In trying to understand China's political system, it seem like fear is a bog motivator.

I thought I read where the doctor who discovered this virus in Wuhan was shut down by his local authorities, basically for speaking the truth. I am thinking these local authorities were scared to death to elevate this "problem" and tried to shut the doctor down so he would not "make waves".

In the U.S. we call people like that doctor (who died of Covid) whistleblowers. Whistleblowers are generally not in management's good graces. And the shit does not stop until it reaches the top. In the case of China, I am thinking there was people passing the buck and fear all the way up the chain of command until it got to Xi Jinping---where the buck had to stop.

I worked corporate for 30 years. I saw that chain of command fear in practice when I saw someone who was going to have to give the boss the bad news.

I'm guessing nobody was wanting to be a whistleblower in China.

=========================

As for retribution for China.... ain't gonna happen. Life will go on. We will still keep shopping at Walmart, and at Harbor Freight for the cheap deals. Politicians move on and are replaced. Everything with be a new day for a new deal.

Nice for convenience sake, but it would have been better for the country and infection rates if people kept up the mask mandates through the peak infection rates of late November through mid January. It would have save alot of lives.

Bonjour

Crazy - we are happy about a Daily COVID-19 Death number that is averaging “only” 500 people per day.

Maybe happy that the death rate continues to go down and the virus rates are also still going down, but not happy to settle for 500 deaths a day. Thankfully, the vaccines are working obviously.

I wonder how many deaths I'm responsible for?

Unrelated, I saw several vehicles from the Pacific Northwest on US 95 South in Nevada last Friday. Check this license plate out.

20210521_134157 (resized).jpg

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Most people that got the virus and passed it along will never know if they ended up killing someone, but I've heard a lot of tragic stories about people giving it to their parents or family who then died from it. I'd have a lot of guilt for the rest of my life if I'd don't something like kill my parent because I failed to take the recommended health precautions. My parents are 83 and in good health, but all my siblings stayed 6 feet away and masked for 14 months until we all got vaccinated, precisely because we didn't want to kill them.

Funny that plate, Washington and especially Seattle are big on vaccines, especially with the UW being here. I'll be likely driving that highway in the next week or so too, I'm heading on a road trip to Joshua Tree and then working my way back home through Arizona, Nevada and Utah stopping at Zion, Bryce Canyon and some other places.

Love it!

…but now I am also worried about you using your phone while driving (and tailgating)...

I thought the latest findings were that asymptomatic transmission seems unlikely?

And I wonder if the person responsible for killing my sister with it even knows what they did.

I realize I've had some pretty heavy posts in this thread, and I'm probably a bit raw because I've been cleaning out my dead sisters apartment the last few weeks. You know, the one that injured her foot and needed surgery, who came back from that with Covid and then died from it?

Your question makes me wonder if the person that gave it to her even knows that they did. We have no idea where she got it. Was it the ambulance going to the hospital? Was it in the ER? Was it in the OR? In a hallway from someone? All we know is that is an easily spreadable respiratory virus, and somewhere on that journey someone else had it. Maybe their case was minor, maybe they thought it was "just a flu". Maybe they are also not with us anymore. We'll never know those answers.

I know you were just talking about eating in a restaurant. But overall in America we are all responsible for about 579,041 deaths (according to the CDC). And a huge part of that number traces directly back to us being irresponsible as a society.

G'day guys , we've had a few months here with no local transmissions .
But now the Indian strain is here , we've had around 20 cases and now Victoria has gone into lockdown for a week .
They announced over 40s can now get the vaccination , you're meant to have Pfizer but I rang a place and they had astrazeneca , I thought stuff it , I'll go for it , I just hope I don't get blood clots , I guess I will find out soon enough .

I thought this was a very well written article ...

https://donaldgmcneiljr1954.medium.com/the-end-is-near-no-seriously-142683fb085e

Tell me about it, I spent almost nine months clearing out my mother's assisted living apartment. Also her home to sell after she died of covid (no symptoms, just a test result).

I know I followed every protective protocol that was in effect wherever I was as the whole situation evolved starting in March 2020.

I liked reading this, as well. Next year, I will be getting flu shots with out fail. No more poo-pooing shots.

And I will probably wear a mask in the stores as added protection
( And once Covid is behind us I wonder how long it will be before the stores say you have to uncover your face before you can enter).

Mask restrictions have continued to be lifted here for fully vaccinated individuals (completed the shot(s) and plus 2 weeks).

Schools are still fully masked regardless of vaccination status. 12-15 year olds were only approved for vaccines two weeks ago (on 5/12).

I went maskless for the first time today indoors in a relatively "safe" environment around other people that I'm regularly around. Pretty much everyone else is fully vaccinated as well, or just finishing things up. So, the transmission risk should be practically nil.

