Quoted from dirkdiggler:This thread used to be who-day and his gun buddy spewing all kinds of crap and everyone responding to it. Now it's O-din?
So, if somebody's opinion is different than yours it's crap? OK, I get it now.
(Topic ID: 264520)
This topic is closed.
Quoted from EJS:You just need to find the right subforum. I find the EM crew usually have no time for BS. They (we) just want to talk pinball and restore our older gems.
Theres a lot of great people on this site and I've made some very good friends on here but there is also some extremely negative people and you might even say downright nasty people on here and several of them camp out in this thread here. I love Pinside dont get me wrong, I just dont love this thread. It's just been a nice break from the drama is all I meant by what I said.
There is some amazing people on this site from every part of the globe and I will never leave here because of the good friends that I have on here. I can appreciate almost anyone opinion even if i disagree with them as long as they arent just being a troll. There are some people in this thread that would benefit from that way of thinking, especially the crowd that is supposedly known for how tolerant that they are. 
Rockwall, TX
Quoted from Who-Dey:Theres a lot of great people on this site and I've made some very good friends on here but there is also some extremely negative people and you might even say downright nasty people on here and several of them camp out in this thread here. I love Pinside dont get me wrong, I just dont love this thread. It's just been a nice break from the drama is all I meant by what I said.
There is some amazing people on this site from every part of the globe and I will never leave here because of the good friends that I have on here. I can appreciate almost anyone opinion even if i disagree with them as long as they arent just being a troll. There are some people in this thread that would benefit from that way of thinking, especially the crowd that is supposedly known for how tolerant that they are.
Re: tolerance
I would like to think I am tolerant within reason of differences of opinion. I am absolutely not tolerant of bigotry or conspiracy.
An example:
debating the merits of various waxes or even whether to wax a playfield is well and good in my book. But if someone starts going on about how the use of wax is just a false flag by the underpants Gnomes so that they can steal said underpants while we are distracted...well then I am gonna be pretty darn unkind in my response.
Quoted from Oaken:Re: tolerance
I would like to think I am tolerant within reason of differences of opinion. I am absolutely not tolerant of bigotry or conspiracy.
An example:
debating the merits of various waxes or even whether to wax a playfield is well and good in my book. But if someone starts going on about how the use of wax is just a false flag by the underpants Gnomes so that they can steal said underpants while we are distracted...well then I am gonna be pretty darn unkind in my response.
Some say you can tell a lot about a person by the wax they use. What wax 'do' you use?
Quoted from Daditude:Some say you can tell a lot about a person by the wax they use. What wax 'do' you use?
E7BC59E2-84AF-4A09-BBAA-B5214C638AF1 (resized).jpegQuoted from Oaken:[quoted image]
I like your style.
Quoted from Oaken:I am absolutely not tolerant of bigotry or conspiracy.
Well good thing i am neither of those i guess huh? 
Quoted from o-din:So, if somebody's opinion is different than your it's crap? OK, I get it now.
Exactly o-din!
Quoted from Bublehead:I would swear there is some kind of Orwellian fear that makes people want to block or prevent contract tracing because it might “identify and name” people and, being as litigious a society as we have become, fear they might be held liable if they are determined to be a “spreader”, including determining that a single person’s actions actually lead to someone’s death.
Maybe if we passed a law making contact tracing information ineligible for use as evidence in a civil or criminal trial, maybe people would not fear it and it could again be used as a tool to stop the spread. Just thinking out loud here...
I found myself thinking, What would Snowden say? (Having built tracing hardware at a high level.)
Melbourne
Quoted from Trogdor:I guess New Zealand will be getting their treatments from China and the USSR. He threw the entire US educational system in the counterclockwise flushing toilet- F that guy.. USA! USA!
So your saying we should write off a country becasue of ones person response to something? Hope the rest of the world doesn't feel that way about the USA!
Quoted from pinmeds:Yes I Understand that indoor minimally ventilated spaces are a huge problem, I've kept my Arcade closed since two days before it was mandated in March, and have not re-opened even though we had a few months where I could have, I just did not feel it was responsible, and now we're closed again anyway in any event...
But aside from how UV and temperature help or hurt the virus itself, what I was wondering specifically, once indoors, is if the lower RH is going to cause the viral load to be even higher since the indoor dry heated air will be able to hold more moisture from respired aerosols, as opposed to in a humid closed environment with a high RH, or would the humid environment be more likely to keep the viral load higher? Sorry if this doesn't make sense, your insight is greatly appreciated always.
Yes, RH matter. Unfortunately. Read article with possible explanation that added humidity means more particles for small viral particle droplets to hit, become bigger molecules and fall out of air.
