This topic is closed.
Look folks all I am trying to say is that a “healthy” person rarely dies from the beer virus.
There seems to be either a diagnosed or undiagnosed health issue that makes them more susceptible to death.
Thus inflating the only cause death recorded numbers to be higher than they probably should.
This is scare mongering IMO.
Politicians and media appear to use this data as a tool to create rules and policies to infringe on our freedom.
Quoted from oldskool1969:We are all entitled to an opinion
I think that’s the real issue here - everyone thinks their opinion has value or is somehow equal or greater to others. It’s not. Some people’s opinions matter more because they are backed by facts and knowledge.
This idea that your opinion matters is how we end up with nearly 300,000 dead from a virus that can be blocked by a piece of fabric.
Quoted from oldskool1969:Thats great, but he too could be wrong? There are way too many differing answers from different fields to say this is the only fact. The numbers of death reported are lunacy IMO. You can always pick an extreme measure to prove a point, but generally that's what people who aren't open to discussion do.
It all depends on where you get the information and how you ingest it.
Happy to be alive
Science works by developing and testing hypotheses, and slowly refining opinions, so of course there can be different opinions. However, as these hypotheses are tested, the results start to point to specific facts and you start to gain a general consensus, minus the occasional “flat-earther” outlier. If you’ve followed this thread from day 1, you can see that PantherCityPins has consistently presented the current general consensus and shared additional context from his experience. Yes there are doctors and nurses and scientists who may disagree with the conclusions he shares, but as we get more and more results collected and the facts become clearer, there is less and less evidence supporting those outlying opinions.
Quoted from chad:Priest dies after taking doses of moderna vaccine. Death cause unknown but suspect.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/philadelphia-priest-dies-after-participating-moderna-covid-vaccine-trial
Seeing this got all the way through post approval, ZeroHedge shouldn’t be considered a trusted news source. I’ll leave it up to the reader to decide that on their own. But this article was written by Tyler Durden, the renowned founder of Fight Club. You may think his real name would of course be Jack, but instead it is Данаил Иванджийски. (See what I did there? I wrote the name he was born with instead of his Americanized current one)
Correlation is not causation. I’m pretty sure that if I ran a study of putting a single drop of water on the toenail with 30,000 people, many of them older in their 70s and 80s, some of them would die. People just happen to die in studies, and it is the job of the people running them to figure out the actual causes. Calling it “unknown but suspect” with no actual knowledge about either of them just gives conspiracy theories fertilizer to grow.
Quoted from misfitdart:Another what??? Are you tired from jumping to conclusions?? I havent had the time to read every single post.... I’m glad that he’s here sharing some of his medical wisdom and no I’m not being sarcastic.
His background is literally the third key post.
If you just put in a search within the thread you will find about half dozen or so conspiracy theorists deride his expertise using wording very similar to yours.
These are the two things I am primarily referring to.
Not asking you to read the whole dang thing (it’s a lot), but the answer to your question is readily available.
Quoted from oldskool1969:Look folks all I am trying to say is that a “healthy” person rarely dies from the beer virus.
There seems to be either a diagnosed or undiagnosed health issue that makes them more susceptible to death.
Thus inflating the only cause death recorded numbers to be higher than they probably should.
This is scare mongering IMO.
Politicians and media appear to use this data as a tool to create rules and policies to infringe on our freedom.
It’s not scare mongering. It’s not fake. It’s not a conspiracy. I’ve diagnosed lots of cases myself. I’ve seen my patients have to be admitted to the hospital and ICU. I’ve personally had several patients die from COVID. I’ve had to sit at my desk and write condolence cards to their families. I’ve got multiple patients still on oxygen and with severe lung scarring months and months after they “recovered”. This is why it pisses me off to see people dismiss this pandemic like it’s all fake. I can show you the headstones and people dying in ICU beds to prove it’s not. Come on down to Dallas and I’ll take you on a tour.
Yes, if you are healthy and contract COVID your chances of dying are low. Again, that’s no different than any other infectious disease. That does not mean COVID isn’t real and doesn’t kill over 1000 people every single day in this country.
The problem with your attitude is that it makes it easier for people to ignore safeguards like masking or avoiding large gatherings because surely the “beer virus” can’t be this bad right? Well, the “beer virus” is what it is. All I do is look at the data and statistical facts and draw my conclusions from there. The data show me that the “beer virus” is the worst infectious disease pandemic in over a century. People who dismiss and ignore it because they think it’s fake are causing continued disease spread and death of other Americans. That’s pretty pathetic when really all we have to do as a nation is wear a paper mask, wash our hands and avoid gathering in groups. If people would just do those things we could get the “beer virus” under control.
It’s trendy to talk about supporting our “front line heroes”. I’ve seen lots of signs in yards, features on our national news and companies bringing food to hospitals. That’s all wonderful. I’d honestly rather people make our lives just a little easier and put on an f-ing mask.
