Me too. Healthy as a horse since November.

I got my flu shot 2 weeks ago.

Let's go back to playing pinball

We're all the same side here

Pinside!

<needs mic drop emoji lol>

Aussie scientists have found the virus can live on non-porous surfaces for up to 28 days . It dies quicker with warmer temperatures and last longer in colder temperatures .
This would explain why it's so hard to get rid of this crap .
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-12/coronavirus-can-live-on-surfaces-28-days-australian-scientists/12752108

There are plenty of other threads about playing pinball if that's what you want, but this thread has graciously been left open by the Pinside team even though it requires a lot of work on their part.

This is a global health crisis and we as a species could learn some humility.

I'm sorry that you refuse to be educated about the matter, but it doesn't change what is going on.

You’re beginning to almost sound Canadian.

Is it at all Possible that your information is coming from Newscorp, with its 142 Newspaper, TV, Sports, and Dominance over AU news?

We have learned here how much of a feedback loop this has here with our govt leaders.
Giuliani, campaigning yesterday, states, "People dont die, of this disease anymore"

My friends in AU and I have gone back and forth, using immediately new news stories, to share how the politics of media come into play. All views.

There are the bullshit type of lies.

There are the horseshit type of lies.

There are the chickenshit type of lies.

And then there is telling the truth.

Pick one.

Don’t rush him, he’s got a lot of stages to work through still.

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I heard this will be the worst flu season yet, until next year.

Seriously, how can this flu season possibly be nearly as bad with all of the distance, masks, bleach and other precautions?

I see nothings changed from page 59 to 387
Keep fighting the good fight guys

No I don't hold much value to newscorp. There are less "popular" but undoubtedly more reliable sources of information still available here, it just requires to actually look for it rather than taking only what you are "fed". Actually our A.B.C. always seemed fairly objective and reliable, publically owned, but in recent years they have been supporting some pretty questionable arguments here and there as well.

Good observation there anyway, more people aught to pay better attention too. This has been an issue on the radar here for citizens for decades now.

Our persuasive media baron has spread tentacles all around in the past decade or so. Good to take note of how some of the arrangements appear to operate.

I'm agnostic. Grain of salt is default for me.

It is a mistake to assume that just because I question something that does not seem to add up, that I must agree with whatever polar opposite argument. Alot of the time it appears that both "sides" lack credibility, while the truth is not even out there at all.

Believing without question is crazy whether your looking at mainstream filtered "information", or outrageous (unfiltered) conspiracy theory claims. The former has alot of important information filtered out and a bit of junk thrown in, while the latter just has huge mountains of rubbish filtered in. Each has to be looked at, while taking this into consideration.

I have a tight definition on "evidence" and "fact", that's all. Very sceptical, due to uncovering and proving misconseptions I have had in the past. I consider a very wide range, but also don't hold much weight at all to things that can not be well substantiated.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!

It actually isn't black and white. It's really quite cloudy. Telling the truth is subjective, if you believe something, and you share it, as far as you are concerned you are telling the truth. Doesn't mean what you are telling is correct. It's just honestly sharing a held belief, right or wrong. An honest person can still be incorrect.

Many questions I have, arise from the glaring inconsistencies in "newscorp information". So yes I do see it, but evidence and fact are very thin on the ground... lots of speculation, theories and opinion.

All due credit, to any whom notice or see a glaring and obvious inconsistency, and so decide to ask the really tough questions. Even when they wind up having No Clear answer.

Bravo Mississippi, you managed to hit 100% positive tests this week:

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/tracker/overview

I've been wondering what it would be like if the whole country was shut down like California.

You know, no concerts, no fans at sporting events, no schools, no Disneyland or other theme parks. Many non essential businesses still closed. Stringent, but not necessarily followed bar and restaurant regulations. And, of course, the powers that be pleading for everyone to wear masks, although that has become a dicknose shadow of it's former self. Nobody really seems to care or complain as long as a mask is hanging somewhere. Crowded protesting in the street seems accepted, although I don't usually partake.

I've had no problem with it as I have used the time to take care of things around here, and got a lot of shit done with plenty more to do. And by now certainly not worried about getting seriously ill from this virus. The cleaner air and the minimum amount of traffic and tourists has been pure heaven. Just wondering how long the entire country could survive in a similar kind of lockdown.

A virologist was saying today that besides the cold driving people inside the virus can live longer in the cold. Additionally, he said people receive more of a dose in the cold weather although I didn’t understand how.

I have hope that with the masking and social distancing our flu season this year will be mild.

However, the reason for pushing the flu shot this year is to try and make sure the flu season isn't bad so we don't have to deal with coronavirus AND a bad flu season at the same time.