Higher humidity in summer, no humidity in cold winters. That is possibly why WI is going crazy. People see the writing on the wall. Any business here with no circulation, heat on, and very low interior RH will be a viral wonderland.
All theory of course, seems like nothing matters except keeping a mask on and not eating or drinking in shared spaces.
Quoted from Who-Dey:I do not post in this thread much because anyone who shares a different opinion is ganged up on and downvoted all to hell constantly by the same 10 people over and over.and over. There is a very nasty group of people that are filled with hate in this thread and it's just not any fun to come here anymore.
I have been taking a break from Pinside lately and my life has actually been better because of it.
Yep you see people briefly come into.... and then briskly leave the echo chamber. Like a merry-go-around, the constant being a few of the same people asking questions that seem to bewilder them, but that they really don't want to know/accept any of the more logical answers to.
Then get rude and abusive at people, for not falling into line with their irrational (to many) beliefs or followings.
To quote "Your boo's mean nothing to me, I've seen what makes you people cheer!"
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:Our National Debt is a huge Problem. It is estimated, and only an estimate, that US debt has doubled in 4 years.
Its like celebrating the great new TV on the credit card, until the Bill comes in the mail.
In this light, small things, for me, to share.
Notice received yesterday, that my Homeowners insurance is cancelled. Company pulling out because of Hurricanes, and Rash of Roof and other Fraud.
Received my Health Insurance Renewal....OMG! Wait till you see the rates for next year!
I still cant believe we have a Mask vs herd debate. Or that in all this time, so little care and respect for healthcare workers,
and whatever decisions come from the top, show so little concern for them.
Its like, Herd Immunity is great. Either we ignore the sick, or accept the possibility of health care collapse.
Its going to get crazier, I believe.....I see shortages of Adult Flu Vaccine around me....2 out of 8 locations had them, and were running out....
Or How long to Vaccinate 150 Million? Well for some, the 150 Million registered voters are expected to show up in person and all vote in one day. I guess they believe this is possible, so maybe we can share it will take one day or a little more, to vaccinate the whole country, if we can all vote in one day.
We simply still dont know....What percentage of people recovered will be reinfected?
Will this change in a year? What about animals? We lost 10,000 Mink in farms recently.....Any other possible issues, with mutation? Livestock?
We dont know. Im aware of Pediatric studies that are checking Pregnancy issues, with Covid, Miscarriages, as well as any developmental issues we dont know yet.
I see a flat line in China, and a soaring line here.....Perhaps, we have been led down a path that is right, or very wrong.
But "inbetween" seems to be the biggest problem forward.
For my Pinball and Personal friends in AU. Ive been around the Block with dialogue and News on Wildfires/Climate Change,
The Virus, and Minorities (US issues vs Aboriginals). So much of the differences, are media controlled.
Controversies, create viewership, which equals $$$.
I need the days of Walter Cronkite.
Correction- national debt doubled in eight years before Trump. Debt has increased but no where near doubled.
Budget deficit has steadily (scarily) increased- we are printing money like it grew on trees- in the last few years. Turn those greenbacks into pins.
Is it time for the only thing to fear is fear itself?
It can be a long discussion as to what the National debt was at the end of 2016. From 12.5 Trillion to 18 Trillion.
By the end of 2020. We will be at 22 trillion to 25 Trillion.
This does not include Care Act Loans, to my knowledge, as no numbers have been released, or how much will get paid back.
Estimates are 3 to 6 Trillion given out, as Forbes reports increased wealth during the Pandemic, of 3 Trillion.
Regardless, we have an official 6 Trillion listed in 4 years. and we both agree about printing more money. We should be very concerned about inflation, or even hyperinflation happening, with a debated unemployment number, along a GDP drop of over 30%, all resulting in a very uneven
recovery, and a huge bill to be paid.
Quoted from razorsedge:Your heartless accusations are purely subjective. You shouldn't be so judgmental about people you wouldn't know from a bar of soap. You've dropped to a new low mate.
Kitchener, ON
Quoted from Trogdor:we are printing money like it grew on trees
I read once not long ago that there is only about 5 trillion dollars cash in the world. The rest is just made up numbers in a computer.
Edit. Changed it from 3T to 5T, just did a quick Search
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:We should be very concerned about inflation, or even hyperinflation happening,
And to think this government spending money like a drunken sailor got started in 2008 when the housing market collapsed due to Wall Street's selling all of those junk housing loans. What a hangover that has been.
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:It can be a long discussion as to what the National debt was at the end of 2016. From 12.5 Trillion to 18 Trillion.
By the end of 2020. We will be at 22 trillion to 25 Trillion.