Deniers on this thread used to be amusing. Now they just seem distressed and piteous. Grasping desperately to anything but the truth. I want to think that most know better (this is my own dissonance smoothing mechanism, lol). But I watched the new Borat movie last night and now I am pretty sure most cannot help themselves. They seem literally defenseless against the social media misinformation inputs they receive.
Quoted from oldskool1969:Thats great, but he too could be wrong? There are way too many differing answers from different fields to say this is the only fact. The numbers of death reported are lunacy IMO. You can always pick an extreme measure to prove a point, but generally that's what people who aren't open to discussion do.
It all depends on where you get the information and how you ingest it.
Happy to be alive
I'll bite.
What is your field of expertise?
Our Freedoms in the US are protected by the people.
We will be asked to send our children off to war, to ration food, gas, and supplies.
To donate, to volunteer, or to simply wave a flag.
We sacrifice Lives against others to preserve our perception of "Freedom"
Wearing a mask, shouldnt be a debate about Freedom, In my Opinion.
Everyone should want to wear a Mask, to save lives, the economy, and our country.
Whats the Opposite reasoning? Its an infringement on my Freedom to say, "No"
Sacrifice other lives, and especially the medical community, because your Freedom is so inherently
threatened by a Mask?
This is the reasoning of Political Fodder for an Agenda.
Does anyone really believe this would be an issue, if in January, Our govt said,
"Free Masks to all Americans today!" "Wear them everywhere, do so to save your Freedoms"
Sure some would disagree, but a much smaller amount.
Apparently Freedom, in this area means to me, in my opinion only,
that One cares more about how they feel or look wearing a Mask, then they do the lives of fellow Americans,
Doctors, health care workers, our entire system, and The Economy.
The Freedom you want, is for yourself, and the hell with everyone else.
Same shit ive said since January. Health care workers Lives Matter.
I posted this quote from one of my favorite authors several months ago in this thread and it seems it might need a second dose to stick:
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
― Issac Asimov
Quoted from Oaken:His background is literally the third key post.
If you just put in a search within the thread you will find about half dozen or so conspiracy theorists deride his expertise using wording very similar to yours.
These are the two things I am primarily referring to.
Not asking you to read the whole dang thing (it’s a lot), but the answer to your question is readily available.
yep, the answer to my question is readily available......I ASKED HIM....pretty simple.
Quoted from misfitdart:yep, the answer to my question is readily available......I ASKED HIM....pretty simple.
And I asked you.
Are you having a hard time taking Covid seriously? Covid seriously might make it difficult for you to have a hard time.
Quoted from manadams:Heartbreaking video. Politicians and elites still collect paychecks and don't apply their idiotic rules to themselves while they destroy people like this.
Government shouldn't have the power to shut down/ limit private business.
Quoted from cottonm4:And I asked you.
You didn’t ask me anything, you could now I suppose...
Quoted from PokerJake:Government shouldn't have the power to shut down/ limit private business.
What about safety issues like health inspections, etc?
I think I read it somewhere in this thread, I dunno where I got this, but it’s stayed with me.
Freedom without responsibility is just adolescence, and it’s time to grow up.
Quoted from cottonm4:I'll bite.
What is your field of expertise?
Quoted from misfitdart:You didn’t ask me anything, you could now I suppose...
What was that you say?
Quoted from cottonm4:And I asked you.
I think you should not drink post
Giuliani tested positive.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/06/politics/rudy-giuliani-coronavirus-positive/index.html
The UK will start administering the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine this week. 50 hospitals will distribute 40 million doses (20m people x2 jabs each). Nursing home residents, health care workers, and people over 80 will be first in line. With a population of 67 million, this will be a super start for them. Will be interesting to see how long it takes for them to distribute that initial load.
Quoted from hAbO:Giuliani tested positive.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/06/politics/rudy-giuliani-coronavirus-positive/index.html
They think he picked it up at the new Buc-ee’s south of Macon. That place is a 24 hour a day super spreader event.
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-12-cell-camera-sars-cov-.html
pasted_image (resized).pngHere in California, LA county posted over 10,000 new cases in just one day today. Way too many people are treating "mask wearing" as a fashion statement and a "sorta kinda on my face" thing. Too many porous cloth masks. Get N95s people! We should have been mass-producing them by the millions the past 6 months, but no, we're not. Shameful if not conspiratorial. There's a huge difference in effectiveness. Those surgical masks and cloth artwork-covered ones might as well not be on your faces the way you treat them. Too many exposed noses. Too many "wait until you're at the store door to put it on" masks. Too many "but (s)he's my neighbor / friend / relative, I'm sure we're both safe" attitudes. People wonder why the case counts keep going up despite masks being "the norm." It's because we're wearing the wrong ones, wearing them improperly and not keeping them on our faces enough of the time!
