This topic is closed.
Quoted from rwmech5:Can the employees sue the employer if it is a requirement to work there and they have an adverse reaction to the vaccine?
Not a lawyer but in my opinion: Not exactly.
I believe this would be similar to being injured on the job. Workmans comp sort of thing.
At my old job, you lose a finger, insurance has a set amount they paid out. Workmans comp. Sure you try and sue for more but…good luck.
You have to prove the employer was reckless.
Quoted from gweempose:That's a good question. I suspect we will be seeing all sorts of vaccine related lawsuits over the next year or so.
Especially when the side effects start surfacing
Quoted from Atari_Daze:Unless they are union.
I’m pretty sure nurses are union, so I guess we’ll find out.
I think we’re getting pretty close to the limit of adults that will be vaccinated here in the U.S. There are a half dozen places within 10 miles of me that are accepting walk ins with all 3 vaccines available, I got the shot about an hour ago and there was only one other person the whole time I was there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment
The employee has the right to refuse and the employer has the tight to terminate said employee. Any vaccine side effects would almost definitely be the employee’s problem to deal with and not the employer other than to allow the employee to use any sick leave the employee has accrued.
It is baffling how some people that normally are all for at-will employer power are suddenly upset about a vaccine requirement by employers. Employers have all the power so people should not selectively be getting worked up or surprised about one instance where at-will employment displays itself. At-will employment is an all or nothing concept. Either you agree with it or not.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:Saw today that 170 employees of Methodist hospital system in Houston were suspended for refusing to comply with the companies mandated COVID vaccine. Of course they are suing, stating the vaccine is “experimental” and violates their rights.
I really think we need to bring back Schoolhouse Rock or something to get some basic civics knowledge into the American public. You don’t have a right to dictate the terms of your employment.
I read that story. JCAM !! This country is filled with so many spoiled brats it is a wonder how anything gets done. I'm surprised De Santis and Abbott don't gang up on the hospital.
======================================================
Coming up is the showdown between the cruise lines and both Florida and Texas. The cruise lines want to see your vaccination papers before you board. Both Florida and Texas were saying "no" to vaccine passports. Personally, I would not climb on one of those floating Petri dishes unless there was 100% verified vaccination of the passengers.
Quoted from hAbO:I remember when people in this thread were comparing Covid19 to the Spanish Flu saying it wasn't as deadly. Don't make me look for the posts That was because the timeline had not yet happened. I guess it was a talking point to downplay the virus for some reason. Fast forward to now and its comparable to the Spanish Flu.
675,000 dead from Spanish Flu
597,000 dead from Covid19 (and counting).
The Black Plague was the biggy though.
Seems a little weird to ignore population difference in ~100 years when making this comparison.
Estimated US population in 1918: 103.21m @ 675k dead ~ .65%
Estimated US population in 2020: 330.66m @ 597k dead ~ .181%
Putting death rates for Spanish Flu ~3.6 times that of Covid19.
Policies also not in place in 1918:
- PCR testing as only requirement to be considered a case regardless of symptoms
- Death certificate matching on positive cases 3+ months in past (timeline state dependent)
Not downplaying the impact of Covid at all, but these are factors that should be considered when making a direct comparison to 1918.
Quoted from sethington:Seems a little weird to ignore population difference in ~100 years when making this comparison.
Estimated US population in 1918: 103.21m @ 675k dead ~ .65%
Estimated US population in 2020: 330.66m @ 597k dead ~ .181%
Putting death rates for Spanish Flu ~3.6 times that of Covid19.
Policies also not in place in 1918:
- PCR testing as only requirement to be considered a case regardless of symptoms
- Death certificate matching on positive cases 3+ months in past (timeline state dependent)
Not downplaying the impact of Covid at all, but these are factors that should be considered when making a direct comparison to 1918.
Ventilators did not exist in 1918. Also, pretty much everything in medicine has improved since then.
Quoted from sethington:Seems a little weird to ignore population difference in ~100 years when making this comparison.
Estimated US population in 1918: 103.21m @ 675k dead ~ .65%
Estimated US population in 2020: 330.66m @ 597k dead ~ .181%
Putting death rates for Spanish Flu ~3.6 times that of Covid19.
Policies also not in place in 1918:
- PCR testing as only requirement to be considered a case regardless of symptoms
- Death certificate matching on positive cases 3+ months in past (timeline state dependent)
Not downplaying the impact of Covid at all, but these are factors that should be considered when making a direct comparison to 1918.
And boy howdy those ICUs back then…
Quoted from cottonm4:Personally, I would not climb on one of those floating Petri dishes unless there was 100% verified vaccination of the passengers.
Personally, I wouldn't climb into one of them even before the pandemic. Way too many reports and stories about norovirus and other illnesses going around and affecting hundreds of passengers and crew. That's not exactly the way I'd like to spend a vacation.