This does not include Care Act Loans, to my knowledge, as no numbers have been released, or how much will get paid back.
Estimates are 3 to 6 Trillion given out, as Forbes reports increased wealth during the Pandemic, of 3 Trillion.
Regardless, we have an official 6 Trillion listed in 4 years. and we both agree about printing more money. We should be very concerned about inflation, or even hyperinflation happening, with a debated unemployment number, along a GDP drop of over 30%, all resulting in a very uneven
recovery, and a huge bill to be paid.
We supposedly didn't get told about Coronavirus in advance to prevent panic, I can't wait to hear the truth we are shielded from about the economy.
Quoted from razorsedge:People get infected despite extreme PPE.
These people have jobs that expose them to the virus 12 hours a day. Plus, this confirms how infectious coronavirus is.
Currently in the U.S. the reproduction number for the virus (R0) is ~ 1.3. Mitigation measures only need to reduce this slightly; below 1.0 the virus eventually dissipates.
Again, PPE is not 100%. Unless you are in a biohazard suit nothing is 100%. That DOES NOT mean PPE doesn’t work or isn’t needed.
Airbags, seatbelts and cars engineered to protect the passengers also aren’t 100% effective in preventing injuries in car accidents. Doesn’t mean they don’t work.
I'm sure it's just fake news by a three-time Pulitzer Prize finalist, but the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has a very comprehensive story on the scientific and governmental response to this pandemic. We saw most of this happen, but the timeline and explanations of what was supposed to occur was enlightening.
The headline sells it better than the link:
The U.S. was the world's best prepared nation to confront a pandemic. How did it spiral to 'almost inconceivable' failure?
Interviews with public health experts and reviews of studies by government agencies, watchdog groups and scientists reveal a cascade of blunders.
Quoted from pinwiztom:been posted elsewhere on pinside
but thought it could lighten things up here a bit
Lol that was fantastic, she’s right about the slutty cat costumes we need that shit! More then ever this year!!
Anyone have Covid caused diabetes on their bingo cards?
https://uk.reuters.com/article/instant-article/idUKKBN2741ET
Quoted from Lame33:I'm sure it's just fake news by a three-time Pulitzer Prize finalist, but the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has a very comprehensive story on the scientific and governmental response to this pandemic. We saw most of this happen, but the timeline and explanations of what was supposed to occur was enlightening.
https://www.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/2020/10/14/america-had-worlds-best-pandemic-response-plan-playbook-why-did-fail-coronavirus-covid-19-timeline/3587922001/
The headline sells it better than the link:
The U.S. was the world's best prepared nation to confront a pandemic. How did it spiral to 'almost inconceivable' failure?
Interviews with public health experts and reviews of studies by government agencies, watchdog groups and scientists reveal a cascade of blunders.
There is an excellent documentary that just came out called "Totally Under Control" which explores this in depth.
Quoted from gweempose:There is an excellent documentary that just came out called "Totally Under Control" which explores this in depth.
Do you have a link? Or are we on a scavenger hunt ?
Apparently all the infectious disease experts and Fauci are the idiots. Enough said. Sometimes I feel like We are living in a Twilight Zone episode! I knew I hit that clock too many times and I guess I got sucked into bizarro world. Gonna go play TZ and see if I can make it out....
This wouldn't surprise me at all. Colder weather, get together's, flu and allergy season, and people just not caring anymore are going to make this rough sledding.
I went to Walmart with my daughter today. We both wore masks. There were 3 guys in front of us with no masks. The check out guy had his mask below his nose. The other Walmart worker by the counter had his mask pulled down as well.
Quoted from Daditude:https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/longevity/521686-the-coming-weeks-will-be-darkest-of-the-entire-pandemic
This wouldn't surprise me at all. Colder weather, get together's, flu and allergy season, and people just not caring anymore are going to make this rough sledding.
I went to Walmart with my daughter today. We both wore masks. There were 3 guys in front of us with no masks. The check out guy had his mask below his nose. The other Walmart worker by the counter had his mask pulled down as well.
Some of this blame has to lay strictly lay on the mixed messages being given by the US President, something some of us have been saying since Day #1 (and getting censored/banned for)?
Quoted from Luckydogg420:I read once not long ago that there is only about 5 trillion dollars cash in the world. The rest is just made up numbers in a computer.
Edit. Changed it from 3T to 5T, just did a quick Search
Money's just a tool, and I don't mean for you or I.
A Grand means for Manipulating all kinds of stuff. Needs a bit of greed and fear though in order to be really effective. Plenty of that getting around of course, way more than there is coronavirus.