People are more likely to be inside which equates to higher viral particle densities. In summer humidity tends to be lower, people are outside more and there is wind and sunlight to disperse and help inactivate virus.

Don't read too much into it though. The Trial Conditions being unrealistic, and highly controlled to promote survival, of course. This has already been pointed out by several other academic peers/groups, that these findings have quite limited direct usefulness or practical application in the real world environment, and they seem to question the media propagation of such irrelevant (to the public) trials.

Also we've just finished being told it is contracted via aerosols, airborne. Meaning you can contract it easily while it is suspended in the air. Once it is stuck on a surface it is done, good place for it to be, assuming people exercise a bit of basic personal hygiene.

So cold kills the flu but heat kills the C19? Or, rather doesn't help it? That is not a good scenario.

Feed a cold, starve a fever or however that goes,,,

I’d really like if you could list 3-5 less popular news sources that you frequently read. I also like diverse perspectives so that I can sift through the static. If they are “undoubtedly more reliable sources” then I’d Like to access them also. Please, I’d like to know not only where you get your information from, but I’d also like the truth.

I disagree here with you. I believe facts are black and white. Nothing is to cloudy to see through. I think you’re talking about opinion, not truth.

Yes, it's concerning that we don't hear more about the preparations for this. It wasn't long ago I learned that we will need two shots 6 weeks apart, so the problem is 2x what I thought it was. There is also an issue with distribution and storage that has been kept low-key. Some of the candidate vaccines (I believe the leading candidate is one) must be shipped and stored at -70 C (-94 F). I have no idea how many hospitals are equipped to handle this.

As far as distribution time, that's just math. Using the 150M doses mentioned earlier, at a very optimistic 1 minute per shot and 16 hour days, it will take 428 person-years to administer. If we have 1000 sites to administer the shots that will be 5 months.

Not to sure how long businesses will make it.
In my area businesses have jumped through hoops , set up tents for outside eating, 6 foot spaces, spending double what they make and complied with all boss government rules. The "test rate" increases and they try to shut them down , but there is a lot of push back . As many places are temp closed, it's really scary seeing the amount of them permanently closing. We may become a great ghost country....

I wonder how much the country could take before it would be a complete collapse? Our debt load now matches the level of debt that had to be covered after WW 2. We are in hock up to out eyeballs. And we can't print money forever.

Everybody has their hand out to Uncle Sugar: The airlines, the gig workers, small businesses, the unemployed are all crying for help. Wall Street especially has its long arm extended; Always clamoring for more stimulus and zero interest rates.

If this stuff does not go away, it could get fugly.

Pure speculation:

Maybe because the medical care necessary to get us through a typical flu season will be severely lacking (diverted) this year?

That or someone was sidetracked and forgot to sacrifice the appropriate number of goats.

It’s a coping mechanism for me for sure.

I see no adult humans beyond my wife in real life anymore so at least allow me this dammit.

Maybe some public shaming of the non-make wearers will make a showing as it did in 1918. According to this article, anyway:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/03/us/woodrow-wilson-coronavirus-trnd/

"With the country at war, wearing masks was seen as patriotic. People who didn't wear them were shamed in public service announcements and news headlines for their defiance.

"Lots of elected officials as well as public health officers were telling people to wear masks as part of their civic duty," Navarro told CNN. "They were trying to tap into this idea that if you couldn't be over there fighting alongside our boys overseas, you could be doing your part here on the home front."

Something to keep an eye on that does not bode well either for the vaccine approach or the herd immunity approach: reinfection.

First few stories I read on it suggested that in rare instances mild / asymptomatic cases could get reinfected.

Very limited data thus far globally (ie appears to be rare) but more data is now suggesting having one strain doesn’t necessarily make you immune to all strains.

More importantly the second time tends to be worse than the first.

here is an article or two:

https://www.cleveland.com/coronavirus/2020/10/first-confirmed-case-of-coronavirus-reinfection-in-us-casts-doubt-on-immunity-protection.html?outputType=amp

https://www.newsweek.com/covid-reinefction-death-netherlands-nevada-man-1538542

This just got me thinking of my pre-pinball life as a mold remediation and water damage contractor, haven't needed to use Psychometry for a while!

So here in the land of ice and snow, in the winter of course everyone gets together inside, and ventilation during the heating season is not really an option, and with the huge temperature differential, as much as -35C/-31F outdoors vs. 22C/72F indoors, the Relative Humidity inside is generally very low (30-40 % RH).

My question is how will this combination of low RH and closed heating systems affect viral particle densities in indoor areas in the colder climate regions?

