The first link is from the same people who are pushing the treatment and it isn't an scientific study.

The second link is to a retrospective study which has the same issues as a prior study which looked at hydroxychloroquine use (i.e. other known drugs which are known to help COVID such as dexamethasone are used as well). It's not a randomized controlled trial.

The third link is an interview with one of the people who are in the group pushing this treatment, also not a study.

I asked for the study showing that one village in South America where the people were on Ivermectin had no COVID cases while another one whos villagers were not on it had a spike in cases. Find that one?

Here’s my issue with these guys, they seem to be prone to headline seeking and hyperbolic statements. That’s a bit of a red flag in medical research. For example, when Dr. Kory (seems to be their spokesperson) testified in Congress (invited by a Senator who has pushed various conspiracy theories and alternative COVID treatments) he stated several times that there was a “mountain of evidence” supporting Ivermectin use. That’s clearly not the case because I have thus far found a grand total of two published trials in Ivermectin use in COVID, the retrospective study you linked and a newer one that looked at time to recovery and found no benefit in the Ivermectin patients compared to standard treatment. Their website links to what they claim are trials and evidence but those citations aren’t studies, they are testimonials from patients or press releases about their protocol. There might be another study or two out there somewhere but it is certainly not a “mountain of evidence”. Also, Dr. Kory states several times in his testimony that he and his colleagues are “some of the most published physicians in critical care”. That kinda strikes me as a bit of a used car salesman approach. If your data supports you, you don’t have to drop your credentials or try to impress people with how many publications you have. Just put the data out there.

In addition, this guys statement that it wouldn’t be ethical to do a randomized trial on Ivermectin is BS. There are oversight boards in clinical trials and if there is a clear trend towards benefit then the trial is ended early. I think it’s an excuse to not do a clinical trial personally. Also, this group tried to have a study published in a 2nd or 3rd tier journal (Frontier Medicine or some such, I can’t recall the name of it) and it was apparently rejected due to concerns about the validity of the results and flaws in the study design.

Remember the doctors that stood on the Capitol steps and swore Hydroxychloroquine was the magic cure? Where’d they go?

Yeah, I’ll wait for more data on Ivermectin before deciding.

Trying to set up shop from zero to vaccinate 300 million people, countrywide, from all walks of life, is going to have start up issues. There are going to be a lot of long lines. Not trying to make light of what you are dealing with, but no matter how much money and many resources are applied to the vaccination program, it is going to take time.

It’s not the lines or waiting that bother me. It’s the fact that they let every healthcare group in the state just set up their own system, instead of having everyone coordinate through VAMS. It’s turned into a game of “who’s on the right portal when it’s being updated”. Elderly people like my parents and people who are dealing with other health concerns are exhausted by it and are giving up, which is leaving them way more vulnerable than younger, healthier folks who don’t mind jumping between tabs and hitting refresh a gazillion times.

Yesterday there were new 67,000 cases of Covid and 2,300 deaths reported. Its just baffling what Tx, La and Mississippi are thinking right now. The longer this goes on the more the virus has a chance to mutate.

I saw a news story last night. They were covering a pharmacy in a predominantly black neighborhood where they had both Moderna and J&J (one dose) vaccines from which the public could choose either. It is a very small sample but was interesting to see that about 2/3 selected the one dose J&J vaccine mostly because it was easier to be finished with the vaccination process. The J&J vaccine availability really could be a game changer.

Where to next? It looks like the downward movement has slowed at around 2000 deaths per day.

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My wife was able to pre-register with our local vaccine program. She works in housing support for challenged individuals, so she has a lot of face to face interactions and regularly has to go into other peoples houses. Her company is listed as front line workers, so she’ll receive her shot long before I get mine.

For the USA it will take some time. I heard that you will have enough doses by the end of may, but if everyone needs 2 doses; then that’s another ~400-500 million shots to go into peoples arms. There’s less then 80 days until the end of March, even if you worked at it for 12h/day 7 days a week, you’d need to vaccinate like 500k people per hour across the country. That’s an incredible pace, not impossible, but incredible.

We have 2 hospitals here in Topeka KS not counting the VA and 1 has no COVID for the first time since March 17 2020 and the other only has 16 COVID patients. Very encouraging numbers, considering not to far back both were at max capacity!

I don't find it baffling at all. We are not talking about the issues with the power grid or the water in Texas anymore. And the funnier part is, even saying it like that, I'm not talking about the horrific mismanagement of the power grid or water supply there. When Texas changes a subject, they change it big. As for the other states, I made the assumption that they were really saying "We would also like you to stop talking about the mismanagement of the electric grid in Texas, and so we will support them with changing the subject". That's just how unity works.

Oh, I see. That is dumb. It is like when the states were left to their own devises last year and were competing with each other for limited PPE supplies.