Greed, Fear, anyone have unreasonable expectations of some company fabricating a "vaccine" for ether of those two? Lol 
About the kind of response Australia has been used to getting from your neck of the woods mate.
Why not try to take a leaf out of New Zealands book!? ... Don't be so Uptight! .... Travel ban guide polar opposite for NZ than it was for Vic, according to chopper!
New Zealand, travel ban travel guide!! ... will it be accepted?? Lol
Quoted from Lame33:I'm sure it's just fake news by a three-time Pulitzer Prize finalist, but the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has a very comprehensive story on the scientific and governmental response to this pandemic. We saw most of this happen, but the timeline and explanations of what was supposed to occur was enlightening.
https://www.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/2020/10/14/america-had-worlds-best-pandemic-response-plan-playbook-why-did-fail-coronavirus-covid-19-timeline/3587922001/
The headline sells it better than the link:
The U.S. was the world's best prepared nation to confront a pandemic. How did it spiral to 'almost inconceivable' failure?
Interviews with public health experts and reviews of studies by government agencies, watchdog groups and scientists reveal a cascade of blunders.
That article is a great summary and timeline of the whole thing and how we got here. Should be a key post imo.
Quoted from nwpinball:Today's status report
I am kinda proud that Oregon probably has the best record fighting back the virus
compared to most states particularly the states with moderate population.
Consistently in the bottom 5 to10 in deaths and confirmed cases and rates per 100K of populations
Only states doing better, have no one living there to begin with (i.e. WYO or AK, states with lower pop. density etc )
Quoted from Lame33:I'm sure it's just fake news by a three-time Pulitzer Prize finalist, but the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has a very comprehensive story on the scientific and governmental response to this pandemic. We saw most of this happen, but the timeline and explanations of what was supposed to occur was enlightening.
https://www.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/2020/10/14/america-had-worlds-best-pandemic-response-plan-playbook-why-did-fail-coronavirus-covid-19-timeline/3587922001/
The headline sells it better than the link:
The U.S. was the world's best prepared nation to confront a pandemic. How did it spiral to 'almost inconceivable' failure?
Interviews with public health experts and reviews of studies by government agencies, watchdog groups and scientists reveal a cascade of blunders.
An interesting article, but if you can’t read the bias- you aren’t critically reading. Pulitzer Prize finalist doesn’t mean unbiased- simply means other biased editors and journalists agreed with you.
How could an article in a newspaper with an unabashedly liberal editorial staff be considered “true” news? If you don’t see bias, it is because you agree with the bias.
An article that does not discuss the debates that raged several times within the scientific community itself during early 2020 laid the foundation of the mistrust between government and scientists at present. Any mention of how China suppressed the scientific community? No, China was a helpless victim that tried to spread the word. Why couldn’t we get PPE? Obviously a FED mistake because all the countries producing masks were using them at an unprecedented scale.
Any idea what the ave. life expectancy of a Nigerian is? Would think that might be a useful fact in an article making a comparison to the US.
Any mention of who loudly protested the cancelling of flights to China or threat of closing borders? Kind of a big tell there.
US made plenty of mistakes, but to assign blame in a disproportionate manner only increases probability of future recurrence. Our two party system failed.
Meanwhile, Ireland goes full lockdown for another 6 weeks because of 1000 new daily cases- total pop is 5m. Is that the way? They haven’t been able to travel greater then 5 Kms for 5 or 6 of last 7 months. But they let tourists in and allowed pubs to function in certain areas. If I had to sit in place for 6 months while jokers in Dublin were going crazy, I’d be losing it.
Czech R has 11k new dailies for 10m!
WI still holding our own with 3800 for 6m..
Quoted from gweempose:There is an excellent documentary that just came out called "Totally Under Control" which explores this in depth.
Quoted from cottonm4:Do you have a link?
You can rent it on demand. It will also be on Hulu starting tomorrow.
Quoted from Daditude:I'm glad I wasn't drinking coffee when I watched that! Lol!!
Lol , it was Australia's highest selling single for years .
Goes to show you how culturally diverse Australia is .
Also comes in handy when you can't be bothered responding to dick heads 
Ok, Trogdor I agree with aspects of what you are saying, but respectfully disagree with several points. Here are a couple of quick thoughts:
Quoted from Trogdor:An interesting article, but if you can’t read the bias- you aren’t critically reading. Pulitzer Prize finalist doesn’t mean unbiased- simply means other biased editors and journalists agreed with you.
How could an article in a newspaper with an unabashedly liberal editorial staff be considered “true” news? If you don’t see bias, it is because you agree with the bias.