However, going without a mask indoors around people felt like I forgot to wear pants or something. It was a bit strange after masking up for over a full year.

I'll probably continue to wear a mask in public areas like walmart for a bit longer where there are more unknowns.

If my kids went to visit relatives in Fort Wayne, Indiana for the summer (from Canada), do you think they could get their second Moderna shots as they don't live in the US? Not sure if they will vaccinate individuals without a permanent address in Indiana? I would gladly pay any fee for the shot as well. Thanks.

Yes. There are signs ALL around me now that there are shots available for ages 12+. Walk-ins allowed.

Hope that didn't come out wrong, I really am super happy that we are down to 500/day and that the trend is going pretty quickly in the right direction. Unbelievably thankful for the vaccines and the effort to get everyone vaccinated.

Just kind of unreal that we feel like we've just about whipped this (but rightly so) and are still losing 3500 people a week. Feels excessive when deaths and serious illness are mostly preventable now. I hope the efforts to get more people vax'd are successful.

Even if they ask for a permanent address, kids aren't expected to have ID so they can just give your relatives' address and get their shots. But I doubt anyone's going to ask too many questions at this point, as most places in the US have plenty of vaccine to go around.

Actually, there are no "approved" COVID vaccines. They are all being used under emergency authorization. That's why we waited until last week to get our first shot...I didn't feel comfortable taking it after only 20,000 people had it during the sped-up trials. Now that a few hundred million people have had it, those of us in fragile health can feel somewhat more confident that there won't be potentially deadly side effects. But they are still not approved yet.

Today., per the website a lot of us look at, it shows 606,728 deaths in the U.S.

I am assuming that we will be breaking another record in the next couple of weeks.

620,000 people died during the U.S. civil war. We are most likely going to surpass that 620,000. Hopefully not. Hoping the vaccine really kicks in and knocks the deaths down to zero.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Most border states like mine are openly saying they will vaccinate people from Canada... so I would think it wouldn't be a problem, save for the fact that Indiana is more conservative.

The toilet paper panic buying has started again but this time they are prepared for it

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Thanks for the feedback everyone. It is really different here in Ontario I think compared to most of the states. My daughter's high school graduation is a drive thru and grad pictures are one person at a time, scheduled over several days. There are no gatherings at the school, etc. They have been doing online classes since December. It's too bad for teenagers as they have missed a big part of their lives being stuck at home for 1.5 years. But that is the current situation.

Compared to my step sister's daughter who just graduated from elementary school last week in Indiana, the auditorium is full of people, no social distancing and no masks in sight. The town I live in, everyone still wears masks outside and you cannot enter a store without a mask on. All of the malls are also still closed until June 2nd and no eat-in dining at restaurants.

Although in the US a larger percentage of the population has had their second vaccine, in Ontario, we have still had 13 deaths of individuals that had both shots (and after the two week waiting period) and 65 deaths of individuals that had their first shot (and after the two week waiting period). So even with both shots, people continue to get sick and die, but at a much lesser rate. Unfortunately, COVID is here to stay.

They are absolutely approved for emergency use. Any argument to the contrary is simply semantics. My original reply was in response to the notion that the vaccines are "experimental", which is obviously not the case.

Emergency fda versus full on FDA approval.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2021/05/27/whats-the-difference-between-full-fda-approval-for-a-vaccine-and-emergency-use-authorization/?outputType=amp

Indian variant will be the dominant strain in Ontario ..So how do our vaccines match up? I'm not removing my mask

Better yet, what about entering Banks without a mask? If some people choose_ to continue mask wearing indoors, say to minimize the year-round risk of catching the flu even if not Covid going forward, what's the new protocol?

Did you mean to say “what about entering banks with a mask”?

If so, then yes, after Covid, how will the banks respond if you are wearing a mask because you have allergies or wish to protect yourself from the flu?

What about if you are one of those who don’t wear the accepted mask?

What if you use a bandana like a cowboy holding up the stage coach?

