Alcona, ON
Quoted from pinballcorpse:"social media opinion-itis" is pretty dangerous.
Depends on the platform. For instance this thread , better have stats/articles back it up.
(Topic ID: 264520)
This topic is closed.
Yutan, NE
Quoted from plowpusher:Any longhaulers should give this a watch and get some ivermectin as it show 85 % improvement
My understanding is that at best it warrants further study. At worst it is just another iteration of hydroxy. The data just isn’t there yet for folks to be calling up their docs to request a script.
Those guys may think they got lightning in a bottle, but it needs to be replicated by other scientists before I would get my hopes up.
A good primer :
https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/
Some highlights:
Some clinical studies showed no benefits or worsening of disease after ivermectin use,21-24 whereas others reported shorter time to resolution of disease manifestations that were attributed to COVID-19,25-28 greater reduction in inflammatory marker levels,26,27 shorter time to viral clearance,21,26 or lower mortality rates in patients who received ivermectin than in patients who received comparator drugs or placebo.21,26,28
However, most of these studies had incomplete information and significant methodological limitations, which make it difficult to exclude common causes of bias. These limitations include:
The sample size of most of the trials was small.
Various doses and schedules of ivermectin were used.
Some of the randomized controlled trials were open-label studies in which neither the participants nor the investigators were blinded to the treatment arms.
Patients received various concomitant medications (e.g., doxycycline, hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, zinc, corticosteroids) in addition to ivermectin or the comparator drug. This confounded the assessment of the efficacy or safety of ivermectin.
The severity of COVID-19 in the study participants was not always well described.
The study outcome measures were not always clearly defined.
I had a patient ask me about Ivermectin last week. He said he heard on Facebook it "wiped out COVID 100%".
I told him essentially what Oaken said above, it needs further study. We don't have enough information to determine if it is a possible drug in the arsenal to fight COVID. I did tell him that I have seen no study that shows it works "100%" and to take what he reads on social media with a grain of salt.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:I had a patient ask me about Ivermectin last week. He said he heard on Facebook it "wiped out COVID 100%".
I told him essentially what Oaken said above, it needs further study. We don't have enough information to determine if it is an possible drug in the arsenal to fight COVID. I did tell him that I have seen no study that shows it works "100%" and to take what he reads on social media with a grain of salt.
It's doubtful we get clinic trials done to repurpose this off patent drug as it's so cheap to use . Just lots of real world user's who have had great results to back it up . Very safe as well . I know if i get covid i will use it as there is no real risk to give it a try .
Quoted from PantherCityPins:I had a patient ask me about Ivermectin last week. He said he heard on Facebook it "wiped out COVID 100%".
I told him essentially what Oaken said above, it needs further study. We don't have enough information to determine if it is an possible drug in the arsenal to fight COVID. I did tell him that I have seen no study that shows it works "100%" and to take what he reads on social media with a grain of salt.
If they heard it on FB it must be true 
Studies of ivermectin will continue to be slow due to the no profit model for big pharmaceuticals. But they have tested it in South America and they are finding entire neighborhoods testing negative for covid that take it daily where a placebo in a nearby neighborhood having spiked positive covid results.
Quoted from plowpusher:It's doubtful we get clinic trials done to repurpose this off patent drug as it's so cheap to use . Just lots of real world user's who have had great results to back it up . Very safe as well . I know if i get covid i will use it as there is no real risk to give it a try .
There's lots of money available from government grants for COVID research. The problem with "real world users" is that is what is called anecdotal evidence and you can't make good clinical decisions from it. There was a RCT done recently which showed no improvement in patients who were given Ivermectin vs placebo and other treatment. More studies should be coming in the next 3-6 months.
Quoted from JimB:But they have tested it in South America and they are finding entire neighborhoods testing negative for covid that take it daily where a placebo in a nearby neighborhood having spiked positive covid results.
Can you provide a link to this study? I'd like to take a look at it.
Thanks.
Quoted from JimB:Studies of ivermectin will continue to be slow due to the no profit model for big pharmaceuticals. But they have tested it in South America and they are finding entire neighborhoods testing negative for covid that take it daily where a placebo in a nearby neighborhood having spiked positive covid results.
Got any links so we can read about what you are sort of quoting?
Quoted from cottonm4:Got any links so we can read about what you are sort of quoting?
FLCCC
Quoted from PantherCityPins:I had a patient ask me about Ivermectin last week. He said he heard on Facebook it "wiped out COVID 100%".
I told him essentially what Oaken said above, it needs further study. We don't have enough information to determine if it is a possible drug in the arsenal to fight COVID. I did tell him that I have seen no study that shows it works "100%" and to take what he reads on social media with a grain of salt.
