Meanwhile, the 65 person, indoor, mask-free Maine wedding has now been linked to at least 270 Covid cases and 8 deaths. None of the 8 dead attended.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Big-Papi-had-COVID-Maine-paper-mill-cases-grow-15580605.php

Data indeed... notice the deaths, or lack of them, more interestingly...

coronavirus-data-explorer(2).png

coronavirus-data-explorer.png

daily-tests-per-thousand-people-smoothed-7-day.png

Ok so just to get it straight it’s almost October and we are still arguing about masks.

For some, the primary purpose is fashion.

fashion mask (resized).jpg

Coronavirus highest infection rates per capita up to today (probably no surprises here) :
1. Louisiana
2. Florida
3. Mississippi
4. Alabama
5. Arizona
6. Georgia
7. Tennessee
8. South Carolina
9. Iowa
10. Arkansas
11. Texas
12. New York

Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Just keep in mind that there are a number of unique circumstances in Sweden which means it might be misleading to apply their situation to other countries. These include:
Swedes are generally less sociable than most societies
Sweden has a high proportion of single-person households (over 50%)
Sweden has a relatively low population density for Europe
There is a high level of trust in government in Sweden (13th in OECD)
Swedes are very good at following directions and although the government didn't mandate strict measures, they were asked to work from home and socially distance themselves and most people did it.
They have a very good health care system (ranked 24th in the world)

So what is the magic number of deaths that we need to get down to per year before they stop making masks mandatory and leave it up to personal choice?

Oh no, I understand that, but "I feel" as though "my" chances of becoming ill are increased due to my hands now being around my face. Constant adjustments is the culprit. Not being selfish, just pointing out an issue. I don't want to be a statistic either.

It is an interesting study, that's for certain. Wouldn't surprise me a bit to find there is nothing we can do to prevent Cv19, and you are either genetically predisposed or not. Sweden takes a big risk, yet, there they are, carrying on.

ion.i heard they aren't sanitized in between people!

For the record, I'm not arguing the mask here, just pointing out my personal situation. Let's call it an observation.

Some people learn the hard way

Masks are part of our lives now. I doubt they will ever completely go away.

This pandemic isn't a one time thing. These kind of events are going to continue accelerating.

I am gonna go with tootsie roll pop rules...

Seriously though, I suspect it will take a vaccine or it’s gonna be like seat belts and no shoes, no shirt, no service.

On the mask wearing concept, I think a Supreme branded mask would go over very well with their typical non mask wearing demographic?
It would be what, $100.?

No. Bring it to the thread. If a link has helped you form your thoughts and opinions, bring the link to the thread and let it stand or fall on its own merits.

I wondered this myself. How can anybody downvote Oaken's post about wearing a mask ?

The choice is yours everyday.
Ask yourself, do I feel like protecting myself today and others?
Or, are you over it and ready to throw caution to the wind?
Everyone remember, this isn't over yet and we will be having this same conversation next spring to.
After all, its a PANDEMIC!

Zero. Until then, fuck your choice.

Reminds me of the famous quote:

“Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask how many people have to die before I can go to wal mart without a mask hanging off my chin or partially dangling off an ear. Or maybe covering my mouth but my schnoz is hanging out. These extremely mild concessions to a disastrous pandemic that has killed hundreds of thousands of my fellow Americans are really getting on my nerves! Wait, Where was I?”

Those words ring as true today as they did when jFK uttered them back in 1961.

Reminder:

You get a free COVID-19 Antibody test every time you donate blood (you can donate once every 8 weeks). They have to test your blood anyways and if you are feeling guilty and want to know if you have the antibodies you can get tested for free and guilt free while helping someone out.

Test (resized).png

"We may be in for a very apocalyptic fall, I'm sorry to say," said Dr. Peter Hotez, dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine.

Today’s snapshot from covidexitstrategy.org

(Red colors are bad)

E4B64ADA-02AC-4D70-B110-D95F32CCA324.jpeg

Somebody who was lying on Dr. Fauci got caught and now he is going to "retire".

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/21/media/fauci-redstate-nih/index.html

" A public affairs official at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases will "retire" after a news report identified him as the anonymous author of blog posts on a conservative website that disparaged Dr. Anthony Fauci and mocked the use of masks, a spokesperson for the health agency said Monday. "

Hmmm, go to a wedding where thare are no masks and you won't die....sounds right to me

Such an emotional response with no logic involved. I bet you apply that emotion every time you get in a car and risk being one of the 40,000 killed every year.

