TIL this has a name - Gish Gallop - thank you! Screenshot below of the Wiki on Gish Gallop:

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No, I will be happy when the liars, the willfully ignorant and the morally corrupt go the fuck away.

Name checks out.

That is what would happen, when academics whom disagree are silenced, or censored. No division at all now! is there?... especially once you effectively eliminate all but one side of an investigation.

More dumb "opinion" pieces here, extremist like propoganda, that people convince themselves into thinking can be called some sort of "unequivocal evidence".

Tough concept for some, challenging to educate those been left behind..

Whoa man!?! . You seem like one unreasonably angry fellow!?!. Often throwing around biased, and somewhat baseless accusations... more emotional based there perhaps?

Whom exactly are you calling "morally corrupt" here?

Maybe even consider getting that looked at!?

Just saw someone streaming on FB at Great American Pinball. No one wearing masks, everyone close together. Super spreader event happening live. Avoid Nogle & anyone who was there tonight. They’re not concerned about the health or safety of others.

Did you just tell someone to be polite while saying you're going to shoot them?

I'm not so sure. Let's take a survey. If anyone here can understand what the F razoredge's posts mean please speak up.

Global Gish Gallup Guidance Grid sounds so daunting. Glad we now just call it the internet.

Tech terminology can be difficult to comprehend. For example I still have no idea what 5G means..uh...emm . .oh shit!

NDT (resized).jpg

Do masks really work? Whole of U.K. has to wear them when out basically yet the second wave is triple the size of the first. Not sure they have much effect tbh. Seams economy crippling lockdowns are only way to stop this thing but that also kills the economy and takes every one else down with it.

Really starting to look like 2021 will be a total write off as well.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-health/2020/10/09/covid-19-cases-az-spiked-151-after-statewide-stay-home-order-and-dropped-75-following-local-mask-man/5911813002/

Can do the same in multiple other states.

Masks work giving the wearer up to 5 times the protection than not wearing one. Imagine getting a shot or taking a pill that gives that kind of protection?

Do I get at least 2.5 times the protection with my nose out? (Asking for a friend)

Just protection via airborne particles? Maybe it spreads the most via surfaces? And we really should be told to wear gloves?

I hope you are wrong but fear you might be right.

That being said I’m happy to write off this winter so going into spring/summer of 21 hopefully we can have all this behind us.

The votes here will tell an entertaining but expected story for a few still in the thread with reasonable comprehension. But likely most others will just go on, confused as before.

Unfortunate... but sometimes there is little you can do or say to help. Censorship, see. It is already alive and well sustaining this echo chamber we have here, preventing things from being said, amid cries of "where's your evidence?!" .... uh derr, dirty P word, I tried, not allowed to post that stuff!

Isn't it "officially" done now anyway?. Hasn't the LOTFW said masks and suppression are over and done?, no longer needed, carry on as usual!

"I'd buy THAT for a Dollar!!" lol

Yup, they work.
The problem for all was opening up to soon.
Bars, restaurants in UK. How much cleaning between each customer? Door handles, bathrooms, tables? It was a dirty world before covid, germs are everywhere.
Now ad covid breathing on top of that.

Yep and 5x without. You’re doing good, keep with it.

I just don’t believe that. We wear masks anytime around strangers. We also go into stores multiple times each day touching things. We do hand sanitize once we leave, but it isn’t foolproof. I’ve had a couple occasions where Ithought I might be coming down with something, but it was also likely allergies. So far, no COVID.

It’s more contagious through the air because it’s lighter than air. It can linger in the air 20 minutes after being expelled. It can live on surfaces like you said but I think it’s more dangerous when it floating around and mobile.

If it gets on your hands you’re not infected and you can wash them. If you breathe it in your nasal passage and lungs you can’t wash those.

Washing your hands very often would do the trick. Gloves would protect you... until you touch your face / adjust your mask or glasses.
Not even sure the virus would survive longer on your bare hands than on gloves!?

I would only wear gloves if I need to take care of someone sick.