What are your thoughts on melatonin, quecertin, famotidine, etc for prophylaxis or to reduce mild symptomatic disease? I’ve read they are all being studied. How about statins and finasteride? Any benefit to those?
I’ve read about research done to repurpose existing drugs and supplements against COVID and all of these made the possibilities list.
Quoted from Utesichiban:What are your thoughts on melatonin, quecertin, famotidine, etc for prophylaxis or to reduce mild symptomatic disease? I’ve read they are all being studied. How about statins and finasteride? Any benefit to those?
I’ve read about research done to repurpose existing drugs and supplements against COVID and all of these made the possibilities list.
E480DBB3-6316-4261-9796-83AD72ED9982 (resized).jpegThe Front Line COVID Critical Care Alliance is a group of physicians who have been pushing various cures and protocols for COVID without controlled clinical trial evidence. While I think their intentions are good, their methods have been questioned by many in the medical field and they have yet to publish or show any data that supports what they recommend.
I'm not anti-Ivermectin, but if you say it has been "tested" in South America with placebo trials I'd simply like to see that study. I've looked and can't find one myself.
I googled, Ivermectin test in South America. This was the top article. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02958-2
way down it mentions a small test
https://www.argentina.gob.ar/noticias/un-estudio-demuestra-la-respuesta-antiviral-de-la-ivermectina-en-pacientes-con-covid-19
Quoted from Utesichiban:What are your thoughts on melatonin, quecertin, famotidine, etc for prophylaxis or to reduce mild symptomatic disease? I’ve read they are all being studied. How about statins and finasteride? Any benefit to those?
I’ve read about research done to repurpose existing drugs and supplements against COVID and all of these made the possibilities list.
My position on any new treatment is that I want to see data that supports its use before I recommend it to a patient.
As neutral an article on the FLCCC that I could pull up quickly.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/90552
Basically they state front and center that their treatments do not pass scientific rigor, and then try to justify it. This is done to preemptively neuter criticism.
It is true science takes time. But there are good reasons for this. Personally, anything they advocate is a hard pass until they or someone else has real scientific data to back up the claims.
Otherwise, you could end up just buying tiger stones.
FTR - If I offended anyone with my flippant manner, just know I am all for cheaper, widely available alternative treatments to work. Many actual clinical studies have been done on them or are in progress - HCQ, famotidine, ivermectin, oleandrin, quercetin, zinc, D, C, etc. I take Zinc, D, and C everyday myself bc it prob can't hurt and may help.
My problem is the huge appetite of some groups/celebs/politicians to declare these treatments effective in the absence of clinical trials, touting 'clinical papers' spread around social media, etc as proof the pandemic could be stopped and the economy could reopen if only blah blah blah.
"Big Pharma" is not stopping pursuit of these studies. See https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/ and https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-drugs-treatments.html for great information on trials. NIH is spreading money around like drunken sailors on just about anything.
The FLCCC guys seem earnest to me, but they aren't doing research/trials. Their Math+ protocol that includes ivermectin, a statin, zinc, D, famotidine, and melatonin (6 things that prob won't hurt and may help) - also include heparin (blood thinner) and methylprednisone (steroid) - two things that have been proven to work. Their claims about the rest of the cocktail are unproven as far as I can tell.
Didn't we all go over this with the fish tank stuff almost a year ago, and the other junk the mypillow guy was shilling?
It takes more than a youtube link or Laura Ingraham's endorsement to get me excited about a COVID cure. Science is way more interesting than snake oil for me.
And science + industry has been doing a pretty good job, what with the warp speed vaccines and all!
Quoted from PantherCityPins:The Front Line COVID Critical Care Alliance is a group of physicians who have been pushing various cures and protocols for COVID without controlled clinical trial evidence. While I think their intentions are good, their methods have been questioned by many in the medical field and they have yet to publish or show any data that supports what they recommend.
I'm not anti-Ivermectin, but if you say it has been "tested" in South America with placebo trials I'd simply like to see that study. I've looked and can't find one myself.
This is the problem we need the CDC and WHO to conduct some clinical trials to see if this promising drug has merit so the medical field can use it with confidence and establish use rates . As of now only some random controlled studies for the use on covid so its hard for ivermectin to be prescribed correctly . Being off patent and so cheap no pharma is going pay for a study.
Most people will not click on a link without an explanation of some sort. Too many viruses and exploits.
NEW: Issuing an executive order to lift the mask mandate and open Texas to 100 percent.
Today's announcement doesn’t abandon safe practices that Texans have mastered over the past year. Instead, it’s a reminder that each person has a role to play in their own personal safety & the safety of others.
With this executive order, we are ensuring that all businesses and families in Texas have the freedom to determine their own destiny.