It's only going to get worse the next few weeks.
I feel for all those small businesses, but if people want to keep them from going under, we've got to get SERIOUS about masks and distancing. "Oh but N-95s cost more, aren't pretty and are more unpleasant to wear." Toughen up, folks! You want your favorite restaurant to reopen? Quit taking the easy way; mask and distance like you Mean It!
Quoted from hAbO:Giuliani tested positive.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/06/politics/rudy-giuliani-coronavirus-positive/index.html
Assuming that all involved are telling the truth, what frustrates me is his easy access to a hospital bed.
If he truly is feeling great, the stay at the hospital would be an over cautious convenience in the best of times. Right now...it is problematic.
That or they are lying.
A quick example for why these stories that take the tone of “so and so private citizen was admitted to the hospital as a precautionary measure and are doing fine” are rubbing me the wrong way right now:
Around here since mid November guidelines were adjusted so that if you have covid and falling oxygen levels, most likely you will not be admitted until you have a blood oxygen level approaching low 80s. Instead, they will give you a prescription for an oxygen tank and send you home. Self administer, monitor, and report back. Only if you deteriorate further will you be admitted.
Now I know that nationally the stress on the hospital systems is incredibly uneven, but from my vantage point it isn’t pretty.
Quoted from mcluvin:They think he picked it up at the new Buc-ee’s south of Macon. That place is a 24 hour a day super spreader event.
He crisscrossed the US multiple times the past month and was at every hearing mask-less for hours so who knows where he contracted it. No one was shocked he got it but that he lasted this long without contracting it especially with his close contact to the Whitehouse. At last count there were 60ish staffers and 150ish secret service? He probably has nothing to worry about because he'll get some of the best care and treatment available. Anyone in close contact with him...not so much.
Quoted from Oaken:A quick example for why these stories that take the tone of “so and so private citizen was admitted to the hospital as a precautionary measure and are doing fine” are rubbing me the wrong way right now:
Around here since mid November guidelines were adjusted so that if you have covid and falling oxygen levels, most likely you will not be admitted until you have a blood oxygen level approaching low 80s. Instead, they will give you a prescription for an oxygen tank and send you home. Self administer, monitor, and report back. Only if you deteriorate further will you be admitted.
Now I know that nationally the stress on the hospital systems is incredibly uneven, but from my vantage point it isn’t pretty.
Saw a doc on a video yesterday taking about he is now having to make the decisions on who gets treated and who does not. Triage medicine is the next thing we will be hearing more about. People are going to be dying in the hallways. Again.
Quoted from Oaken:the tone of “so and so private citizen was admitted to the hospital as a precautionary measure and are doing fine” are rubbing me the wrong way right now:
Quoted from hAbO:He has nothing to worry about because he'll get some of the best care and treatment available.
This is what chaps the most. "Hey, I'm doing fine. And you should be, too. There is nothing wrong with the water. Keep jumping on in. "
And I bet Rudy does not have a co-pay to deal with, either.
Quoted from Daditude:I saw this and had to share:[quoted image]
Remember, Santa has "magic dust". I'm betting it protects him from all diseases; he'd have needed it a lot over the past century or two.
Quoted from hAbO:He crisscrossed the US multiple times the past month and was at every hearing mask-less for hours so who knows where he contracted it. No one was shocked he got it but that he lasted this long without contracting it especially with his close contact to the Whitehouse. At last count there were 60ish staffers and 150ish secret service? He has nothing to worry about because he'll get some of the best care and treatment available.
I couldn't care less how he contacted it. I'm more concerned about who may have contacted it from him. But assholes like this don't care about such things.
I was walking around target shopping for a couple things and I just looked around and took it all in. The strangest Christmas I have ever experienced.
Glad to be alive, all the way around.
I have a desire to start a mask company in America. A new one. As things progress, this idea looks better and better.
Can you imagine if I could produce masks and some of them, but not all of them could be absolutely free.
I hope to make this happen someday. It's a dream that was created in the Covid crisis for me.
Digression over...
Canadian Tire Has A Kentucky Fried Chicken Smelling Fire Log For Sale. What about a pot pourrie smell packets inside a mask?
Quoted from PokerJake:Government shouldn't have the power to shut down/ limit private business.
Government shuts down and limits private businesses all the time. Look at the women's clinic restrictions that most red states have passed that shut down so many clinics in an attempt to limit women's access to abortion. That I find totally unreasonable, I do feel like for health and safety violations like unclean kitchens and improper food storage in restaurants, safety violations in factories, fire marshal regulations for event spaces, etc. it's fair if it's for the greater safety of customers and employees.
Quoted from bobmathuse:Those surgical masks and cloth artwork-covered ones might as well not be on your faces the way you treat them.
The scientific studies done on the effectiveness of various types of masks disagrees with you.
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