(Topic ID: 264520)

The official Coronavirus containment thread

By Daditude

4 years ago


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#19200 3 years ago
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#19201 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Any "corporation" that censors "Qanon or whatever" is doing us a huge service. That stuff should be banished into obscurity.
This kind of nonsense is a public menace and is literally killing people.

I'll respectfully agree to disagree. Censorship is not a good path to follow.

I don't want this turning political (and again, I'm not suggesting Q is true or false), I just have a large bug up my bum about media censorship.

We should all think carefully before " requesting" it.

#19202 3 years ago
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#19204 3 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

Anyone posting unfounded conspiracy theories gets no love on this thread from me. A spot on the Joe Rogan show does not move a theory from unfounded to founded, lol. It's like whackamole and I am glad to use the hammer. Shouldn't be a surprise.
Conspiracies are designed and promoted to distract and/or downplay the threat from the virus. Promoting them results in increased sickness and death. It is a serious matter.
So serious that Facebook (late, IMO, but finally) whacked Qanon from the entire site. Based on comments, there are a few Q influenced people on this thread. I think Pinside should consider the same approach. Deliberate relaying of misinformation should be cause for eject from the thread.
[quoted image]

Good argument! Lol

Maybe stop relaying the unsubstantiated mainstream misinformation then.

If this was passed, what has dwindled to a mostly mainstream propoganda echo chamber (since most whom have worked some basic things out have moved on), would completely fizzle out.

Assuming now only extremely rare "facts" can be posted.

If we want to hear mainstream "stories" over and over, might as well just watch the telly!

There are also a few words you obviously don't have a handle on the definition of, so demonstrating the lack of comprehension there.

This "Q" whatever nonsense you're so passionate about absolutely seems to be based in theories and misinformation, to cloud the realities, just as most mainstrem info seems to be. So many too oblivious, or not bothering to check their "knowledge", not attempting to properly verify, so that ultimately they don't discover very much that is realistic or reasonable at all.

Hillarious post. Quite entertaining. Thanks

#19205 3 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Im waiting for someone to do a Covid retheme of a Pinball.
Mask Multiball
Light PPE ramp
Quarantine Jackpot
Avoid the Covid Virus shots when lit
Social Media Frenzy

Possible cabinet design leak?
Looks like covid pin is gonna be a widebody: )
Kinda like the side mounted coin door.

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#19207 3 years ago
Quoted from Luckydogg420:

Is it airborne? What’s that mean?

I believe its totally airborne ......its like looking at fog on a much smaller scale micro droplets floating in the air. If you look at some of the contact tracing done in South Korea in restaurants and work places ,,,,many of the people that got infected were not close to patient 0 but were directly under or close to the air handler system. I believe this is the reason that cruise ships, office buildings, schools and aircraft have the potential to be super spreader instruments.
Installing UV-C lights in air handler systems is going to be big business in the next couple of years .....think I'm going to try and find who the big players are in this industry and buy stocks.
I believe wearing a mask is not fool proof but decreases the amount of viral load that you are exposed to, which may in the long run serve to make your immune system stronger. without a mask next to an infected person your sucking in the full dose.
If masks were not effective we would have a lot more dead Doctors and Nurses, people we can't afford to lose right now. I applaud their dedication.
Not trying to get political here but prime examples are what happened at the White House and what has happened in churches at choir practice. I'm curious as to what the air handler system were like in the meat packing plants. I'd be willing to bet that the air handler system in the White House needs an upgrade

11
#19208 3 years ago
Quoted from RonSS:

I'll respectfully agree to disagree. Censorship is not a good path to follow.
I don't want this turning political (and again, I'm not suggesting Q is true or false), I just have a large bug up my bum about media censorship.
We should all think carefully before " requesting" it.

They aren't being censored. They're free to make their own website to peddle their opinions. No company is obligated to provide a platform for someone/something that they find offensive. Off topic but this thread has really slowed down with useful rona talk.

#19209 3 years ago
Quoted from RonSS:

I'll respectfully agree to disagree. Censorship is not a good path to follow.
I don't want this turning political (and again, I'm not suggesting Q is true or false), I just have a large bug up my bum about media censorship.
We should all think carefully before " requesting" it.

Here here...

To want things you happen to not agree with (for whatever thought) to be censored, only because one "believes" some conflicting story, only promotes the retardedness.

People generally only want censorship when there is something to Hide, or that they Really want suppressed.

Instead of wanting "conflicting" information censored, a reasonable person would consider it ... and if finding evidence based disagreement, would Disprove it ... or accept it as a possibility.

The only things that would not be censored are the stories that "prove" nothing corrupt is going on. Censorship is mainly about stopping everyday people learning about corruption.