Our National Debt is a huge Problem. It is estimated, and only an estimate, that US debt has doubled in 4 years.
Its like celebrating the great new TV on the credit card, until the Bill comes in the mail.
In this light, small things, for me, to share.
Notice received yesterday, that my Homeowners insurance is cancelled. Company pulling out because of Hurricanes, and Rash of Roof and other Fraud.
Received my Health Insurance Renewal....OMG! Wait till you see the rates for next year!

I still cant believe we have a Mask vs herd debate. Or that in all this time, so little care and respect for healthcare workers,
and whatever decisions come from the top, show so little concern for them.
Its like, Herd Immunity is great. Either we ignore the sick, or accept the possibility of health care collapse.

Its going to get crazier, I believe.....I see shortages of Adult Flu Vaccine around me....2 out of 8 locations had them, and were running out....

Or How long to Vaccinate 150 Million? Well for some, the 150 Million registered voters are expected to show up in person and all vote in one day. I guess they believe this is possible, so maybe we can share it will take one day or a little more, to vaccinate the whole country, if we can all vote in one day.

We simply still dont know....What percentage of people recovered will be reinfected?
Will this change in a year? What about animals? We lost 10,000 Mink in farms recently.....Any other possible issues, with mutation? Livestock?
We dont know. Im aware of Pediatric studies that are checking Pregnancy issues, with Covid, Miscarriages, as well as any developmental issues we dont know yet.
I see a flat line in China, and a soaring line here.....Perhaps, we have been led down a path that is right, or very wrong.
But "inbetween" seems to be the biggest problem forward.

For my Pinball and Personal friends in AU. Ive been around the Block with dialogue and News on Wildfires/Climate Change,
The Virus, and Minorities (US issues vs Aboriginals). So much of the differences, are media controlled.
Controversies, create viewership, which equals $$$.

I need the days of Walter Cronkite.

The flu does well in the cold though.

Information, "evidence", that I might reference, some goes back more than half a century. Things people long forgotten. People only remember "history" and not so much the pieces of info that were more accurate, and kept a bit obscured. Alot of the scraps of evidence left behind that one might find, inevitably are circumstantial, meaning alot more of it is needed for it to have any meaning as evidence. Very few references I'd be able to get published here, since particularly significant information can't be raised due to the restrictions (too much is either about Pomplitics or Off-topic). I'll send a PM though.

It sounds to me like we actually agree there on the "facts" bit, but maybe words are mixed together. Facts either are, or are not. "Black or White". Y/N? . I was referencing the word "Truth" though not fact. Truth and Fact are not the same thing at all. Evidence is not the same as "fact" either. Truth is being honest but with implication they "know" something, and a person can be honest and wrong at the same time. If a person Believes some hypothetical thing is secret and Real (but have it Wrong for whatever reason), then if asked by someone to "tell me the truth" ... well they certainly can actually tell the (their) truth and still be Wrong. Like feelings and Opinion, truth is drawn from beliefs (which may be factual, but also maybe not). Truth and Opinion are closer to one another, than either of them are to Fact. People need to re-check the definition of what a "fact" actually is. Then add "verified" as a prefix. Then mark that as something you Know. Know goes along well with Fact. Believe goes along well with Truth.

There are multiple "truths" out there that can not coexist, for some topics. People choose their favorite version of "fact" to suit their beliefs, teachings, or "understandings". Call Everything else crazy, instead of seeing it from other unfamiliar sides and realising the rubbish is kindof mixed in everywhere.

Use appropriate words to suit the meaning of what we're discussing or conveying.

Save the word "fact" for the very few pieces that do actually qualify as facts. Also interestingly, philosophy, "facts" can be a little like Schrödinger's cat. Dead or alive? .... If the tree falls and there is nobody there to hear it, does it make a sound?

Unfortunately I honestly have very few covid Facts to bring to the table for you here. Plenty of circumstantial evidence and evidence that I can not conclusively verify. Data, depending on it's validity (which stands to be proven if it has not been), is fact in some contexts (like in it's raw form), but it becomes things like conjecture, prediction, or interpretation once ...... interpreted. Statistics may well be facts in the beginning, but when you apply assumptions, "corrections", be selective, and make predictions to go with it..... the fact component becomes rapidly watered down. Go off on too much of a tangent with being one eyed, or fail to consider a couple of significant influences... now these "funy facts" can become akin to good imagination in some cases, and get plugged as if they were still in some way facts.. screaminr posted a link earlier of an example where things are distorted, with respect to real world conditions.

If we're looking for some word to switch around with "fact", to use which can actually have similar meanings, "reality" is a sort of close one. "Truth" gets to be much too dependent on the person, beliefs, and subjectivity. It can be used for a feeling. Switch around "truthful" with "honest" perhaps, those are much closer. Also yes I acknowledge there is the binary "True/False" aspect, but also like "fact" this is used outside of appropriate context all too often. Yeah "Truth" and "Fact" can be similar in some narrow contexts, but they go to different concepts. Like the resistance so often confused with immunity thing, they're more like contrasting concepts, opposites in a way.

