I think a portion of people are exhausted by the precautions, they peaked to soon. I honestly think that there should have been no lockdown in the spring and summer for the sole purpose of enforcing a strict lockdown this fall and winter that people will take seriously. People needed to see the huge numbers before they’re going to give a shit.

Personally I’ve cancelled all plans for 2020, and 2021 is looking to be a write off also. Just stay safe.

I love debate, but I need the other side to be discussing in good faith. I cannot expect that with certain people, and don’t wish to spend another minute of my life arguing with them. It’s absolutely my right to walk away from toxic, cruel, ignorant people. You don’t get to tell me who I get to engage with. My forum experience is much more pleasant NOT fighting with people. Everyone else’s is, too. Me blocking people = less bullshit for you & the moderators. I’ve “silenced” no one. I’ve chosen to ignore someone. Huge difference.

I really feel sorry for you guys .
So many of you do take it seriously and are trying to do the right thing , yet at the same time so many people just don't care .
You'll never get a handel on it if so many people don't think it's real and don't give a stuff .
Even if there is a vaccine , I've read a lot of people won't get it .
I would like to see the US beat this for 2 reasons .
1- because I don't want to see you guys going through this .
2- selfishly , my wife and I would like to come over for a holiday .
People have said if you have a lock down , the economy will collapse .
That hasn't been the case in my state .
Due to our mistakes , we had a second wave and numbers were growing at a rapid rate .
After over 100 days of lockdown with " limited government support " almost every business has survived , I'm sure there are some that haven't , but I haven't seen any in my area .
If China can do it and we can do it , you guys can do it .
I wish everyone all the best

This situation will continue to get worse before it gets better.

I hope we can all make it to February.

I cannot believe these numbers this week. All the work SOME of us did earlier this year to slow this thing down seems to be completely in vain.

It's so frustrating.

My team at work is leveraging every technology and dataset we can to equip the senior care industry with the proper defenses against covid-19. Machine learning and AI that would blow your mind. Even with all of that technology, it's like fighting the tide with all these people who have been conned into thinking science is a conspiracy and coronavirus isn't dangerous.

Americans (myself included) do not like to be told what to do. That's evident. It's pretty much why our country was founded in the first place. One of our states literally has the slogan, "Live free or die." Seriously.

The ONLY path to ending this in the USA is herd immunity. That's it. I'm not holding my breath for an effective vaccine.

Get it, and get past it or die. That's it. Reality sucks sometimes.

Absolutely. I have a few tales from a hot, hotspot here in the Midwest.

My wife is a RN at a hospital here in town. A week before Halloween a number of her co-workers and their families went to a party at someone's house. Pics were taken and posted online. No masks. Four of her co-workers were out directly because of the party.

My wife has a friend, roughly 65 or so. She had Covid symptoms for a few days, but still decided to attend church, then a ladies tea luncheon after at the same church. She calls my wife the next day and tells her about the symptoms and where to get tested. Then tells my wife "In hindsight I guess I should've stayed home". Now the church is shut down for two weeks minimum.

Lastly, a few days before Halloween, my neighbor is directly exposed to the virus by a co-worker. Goes home, tells his wife and they go on as normal. Halloween rolls around and we take our daughter out to our closest neighbors. The guy's wife stops us and says that he isn't feeling well and to not get close so we don't catch anything. No mention of Covid. We also see that their granddaughter and two young great granddaughters are in the house with them. Just today my wife heard that both of the neighbors tested positive. No idea on the others that were in the house, but they're young kids who go to school and daycare and the mom works at a grocery store. I'm just appalled by the fucking stupidity.

Keep safe everyone and don't let your guard down. You never know about the other guy.

.

I agree and also have a saying "Nature Weeds Out The Stupid". I thought I heard on restaurants in Indianapolis about 40% would not be coming back. Boss Hogsett will sink the whole system if he locks down the city again and just try and rebuild people coming back downtown without someplace to eat.

That’s not true at all. You have drawn a completely backwards conclusion From what has happened.