Discovering flawed beliefs, and change... can be tough. So I found. I didn't always take the objective view... but it so happens things can transpire that make you wake up a bit.

Why can we not talk about certain topics? ... because they are divisive, and if people shared notes for long enough and enough reason is applied, some basic home truths would settle to the surface. Can't have that now. Also these days, too many passionately confused people to be able to maintain a civil and reasoned dicussion within any larger groups. How it is supposed to be?

Dodgy people Certainly would be advocating HARD for as much censorship as they can get!. It is in their best interests.

Look how stupid and backwards censorship works out to be now now. People can be offended by confronting things and want them censored "just because". Also though, I can choose not to care about someone being offended, which I won't care if I find it unreasonable and/or it makes no basic sense.

There is no "choosing" censorship. ... Whom decides, and makes these rules for censorship? ... only the person whom is "right"?? . Nobody crooked I suppose, ever!

#19210 3 years ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

To want things you happen to not agree with (for whatever thought) to be censored, only because one "believes" some conflicting story, only promotes the retardedness.
People generally only want censorship when there is something to Hide, or that they Really want suppressed.
Instead of wanting "conflicting" information censored, a reasonable person would consider it ... and if finding evidence based disagreement, would Disprove it ... or accept it as a possibility.
The only things that would not be censored are the stories that "prove" nothing corrupt is going on. Censorship is mainly about stopping everyday people learning about corruption.

Are you talking about blasphemy? There are a lost of people that don’t have critical thinking skills and just listen to what they are told, so providing these people with conflicting ideas could really mess them up. They think what they hear as the absolute truth. (No matter how crazy It sounds)

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#19211 3 years ago

There are well known rules in place for private forums. Well known rules in place for public forums. Rules shift based on where you are talking and there are still arguments about the rules periodically.

General rule of thumb: If you spout a combination of crazy and bigotry, odds are you will need to seek out a receptive forum. Most public facing ones won’t want to touch you with a 10 foot pole and for good reason. Qanon is one part ignorant, two parts bigoted, and 7 parts bat shit crazy. It has no place in civil society and should be ridiculed and shamed out of existence.

Same goes for other hate groups. They deserve no forum and no voice.

#19212 3 years ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Here here...
To want things you happen to not agree with (for whatever thought) to be censored, only because one "believes" some conflicting story, only promotes the retardedness.
People generally only want censorship when there is something to Hide, or that they Really want suppressed.
Instead of wanting "conflicting" information censored, a reasonable person would consider it ... and if finding evidence based disagreement, would Disprove it ... or accept it as a possibility.
The only things that would not be censored are the stories that "prove" nothing corrupt is going on. Censorship is mainly about stopping everyday people learning about corruption.
Discovering flawed beliefs, and change... can be tough. So I found. I didn't always take the objective view... but it so happens things can transpire that make you wake up a bit.
Why can we not talk about certain topics? ... because they are divisive, and if people shared notes for long enough and enough reason is applied, some basic home truths would settle to the surface. Can't have that now. Also these days, too many passionately confused people to be able to maintain a civil and reasoned dicussion within any larger groups. How it is supposed to be?
Dodgy people Certainly would be advocating HARD for as much censorship as they can get!. It is in their best interests.
Look how stupid and backwards censorship works out to be now now. People can be offended by confronting things and want them censored "just because". Also though, I can choose not to care about someone being offended, which I won't care if I find it unreasonable and/or it makes no basic sense.
There is no "choosing" censorship. ... Whom decides, and makes these rules for censorship? ... only the person whom is "right"?? . Nobody crooked I suppose, ever!

I have always been an open thinker and censorship annoyed me.

But with advent of Facebook and You Tube that have allowed any idiot with a camera and keyboard to spew forth wild hair brained thoughts, I would welcome some censorship.

#19213 3 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

allowed any idiot with a camera and keyboard to spew forth wild hair brained thoughts

This perfectly describes how YouTube started and became so successful.

But which parts do we censor? The things you agree with or the the things I agree with? What if we don’t agree on the same thing?

If I see something I don’t agree with I just tune into something different or hear the other argument.

#19214 3 years ago

It comes down to some seemingly lost arts (since evidence gets buried or destroyed) of critical thinking, objective analysis, deductive reasoning.... identifying linking and discrediting information. Cross referencing.

If some of the stuff seems Really stupid on there, unbelievably stupid, could just be some of the vast amounts of kooky bunk information put out there ("leaked" lol) just to swamp or discredit any sprinkles of circumstantial evidence that may be left floating around, to make searching for legit info an actual tedious choar. You have to smell a rat though when certain seemingly benign things suspiciously disappear, or become blocked by search engines. The "wrong" information is definitely kept suppressed, like if an actual whistle blowing was blocked from FB, then went to their own website, if it is damaging information the website will be blocked as well if it takes off, so yes still censored essentially. If it is something you are being fed on some "feed".... well, you are Supposed to be aware of it, hey.