I was at a graduation party over the weekend, and a guy comes out of the bathroom and obviously had just done a line of blow, as I’m no amateur with that stuff. Fast forward a couple of hours and we get to talking around the fire. He says he’s not getting the vaccine because he has no idea what’s in “that stuff”. Haha, WTF.
Very misleading headline. Here’s a quote from the article:
The Cleveland Clinic tells FOX 8, “We don’t know how long the immune system will protect against reinfection or protect against variants. We still recommend those eligible receive the vaccine. This study was conducted within the population of healthcare workers that are younger & healthier than the general population. It is safe to get the COVID-19 vaccine even if you have had previously tested positive for COVID-19.”
So, basically they are saying that prior infection protects against garden variety COVID but may not protect against the variants which are now becoming more of the problem.
Also, part of the rationale for immunizing those who previously had COVID is to provide a booster to the immune system and perhaps extend immunity.
Quoted from Jaybird815:I was at a graduation party over the weekend, and a guy comes out of the bathroom and obviously had just done a line of blow, as I’m no amateur with that stuff. Fast forward a couple of hours and we get to talking around the fire. He says he’s not getting the vaccine because he has no idea what’s in “that stuff”. Haha, WTF.
I think we all know I'm a big Washington Football Facepalmers fan...
Star DE Montez Sweat doesn't plan on taking the Vaccine unless he gets COVID:
“I probably won’t get vaccinated until I got more facts and that type of stuff, but I’m not a fan of it at all,” the 24-year-old Sweat said. “I haven’t caught Covid yet. I don’t see me treating Covid until I actually get Covid.”
Quoted from DCFAN:Ventilators did not exist in 1918. Also, pretty much everything in medicine has improved since then.
I must've missed the part of the argument where we should give up technological and societal gains.
Quoted from rwmech5:Can the employees sue the employer if it is a requirement to work there and they have an adverse reaction to the vaccine?
Almost every healthcare facility requires flu shots, some also require hepatitis C shots. I really don't see how you could work there and not want to have the covid shot unless you want your patients to get sick and possibly die. If you don't care about your patients you shouldn't work there.
Quoted from Jaybird815:I’m pretty sure nurses are union, so I guess we’ll find out.
Not in Texas, even Unions have limited power in many cases.
Quoted from mrm_4:Especially when the side effects start surfacing
10 years from now.....
Have you or a loved one suffered life threaten side effects from the covid-19 vaccine? Call the law offices of Brigham Haught and Bonem. You may be entitled to a substantial setttlement. Call today. 
Quoted from sethington:Seems a little weird to ignore population difference in ~100 years when making this comparison.
Estimated US population in 1918: 103.21m @ 675k dead ~ .65%
Estimated US population in 2020: 330.66m @ 597k dead ~ .181%
Putting death rates for Spanish Flu ~3.6 times that of Covid19.
Policies also not in place in 1918:
- PCR testing as only requirement to be considered a case regardless of symptoms
- Death certificate matching on positive cases 3+ months in past (timeline state dependent)
Not downplaying the impact of Covid at all, but these are factors that should be considered when making a direct comparison to 1918.
How does the worldwide difference between 1918 Pandemic and 2020 Covid work out?
In 1918, an estimated 50,000,000 died worldwide. Today, with Covid, worldwide deaths are a fraction of 1918 deaths at 3,800,000 or .076 %. There are many more people in the world today than in 1918. If the U.S. was going to be on par with the rest of the world today, our number of deaths would need to be 675K x .076 = 51,000 people, which was missed by a long shot.
Just got my second dose of Pfizer yesterday. Arm is more sore than the first shot.
Tomorrow we’re opening patios with way more restrictions than last year and people are celebrating like it’s over. Talk about frog in a boiling pot.
Quoted from sethington:I must've missed the part of the argument where we should give up technological and societal gains.
Hand washing was still kind of a new concept in the late 1800s and early 1900s.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/handwashing-once-controversial-medical-advice
Quoted from sethington:I must've missed the part of the argument where we should give up technological and societal gains.
who said give up the gains,The gains are part of the reason fewer people have died.Surprised you left that out.
Quoted from Pinball_Postal:Not in Texas, even Unions have limited power in many cases.
Who wants to go to this Houston Facility where you go in for a minor issue and the trained medical proffesionals ignore facts and send you home packing death.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I think we all know I'm a big Washington Football Facepalmers fan...
Star DE Montez Sweat doesn't plan on taking the Vaccine unless he gets COVID:
https://www.mediaite.com/sports/washington-football-team-star-not-a-fan-of-nfl-vaccine-push-i-dont-see-me-treating-covid-until-i-actually-get-covid/
“I probably won’t get vaccinated until I got more facts and that type of stuff, but I’m not a fan of it at all,” the 24-year-old Sweat said. “I haven’t caught Covid yet. I don’t see me treating Covid until I actually get Covid.”