Tens of millions of Americans (including you) have been doing EXACTLY what they were explicitly told to do: ignore the virus, pretend it doesn’t exist, don’t wear masks, don’t have any empathy or concern for your fellow American and ignore science in favor of happy talk and misinformation.

Tens of millions “were told what to do” and obeyed without reservation or resistance, which disproves your flippant theory. They embraced the orders they received with enthusiasm and without question.

Clearly, we need to change our approach. Will Americans continue to do what they are told to do when there’s a different message? We shall see. I hope so, as I want my parents to survive this pandemic.

Last night me and the wife got texts and phone calls from Massachusetts department of health. Warned on family gatherings and such. This will be a tough winter.

Everyone gets told to do something in their lives and it starts from childhood until we die. Being told to wear a mask or not get together with others not in your immediate family is not impending on ones freedom... its teamwork. We're the only country that cant get it together and unite on this subject like others have.

The US (and world) will never adopt the idea of herd immunity because its inappropriate, irresponsible and ill-informed.

I can hardly wait until January when this shit starts to magically go away.

4lblqo (resized).jpg

You're right, silencing is probably the wrong term. i have enjoyed many of your passionate posts even when i have completely disagreed with them, Ghostbusters. Your argument is valid, i just don't agree with it. In this thread we watched Who-Dey, go form it is nothing, to it is something, to issuing apologies and landing on live your life and follow mandates. The enjoyment of pinside is watching people evolve.

I have to back to work, i will check in later this evening. Rarehero, happy Friday and enjoy the weekend.

Tom

Oh boy, another mutation. Mink coats are now out of style.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/who-downplays-coronavirus-mink-mutation-risk-after-denmark-orders-huge-n1246726

This has been said over and over in this thread but I'm going to repeat it again since you seem to not grasp things. For starters herd immunity is mathematically impossible when you factor in immunity is potentially short term. But we'll ignore that for now. Currently the case fatality rate is around 2.4% but I'll be generous and go with 2%. If every american got the virus with a CFR of 2% that would mean 6,564,000 deaths. I don't know about you but I don't consider the 200,000+ deaths we have to be acceptable so to say we should go for herd immunity and be fine with 6.5 million deaths is just abhorrent.

So that was with a CFR of 2%. If we really took the brakes off and let it run rampant that CFR would skyrocket as health care becomes overwhelmed and people can't get the care they need. Even with measures I expect the CFR will go up during the winter as people will likely start getting heavier viral loads again.

It's really not hard to wear a mask and socially distance. If you want to hang out with people do it outside but still stay distanced. We already saw what happens when you don't distance even while being outside (rose garden event). I don't think it's unamerican to ask people to consider their fellow americans and wear a mask. Lots of professions have to wear a mask all day long.

If you're really against masks though and don't think people should consider others around them then when you have surgery in the future make sure you demand that the staff in the OR doesn't wear a mask or wash their hands.

Are these like “amber alerts” where everybody gets one? Or is it due to work?

You can’t achieve herd immunity when the immunity from getting the virus does not last more than just months for most people it seems.

Pucker up.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/06/business/grocery-stores-toilet-paper-cleaning-wipes/index.html

Some grocery stores are limiting toilet paper and disinfecting wipe purchases again
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

We have rounded the corner. Going up.

Screen Shot 2020-11-06 at 11.38.15 AM (resized).png

The death rate looks like it is about to start trending up, too.

Screen Shot 2020-11-06 at 11.38.30 AM (resized).png

Like an amber alert.

You and me both brother!

Do you wear a seatbelt? Do you follow the speed limit? Do you pay your bills? Do you steal things or harm people? Do you wear clothes outside? Do you only shit on toilets?

Free societies still have RULES and LAWS. Doing the right thing and being safe isn't an infringement on your freedoms. It's part of realizing you're not the only person on the planet.

You've probably followed generally everything you've been told to do your whole life. Why was wearing a mask during a pandemic the thing that broke you? It's the EASIEST thing in the world to do...it's more convoluted and harder work to fight against it. "Living Free" is COMPATIBLE with "not being a fucking moron" during a pandemic.

