniture, doorknobs, floor mats, towels, coffee makers, tablets, phones, etc.

Generally, if someone tries to price gouge, then there is market pressure to correct/address that, just like with what's happening with the insulin issue.

From a UK perspective, US medical bankruptcy and gofundme pages to get medical treatments are two of the most shocking things about the US. It shouldn't have to be like that AT ALL. Very, very saddening. And US healthcare is about 1.5-2 times as expensive per capita than any universal healthcare system, so the 'socialism' arguments don't stack up as you pay much more than anywhere else in the world already.

This story is on most major news sources. Poor dogs:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.toofab.com/2021/08/27/florida-woman-returns-from-hospital-covid-battle-to-find-unvaccinated-husband-dead-in-bed/

"toxins leaving" is often repeated in ant-vaxxer groups constantly. Anything that goes wrong, it's always "toxins leaving the body".

More often than not, it's intestinal and stomach lining peeling off. They are literally causing themselves organ damage with their wackadoodle homebrew miracle cures.

Well, yes. Obviously the money comes from somewhere. But everyone pays that equally. It's a give and take sort of system. Definitely has it's cons, but an NHS means no major illness, injury, or congenital condition will bankrupt anyone.

Oh, that’s too bad, I’m sorry if you wanted me to acknowledge it.

I’m not here for the same dozen people beating the drum over and over. I already knew how this whole thing was going to go before it was a thing. But it’s been entertaining in here thanks to them.

This is why we need to be vaccinated, to prevent this and the strains on our hospitals!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/a-kansas-man-died-waiting-for-an-icu-bed-while-hospitals-were-filled-to-capacity-with-covid-19-patients/ar-AANR7kC?li=BBnba9O

Caleb Wallace, anti-mask organizer and co-founder of the San Angelo Freedom Defenders, dies of COVID-19

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/caleb-wallace-anti-mask-organizer-and-co-founder-of-the-san-angelo-freedom-defenders-dies-of-covid-19/

No you just die waiting years for treatment. It's not all it's made out to be. A blended system would be much better. Alberta doesn't have sales tax cotton but we do pay about 33-36% income tax on a 70-100k wage.

I’m going right to the FDA…not sure what else I can possibly do.

Read it again.

The masks everyone wears, people are still breathing in and breathing out the virus. So since people are breathing in and breathing out the virus, how exactly is the mask stopping the virus? Answer: it isn’t.

It’s only the N95 that is properly worn, stops the virus.

They also use the word “may.” It may stop the virus vs. it will stop the virus are two completely different things. When they use the word may, it means in perfect conditions the masks people wear will stop the virus. Perfect conditions…that practically never happens.

Keep in mind that for the most part, the virus isn't floating around all by itself. Their typical mode of transport is in water droplets. Stop the water droplets from going anywhere, and you stop a high percentage of transmission.

This is just sad.

https://calmatters.org/health/coronavirus/2021/08/california-nurses-shortage/

"But burnout isn’t the only thing compounding California’s nursing shortage: The state’s new vaccine mandate for health care workers is already causing headaches for understaffed hospitals before it is even implemented. Some traveling nurses — who are in high demand nationwide — are turning down California assignments because they don’t want to get vaccinated."

And

“One hospital told us they had 474 unvaccinated employees. They did a big education and incentive push. Only 12 people signed up,” said Richardson, the hospital association’s attorney."

You can actually READ the links you are posting or perhaps even half of the 11 studies I posted for you. THAT is following the science.

You do know the link you posted before is pro masking right? You read it before you linked it right?

This guy apparently self treated with ivermectin before he worsened and went to the hospital.

It’s so frustrating as a physician to watch people die whose death was likely preventable. If he had been vaccinated he may have still been infected with COVID but he would likely have been able to be treated from home and his wife wouldn’t be a widow nor his 4 kids now without a father.

Where’s the ivermectin is a miracle cure guy? How does he explain this man’s death if he took the miracle cure?

Yeah, you didn’t read the studies.

I admire your persistence but I don’t think Trekkie is reachable.

He’s convinced himself he’s right and no amount of data to the contrary will sway him.

I posted 11 separate studies that each show different facets of masks working to reduce COVID transmission, on average about 70% reduction. Didn’t phase him. I don’t think he read one.

He posted a link to the CDC that actually supports masking to reduce spread and said it was an example of him following the science. I’m not sure if he realized the link was pro mask or not. Again I suspect he didn’t even read it.