Seems irresponsible and premature to me, but I don't think the rest of the country is taking any lessons from how they do things in Texas this year.
In the decades to come the complete and total politicization of the worst public health crisis in a century is going to fascinate scholars. I hope we've learned some lessons so we can deal better with the next pandemic - which surely isn't gonna take another 100 years to arrive. Can't say I'm too hopeful though.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:Can you provide a link to this study? I'd like to take a look at it.
Thanks.
https://www.thehulltruth.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1123547&d=1612577031
Use of Ivermectin Is Associated With Lower Mortality in Hospitalized Patients With Coronavirus Disease 2019: The Ivermectin in COVID Nineteen Study
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33065103/
Scientific article in Chest Magazine, an esteemed medical journal which Pulmonologists read routinely.
Quoted from Daditude:NEW: Issuing an executive order to lift the mask mandate and open Texas to 100 percent.
Today's announcement doesn’t abandon safe practices that Texans have mastered over the past year. Instead, it’s a reminder that each person has a role to play in their own personal safety & the safety of others.
With this executive order, we are ensuring that all businesses and families in Texas have the freedom to determine their own destiny.
COVID spike in Texas incoming...
Things are looking better overall but it is very premature to declare Texas 100% open and remove the masking mandate in my opinion. I hope I'm wrong.
Quoted from Daditude:NEW: Issuing an executive order to lift the mask mandate and open Texas to 100 percent.
Today's announcement doesn’t abandon safe practices that Texans have mastered over the past year. Instead, it’s a reminder that each person has a role to play in their own personal safety & the safety of others.
With this executive order, we are ensuring that all businesses and families in Texas have the freedom to determine their own destiny.
This was per news outlets just a bit ago. I would never say that Texans have "mastered" safe practices, lol
Quoted from Daditude:With this executive order, we are ensuring that all businesses and families in Texas have the freedom to determine their own destiny.
This reads like something a 50y/o wine mom would write after posting a pic of her and the other Karen's drinking at Applebee's.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:COVID spike in Texas incoming...
Things are looking better overall but it is very premature to declare Texas 100% open and remove the masking mandate in my opinion. I hope I'm wrong.
My first thought was manslaughter charges for excess deaths. I realize that may sound controversial, but I’m not joking here. At some point public policy needs to have ramifications. I understand that Governor Abbott is just doing what he thinks is the most political point making course, but it’s dumb. Here is not only no benefit, but it is harmful to the citizens he governs. I really hate that this is how decisions are made now.
And I know he would never be charged even if this leads to thousands of deaths. We are beyond the point of holding our elected officials accountable. And that’s also a shame.
Quoted from Daditude:NEW: Issuing an executive order to lift the mask mandate and open Texas to 100 percent.
Today's announcement doesn’t abandon safe practices that Texans have mastered over the past year. Instead, it’s a reminder that each person has a role to play in their own personal safety & the safety of others.
With this executive order, we are ensuring that all businesses and families in Texas have the freedom to determine their own destiny.
Unbelievable. How long did the 100 day mask request last...50 days or so?
Quoted from Daditude:This was per news outlets just a bit ago. I would never say that Texans have "mastered" safe practices, lol
Oof. I feel so bad for the working class that are at the mercy of their employers to keep them safe.
Quoted from Daditude:Today's announcement doesn’t abandon safe practices that Texans have mastered over the past year.
This part is pretty funny. Everyone I know from Texas complains about how terrible their community is at safe masking and social distancing practices.
Quoted from hAbO:Unbelievable. How long did the 100 day mask request last...50 days or so?
I believe the 100 day mask mandate you're referring to is a federal mandate, and does not apply to states. Only federal areas.
Well, I guess Texas is throwing caution to the wind. I can't imagine what the consequences of that will look like in a couple weeks.
Quoted from ForceFlow:Well, I guess Texas is throwing caution to the wind. I can't imagine what the consequences of that will look like in a couple weeks.
Me either.
There are still TONS of people down here that don't take it seriously already. I expect major spikes.
Quoted from ForceFlow:Well, I guess Texas is throwing caution to the wind. I can't imagine what the consequences of that will look like in a couple weeks.
Quoted from Daditude:There are still TONS of people down here that don't take it seriously already. I expect major spikes.
^ Uh yep, this by factor 100 likely! "don't mess with my freedom"
As my aviator will show, I'll still be donning my facial accessory. I'm one of the ugly ones who have benefited from this mandate. 
Look at all the chicks I've picked up!
75268-294x192 (resized).jpgQuoted from Daditude:Me either.
There are still TONS of people down here that don't take it seriously already. I expect major spikes.