#19215 3 years ago
Quoted from Oaken:

There are well known rules in place for private forums. Well known rules in place for public forums. Rules shift based on where you are talking and there are still arguments about the rules periodically.
General rule of thumb: If you spout a combination of crazy and bigotry, odds are you will need to seek out a receptive forum. Most public facing ones won’t want to touch you with a 10 foot pole and for good reason. Qanon is one part ignorant, two parts bigoted, and 7 parts bat shit crazy. It has no place in civil society and should be ridiculed and shamed out of existence.
Same goes for other hate groups. They deserve no forum and no voice.

Herein is a problem. Everyone so easily offended and incapable of having a discussion or debate with someone whom has developed a differing view. If both can not be true at the same time, the intelligent thing Used to be that it would get worked out.

What if All Three people arguing their differing views, based on circumstantial or unverified evidence, are ALL wrong? . No correct answers there either. We should All be listening, like it or not. Between all 3 there is every chance they could deduct that they are all wrong, by analysing what they "know" together.

Mostly all you got now is echo chambers, full of warped views, and divided. It makes it hard, but it is counterproductive to censor everything.... the baby will get thrown out with the bathwater, you know it. That's all. Harsh realities, sometimes just have to harden up, put up with verbal diarrhea. If it is criminal, it can be prosecuted.... although, there are more and more crazy new laws with every passing "episode". What could be worrisome, Laws may become censorship, or already are. Amazing how almost nobody seems bothered at all. Toads in the pot.

The 3 getting together and working out they are ALL deceived. This would be what the corrupt do Not want. They're doing a Marvelous job of hindering it. Nobody should be surprised. Just take a look around the place ....

"Quanaon" or whatever seems to be more of a tool or instrument, a pile of spawned bunk with a couple of legit pieces in there, gathered a following for doing a job. Looks like the job is getting some new "rules" in, allowing filtering of facetube by <persons/entities> so that anything that isn't fake news can be taken down, now!. Lol

#19216 3 years ago
Quoted from EJS:

This perfectly describes how YouTube started and became so successful.
But which parts do we censor? The things you agree with or the the things I agree with? What if we don’t agree on the same thing?
If I see something I don’t agree with I just tune into something different or hear the other argument.

Pretty simple - If you are endorsing a batshit crazy cult that espouses the theory that all democrats are satanic pedophiles, that should be censored.

I'll take other things on a case-by-case basis.

#19217 3 years ago
Quoted from EJS:

This perfectly describes how YouTube started and became so successful. But which parts do we censor? The things you agree with or the the things I agree with? What if we don’t agree on the same thing?

It's YouTube's site, so "we" don't get to censor anything, they do. And they're going to censor the parts that they don't agree with, or that they view as harmful to the business they're trying to maintain. For instance, they've always banned pornography and they make some efforts to take down videos that violate copyright. And now they've evidently decided that building a reputation as a haven for crazies that think half of the world's leaders are literal (not just figurative) vampires isn't in the long-term interest of their brand.

#19218 3 years ago

Why don't you guys start a different thread for the specious censorship argument?

#19219 3 years ago

Fucking A. If you don't like the filters and censoring on a certain site or platform, move to another. Or build your own. Lord.

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#19220 3 years ago

Well, I think this will be the last time I post in here just because, like stated, there's not a lot of 'rona news in here except disputed and arguable "facts" and that no matter what I say in here, those on the opposite side of my oppinion are not going to be moved to change, so why even bother? I will continue doing what I know science has determined as the best course forward, I will isolate and "hide" from the virus until we have a vaccine, and then only one that has been thouroughly vetted and tested, including the two month delay after trials to see if any longer term affects surface. I am certainly not taking a vaccine from China, Russia, or any other foreign developed and tested drug. When all the leading epidemiologists start taking it, then I will take it. To the "dicknoses" of the world, I hope someday we can look back and point to them as the ones who made this worse than it needed to be, and everyone that didn't wear a mask, didn't socially distance, and just "kept on doing what they wanted" will feel the guilt that they are responsible for a portion of the people who have, or who will eventually be killed by this virus. I don't care how many lives that "so and so" claims to have saved by shutting down travel, or how many lives we would have lost if "such and such" had been in power and not stopped travel, the fact remains... This virus is here, it's killing Americans, and we ALL need to do our part to fight it.

If we were to take this populace of America back to 1942 and let them fight the Second World War, we all would be marching the goosestep and or be bowing to an emporer right now. When will people understand there are times when the needs of the many outweight the needs of the individual, and that individual freedoms and rights are a privilige that, some time in your life, you may have to give up in order to beat the enemy.