What, you mean when he chooses to buckle his seatbelt?
Or when he chooses to follow the speed limit?
Or maybe when he chooses to not drink and drive?

So many choices.

Let me rephrase your question and see if you can answer it. How many deaths are you willing to be directly responsible for in order to avoid the inconvenience of wearing a mask in public for a few more months?

I’ve posted 85 times in this thread over the past months. Many times at length and with patience. Go read through them if you give a damn, because frankly I no longer have the slightest of patience for ignorant bullshit such as what you are peddling. Otherwise, see the good doctor’s response above.

Y’all need to relax a bit.

I willingly wear a mask in public but just asking a logical question and get roasted for it. There has to be a number that is logically thought out before the mandatory aspect of it is lifted. I don't know where your getting this few more months figure and lay off the "directly responsible" unprovable diatribe.

I asked a logical question that the majority of people in this country want an answer to. You're triggered for some reason, I'm not here to waive the anti-mask flag so just chill.

We all need to just chill a tad and be more careful and more courteous to each other.

In my own small way I try to help when I have to go to a store or the post office.

Anyone anywhere close to me I am the door man.

I have already had to touch the door anyway to open it, and I will stand sometimes for as long as 10 minutes holding that door so no one else has to touch it.

Try that sometime. So many strangers will say Thank You it just makes you feel so much better.

And maybe tiny things I do like that will also help other people to chill a tad and also think about how they can also give someone a brief smile in these crazy times.

My Niece is in NH. School is business as usual. In fact all relatives there are basically living normal pre-Covid lives. They seem much happier than my family/friends in MA. Our Daughter started school yesterday. She’s 5 and wore a mask all day. Everyone at the school was great and my Daughter was so happy. No argument on masks for the most part - everyone wears one. Ironically a good friend in his late 50’s who had a massive heart attack and is considered high risk - tested positive for antibodies. He had zero symptoms. My office is still closed and will be into next year. It’s very depressing working there with an average of 3 people daily vs. close to 30 this time last year. It’s starting to get cold in MA. We are eager to see what cold season is like. I’m ok wearing a mask, but this whole process is wearing on me. Ironically MA’s jobs numbers are bad, but the vast majority of people that I speak with are having great business years and their employees are still employed. What is everyone hearing in the rest of the country?

Connecticut is moving back into the yellow, and while there are proportionally less anti-maskers around here, the problem I’m seeing is that everyone has been extending their “bubbles” too fast. The recent protests about high school football and indoor dining in restaurants are a great example of how little things seem like they shouldn’t be an issue, but when everyone relaxes, there’s just too much contact going on.

And to restate my opinion, I’m not against reopening things, but we STILL don’t have easily accessible rapid testing, comprehensive contact tracing, or our PPE supply chain fully reestablished. If we could knock out those three things, all of which are entirely achievable, we could reopen but be vigilant about shutting down outbreaks quickly and effectively. But instead of focusing on the obvious solution, a third of the population won’t even accept that there’s a problem to fix, and another third think that it’s been long enough that they should be fine dropping the protocols. It’s very hard to bring something under control when two thirds of the community are actively doing things that make things worse.

24AB89B3-5CB4-41B2-A134-FA11CE6A1ECD (resized).jpeg

Come on, let’s all just admit that the only reason we are all still hanging out in here is for the outrage.

This is an emotional and subjective assesment.

Ignoring certain data, and questions. People running on blind faith and super-hyped fear.

Death, that is life. It has been happening forever. Suddenly people think death must always be subverted at any cost. Next there'll be people advocating for imortality!

Zero death? .... think for two seconds about the actual insanity of that? lol

"Zero" from "covid", you are going for "elimination" and that is simply a rediculous pipedream. With what we are seeing though, it is clearly becoming much less deadly as we go on. More reported and recorded cases of natural resistance (demonstrated asymptomatic reinfection), and treatments are also more effective than at the start.

Good question is, does tightly Restricting it's Spread make it increase in lethality down the track, for those whom have never yet been exposed? . Can't say yeah, can't say nahh. Hopefully it is not "yea", hey.

I could of course swear back at you, and your ...***... post, as well. But I won't, I'd rather not be so angry, or one-eyed.