He wants to cherry pick data that says that surgical masks don’t prevent inhalation of an airborne virus (which is true) and use that single fact to say masks don’t prevent transmission (which is not true). It shows he doesn’t understand or care to understand how COVID actually gets from one person’s lungs to another.

I usually have reasonable amount of patience explaining things but I really don’t care to explain things over and over to someone who puts no effort in even attempting to understand reality.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/sars-cov-2-transmission.html

The virus is also in aerosol particles.

Now the virus is even smaller, making it easier to evade mask protection.

Remember, I’m not saying all masks don’t work. I’m saying the N95 works. That is the mask that works. That isn’t the one we are wearing.

The masks people wear, specifically the blue ones, are one time use only. Can we honestly say that people are wearing this mask properly? The clear answer is absolutely not. Thus, rendering them ineffective.

Then you have the snug cloth masks…which the virus passes right through the cloth. It’s great at stopping sneeze droplets, but useless against breathing.

Hawaii issues a mask mandate on July 15, when there were 100 cases: https://apnews.com/article/health-government-and-politics-coronavirus-pandemic-hawaii-9c6d5bb024194db5157cf6d3b032d9bf

Hawaii looking at more restrictions as cases top over 1,000: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.staradvertiser.com/2021/08/28/hawaii-news/counties-consider-new-policy-to-curb-covid-19-infections-in-hawaii/amp/

While having a strict mask mandate, Hawaii’s numbers have increased tenfold and they are now looking at more restrictions.

We have to get vaccinated. Demon vaccines. Vaccinations what we need. Greasy fast vaccines.

I really don't understand why it's so hard for people to understand this.

Masks aren't there to stop individual virus particles for the most part, they are there to collect all the spit that comes out as you breathe and talk, because those spit drops contain virus.

You need some form of physical barrier over your mouth and nose to keep gross shit from coming out into the air.

That’s the write thing to do.

Well, if only an N95 mask properly worn stops the virus, then I suppose there is nothing more we can do. We are completely helpless. I am out of ideas.

If only Amazon could help somehow.

That all sounds good. Can you provide the source for this info, please?

" This money is also going towards Calebs medical bills as they start coming in,” reads an update to the campaign’s description, “He’s now been in the hospital since July 30th and I know I must prepare for them as well. Gotta pray for the best and prepare for the worst.”

" Gotta pray for the best and prepare for the worst.”

I like that. "Prepare for the worst. " Hmmm, like getting vaccinated, maybe. And maybe wearing a mask? Those 2 items don't take very much preparation. And sometimes, your prayers require more action than just getting on your knees and wailing away.

The vaccine is the answer to your prayers. It's not like Moses descending from the mountain with the book of laws and suddenly there is the 11th Commandment.

How can we expect leadership, any leadership, any where in the world to be able to speak in terms of absolutes with a virus that is ravaging the world? Covid has been moving target. And everybody had to learn from scratch. From the " we have it under control. There is no one infected in the U.S." to the current number of US deaths of 654,000 is a good illustration to why you cannot speak in absolutes with an enemy you can't see.

Why is it that a lot of countries on the bottom of the list have zero deaths?

Screen Shot 2021-08-29 at 8.57.12 AM (resized).png

There have been a whole lot of "whys and hows" in trying to get in front of this moving target.

Look at the CDC. Redfield retired and his replacement looked at the situation. We had vaccine. So we could take off our masks. And then Delta happened to come along and made liars of US leaders.

It is like you are expecting leadership to have a crystal ball that will show all is well and they can see around corners. But all they have is a Magic 8 Ball and a reluctant populace.

I agree, we should make it so every American has easy access to n95 masks and they should be worn.

" Starting Friday, the Wellington School District will close all of its buildings, suspend sports practices and all other school related events until Sept. 7 due to COVID-19.

https://www.kake.com/story/44611127/wellington-school-district-closing-all-school-buildings-schoolrelated-events-until-sept-7-due-to-covid

"The moves comes after the school district and the Sumner County Health Department determined three of the district's six buildings had COVID outbreaks. "

" In the first eight days of school there were at least 40 positive cases. The positive cases were highest at Eisenhower, Wellington Middle School, and Wellington High school, deeming them official outbreak schools. This caused the Sumner County Health Department to recommend temporarily closing them."
==================================================

" MISSION, Kan. (AP) — More than half of Kansas students are now required to wear masks in school as cases the delta variant increase, leading to widespread quarantines and forcing one district to call off classes because of a COVID-19 outbreak."

https://www.kake.com/story/44618306/most-kansas-students-must-mask-up-covid-closes-1-district

"Most of the mandates, ..., require masks for all students. A handful, though, only require masks for students who are too young to be vaccinated.