Could you image people in the UK who said "Screw these blackouts" and kept on burning their lights... not only would they have found themselves in trouble, they might have ended up finding themselves dead, and not necessarily at the hands of the enemy, however that was probabaly more likely as they would get the first round of bombs dropped on them during a raid. People like to think that our freedoms are sacred and inviolate, but I beg to differ. If the enemy is coming over the ridge, you do not have the right to stand up, and say "Its my right to show the enemy where we are" because you would be arrested for sedition or treason, or both, if you even lived to tell the tale.

There is a reason that the Armed Services are not covered by the Constitution, but by the Articles of the UCMJ or Unified Code of Military Justice. Under the Constitution, individuals have rights that the ordinary soldier does not. This is by design and by Law, because the UCMJ puts in place a hiearchy of the chain of command, and gives the commanding officer the right and responsibility to ask and demand that YOU GIVE YOUR LIFE FOR YOUR COUNTRY. Or as us veterans like to call it, the Ultimate Sacrifice is requested by your country.

We are now faced with an unseen enemy, one that kills indescrimanantly, and without emotion. When asked to wear a mask, to socially distance, and limit the spread of the enemy, people act like you are asking them for the Ultimate Sacrifice, and I have to say, as a Veteran, you people make me sick. I worked, sweated gallons of sweat, run many miles, pushed many a pushup, sacrificed my time, energy, and blood to keep this country great while in the Navy. And all we are asking you to do is be a little inconvienced with a piece of cloth and some string. We are not asking you to face the enemy without a shield, as a matter of fact, the mask sort of is the shield, but we all must wear it for it to work.

If the enemy was lobbing bullets and motars at you, would you stand up, remove your flak jacket or BPV, and run blindly at the enemy? NO. So why do so many want to try this with COVID19?!?

BH

#19221 3 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

Why don't you guys start a different thread for the specious censorship argument?

See, case in point of the stupidity of echo chambers, and going your own way just because things don't add up for someone in their own mind, regarding some real things. Lol

Instead of dividing everyone up... the educated and reasonable objective people should be all coming together, discussing, debating, and sharing (with Everybody)... to the end that Consensus can be found, and some things might make actual sense for once, at least, and be shared broadly. But realistically, there are far too many ignorant and oblivious people these days (whom believe they are not) for that to seem possible. The majority not really using much thought at all, and lazily going their own gullible way. Emotion instead of Reason.

Yeah that will fix everything. Really Smart!

#19222 3 years ago
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#19223 3 years ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

It comes down to some seemingly lost arts (since evidence gets buried or destroyed) of critical thinking, objective analysis, deductive reasoning.... identifying linking and discrediting information. Cross referencing.

You have to much faith in people. Some people believe that the earth is flat, and you want them the have critical thinking skills about something the world has never experienced before. You’re asking a lot from the simpletons.

#19224 3 years ago

An interesting graphic found in a French (serious) Newspaper, Le Monde.
https://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2020/05/05/coronavirus-age-mortalite-departements-pays-suivez-l-evolution-de-l-epidemie-en-cartes-et-graphiques_6038751_4355770.html?utm_source=old_tracker

Daily deaths over time (between February = Fevrier and October = Octobre) in different areas of the globe.
Etats-Unis = USA
Reste de l'Amérique latine = Other Latin American countries (besides Brasil, Mexico)
Reste de l'Europe = Rest of Europe (France is listed in light blue)
Moyen Orient = Middle East

Capture d’écran 2020-10-09 à 14.20.14 (resized).pngCapture d’écran 2020-10-09 à 14.20.14 (resized).png
#19225 3 years ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

See, case in point of the stupidity of echo chambers, and going your own way just because things don't add up for someone in their own mind, regarding some real things. Lol
Instead of dividing everyone up... the educated and reasonable objective people should be all coming together, discussing, debating, and sharing (with Everybody)... to the end that Consensus can be found, and some things might make actual sense for once, at least, and be shared broadly. But realistically, there are far too many ignorant and oblivious people these days (whom believe they are not) for that to seem possible. The majority not really using much thought at all, and lazily going their own gullible way. Emotion instead of Reason.
Yeah that will fix everything. Really Smart!

You present your false conspiracy laden, anti-vax, virus denying message as a high brow thought experiment that can only be undertaken by the most enlightened and open minded among us. Never any facts or sourcing - your only support is a literal buffet of logical fallacies. You favor ad hominem with me at the moment, but strawman, false choice, appeal to authority, and circular argument remain some of your faves.

Stick to your straight anti-vax shtick, it makes more sense when people are trying to determine what the heck you are talking about in your long winded posts. You can have the censorship and echo chamber conversation with yourself, that seems appropriate.