I think the evidence or source for these definitions and variations is in the English dictionary and/or thesaurus?

I think that the close proximity of people in an indoor area with a recirculating air flow pattern would be more likely to increase transmission.

In the warmer months people are more likely to be outside and there is increased distancing, more UV light and particles are dispersed more quickly by the wind.

As an aside, I’ve seen several people talk about heat and cold and viral risks. I just want to make clear that it’s not a black or white issue. Even though viruses are generally more transmissible in winter months due to multiple factors that doesn’t mean they don’t transmit in warmer months.

Most thoughtful people understand that the various measures we take to combat COVID are not all or nothing; ie masks, social distancing, hand washing, etc. There are still people out there arguing the “is it masking, is it heat, is it distancing, what is it” argument which is really an overly simplistic way to look at any complex process.

Covid scare at work, an office girl’s nephew, who she is frequently in close contact with, tested positive. Luckily I work for a great owner(father-in-law), he immediately shut down our whole operation, everyone has to be tested before returning to work. He is paying for all testing and everyone’s time off. We’ve been told to wait 5 days before getting tested. Looks like I’ll be home for a while.

Yes I Understand that indoor minimally ventilated spaces are a huge problem, I've kept my Arcade closed since two days before it was mandated in March, and have not re-opened even though we had a few months where I could have, I just did not feel it was responsible, and now we're closed again anyway in any event...

But aside from how UV and temperature help or hurt the virus itself, what I was wondering specifically, once indoors, is if the lower RH is going to cause the viral load to be even higher since the indoor dry heated air will be able to hold more moisture from respired aerosols, as opposed to in a humid closed environment with a high RH, or would the humid environment be more likely to keep the viral load higher? Sorry if this doesn't make sense, your insight is greatly appreciated always.

Free money is good.

Nothing is free, next thing you know he’s going to tell me I have to run the Florida shop this winter.

Just got back from grocery shopping. It's official. Not many seem to care anymore. Not even some of the older obese people.

They are over it!

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Work Scare here also...

New guy started 10/1 worked all day Thursday/Friday. Called out sick the following week and in that week he went for testing. Results came back testing positive for Covid19. Thursday 10/8 management and upper management tell our health guys and await a response. 10/9 the response was that anyone in close contact (6-feet) need to quarantine and get tested. I think 2 people that sat within his cube area are out this week so far. No need for a super duper cleaning because its been over 5 days since he was last here.

Our policy is that we are allowed to sit in our cubes without a mask on (if we want). Only when your walking around or talking with someone else are masks mandated. We also get temperature checked before coming into our space. He did everything right - got temperature tested and sat there without a mask on for 80% of the day. He sits 45-50 feet away from me I guess its a good thing to keep my mask on full time at work since coming back in late April.

I fully expect more cases like this in my office as we head towards the New Year.

I’m not a virology expert but I wouldn’t think that the relative humidity would end up making a significant difference relative to other factors in a small space with a small sample size. Just my opinion.

I hear the weather is beautiful in Florida that time of year.

The county I live in (Centre, PA population 162K) is home to Penn State. Prior to the students fall return we had 350 cases total. Post student return since September 3,600! The university is spinning it that's it's under control, numbers say otherwise. I have stopped working in the downtown area, now I'm renovating empty condo's and townhouses.

My unprofessional opinion is try to keep your house humidity Between 40-60%RH. To dry and your skin will crack and become more susceptible, while to moist is unhealthy also. (Bonus Your pinball machines will be happy in that range too)

I have a humidifier built into my furnace with a HEPA filter for the whole house and large ionic air purifiers in the bedrooms.

I don’t know if it helps, but it help me feel ok.

Isn't the humidity higher in the summer and lower in the winter?

My 19 year old nephew has it, and first exhibited symptoms 11 days ago. He's been sick as shit. Fever and headache and cough. Luckily he somehow managed to not spread it to his brother or dad, who he had been around in the days leading up to his symptoms. He was around my sister and my mom at a baseball game the day before he got sick, but not in their faces and obviously outside - and it was windy and sunny. Everybody is coming out of quarantine now that was around him and luckily all seemed to dodge it, but that kid is healthy as a horse and it's really had him down.

Is it Official? Our best plan?

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-embraces-herd-immunity-in-wake-of-his-recovery-from-covid-19-200322727.html

The only way to achieve herd immunity is to expose the herd to it. Especially since there has been more failure on the vaccine front over the last couple days.