This may change. The NFL is requiring coaches to get vaccinated and is pressuring the player's union to make it mandatory also. I've seen Josh Allen say he's not vaccinated and wasn't planning on getting the shot till he has more info. He's one of the leaders on the team and wonder how many other Bills players will follow him?
Quoted from ForceFlow:Hand washing was still kind of a new concept in the late 1800s and early 1900s.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/handwashing-once-controversial-medical-advice
Fun fact:
Hand washing before delivering a baby was unheard of prior to Ignatz Semmelweis, a Hungarian obstetrician who practiced in the 1800s. He postulated that childbed fever (an illness that was killing a lot of mothers in his ward) was due to some substance the midwives were passing from patient to patient. At the time it was standard practice for a midwife to do an autopsy on a recently deceased patient and then return to deliver the next baby. He told all his midwives to wash their hands prior to examining a patient with a chlorine wash and his death rate plummeted. Obviously now we would think it was obvious the midwives were passing bacteria from the dead bodies to the women as they examined them and delivered their babies but back then this was unknown.
Anyhow, Semmelweis released his findings at the local medical conference and was shouted down as a lunatic. He actually went crazy due to being ridiculed throughout the rest of his career and died in a mental hospital in 1865. Pasteur and Lister (Listerine anyone?) published papers on the modern theory of antisepsis in 1867.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled program.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I think we all know I'm a big Washington Football Facepalmers fan...
Star DE Montez Sweat doesn't plan on taking the Vaccine unless he gets COVID:
https://www.mediaite.com/sports/washington-football-team-star-not-a-fan-of-nfl-vaccine-push-i-dont-see-me-treating-covid-until-i-actually-get-covid/
“I probably won’t get vaccinated until I got more facts and that type of stuff, but I’m not a fan of it at all,” the 24-year-old Sweat said. “I haven’t caught Covid yet. I don’t see me treating Covid until I actually get Covid.”
Rivera even brought in a vaccine scientist to speak with the team, and Sweat was “unmoved”.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I think we all know I'm a big Washington Football Facepalmers fan...
Star DE Montez Sweat doesn't plan on taking the Vaccine unless he gets COVID:
https://www.mediaite.com/sports/washington-football-team-star-not-a-fan-of-nfl-vaccine-push-i-dont-see-me-treating-covid-until-i-actually-get-covid/
“I probably won’t get vaccinated until I got more facts and that type of stuff, but I’m not a fan of it at all,” the 24-year-old Sweat said. “I haven’t caught Covid yet. I don’t see me treating Covid until I actually get Covid.”
I am a baby boomer. I grew up when TVs were coming on strong. I learned a lot about life by watching TV. From Lloyd Bridges in Seahunt I learned about the "bends". From Roy Rogers I learned to not point guns at people. From Captain Kangaroo I learned how to tell time. etc.
But in the 50s and 60s, there was still some real world learning going on.
Now we have the Gen Xer's ( or whoever that are) coming into the age being responsible and getting prepared for their generation to run the country. The problem? All of their learning comes from watching TV. " Ok, class, tonight your homework assignment will be to grab a bag of chips and watch channel 5. You will have a 6 question multiple choice test to gauge if you saw anything worth while on the tube. For extra credit, you can report what you saw on channel 10, as well. "
Quoted from ForceFlow:Hand washing was still kind of a new concept in the late 1800s and early 1900s.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/handwashing-once-controversial-medical-advice
That looks like a good article. I started reading but got shut down by a nag screen that wants my email address. Every time I sign up for something like this I start getting flooded with scam emails.
I'd like to read this article but.......
Hold the presses: I figured out that if I save this webpage as a PDF file when it first opens up, then I can read it with impunity 
Quoted from Jamesays:who said give up the gains,The gains are part of the reason fewer people have died.Surprised you left that out.
The Spanish Flu dropped life expectancy at the time by a decade. The CDC estimated a 1 year drop due to Covid, not without controversy though as some estimate life expectancy dropped by... 5.3 days
https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/25/cdc-one-year-decline-life-expectancy-really-five-days/
lifeexpectancy (resized).pngQuoted from cottonm4:That looks like a good article. I started reading but got shut down by a nag screen that wants my email address. Every time I sign up for something like this I start getting flooded with scam emails.
I'd like to read this article but.......
Hold the presses: I figured out that if I save this webpage as a PDF file when it first opens up, then I can read it with impunity
Should Typhoid Mary be allowed to work at a restaurant if she doesnt feel the time is right or wants more facts first or is in the union ?
Quoted from ForceFlow:Personally, I wouldn't climb into one of them even before the pandemic. Way too many reports and stories about norovirus and other illnesses going around and affecting hundreds of passengers and crew. That's not exactly the way I'd like to spend a vacation.