Colorado seems to by trying "lockdown lite" -- with positive rates > 10%, we're just got a request from the governor not to socialize with anyone beyond the family you live with, but no new closure orders (Denver public schools are already down to K-2 in person, with the rest virtual) or travel restrictions. I hope we can get this under control before winter really kicks in.

[EDIT] Whoops, spoke too soon, non-essentially businesses and people in Denver just got a 10pm curfew. I assume this means they're attributing the spike in positive tests to drunks at bars (and in living rooms).

I'm honoured you can't see me.

Funny you say that. I was at Sams club last night and they had tons of pallets of TP and they were stacked high.

It was the industrial POM5000 you’d find at a wayside rest. Now THAT will make your bum pucker up.

Gone from ignoring Fauci, to fire Fauci...and now we are at behead Fauci.

37E0FAA7-E82E-4552-8D16-38CE23B0D9E9 (resized).jpeg

I wear my mask properly and follow whatever rules each establishment puts down. I went to the dermatologist last Monday after putting it off for months to get my annual melanoma checkup. All the Drs. and receptionists in the waiting area were wearing quality masks properly. However, even stopping people as the went in to get their temp checked, didn't stop them from letting dicknose patients in. WTF?!

As far as wearing a mask to protect others, seems a pointless venture when most beyond medical personnel don't wear them properly, or even a few at any given location and nobody seems to care. As far as protecting myself, I'm not really worried about getting sick from this virus at all. And I'm certainly not going to play the roll of some dicknose police.

The mask controversy will surely rage on, but from what I see out in public, even if you mandate them, it will never work as long as there is no mandate on how to wear them or clean them. Even if there was, there would be nobody to enforce it. I'm sure some of these filthy masks that never get cleaned are doing more harm than good anyway.

Bring on the downvotes, you know who you are, and tell me why I'm wrong and then convince me there can or will be a plan in place that will work to correct all that. Or is this nationwide act of halfass wearing masks really making that much of a difference?

Well I was wrong on all counts. Was a serious work thing unrelated to covid.

Who knew those still existed?

I don't think you understand what herd immunity is. Herd immunity generally comes through a vaccine. The problem with Covid is people only are immune from getting it again for 3-6 months, so there is no way to achieve herd immunity by 60%+ of the population getting it. So you can get it, live through it, then get it again in 9 months and die from it.

Personally I think your approach is lazy and about giving up instead of fighting. Luckily the majority of Americans don't give up so easily. I don't get the whole "don't tell me what to do" argument, this is my country and community, I fall more in the "tell me what I can do to help!" category.

So much to disagree with here, but so little interest.

However, I applaud you for just laying it out there. Several here believe as you do, but waste so much time with inane and unsupportable arguments. I salute you sir for getting right to your point.

If you really like masks, talk them up, not down. Lead by example. If you have some extra dough, buy some good triple layer surgical masks and share them when you can. Tell your friends how to wear them and why they work. Explain that your mask is mostly for them and their mask is for you.

There is no mask controversy raging on, only mask misinformation.

Hi folks,

Everything dealing with Covid seems to be hot to manage.

The topic I have open for a new game, had been closed by moderators:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/no-covid-for-pinball-heroes-the-game-

My only goal was to imagine pinball freaks with a mask, as everybody around the world need to wear it.

I put some pics here, U can play if U want to create yours.
Please nothing politic, no controversy about that

mask zfond2 (resized).jpg

"Talk to the hand" ? .... you can easily block my posts if you are that way inclined?

It's what happened. Lessons should be learned, rest of Australia hopes so anyway. Take responsibility.

The post didn't require any response either. It's just what went down, maybe just so everyone can have some more complete context here. You obviously already know some of what went down in Vic, but clearly oblivious that every other state it's pretty much business as usual (since many months ago now for some places), Australia has only been held back by the bad management of good old Vic.

Your response certainly says alot though. I guess we shouldn't be surprised given what has happened, really.

In the interests of balance, stupid things go on a bit here too. Yep. I do stupid things sometimes, well, alot lol. So do our "authorities". Stupid. Not nearly half as much it would seem here, though. Maybe it's just luck.