I read another article today about this versus the flu.

If you get sick, the main way you can tell you have covid is that you lose your sense of smell.

(previously articles also mentioned loss of taste).

Stay safe and keep wearing masks my friends!

The new norm for me when I go shopping is always having a couple rags soaked in bleach with me in the car. Just give the keys and door handle a quick rub down when back to the car. Also, still wiping down anything that enters the house with bleach.

I generally feel safe at my local walmart and superstore as they both have mask wearing policies but not so much anywhere else. Started wearing safety glasses with my mask also.

Certainly interesting. Although seemingly selectively ignored (not for degree of merit) at various levels.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54442386

So there is obviously some amounts of suggestive evidence to consider, to counter other suggestive evidence that supressing it might be a good idea.

Just won't discover too much without looking. It won't all just jump out at you on purpose! lol

Guess what, supression might well be a Bad idea, too!

"Don't be so sure! ..." . . I don't know. I didn't take the extended time to read this one through completely. Just something slightly different though by the looks, to chew up and spit out...

I'm sure it all has nothing really to do with money.

These 3000 credentialed medicos will go the same way as thousands of engineers and hundreds of life saving "service proffessionals" did a bit over a decade ago. Silenced because they're deemed "wrong", despite their significant supporting evidence and expertise. Go figure.

Here’s my rant

Covid is not going away. This will become endemic just like a “normal flu” and kill “normally” tens of thousands of people each year just like the flu, unfortunately the first couple years of covid will not provide “herd immunity” we will need to “thin the herd” before covid decreases to normal flu activity.

A lot of people think the native Americans were killed through violence when the Spanish came, this is untrue. Most Native Americans were killed by small pox and other NEW viruses that were introduced to them. Well Covid is a NEW virus, that’s why it’s called a novel coronavirus, it’s new to the entire world population. Every one that this will severely impact runs the risk of death. The first couple years of covid will see hundreds of thousands of deaths globally until we thin the heard.

We will never reach heard immunity. The numbers don’t ad up. The covid antibodies only last in your system for ~3 months after that you can be reinfected, just like a normal flu. The new daily infection rate would need to be several hundred thousand per day to even hope to come close.

Mask wearing and hand washing will not keep you perfectly safe, but they are a good start. Everywhere you wear a mask you should also have goggles. These are safety precautions and do not guarantee 100% effectiveness, if they were 100% effective then you would not see doctors and front line workers become infected.

The CDC has said covid is airborne. This is scary. You could walk through a cloud of virus 30 minutes after someone coughed it out and still be infected. So unnecessary indoor time with more people then needed should be avoided. Do your shopping early in the morning before thousands of other people have been in the store that day.

Viral load is something to be concerned with. The more time that you are exposed to the virus the more likely you are to get it, and that you may develop a more severe case. Limit social interaction whenever possible. Social distancing helps, but is not 100%, it’s just another piece of the puzzle.

I think everyone will get it, and get it several times. My hope is that scientists will have discovered the best treatments by the time it comes to me, and if my case is severe enough, that there is a hospital bed waiting for me. This has the power to overload hospitals very quickly and we must do whatever we can to slow it down.

Flattening the curve is still a relevant thing to do. Judging by WorldOmeter this is killing about 3% of the infected population, but death is just one side of the story. Many people will continue to struggle with this for years to come, compassion is important. If society starts pointing fingers and saying “you got me infected” it won’t help. The world will never be the same, it’s time to move forward and work toward a new normal, whatever that will look like is to soon to tell.

To Long Didn’t Read:
This isn’t going to go away EVER. The worst is yet to come. Protect yourself and others. Buckle up, there’s a rough road ahead.

Also get outside. The sun give us vitamin D for free and it is very important for your immune system. Spend as much time as you can safely outside. The most important thing to do now is to keep yourself healthy. Work on boosting your bodies natural defences.

I need to do more of this.