I've been on a couple dozen cruises in my life and have no issue going on more. Regardless of vaccination status of others, since I'm vaccinated and all of the "experts" say that's all I need; that's PROOF POSITIVE for me.
I go on cruises to enjoy life, meet people, explore new places, get laid etc.
Not stopping now....
Quoted from Jaybird815:I was at a graduation party over the weekend, and a guy comes out of the bathroom and obviously had just done a line of blow, as I’m no amateur with that stuff. Fast forward a couple of hours and we get to talking around the fire. He says he’s not getting the vaccine because he has no idea what’s in “that stuff”. Haha, WTF.
High school or college graduation party?
Quoted from Jaybird815:Rivera even brought in a vaccine scientist to speak with the team, and Sweat was “unmoved”.
Coachable!
Quoted from cottonm4:That looks like a good article. I started reading but got shut down by a nag screen that wants my email address. Every time I sign up for something like this I start getting flooded with scam emails.
Just feed it a dummy address. It looks like the forum is satisfied with that. Something that couldn't possibly be real like [email protected]
Quoted from mrm_4:Especially when the side effects start surfacing
They already are
Quoted from MrBally:High school or college graduation party?
“High” School
Quoted from ForceFlow:Just feed it a dummy address. It looks like the forum is satisfied with that. Something that couldn't possibly be real like
Or, do like we used to, and use a real one that a jerk had.
Quoted from rwmech5:Can the employees sue the employer if it is a requirement to work there and they have an adverse reaction to the vaccine?
Can employees sue the employer with regards to issues with Covid and work?
Well, Mitch McConnell was pushing for liability protections for businesses but he backed off. But the states are addressing the liability issues.
Here is the one that South Dakota is working on:
" (Pending Legislation): The South Dakota legislature passed House Bill 1046, on February 8, 2021, prohibiting any claim or action for damages or relief alleging exposure or potential exposure to COVID-19, unless the exposure results in a COVID-19 diagnosis and the exposure is a result of intentional exposure with the intent to transmit COVID-19. This law, if signed by the Governor, would apply to healthcare providers, business owners, and even personal protective equipment manufacturers and distributors."
Pay attention to this part: " and the exposure is a result of intentional exposure with the intent to transmit COVID-19."
It sounds to me like if you are an employee and catch Covid at work, you are not going to have any recourse unless you can prove your employer threw you to the wolves. How does an employer "prove" they have your best interest in mind? All an employer has to do is put out some hand sanitizer and may be offer some masks and some extra wipe-down cleaning and it will show the employer has your best interest in mind.
Of the few of these liability clauses I have read from different states, I am going to say that if someone wants to sue their employer for Covid related issues they better have a lot of money because, IMO, only a starving and/or idiot lawyer would take on a lawsuit case over employment and Covid.
It is going to be on you to protect yourself by....shall I say it...wearing a mask. And washing you hands. And getting vaccinated. If you die, your employer might send flowers to your funeral service to show that they "really" care. After that, it is back to business as usual.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oops. I am sorry. You were asking about employers and the vaccine. Do you really think the U.S. govt., which is wanting everybody to get vaccinated, the same govt. that is also donating 500 million vaccine doses worldwide, is going to pay much attention if someone is having a bad reaction? I'm guessing that if you don't die you are going to have to sort it out yourself.
And I am just speaking from a U.S. point of view. I have no idea how, say Canada or Australia or the European countries are going to deal with liability issues.
Speaking of cruise lines requiring vaccination passports:
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/celebrity-cruise-two-covid-positive-guests/index.html
"Two guests aboard the Celebrity Millennium tested positive for Covid-19 in required end-of-cruise testing, the cruise line said in a Thursday news release."
---------------------------
This ship did not port in the U.S. I keep waiting for the showdown between the cruise lines and both Texas and Florida.
Federal health officials have verified 226 cases of myocarditis or pericarditis in people ages 30 and younger who have received an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine and are investigating about 250 more reports.
https://www.aappublications.org/news/2021/06/10/covid-vaccine-myocarditis-rates-061021
Quoted from mrm_4:Especially when the side effects start surfacing
In regards to the younger generations, the anti vaccine argument can be summarized as:
Covid is not that big of a deal, only about 1 in 50 get hospitalized and like 1 in 500 die.
The vaccine is a big deal because about 1 in 500,000 get hospitalized and no one has died…yet.
Quoted from cottonm4:I keep waiting for the showdown between the cruise lines and both Texas and Florida.
Agree, the cruise lines have significant amounts of liability if they reopen without appropriate safeguards and have an outbreak on their ships. Eventually it will come down to money, the governors of Texas and Florida may want to make their voters happy but if they are staring billions of dollars from Carnival in the face they will cave.
This topic is closed.
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-coronavirus-containment-thread/page/463 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Manhattan, IL
Alcona, ON