#19226 3 years ago

As of a few days ago they were at 34 people testing positive. And that’s with them not aggressively trying to trace it and also with multiple senators and staff refusing to be tested at all.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/34-people-connected-white-house-previously-infected-coronavirus/story?id=73487381

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#19228 3 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Well, I think this will be the last time I post in here just because, like stated, there's not a lot of 'rona news in here except disputed and arguable "facts" and that no matter what I say in here, those on the opposite side of my oppinion are not going to be moved to change, so why even bother?

Part of the argument against science is the tactic of wearing you down until you give up and go away. I'm sure there is a name for that debating tactic, but I don't know it off the top of my head. The most knowledgeable people are impacted first, because they are not used to people arguing obvious things. It gets to the point where you can't even explain what day it is. Eventually the grip of that argument tightens until the knowledgeable people stop arguing and walk away frustrated. Next the people arguing against science go after folks that are smart, but not experts in the subject with the same tactic. Eventually they also walk away frustrated. This continues until there is nobody knowledgeable left, and the science denier is the only voice left in the room.

So you are correct, you will never ever change the deniers viewpoint. But you should still bother trying and speaking rationally. Because when smart people stop speaking rationally out of frustration, society crumbles. And I realize some people will think that is hyperbole. But we have people passing laws and signing orders against requiring facemasks... during a pandemic... in 2020. I think we have reached the point where saying that society could crumble isn't really that far out there.

#19230 3 years ago
Quoted from Luckydogg420:

You have to much faith in people. Some people believe that the earth is flat, and you want them the have critical thinking skills about something the world has never experienced before. You’re asking a lot from the simpletons.

Yeah in some ways or cases you might be right. Probably futile, I get it. But, if it helps the confusion of just one poor misled person, I think it's worth a little effort. If it just falls on deaf single minded ears, at least I gave it a go for their (our) possible benefit. I have met, and helped out, my share of flat earthers. Their eventual gratefulness is one of the things that makes it worth some effort. It is amazing what understanding, and things adding up, can actually lead to. Seems like a kind of relief for them, a weight off their confused thoughts. Funny, what seems to cut through is not so much the proving roundness, but disproving the flatness. Key is to be respectful, and not act like someone would if they were gaslighting. It is a good feeling across the board when someone comes round. Like they fell off a cliff too sometimes, sudden. Pun intended Lol.

Suddenly they Ask more questions.... like "So, what about this <other claim why earth must be flat>??" ... so answer by immediately shooting that down with the real physical example, so on, so on .... and in between sometimes even answering their own question themselves, as they ask it to me (and themselves) aloud. Beat me to the punch line Lol

Of course not always, not all are going to be capable of being receptive to reason though, or practical science. Depends.

#19231 3 years ago

For me, Whether its Covid, Politics, Religion, Life, Science, those friends and family that can entertain a discussion they disagree
with has been much more of a challenge recently.
If we stay on one topic, share our views, research our differences, try to discuss our views by taking the opposite view we believe, it becomes a learning experience for both.
When its "Im right, you're Wrong", and the facts cant be discussed or agreed on, it is a conversation of futility.

On many things, Its great to change my mind or view, after learning more than I knew before.
For others, learning something new, is of no interest.

Try a roundtable with religious leaders using the original Greek..Sometimes, it works, sometimes minds and ears are closed.
Anthropology, Archeology, Medicine...it doesnt matter.

Some are simply resistant to increasing their knowledge, changing a view, or are hung up on creating "absolutes" from written words....

#19232 3 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

Part of the argument against science is the tactic of wearing you down until you give up and go away. I'm sure there is a name for that debating tactic, but I don't know it off the top of my head. The most knowledgeable people are impacted first, because they are not used to people arguing obvious things. It gets to the point where you can't even explain what day it is. Eventually the grip of that argument tightens until the knowledgeable people stop arguing and walk away frustrated. Next the people arguing against science go after folks that are smart, but not experts in the subject with the same tactic. Eventually they also walk away frustrated. This continues until there is nobody knowledgeable left, and the science denier is the only voice left in the room.
So you are correct, you will never ever change the deniers viewpoint. But you should still bother trying and speaking rationally. Because when smart people stop speaking rationally out of frustration, society crumbles. And I realize some people will think that is hyperbole. But we have people passing laws and signing orders against requiring facemasks... during a pandemic... in 2020. I think we have reached the point where saying that society could crumble isn't really that far out there.

Good post! .... too true.

I'll tend to try and help... but only to a point.

It certainly can be futile these days, for a few reasons. One of them, is the massive amounts of rubbish information so prominent on the medias. It still does not mean censorship is a good idea.