The landslide downvotes to your post gives some indication to the proportions of people in the thread negatively triggered by some basic realities of life.

Or, might be triggered by misuse of words "herd immunity" there?. I guess maybe what you meant was something more akin to; a degree of public "resistance" to the Disease?. I digress.

Anyway, serious question ... Whom do people trust? really? ...

Why?

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2259178-is-a-dangerous-new-coronavirus-strain-circulating-in-farmed-mink/

Some interesting information to digest in here.

Minks being culled on mass for CV19.

Raises new questions.

Bring forth CV20 I suppose.

8 days in a row of 0 cases 0 deaths .

Ok, so as a sort of thought exercise, say Biden takes over the nation in late January. What are the top things he should prioritize in regards to the pandemic? In my mind, I’m thinking establishing a national buying collective of PPE and also facilitating improvements to broadband access. There’s also something about a more cohesive testing and reporting structure.

Mate , I'm not gonna block you , you can say whatever you want . I don't even downvote you , that's your thing .
But when you constantly repeat the same argument or go low , it's just easier to put up a song or a meme than a long winded rebuttal .
I do see your posts that get blocked .
Yes , we can agree our hotel quarantine was a total disaster and caused our second-wave , 99% of the new cases were linked to 2 hotels .
You keep saying masks and lockdowns aren't necessary but even with stage 4 Lockdown with mandatory mask wearing , it took us over 3 months to get to where we are now .
The proof is in the pudding .
Even in a stage 4 lockdown for over 3 months , Victoria's economy is doing better than every state except for one .
https://www.miragenews.com/tas-remains-on-top-act-lifts-and-vic-slips-commsec-state-of-states/
Let's just agree were happy to see Australia getting back on track .

The White House has more cases than the continent of Australia

1. Focus on masks - mass manufacturing of good ones, distributing them freely, educating people on correct use and efficacy through multi media campaign.

2. Cheap, fast, and accurate home testing kits - throwing as much money as is necessary to make this happen. This promotes a return to normalcy in the home, workplace, and schools.

3. Testing, tracing, and isolation programs that provide financial support for those that need to isolate - both individuals, small businesses, and schools.

4. Experts leading the pandemic response, with a return to public reporting 100% of the data.

5. Extra support of various kinds for frontline healthcare workers. It's difficult to understand the physical, emotional, and financial strains we are putting on them right now. They cannot hold out at this pace.

6. Continue evaluating vaccine and treatment dev and supporting those that are showing promise.

7. CDC and FDA back in charge in their lanes and clean house of any political operatives that have been inserted.

I have more, but this is a great start...

Add #8.
Proper disposal. I am seeing these things lying at the curb and in the gutters. Of course, we are talking about a lot of people who are too lazy and too in love with themselves to even properly return a grocery cart to the cart corrals in the parking lots.

You need to check your "facts".

Also, "Talk to the hand" and blocking someones posts... same thing.

So if you're not going to do that, then don't. Would be commendable if you can refrain.

"Information wars" nowdays by the looks. People shouldn't blindly take for gospel where things can't be properly verified, nor should we write off willy nilly, all the same.

While there's records boasting going on, 0 new cases of community transmission in South Australia since the 12th of May. 170 days straight or so with 0 new daily unknown cases!.

https://covidlive.com.au/report/daily-community-transmission/sa

The last death in this state was 12th of April. Zero deaths for 200 days!!

https://covidlive.com.au/report/daily-deaths/sa

Yet still nearly every day new cases are coming in to the state... our citizens coming from other places away need to be able to come home from overseas. Many of them test positive. We have just been doing much the same as every other state has been doing since March/April, except Vic of course.

It's already shown that your stage 3 was more than adequate for same essential result as you got with the martial law situation, anybody can check the graph data again. . Masks? ... yeah, in lieu of the extreme lockdown would have been a fair call with the way people were ignoring the satge 3 at the start.

+1 to these. Immediately have the USPS distribute face masks and saliva rapid testing kits to every household. The saliva kits should be scannable and reportable by cell phone/QR code.