Doctor: your opinion on the Brazil variant slowly wiping out the Country? Re infection has been confirmed. It's out of the country .

In NYC some smart kid created this aggregate site for vaccine availability. It streamlined the process sharply...pretty easy to get an appointment through this site these days, at least until the other 50 percent or so of the city becomes eligible.

Check it out
https://www.turbovax.info/

Here too you have the state thru dept of health administering shots and also hospital networks.

To make it even more confusing, depending on how the networks are set up, there can be multiple points of data entry as well.

Take something like Hospital A which is in both MN and WI with patients that cross the border all the time (MN resident that goes to WI clinic and reverse). The clinic is Discouraged to register the MN resident for the WI clinic vaccine. So they sign up thru random Hospital A MN clinic.

Now for the fun part

Except that their WI clinic is actually administered by a MN affiliate so when they call the rando MN clinic, they are told they are not in the system and to either call dept of health or their old clinic. Old clinic stands by their guidance of not registering out of state patients. But then also says that hey maybe try calling the specifically affiliated MN clinic office that runs the WI clinic. In the mean time when the patient shows up for a scheduled visit at the WI clinic, there is some extra vaccine left and they hurry up and get the shot.

They then over the next few weeks get call after call from everyone and their mother trying to get them on the schedule for a vaccine.

Purely hypothetical of course...

Randomized trial results published in JAMA today.

"Key Points
Question
What is the effect of ivermectin on duration of symptoms in adults with mild COVID-19?

Findings
In this randomized clinical trial that included 476 patients, the duration of symptoms was not significantly different for patients who received a 5-day course of ivermectin compared with placebo (median time to resolution of symptoms, 10 vs 12 days; hazard ratio for resolution of symptoms, 1.07).

Meaning
The findings do not support the use of ivermectin for treatment of mild COVID-19, although larger trials may be needed to understand effects on other clinically relevant outcomes."

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2777389?resultClick=1

Throw it on the COVID snake oil scrap heap.

That great news and congrats to this kid. Well done!

Yep, that's the study I was referencing in my post above. Agree it warrants further study and I wouldn't discount it based on one study but it didn't seem to have much effect. Again, makes me VERY suspicious of any doctor that goes before Congress or onto various news outlets and proclaims it to be a miracle cure.

I get it. Your a physician and that is part of the practice of medicine. I work in the pharma industry myself and agree with you.

With that said, if the drugs being discussed have few to no side effects and are being studied due to lower level evidence suggesting they may have a benefit, I personally have no problem with taking them as supplements for now. The reality is if I get Covid, unless I end up in the hospital or require oxygen supplementation, there isn't really anything out there I'd likely be given or have access to early on to try to mitigate and keep it from worsening (I know a couple of IV MAB drugs are now available for early Covid cases but it is still difficult to get access to these unless you are older or are deemed to be in a high risk category).

I already was taking famotidine for GERD and Quecertin for allergies/mast cell control before Covid. I now also take a daily D3 supplement along with vitamin C. I also take melatonin 3-5 nights a week since increasingly studies from reputable sources (Cleveland Clinic, etc) are saying it may be one of the best emerging repurposed drug options readily available. I also take a B vitamin supplement for now as well.

I get no side effects from any of these vitamins/supplements (well, maybe drowsiness in the morning from melatonin) and all have been proven to be quite safe. Once I'm vaccinated and we are clearly emerging from all of this, I'll scale some of it back some but even as a pharma employee, I'm okay with some of these supplements and vitamins as long as I'm not taking unsafe amounts (I'm not) and not getting side effects.

1 year ago ivermectin had great in vitro data from Australia vs Covid. The problem is, to get equivalent tissue concentration an oral dose is needed that far exceeds what is tolerable (as I understand). The only way to get such massive oral doses is to buy a tube of equine ivermectin paste (as a neighbour of mine did!), but I suspect the side effects might be an issue. So my question would be- do the oral doses administered achieve adequate blood levels, and would adequate blood levels be tolerable? Also, is oral dosing even possible to achieve these blood levels? What dose calculation was used for this study (I'd be quite concerned their dose was too low).

On the plus side, ivermectin is an old, cheap, well-established generally safe drug.

There is a rosacea ivermectin cream licensed in the UK, the data sheet for which includes a lot of useful information:

https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/6819

So overall- not snake oil IMO, but viable vs Covid? Don't know.

In-laws checked with their life-insurance carrier, due to vaccines considered experimental if death is found to be caused by vaccine policy will not pay out. Not sure which carriers have this policy.

I have run over 90 pinball tournaments since May 15, 2020. Avg 35 players at each. 0 cases of COVID transmission. Masks are required and are actually worn the entire time by players. I played in almost all of them. I personally checked everyone in and collected cash from most of the players. I never got COVID and neither did anyone in my household. Masks work.
I’m running 10 tournaments a month right now. You want to play, come to Wisconsin.