A good idea is helping any flat earthers understand physical reality better if you can, instead of shunning them or putting them in an isolation chamber to fester among themselves. Everyone deserves a go at least.

Every one you help, is another person to help the next that they know... maybe multiples. The motivation, and Clarity, it can spread. Every little bit helps.

#19233 3 years ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

...and, what ever happened with your profile screaminr ?

I'm back
It took quite a few tries , a letter was missing in the email address amongst other things .
I'm not very good with computers and emails and such .
I sent a number of messages to robin and he got me sorted out .
Every time I messaged him , he responded quickly and was very patient and understanding with me .
What a great guy .
With how busy he is , I can't thank him enough for sorting this out for me .
He has made such a great website / community , if you can afford it , i'd recommend donating a few bucks to pinside .

#19234 3 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Well, I think this will be the last time I post in here just because, like stated, there's not a lot of 'rona news in here except disputed and arguable "facts" and that no matter what I say in here, those on the opposite side of my oppinion are not going to be moved to change, so why even bother? I will continue doing what I know science has determined as the best course forward, I will isolate and "hide" from the virus until we have a vaccine, and then only one that has been thouroughly vetted and tested, including the two month delay after trials to see if any longer term affects surface. I am certainly not taking a vaccine from China, Russia, or any other foreign developed and tested drug. When all the leading epidemiologists start taking it, then I will take it. To the "dicknoses" of the world, I hope someday we can look back and point to them as the ones who made this worse than it needed to be, and everyone that didn't wear a mask, didn't socially distance, and just "kept on doing what they wanted" will feel the guilt that they are responsible for a portion of the people who have, or who will eventually be killed by this virus. I don't care how many lives that "so and so" claims to have saved by shutting down travel, or how many lives we would have lost if "such and such" had been in power and not stopped travel, the fact remains... This virus is here, it's killing Americans, and we ALL need to do our part to fight it.
If we were to take this populace of America back to 1942 and let them fight the Second World War, we all would be marching the goosestep and or be bowing to an emporer right now. When will people understand there are times when the needs of the many outweight the needs of the individual, and that individual freedoms and rights are a privilige that, some time in your life, you may have to give up in order to beat the enemy.
Could you image people in the UK who said "Screw these blackouts" and kept on burning their lights... not only would they have found themselves in trouble, they might have ended up finding themselves dead, and not necessarily at the hands of the enemy, however that was probabaly more likely as they would get the first round of bombs dropped on them during a raid. People like to think that our freedoms are sacred and inviolate, but I beg to differ. If the enemy is coming over the ridge, you do not have the right to stand up, and say "Its my right to show the enemy where we are" because you would be arrested for sedition or treason, or both, if you even lived to tell the tale.
There is a reason that the Armed Services are not covered by the Constitution, but by the Articles of the UCMJ or Unified Code of Military Justice. Under the Constitution, individuals have rights that the ordinary soldier does not. This is by design and by Law, because the UCMJ puts in place a hiearchy of the chain of command, and gives the commanding officer the right and responsibility to ask and demand that YOU GIVE YOUR LIFE FOR YOUR COUNTRY. Or as us veterans like to call it, the Ultimate Sacrifice is requested by your country.
We are now faced with an unseen enemy, one that kills indescrimanantly, and without emotion. When asked to wear a mask, to socially distance, and limit the spread of the enemy, people act like you are asking them for the Ultimate Sacrifice, and I have to say, as a Veteran, you people make me sick. I worked, sweated gallons of sweat, run many miles, pushed many a pushup, sacrificed my time, energy, and blood to keep this country great while in the Navy. And all we are asking you to do is be a little inconvienced with a piece of cloth and some string. We are not asking you to face the enemy without a shield, as a matter of fact, the mask sort of is the shield, but we all must wear it for it to work.
If the enemy was lobbing bullets and motars at you, would you stand up, remove your flak jacket or BPV, and run blindly at the enemy? NO. So why do so many want to try this with COVID19?!?
BH

Compelling argument, and you’re not completely wrong. Yeah, I don’t even want to imagine this USA fighting a war. But you’re not completely correct either and that is why some people in here are discussing this with civility. I hope you continue.

A war analogy is tempting, but this virus would be more akin to a German bomber dropping bombs on 100 houses and the people inside know 99 of them would receive no damage or death. They might turn the lights low for a few weeks, but not for months. One similar analogy to WW2- the majority of Americans said, for years, let the Europeans fight their own war and why the conspiracy theory of Pearl Harbor will never be put to rest. Could we have changed the course of WW2 if we entered in 1939? Possibly, but we weren’t prepared. Our air force used biplanes, we used cavalry.. Imagine Dunkirk with hundreds of thousands of ill equipped Americans. We would have left the war and would all be speaking German.