"Remaining mask-free is proving challenging. In the 1,400-student Wellington district in south-central Kansas, schools were shuttered and sports practices canceled starting Friday. The move comes after the school district and the Sumner County Health Department determined three of the district’s six buildings had COVID outbreaks. Students won't return until Sept. 7, the district announced in a Facebook post."

" The best way for us to keep kids in school face-to-face is if we are masked up and that is really the final answer to the entire problem."

Oh I know. My wife is Welsh, and still has lots of family living in England and Wales. So I get lots of first-hand reports about the NHS and about taxes and stuff.

That being said, my wife who's lived under both British and US health systems definitely prefers the British NHS system. In spite of its downsides.

I did read it. And it said with masks you can still spread it and catch it.

The keyword is “properly”.

You refuse to answer the question of how many people properly wear masks. Why is that?

Ivermectin isn’t the miracle cure it’s cracked up to be I guess? My buddy gives this to his pet pig “Gerry”. He also gave it to a squirrel he rescued with mange.

Some people are so willing to do anything other than the vaccine or wear a mask. There’s a new projection of another 100,000 dead around December. What is it going to take?

Is it a lack of a decent education? Being easily manipulated? Wanting to belong to a something?

I don’t have a lot of empathy for people like this anymore because it’s totally avoidable.

I can try and answer that.If worn over nose and mouth they offer a considerable amount of protection.There is no way to give a number on how many are wearing correctly or not ,Some wear correctly some of the time and some wear not covering their snot locker and they may as well be considered not wearing a mask.If everyone came together to vax and wear the masks for just a short period of time we wouldnt be here today talking about it.To ask for a count on how many are wearing correctly is a silly question.Those wearing masks are atleast making an effort.

Do you know the answer that you ask? I see a lot of what we started calling Dicknoses on this thread to describe those with their mask pulled down below their nose. Do I know how many? Send me $50.00 and I'll give you my answer.

In the meantime, I will ask you. How many people properly wear masks? Do you know? Do you even have an idea? Or were you just asking a rhetorical question?

Yes, the FDA speaks in terms of " the mask may help..."

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/coronavirus-covid-19-and-medical-devices/face-masks-including-surgical-masks-and-respirators-covid-19#reporting

Screen Shot 2021-08-29 at 12.15.33 PM (resized).png

And if you click on the link, it takes you here.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html

Screen Shot 2021-08-29 at 12.18.51 PM (resized).png

I'm not finding what you said here. Care to show me in the link where is supports what you say? Thanks.

Because it doesn’t matter in the end.

Yes, not everyone wears a mask correctly. Not everyone wears a seatbelt correctly either. Not everyone follows the speed limit or stops at every stop sign. The data shows those interventions still save lives, just as real world data shows masks reduce transmission of COVID.

Tell you what, go read the study that looked at COVID transmission rates in Kansas between counties that did and did not have mask mandates. Those people didn’t always wear the mask properly either. Yet, transmission was significantly lower in counties with mask mandates vs those without.

You keep trying to distract from the core point that masks have consistently been shown to reduce transmission of COVID in the real world. Why is that?

If your wife ever had to get treated for cancer, heart disease, or another serious illness under the NHS system, she may have a different opinion. I know several Brits that hate their system and have been wait listed or unable to get timely care for ailnents as they got older.

I also have a cousin who is an academic and hardcore democrat that lived in England for a few years. He had to have a root canal while there. It had to be redone when he returned to the US. His dentist here commented on how shoddy the work done there was. He himself called himself a "victim" of English socialized healthcare.

I am as pro vaccine as anyone but I also am not a fan of socialized healthcare. It works for primary care type treatments and possibly once in a century pandemics but not as you get older and need timely and sophisticated treatment for more serious maladies.

Mine has as well. Others like Delta are increasing healthcare costs on those that won't get vaccinated (this makes total sense IMO).

Increasingly, those refusing vaccination are going to gave a difficult time finding employment or functioning in society. People are just tired of all the pandemic and all nonsense and conspiracy theories that have come with it.

Explain Hawaii

That right there blows up your mask argument.