Evan if it dont work for covid at least it will kill your horses worms and only $3.49 at your local tractor supply store with lots of good rewiews

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In The Netherlands new cases were going up again a little lately, but the positive news is that elderly have died less than average this month, instead of (sometimes way) more than average. I think that's a first in a year, and though it's not 100% sure, it seems that vaccinating the elderly has helped quite a lot: that's hopefull! Let's hope vaccination production will be higher than expected, so that soon most groups can be vaccinated (if they're willing to, but I think most people will get a vaccine as soon as they can).

So have most there 65 and over had the opportunity to be vaccinated already? Here in my state, they just lowered the eligible age down to anyone over 50. Anyone overweight or with diabetes, asthma, etc are now eligible as well. Our governor is saying anyone that wants a vaccine will likely have the opportunity to get one by the end of April.

Hopefully the timeline is similar in the Netherlands and throughout the EU. We (My parents and my sister's family) are hoping to visit Germany and Belgium (Ghent & Bruges) for the Christmas markets in December. We are crossing our fingers and hoping the vaccines are highly effective and Europe and the world are in a lot better place 9 months from now.

An approved vaccine should no longer be considered experimental. I'd have to check my policy but I doubt there is verbiage to the effect any medical intervention given emergency use authorization is considered experimental and will void this policy (experimental maybe but an approved vaccine no longer falls into thst category). Doesn't seem that would hold up under any legal scrutiny.

The vaccines appear to be working for the elderly:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/02/26/covid-cases-nursing-homes-plummet-89-residents-vaccinate/6814027002/

This isn't a 1 size fits all situation. Densely populated urban centers are where most of the transmissions are, rural areas and smaller cities aren't having near the numbers and R values are under 1. There are ways of containing this with a surgical approach not trying to kill a fly with a sledgehammer. Rural areas where cases are low should have less restrictions. Rapid testing for everyone would really help get it under control if you could test 3 times a week before you leave your house, this whole thing would be under control by summer.

I have friends in Texas and they are simply doing what they can to protect themselves, nothing much has changed really except for the frustration of nobody wearing masks out in stores. I'm sure you are taking this approach. If it happened here I'd just do what I was doing in March...shopping in off hours, and generally avoiding people.

I wanted to thumbs up this statement, but then hit that quandary of feeling like I was thumbing up spikes. I'm just assuming that everywhere that is getting rid of the mandates will spike. Which is just a shame. We are within a four months of having enough vaccines for all adults (I added an extra month for issues). So somewhere, someone is going to catch it a week before they would have been vaccinated. It's like dropping the ball right before you cross the line for a touchdown.

Re: rural vs urban

Not really been true in the states.

Main difference has been on timing, not on severity. Cities get a lot of press because 10% of 5 million is a lot more people than 20% of 5000. But locally, it is a bfd regardless.

Also, it isn’t as if the virus stops at the county line. So the small town may seem like it has nothing to fear, but that is false. It just isn’t on fire yet. Plenty of kindling to go around if you aren’t careful.

Is the CDC being unreasonable expecting people not to travel, and not to gather after being vaccinated? I don't see a vast majority of American's following that guideline after being vaccinated.

"Unfortunately, vaccination is not a free pass to travel".

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/05/health/cdc-vaccinated-covid-19-guidelines-wait/index.html

It's really quite humorous actually, so our governor says next week we can go maskless... yet most big business has stated they will still "enforce" the mask rules.. but they are not doing that 'today'. I still see hordes of maskless fools, or nose exposed masked fools.

Thank goodness we're getting closer to the good old days. Allegiant Airlines is allowing middle seats to be occupied today.
Also, Michigan is easing up on the restrictions....

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Agree with that. I do read about positive things happening with it but maybe not enough to justify its use. Another post I came across:

Just wanted to add to this thread as my wife has suffered post covid migraines for 42 days straight. After getting ZERO help from any of her physicians (including at John Hopkins) we were at wits end. Fortunately, my career in healthcare gave me the opportunity to find a physician willing to help. Every other physician prescribed Steroids, told her to just take Morton and Tylenol, or Suggested she enroll in studies that begin mid April! Not a single physician would prescribe ivermectin. They literally said no we won’t do it and it won’t help. I even demanded it and argued the benefit significantly outweighs the limited risk. They simply didn’t care. It was like they were told not to prescribe it. Responses were almost scripted.

Once I found someone that was willing, the CVS pharmacy told us they don’t have it, won’t get it, and can’t fill it! To say I was pissed off is an understatement. As a last resort I actually bought the Ivermectin for horses. We were actually going to take it, if we had to. Fortunately, we found a small mom and pop pharmacy that could fill the script.