I wear a mask. But I also understand there is a real threat to a significant amount of the worldwide population who know they can’t weather this economic hardship for over a year. If people think it is unsafe outside to the point that they have to wear a mask, they stay home and the economy will suffer. Wearing a mask in a 50% capacity restaurant or theater will not work in areas that can’t keep windows open- economically or to prevent spread- they take their masks off.. I’m staying home, people 18-40 with no at risk individuals in the house, why should they?
Hospitality, tourism, and travel will crater- what happens to those workers and business owners? And those sectors that live off them? Good luck Boeing shareholders!- and that affects everybody with a pension/ retirement plan.. We are setting ourselves up for some wicked inflation in 10 years, anybody close to or will be retired?
Sacrifice works both ways- good of the many or good of the few? Depends on how close one is to the poverty level..

WI hit a new high yesterday! It is bizarre, but our officials have basically given up. Well, we went from 50% restaurant occupancy to 25%.. Yep, that ought to do it! In April, Governor was on tv everyday talking about nothing- we had less then 500 cases. Now, not a peep. Mandating masks gave people illusion it prevented spread, people still had parties and everything else. Close bars or don’t, they still go drink. Some friends of mine came back to WI and took their parents(over 80) to a bar! Everybody told them NO! They all have Covid now.
Scientists have also released another study on neck gaiters- apparently they do work if more then one layer. Ahh...science..

#19235 3 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

Part of the argument against science is the tactic of wearing you down until you give up and go away. I'm sure there is a name for that debating tactic, but I don't know it off the top of my head. The most knowledgeable people are impacted first, because they are not used to people arguing obvious things. It gets to the point where you can't even explain what day it is. Eventually the grip of that argument tightens until the knowledgeable people stop arguing and walk away frustrated. Next the people arguing against science go after folks that are smart, but not experts in the subject with the same tactic. Eventually they also walk away frustrated. This continues until there is nobody knowledgeable left, and the science denier is the only voice left in the room.
So you are correct, you will never ever change the deniers viewpoint. But you should still bother trying and speaking rationally. Because when smart people stop speaking rationally out of frustration, society crumbles. And I realize some people will think that is hyperbole. But we have people passing laws and signing orders against requiring facemasks... during a pandemic... in 2020. I think we have reached the point where saying that society could crumble isn't really that far out there.

More thumbs up. I don't know what the tactic is called either but it seems to start with 'flood the field' with anything - I mean anything - argue every point as hard as you can no matter how flimsy your position and then claim victory using an assortment of fallacies depending upon the audience and situation.

The most popular seems to be "My ignorance is equal to your expertise", therefore the truth is in the (now) muddled middle. A false equivalency. It is the argument frequently used to demand the same attention be paid to Dr. Fauci (lifelong infectious disease expert, worked under 6 or 7 presidents, etc) that you would pay Dr. Atlas (retired radiologist and Fox News contributor) as an example. Both ideas/people are out there, so they deserve equal weight. It devolves into claims of unfair censorship and personal attacks when the argument completely breaks down.

#19236 3 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

Part of the argument against science is the tactic of wearing you down until you give up and go away.

This is a valid point, no argument here.

#19237 3 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

Part of the argument against science is the tactic of wearing you down until you give up and go away. I'm sure there is a name for that debating tactic,

"The Official Coronavirus Containment Thread" ???

#19238 3 years ago

Another interesting datapoint in the suspect Rose Garden Super Spreader event...there is apparently a small outbreak developing at the small private high school that two of Judge Barrett’s kids attend.

Supposedly Barrett has covid earlier this summer, but nothing that I have seen mentioned her kiddos having it back then. As a parent, anything my kids get I get. In the reverse, it takes a crazy amount of effort to prevent them from getting what I get.

Kids were definitely at the Rose Garden confab. Kids were definitely maskless.

If only we had a professional contact tracing team looking into this instead of interwebs sleuths, we could maybe chicken or egg this situation.

#19239 3 years ago

I would swear there is some kind of Orwellian fear that makes people want to block or prevent contract tracing because it might “identify and name” people and, being as litigious a society as we have become, fear they might be held liable if they are determined to be a “spreader”, including determining that a single person’s actions actually lead to someone’s death.

Maybe if we passed a law making contact tracing information ineligible for use as evidence in a civil or criminal trial, maybe people would not fear it and it could again be used as a tool to stop the spread. Just thinking out loud here...

11
#19240 3 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

More thumbs up. I don't know what the tactic is called either but it seems to start with 'flood the field' with anything - I mean anything - argue every point as hard as you can no matter how flimsy your position and then claim victory using an assortment of fallacies depending upon the audience and situation.