That's my concern as well. The people who are being responsible and have some common sense are probably going to continue to do what they're doing for the most part. While the anti-masker crowd, who were barely following health recommendations to begin with, are probably going to take this as being open season on everything and that the pandemic is over.
I'm guessing some of the responsible folks will lock themselves down even more knowing that the irresponsible folks will be going around completely unhindered. I probably would if I were down there.
Florida has been open for awhile, from experience, there was pretty much 100% masked people in grocery stores, big box stores etc. But almost non existent in restaurants and convenience stores, I’m guessing it’d be the same in Texas. Hell when I was in the Dallas area in November, it wasn’t like there were many restrictions then either, haha.
Quoted from smalltownguy2:I believe the 100 day mask mandate you're referring to is a federal mandate, and does not apply to states. Only federal areas.
This is true, many states have had mask mandates in place for a lot longer. My state's has been in place for 9 months.
Quoted from smalltownguy2:I believe the 100 day mask mandate you're referring to is a federal mandate, and does not apply to states. Only federal areas.
Understood, however it was a request and plea also for the the US, States and people to do it. Its like some states just don't understand the science or "get it". The numbers of infections and deaths were finally lowering. With the Governor essentially sanctioning that masks don't need to be worn it gives the whackadoos the OK. Meanwhile the longer this goes on the more it mutates.
So long as the spike stays on paper/computer and not the ICU I'm ok with this.
If I recall correctly, one of the original messages was distance > mask.
All I am fairly certain of is that well probably see a large uptick in teen pregnancy when this is over. Or lotion sales.
Quoted from Jaybird815:Florida has been open for awhile, from experience, there was pretty much 100% masked people in grocery stores, big box stores etc. But almost non existent in restaurants and convenience stores, I’m guessing it’d be the same in Texas. Hell when I was in the Dallas area in November, it wasn’t like there were many restrictions then either, haha.
I live near Dallas and work in Dallas. I would guesstimate that 25-33% of people already arent wearing masks in grocery stores and retail stores...not to mention the ones that arent wearing them properly. Its more like 75% that arent wearing them in restaurants and convenience stores. Of course, the further you go out from "the big city," the fewer people are wearing them.
Quoted from Daditude:I live near Dallas and work in Dallas. I would guesstimate that 25-33% of people already arent wearing masks in grocery stores and retail stores...not to mention the ones that arent wearing them properly. Its more like 75% that arent wearing them in restaurants and convenience stores. Of course, the further you go out from "the big city," the fewer people are wearing them.
That's just nuts! There is 100% compliance in all stores here in Seattle, people yell at you and you are kicked out if you don't where one. It's now part of the social contract, like wearing pants. The only businesses where masks come off are in restaurants and bars, and those are mostly outside seating with 25% indoor capacity and 6 feet between tables/seats/pinball rules and all the staff must be masked.
Quoted from nwpinball:That's just nuts! There is 100% compliance in all stores here in Seattle, people yell at you and you are kicked out if you don't where one. It's now part of the social contract, like wearing pants. The only businesses where masks come off are in restaurants and bars, and those are mostly outside seating with 25% indoor capacity and 6 feet between tables/seats/pinball rules and all the staff must be masked.
Around here I saw a road sign showing the proper way to wear a mask which is over your nose. But there are always the ones who think they are better than all others.
Quoted from Daditude:There are still TONS of people down here that don't take it seriously already. I expect major spikes.
Apparently, it isn't just in Texas where they aren't taking it seriously. I can't say I blame the governor when this kind of irresponsible leadership is out of his control. And I imagine this crisis is going to get much worse.
https://nypost.com/2021/03/03/migrants-in-texas-who-tested-positive-for-covid-reportedly-released/
Holy cow, the CT vax portal is such a mess to navigate! I’ve come across at least three separate systems that you need to register for and look at to see if any appointments are available—you could do just one but then you miss out on the other options. My 87 year old parents were in the first group but they haven’t gotten vaccinated yet bc their appointments aren’t until Friday. Meanwhile my husband just became eligible on Monday and it took me until today to book him an appointment, but luckily I was able to get him something for Next Weds to get the J&J vaccine. And of course there are people who qualified and got the shot on Monday.
Are other states this difficult to deal with??!!
Quoted from DaWezl:Holy cow, the CT vax portal is such a mess to navigate! I’ve come across at least three separate systems that you need to register for and look at to see if any appointments are available—you could do just one but then you miss out on the other options. My 87 year old parents were in the first group but they haven’t gotten vaccinated yet bc their appointments aren’t until Friday. Meanwhile my husband just became eligible on Monday and it took me until today to book him an appointment, but luckily I was able to get him something for Next Weds to get the J&J vaccine. And of course there are people who qualified and got the shot on Monday.
Are other states this difficult to deal with??!!
In a word, yes.
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