The natural history of coronaviruses is that they tend to mutate to less virulent forms over time. I would say there’s a decent chance that COVID-19 may do the same thing. It will takes many years but it may turn out that COVID-19 eventually mutates into a virus that causes a seasonal cold.

The bad news is that that process may take many years and we have to deal with more virulent COVID in the meantime.

Given those assumptions, what's the long-term game here? No more large gatherings, ever? Concerts? Sporting events? High School quiz bowl? Family reunions? Church?

Yes, it has a name. Its called a pandemic!
2-3 years minimum before we even get close to normal again. Even then, things will never be the same. I know, its a bummer. Remember 9/11? FAA, flying on a plane changed forever. The same will happen again. Come April you won't be able to get past TSA without your rapid test.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic

I guess that depends on what you consider long term. If you are taking years down the road then I think we will be back to large gatherings and sporting events. If you are looking months down the road then I don’t think those kinds of events are going to be prudent.

If we can get a vaccine that incites a good antibody response then I think we can significantly reduce our disease levels in the US, IF people will take the vaccine in large numbers. If you only vaccinate 50% of the population I think the case numbers will go down some but the pandemic will continue to smolder.

Assuming a vaccine was fully tested and ready for production tomorrow. How long do you assume it will take to manufacture and administer 150 million doses?

My totally uneducated guess is that it would take months to manufacture and a miracle to convince enough people to be effective

Does any one else wonders what it would of been like if it never happened?

You'd think by now people would have moved on to acceptance.

Eight months is an awful long time to be in denial, but then it's pretty in vogue these days for a good chunk of the country.

I too thought the production would be a tough nut to crack. But...

Depends on which candidate you want to talk about, but many have been in production for months even as the trials aren’t nearly complete. At risk parallel manufacturing, but global governments are mostly footing that bill.

Some, like the Merck vaccine have the ability to produce at huge scale. Some of the newer players may have started their advanced trials first, but their production is tiny in comparison.

The tent poles right now seems to be distribution and administering the shots...oh and actually having a provable safe and effective vaccine.

I disagree with this. We have mandatory masks inside businesses in my state and everyone wears them, it's strictly enforced by all the businesses. Larger places like grocery stores and Home Depot will have someone stationed by the door to make sure you are wearing one and to limit the number of people in the store at a time. At this point after months of the mandate, absolutely everyone inside every grocery store, hardware store, or retail store here is wearing a mask. In the rural areas people occasionally get away with it, but in the city everyone is held to the same standard. Our infection rate is a lot lower than most states and Seattle has one of the lowest infection rates of any major city.

I would agree. Vaccine being available to the general public is many months away.

That doesn’t address the skepticism the public has about vaccines in general and this one in particular. It doesn’t help that the vaccine development process appears to be being rushed by the government. Safety should be the top priority, not timing.

I was told the Coronavirus was going to just miraculously disappear and that it's in the rearview mirror.

Was I being lied to?!

PSA - Get your flu shot! My family all got ours at CVS yesterday at no out of pocket cost - the three of us were in out and out in 15 minutes. The pharmacist said they are seeing increased demand this year. In my area they are not in danger of running out, but they are being asked by corporate to report inventory sooner than normal. I have seen some news reports of supplies running tight on the over 65 flu vaccine.

It will be interesting to see if Covid has an impact on the flu season - heightened awareness with most of the population paying more attention to masking, washing, vaccinating, and distancing.

Depends if you are wanting to look at something specific. I’d have been at MGC and expo this year if it didn’t happen.

COVID-19 isn’t the first virus nor will it be the last.

It's pretty obvious, a "Vaccine" for cv19 just looks like a blatant money scam, an agenda, just like the hyped HIV "vaccine" was.

Deadly "novel" coronavirus escape, very real! ... as any reasonable person would surely agree. Deadly. Still, blatantly the result of mankinds manipulation and medling though, whether it be deliberate or not.