With things opening up here, the FBI's PSA on vaccination cards keeps being quoted in the news, so I thought I'd point to the source:

https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2021/PSA210330

If you did not receive the vaccine, do not buy fake vaccine cards, do not make your own vaccine cards, and do not fill-in blank vaccination record cards with false information.

any person using, buying, selling or transferring a fraudulent card to another can be fined up to $5000 and/or imprisoned for up to five years, since the creation of such a card would carry a phony seal of a government agency.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/fbi-warns-harsh-penalty-that-comes-with-faking-covid-vaccination-cards/SGBUBY5OK5GKZMIWU5QDBPEV2A/

Bar owner arrested for selling fake vaccination cards: https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2021/05/04/bar-owner-clements-fake-covid-vaccine-cards/

Pharmacy employee arrested for possession of fake cards: https://abc7ny.com/zachary-honig-fake-vaccine-cards-fraudlent-covid/10626825/

Preliminary data indicates there is some drop off, but they hold up pretty darn well. (One small study showed two dose Pfizer was something like 88% effective)

Can you provide a link to this info because when i looked it up there was 14 total deaths yesterday in Ontario and no word on if they were vaccinated. I find it highly unlikely they were all vaccinated with 4% being total vaccinated in your area. Every link i find says same amount of deaths but not a single one says they were vaccinated so I just want to get the facts straight so if you have a link to back up your claim id like to read it. Ive been keeping a close eye on the death rate of fully vaccinated so if true Id like to know the facts.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2021/05/28/ontario-is-reporting-1273-new-covid-19-cases-14-deaths.html

Close call with Anti vaxxer. Thankfully no one was run over. This could have been much worse.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/tennessee-woman-arrested-speeding-covid-19-vaccination-tent/story?id=77937352

I truly doubt anyone entering any business with a mask on will have any problems for years to come. I don't feel comfortable in any business without a mask because there are still many people not vaccinated wearing no mask. The schools here have for the most part been open for most of the year, so kids are still spreading the disease. I hope the youngsters all get the shots.

Do I (dare) say, "Only in America"? A lot of my countrymen are really starting to embarrass me with their stupid "spoiled brat" 8th grade education bullshit.

I think if I were going visit somewhere overseas, I would try to pass myself as an Australian or Canadian. Certainly not as an "Americano".

Just incredible:
117 employees file lawsuit against Houston Methodist for mandating workers to take COVID-19 vaccine:
https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2021/05/28/117-employees-file-lawsuit-against-houston-methodist-for-mandating-workers-to-take-covid-19-vaccine/
Can't believe there are Healthcare workers against the vaccine.

I can believe it.

No one should be forced to take anything. That is a slippery slope. Put yourself in their shoes if your employer said you had to take a shot you weren’t comfortable with.

That lawyer sounds like an idiot: “experimental gene altering vaccine”. Typical anti-vax BS. Anyone who has even a basic understanding of how mRNA vaccines work would know it isn’t gene altering.

I just got the jab , so you're saying there's no chance of me getting X-Men superpowers .

Per the article:

"Dr. Marc Boom, president and CEO of Houston Methodist responded to the lawsuit with the following statement:
As of today, 99 percent of Houston Methodist’s 26,000 employees have met the requirements for the vaccination mandate."

The 1 percenters strike again.

Totally agree, masks will be very normal from now on. I work at a big university in Seattle, masks were quite common among our Asian students when they were sick or during flu season already over the past 6 or 7 years. America is just catching up on the safety precautions. I like that this has now normalized wearing masks for safety forever.

I have been in their shoes. I was in the military. You were not asked. You were asked if you were allergic to anything. But it was "step right up".

And I should not be forced to work with someone who thinks they are above passing this stuff around. You don't want to wear a mask. You don't want to get vaccinated. Fine. Go get a job hauling trash where you don't have to be around anybody. But don't come hanging around me at the water cooler.

I find this is similar to drug testing, wearing ID badges, sexual harassment training, uniforms and wearing pants. An employer has every right to require it and you have the right to walk away and not work there. And with vaccines or masks, we are talking about basic accepted safety standards.

Except that was known before you were hired, and the shots were already FDA approved, not emergency authorized.

Also, to my understanding, the shot doesn't necessarily stop you from "passing this stuff around ", nor acquiring it. NY Yankees anyone?

I don't.
At the end of the day I can remove my ID badge, uniform, and pants.
Sexual harassment training, yeah, its in your head I guess, I'll give you that.

Basic accepted safety standards, there's the sticking point. Who is accepting it? Maybe you, maybe me 2 years from now after I've seen true long term effects. 5 months doesn't tell me a whole lot. Hey, look, cigarettes are fine, I've been smoking a pack a day for 5 months!

Maybe your employer should demand you be a vegetarian, or do yoga three times a week? Maybe they shouldn't allow alcohol or smoking/vaping outside of work hours (or within!)?

I know everyone is on high alert and just wants this "over", but I can't help feel we may be rushing in just a tad.

If you eating steak caused a deadly disease that kills your coworkers, then yes. Your employer should be able to force you to be vegetarian.

The term for this is “reductio ad absurdum” (reduction to absurdity). You are attempting to bring it all the way to absurdity to be able to say it shouldn’t apply. It’s a commonly used fallacy that is pretty disingenuous.