I’m happy to report that 36 hours after her first day of Ivermectin 12mg, VD, and Zinc she is completely migraine free without any Motrin/Tylenol!

Ivermectin is an antiparastic. It has no effect on headache. In fact, headache is a fairly common side effect to ivermectin use. 42 days post COVID this person should not have had any circulating virus so there is no clinical justification to prescribing Ivermectin here. The long term effects of COVID are related to inflammation from the infection, not continuing infection with virus. Most likely this was placebo effect.

I’m curious as to where you found this post, do you have a link?

Is this story about shopping around in Dr’s offices until you can find one to believe your self diagnosis? If multiple Dr’s won’t prescribe it, maybe it’s not a proven cure.

It reminds me of weed before it became legal. People would go to multiple Dr’s until they found one that would give them a prescription, just so they could get high. I know 2 guys that did this.

Even if the one dose regimen may turn out to be less effective. I am in the ongoing J & J two shot trial. I think it will show to be better than one. I get my second shot on March 17 at which point I will request to be unblinded so I know whether I got the vaccine or placebo. Frankly, given the fact their one dose vaccine is now approved along with two others, there are ethical questions in my mind about them continuing on with a blinded, placebo controlled trial anyway.

I have followed the vaccine development closely and work for one of the companies developing one of these vaccines. From what I know right now, I would choose the Pfizer two shot regimen over one dose of J &J. Sure one dose is more convenient but if you are older or fall into a high risk category, my opinion is that Pfizers appears to be the best of the bunch.

One more reason I won't fly Allegiant. Look, we all want to get back to the good 'ol days. We aren't there yet, though. I understand your frustration if you've been in a state completely locked down for a while, though. My state has been more open than the loosening standards in Michigan you screen shot for months now.

People are jumping the gun right as we are on the cusp of getting the majority of the country the opportunity to get vaccinated and really have a chance of getting there. That will only take a few more months.

After all we've been through as a country, I honestly don't understand why politicians in places like Texas and so many are once again politicizing this pandemic and demanding we throw caution to wind and all common sense guidelines out the window right now. The lack of patience and perspective is disappointing and frankly staggeringly stupid..

Last fall when the Irish played Clemson the first time, I kissed my ring finger 3 times and smacked the top of the door exactly 10 seconds before kick off and the Irish won.

The second time I was off by 15 seconds and they lost.

Coincidence? I think not.

You can still get it and spread it after being vaccinated. They are being cautious with the message.

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Yeah, we’re on our way to the good old days alright. Above is yesterday’s latest greatest. We’re now desensitized to the numbers. There’s still going to be a lot of people that won’t get the vaccine and can die. I agree we are on our way with basically a cure but 16 states throwing caution to the with masks and restrictions right now is premature. WTF man. Unbelievable...

The biggest difference is we're not packed in on top of each other. Guidelines on cdc still say 6' OR a mask not both. Pretty easy to keep distance when the next house is 1/4 mile away. 16 cases in a town of 30,000 does not require the same restrictions as LA. Seems common sense isn't so common anymore.

We flew Allegiant last week (They have great unadvertised discounts for Veterans and their families) and our plane looked like that. The flight attendants were VERY strict with passengers about wearing their masks, and wearing them properly. And lots of announcements pre-flight about how they'd kick you off the plane if you didn't wear your mask, ect., ect.

We got Covid in Dec/January. And as a result, felt safe enough to travel and mix with masked crowds. As a precaution, we got Covid tests post-trip and as expected they came back negative.

We saw pretty good masking in the Orlando area, and 100% masking in Disney World. But of course, anyone going to Disney doesn't want to risk a lifetime ban by not complying.
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Also, apparently I'm supposed to be getting my 1st Dose of the vaccine on Mar. 15th. I was notified by the VA yesterday. I guess the VA must have their own supply of vaccines separate from what the State gets, and their own rules for who gets it. I'm 34 with no real risk-factors, other than being a bit overweight. When I contracted the virus a couple months ago, I had no severe symptoms either. It doesn't really seem right to me that I'm going to be getting a vaccine does ahead of a lot of people at greater risk, but I'm not going to go out of my way to cancel my appt. I figure the VA hospital must have some sort of plan for distributing their vaccine doses, and I'm not going to question it. Especially, because I don't want any vaccine doses to go to waste, and I don't know how many other Veterans have been vaccinated by the VA all ready in my area.

Still trying to get my Step-Father his vaccine. He's 66 and has Parkinsons Disease, but he's not a Veteran, so it's not like I can give him my appt. or anything. I'm hoping he'll be getting his soon.

This is not true for our state, unless you're not accounting for population.

As of beginning of February, 1 in 500 South Dakotans have died and 1 in 8 have had covid. Poster child for lax restrictions and doesn’t get much more rural than that.

They spent a good portion of the last year shipping patients out of state because their hospital networks were completely overloaded as well.