Resistance is already building rapidly, evidently. But, using the term "Immunity" when talking about natural Resistance is quite a misleading thing to parrot, and a great way to confuse alot of people. Just like misquoting the context of "hoax". It is not the existance of Cv19 that is claimed to be a hoax by some of the people that might use such a word, but rather the story being propogated behind it. Maybe. Reality is that no company makes money from natural resistance. It does cost companies money!

Nobody needs to be immune if everyone gets a reasonable degree of resistance. That is never going to happen though while people isolate and wear masks, obviously. You have yourselves a catch 22, how to get Out of it! . If this turned out to be true, then knowing this, wearing masks and inhibiting spread would turn out to be the potentially morally corupt deliberate actions. Disallowing ongoing resistance or tolerance. Not definitive though is it, despite the unreasonable certainty of Some from either extreme.

A few with vested interest in it certainly might be keen for it to be as drawn out as possible, propogate fear and misinformation, for need to justify the resourses going toward the faux vaccine "campaign", the corrupt side of a big money pharma machine.

It is over as far as most citizens around this state seem to be concerned, that is just the way it's going down here, and we seem to be back to getting random bouts of flu etc. getting around as well which is a relief to so many... no serious hospitalisations going around either... that is just describing some observations from the general area of the world that I am in.

Of course the effects can be different for different circumstances, totally fair to conclude that. Health is of course going to be a factor. People here probably have better fitness levels on average, than some other parts of the country or world. Obesity is a killer risk for covid in some places.

We've had no mask requirement's at all, have not been asked or told to wear masks at any time through the entire thing. In fact we were specifically asked Not to. Other more considered measures are in place however, but still fairly minimal in terms of actual restrictions. Public pinball meets, and big stadium events have been back for several months now (stadiums going for max 50% capacity though still).

Entire covid wards/hospitals empty, awaiting the deadly outbreak that never really comes for most places... while elective surgery is getting an ever increasing backlog and being seriously neglected. Fear of covid is increasingly looking dumb, and dumber. There are far worse things that should be much more concerning.

People have died, many hundreds of thousands this year across the world. Millions even. All sorts of reasons, including things like hundreds of thousands of deaths from medical malpractice (maybe less this year since people avoiding hospitals unless truly essential), or deaths from treatable serious conditions untreated due to Not attending A&ER and dying when they wouldn't have, just some of Many examples. Just like any other year though still, deaths, caused by life. Cv19 is now at the point where it's obviously blown out of all proportion by media and money.

All systems go for us, including cinemas, restraunts and pubs. Been that way since May/June really. I suppose we will see how that continues to go, ongoing. Negative side, we might be behind on resistance due to over-suppression. There's been no new big spread events at all anywhere, despite there being the odd "confirmed cases" about the joint.

We aren't testing even half as much anymore, either. I guess cases still happen and not identified.

It is essentially business as usual here atm, fear and loathing has not run out of control or become unreasonable, and that is fine by me.

I Feel for everyone that this is harming. Covid itself, as well as other ways. Of course.

Correct, I know next to nothing in the bigger picture, same as the next person. I do care though.

Realising I know Relatively nothing (vs Everything) is a big step. same for the next guy. Information is not the same as knowing.

More critical thinking.

I'd like to Know what I am caring for, that it actually is for good. It is hard to be completely sure these days.

Interesting:

https://gizmodo.com/covid-19-can-live-on-smartphone-screens-for-up-to-28-da-1845346747

I don't know what you are talking about exactly but developing "resistance" to a virus isn't something that happens. You are either immune to a virus or you are not. Some people are more susceptible to disease than others due to multiple factors but that isn't "resistance" to a disease.

I would think it would have to. This is the longest I've ever gone without being sick, under my current protocols and still working from home, I can't imagine I could catch the flu. But I'm still getting the shot.

Respectfuly, that is <cough> B.S. , unless making some extreme assumptions, and things being overlooked.

Last line seems to make alot of sense, although arguable depending exactly how you are defining "resistance", or tolerance. It does also reflect what appears to be happening.

You're a funny guy!

It is interesting though, that you say all that.