Agreed that the paper traditionally has had a moderately liberal (center left) bias. You are overblowing the degree of liberal bias in the paper. Its not like it is The Nation, or Mother Jones here. Strongly disagree with the implications that conservative biased writers are discriminated against by the Pulitzer committee. Among other things, they do not give out Pulitzers for hatchet jobs regardless of viewpoint.
Quoted from Trogdor:An article that does not discuss the debates that raged several times within the scientific community itself during early 2020 laid the foundation of the mistrust between government and scientists at present. Any mention of how China suppressed the scientific community? No, China was a helpless victim that tried to spread the word
This is worthy of a lot of discussion. As far as being blind to what was happening...if only we had had a team in China dedicated to monitoring and investigating new novel diseases as they cropped up....
Quoted from Trogdor:Why couldn’t we get PPE? Obviously a FED mistake because all the countries producing masks were using them at an unprecedented scale.
We STILL have not required the limited USA manufacturing base to sell exclusively to USA until our needs are met. There is documented evidence of CEOs giving the government heads up early on that they were getting huge spikes in foreign orders and asking if the USA wanted first dibs. And the administration never responded. So the PPE was sold abroad. We have a playbook describing exactly what we should do in these situations. It was not followed at all. It was and is an obvious huge fed mistake.
Quoted from Trogdor:Any mention of who loudly protested the cancelling of flights to China or threat of closing borders? Kind of a big tell there
Here again is some stuff I partially agree with mixed in with stuff I strongly disagree with. As far as the closure, long discussion but briefly this was a situation of what was said vs. what was actually done. I agree that there was a reflexive response to oppose whatever was going to be said or done which was not helpful. In the end, travel was not truly shutdown in any effective way, and this had nothing to do with the objections of the other side. What was done was a bunch of puff your chest speeches with little to no actual timely changes on the ground (or in the air as it were).
Quoted from Trogdor:WI still holding our own with 3800 for 6m..
If by holding our own you mean the near collapse of the healthcare system, then yeppers its all aces. Hurray for field hospitals!
Quoted from Trogdor:WI still holding our own with 3800 for 6m..
Oregon's average thruout the past 6 months is about 300 new virus cases per day for population of 4.3 million.
They must be doing something right. Like wearing masks.
Things must be getting better.
I opened Apple news this morning and the first article says the numbers are up in half the states.
Yesterday the top article said numbers are up in 48/50 states.
This whole year has been a game of fun with fractions.
Rather than a link, read wherever.
Look up the Crimson Contaigen Report, conducted in 2019, and leaked early in Dec. 2019, before the virus hit, but directly related to issues, actions, inaction, and subsequent rhetoric. The discrepancies and hypocrisy is glaring.
Quoted from Trogdor:An interesting article, but if you can’t read the bias- you aren’t critically reading. Pulitzer Prize finalist doesn’t mean unbiased- simply means other biased editors and journalists agreed with you.
How could an article in a newspaper with an unabashedly liberal editorial staff be considered “true” news? If you don’t see bias, it is because you agree with the bias.
An article that does not discuss the debates that raged several times within the scientific community itself during early 2020 laid the foundation of the mistrust between government and scientists at present. Any mention of how China suppressed the scientific community? No, China was a helpless victim that tried to spread the word. Why couldn’t we get PPE? Obviously a FED mistake because all the countries producing masks were using them at an unprecedented scale.
Any idea what the ave. life expectancy of a Nigerian is? Would think that might be a useful fact in an article making a comparison to the US.
Any mention of who loudly protested the cancelling of flights to China or threat of closing borders? Kind of a big tell there.
US made plenty of mistakes, but to assign blame in a disproportionate manner only increases probability of future recurrence. Our two party system failed.
Meanwhile, Ireland goes full lockdown for another 6 weeks because of 1000 new daily cases- total pop is 5m. Is that the way? They haven’t been able to travel greater then 5 Kms for 5 or 6 of last 7 months. But they let tourists in and allowed pubs to function in certain areas. If I had to sit in place for 6 months while jokers in Dublin were going crazy, I’d be losing it.
Czech R has 11k new dailies for 10m!
WI still holding our own with 3800 for 6m..
Nice - we still have 'both sides' arguments being made.
If anything - the article didn't place enough blame on the current administration that is currently in charge of pandemic response. If you think, "hey, we did a great/good/ok/acceptable job" - then perhaps a bias has clouded comprehension of the situation?
If I perform poorly on an important task - I don't look around and find other poor performers to commiserate with, compare myself to and make excuses or blame the task. I look around to see if anyone did better and if that is the case, then the task was not the problem - it was definitely me.
How did professional grievance, blame placing, projection, responsibility dodging, and pouty disgruntlement come into such fashion lately?
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