The "flood the field" argument is known as a Gish Gallop. The premise is that it is easier to knock everything off a table than it is to set it up. The main point of it is to never let someone else set the table back up fully. When they get close to finishing an explanation, turn to the next table and knock everything off that one. The segue statement is "Yeah, but what about..." and they move on without allowing you to finish the first explanation. We've all experienced this with others. They say something crazy, and you spend all the time explaining why it is crazy, and rather than accept it, they move on to something else. It is built up just to frustrate the other person, as opposed to actually trying to gain knowledge. Once you understand that, it makes the discussion more clear.

#19241 3 years ago
Quoted from Oaken:

Another interesting datapoint in the suspect Rose Garden Super Spreader event...there is apparently a small outbreak developing at the small private high school that two of Judge Barrett’s kids attend.
Supposedly Barrett has covid earlier this summer, but nothing that I have seen mentioned her kiddos having it back then. As a parent, anything my kids get I get. In the reverse, it takes a crazy amount of effort to prevent them from getting what I get.
Kids were definitely at the Rose Garden confab. Kids were definitely maskless.
If only we had a professional contact tracing team looking into this instead of interwebs sleuths, we could maybe chicken or egg this situation.

Senator Thom Tillis face to face with Coney Barrett’s son:
70072F45-32D2-4613-B30A-C682D8B364C6 (resized).jpeg70072F45-32D2-4613-B30A-C682D8B364C6 (resized).jpeg

#19242 3 years ago

So what, the kids carry the virus to Mom, who remains asymtomatic because she's already had the illness, who then transmits to POTUS? I can get onboard with that theory.

-2
#19243 3 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

You present your false conspiracy laden, anti-vax, virus denying message as a high brow thought experiment that can only be undertaken by the most enlightened and open minded among us. Never any facts or sourcing - your only support is a literal buffet of logical fallacies. You favor ad hominem with me at the moment, but strawman, false choice, appeal to authority, and circular argument remain some of your faves.
Stick to your straight anti-vax shtick, it makes more sense when people are trying to determine what the heck you are talking about in your long winded posts. You can have the censorship and echo chamber conversation with yourself, that seems appropriate.

Displaying again lack of comprehension in reading (peoples posts), and publishing your own twisted assumption about what they stand for. You are putting words into peoples mouths, and suggesting I said things that I never did. I'll thank you to stop making things up about me.

#19244 3 years ago

Wow, you leave this post and come back to...what exactly?!! Lol

Anyway, regardless of politics, dems, republicans, no news, great news, fake news, science or no science, masks or no masks, the pandemic is a nasty virus that you don't want to catch (I'm guessing!) nor transmit to others (I'm hoping!)

Best way to help get rid of this is to stay safe and isolate the best you can. If you can't, then take precautions when needed, such as wearing a mask. Mostly, wash hands often. Repeat.

#19245 3 years ago
Quoted from gambit3113:

Fucking A. If you don't like the filters and censoring on a certain site or platform, move to another. Or build your own. Lord.

So you'll be happy when you have an "echo chamber"?

16
#19246 3 years ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Displaying again lack of comprehension in reading (peoples posts), and publishing your own twisted assumption about what they stand for. You are putting words into peoples mouths, and suggesting I said things that I never did. I'll thank you to stop making things up about me.

I'm pretty sure nobody can comprehend your posts unfortunately. I wouldn't blame him for trying to make sense of what you write and not being able to...

#19247 3 years ago
Quoted from frisbez:

I'm pretty sure nobody can comprehend your posts unfortunately. I wouldn't blame him for trying to make sense of what you write and not being able to...

Some certainly do. Once again, you can't speak directly of politics in the forum... do some of your own broader investigation.

It is fair, really, that many don't understand. But being blunt doesn't help either . It wouldn't be published anyway.

People have to think for themselves.

#19248 3 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

Medical Community, Science, Epidemiologists, CDC, Fauci, Friends & Family: How about to prevent contracting or spreading Covid-19?
Large segment of the population (for some reason): Naw, not what I'm looking for.

Well we have the smart guy here. How about you treat them as human beings? We do the wrong things that makes us human. You want to make difference? How about asking how is day going? Instead of why are you not wearing your mask asshole! Damn data sheets flying see this! I got you now! (Back at the homestead). Damn cootier..I was just trying to get some vettlis! What happened? Some feller showed in crow costume and started saying it’s real! Did you talk to him? Naw he just started saying wear your mask! Well that doesn't sound to polite. Well the next time you see that feller hanging around. I might shoot him in the ass!

#19249 3 years ago

Perhaps another reason we are where we are:

White House Blocked C.D.C. From Requiring Masks on Public Transportation

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/09/health/coronavirus-covid-masks-cdc.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

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