If wearing a mask was only about protecting yourself, then personal choice is fine. Do whatever, it’s your life. When it’s about protecting others then all the personal choice arguments become irrelevant.

Doing whatever you want with no thought or care for others isn’t freedom, it’s anarchy.

For those who would argue masks do nothing to protect others, read the post earlier in the thread about the peeing with no pants analogy. If that little bit of basic common sense and logic doesn’t convince you, then I agree with Gambit about what you can do with your choice.

Our numbers are a bit up and down , 24 today , 11 yesterday .
Personally I'd rather be in lockdown a bit longer to stamp this out , than to be like England where they're back up to over 4000 cases a day .
Wuhan where this all started was in lockdown for 6 weeks , we're up to 7 weeks .
They had a lot harsher Lockdown than us but it does show you , if you're prepared to do it , you can minimise this virus .

The UK introduced new restrictions today. The work from home one is a U-turn after corporates and commercial property landlords lobbied government to get people back into offices. A shame the scientists aren't in charge, and that politicians are such corporate whores.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54250696

Under the new measures for England:

Penalties for not wearing a mask or gathering in groups of more than six will increase to £200 on the first offence
From Thursday, all pubs, bars and restaurants will be restricted to table service only. Takeaways can continue
Hospitality venues must close at 22:00 from Thursday - which means shutting then, not calling for last orders (in Scotland the same curfew rule comes into force on Friday)
Office workers are being told to work from home if possible
The planned return of spectators to sports venues will now not go ahead from 1 October
Face coverings must be worn by shop staff, taxi drivers and passengers
Customers in indoor hospitality venues will also have to wear masks, except when seated at a table to eat or drink
Exemptions to the "rule of six" will be cut back, meaning indoor team sports such as five-a-side football matches will end.

Here is what happens when you are outside of the US and do not have to adhere to a Constitution like the one we live under. No 1st amendment Free Speech, Free Press.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/22/asia/china-ren-zhiqiang-xi-jinping-intl-hnk/index.html

"Without a media representing the interests of the people by publishing the actual facts, the people's lives are being ravaged by both the virus and the major illness of the system," Ren allegedly wrote."

" Soon after the essay was published online, Ren disappeared,..."

Excess deaths for one state (Michigan) as an example:

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/09/michigan-pandemic-death-toll-is-thousands-higher-than-official-counts.html

9000ish deaths over average. Official covid related deaths at 6500-7000.

manadams i hear you. I think we are all tired of the masks. I also think there is no end in sight short term (1-2 yrs min).

Talk about rebuilding a neighborhood is premature when the wildfire is still burning it down.

More and more it's looking like all the hand sanitizing and surface cleaning won't really matter, only wearing a mask will prevent the spread of Covid-19:
https://elemental.medium.com/the-most-likely-way-youll-get-infected-with-covid-19-30430384e5a5

I live with my girlfriend who has cystic fibrosis, so we've been taking extra cautions all along with extra cleaning of hands, surfaces, quarantining our shopping for 3 days. We recently dropped the quarantining of food and have started to get take out or eat out if the seating is outside again. The transmission rate in Seattle has dropped tremendously with mandatory mask wearing, we are down to 20-40 new cases a day in the entire city. It seems pretty clear that our way out of this is wearing masks and not spending time inside spaces with people not wearing masks. Which honestly is a lot easier than constant surface and hand sanitizing.

Good question. I'm not sure if there is guidance out there yet. What are other countries like Canada doing that has their death rate near or at 0. It may have to be 0 for a consistent amount of time before before its left to the public.

And I answered your question. Zero. Zero unnecessary deaths is the number.

______ days since the needless erasure of someone else's mother/father/child/loved one's existence off the face of the planet forever, just because I am a selfish, narcissistic, callous and heinous piece of monkey shit.

There. The higher the number we achieve, the better. We start at 1. God help us.

I know there is a push for everyone to get their flu vaccine this year (again). I was wondering though, wouldn't it seem logical with all the masks, distancing, and hyper-cleaning, that this truly should not be a large flu season? I'm not getting into get/don't get the shot but the ads are up and made me think.

So, reasonably (at least I'm thinking at this point) it should be a very low flu infection rate this year. Maybe common cold too?

Breaking news! Trick or Treating Door to door not recommended!

Shocking I know.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/holidays.html#halloween