Depends on who approved it. Our FDA? Fuck no.

Even if Prez. told you it was safe to take?

I am not sure. I'd have to review the data and the initial rollout to see if it's something I'm willing to do. I'm skeptical right now because of the rush to get a vaccine out for this. Companies have been trying for a while to find a vaccine for this type of virus and haven't yet. On the flip side, companies are throwing MASSIVE amounts of dollars at this to try to be the first with a vaccine, so the latest and greatest tech is being utilized.

Hopefully when vaccines do start coming out, we can all talk about them and have a conversation about the pros/cons of each, and potential gotchas. You know, look out for each other.

Why do you need a vaccine if Hydroxychloroquine is the cure?

1 Year after he takes it.....

Whoaa! “In-person”? The doc joined the Dark Side!?!! Is this allowed? Everybody gave this a pass or most pinsiders are banned? So bars, restaurants, arcades should follow?

That must have been some debate. Who won? I get it, kid has a chance at the Ivy Leagues and caution went out the window. People were arguing this back in March and where shunned. Virtual school was/is a joke, they even dumbed down the AP tests. My kid got college credits for filling in his name- can’t wait til they’re managing our social security. We are making a nice surprise for them though, good luck paying off $30trillion!! He missed out on scholarships, prom, graduation.. for everybody to start up school again six months later with 10x the new daily cases then when we shutdown? So, for nothing.. My area is staying virtual- suburbanites can afford tutors I guess.

Then my kid got covid anyway! Parents of the year! The wife let him go to grad parties, I said no -right as usual. What teenager listens to adults anyway?

If we open schools, have to go for herd immunity. Let the kids take their masks off and have activities. They will do it anyway. It sucks for teachers but same for fast food employees, meat processors, farm laborers, at-risk-parents.. Cases will escalate, hundreds of thousands will die but what is alternative? Anybody saying test and trace needs to show math and plan to shutdown all air/highway travel. Vaccines? Good luck waiting for the 2billionth dose available.. Also will need several boosters.

I thought the My Pillow guy had an herbal supplement cure.

Or convalescent plasma.

Or silver solution.

Or those bleach tablets.

Or herd immunity.

So many cures, so little time.

Really, nothing;Now. It is too late. Nothing has worked so far. Money is the beast that has to be fed. I feel like we are slowly adopting a war time, devil may care attitude : I could catch this shit tomorrow and die a horrible death, so I might as well party today.

False dilemmas are so emotional and exciting!! And very persuasive! Shut it all down, damn the economy!!! vs We're all gonna get this virus anyway - many of us will die, it's unavoidable!!! CHOOSE ONE NOW!! No one goes to school!! vs Everyone goes to school!!

We had very low amounts of information and zero practical testing capability against an unknown virus in March. Hell, we didn't even have toilet paper.

We have loads more info now, better treatments, and are on the cusp of very practical testing and maybe getting close to a vaccine. Some communities have very low infection rates and are choosing to carefully open up some things, including school. Some aren't. Some have plans that include both. That is the way it is supposed to work.

There is a lot of middle ground. Plenty of choices and room to maneuver between the extremes. Hundreds of choices between all and nothing.

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1. The only people I see as being "on the dark side" are those who either deny the seriousness of COVID-19, say it is a hoax or post blatant misinformation which could harm others.

2. Yes, I decided to send my kids back to in person school. Since you asked, let me elaborate the steps I took before making that decision:
--I track the local county COVID dashboard daily. I have been following the trends of the overall case rate, the percentage of patients in the hospitals who are there for COVID and the case positivity rate.
--I reviewed the latest COVID projection data from our local medical school/university which projected COVID activity through mid-September.
--I attempted to extrapolate the county COVID curves to estimate what the disease activity would be around the time of school starting.
--I attended and spoke at the school board meeting and advised them that their proposed opening date of August 19th was too early and they should push the date back at least a week if not two. They did decide to push the opening back one week after that board meeting.
--I participated in a physician advisory panel for the superintendent and reviewed the ISD's proposed prevention and mitigation measures. I provided my input along with several other physicians and important changes were made.
--Based on the above measures my wife and I decided that there was a decent chance that our county would be meeting or close to meeting the county health department's guidelines for safer opening of schools. We also took into consideration that we have two kids in high school that want to keep their class rank and we felt that remote learning might handicap them. We decided that unless the COVID activity was above acceptable levels we didn't want to handicap them unnecessarily.
--In case you're wondering, our schools mandate masking at all times, have plexiglass dividers between desks if the desks can't be 6 feet apart, limit entry to the school to students and staff only, have an online monitoring form that parents must fill out every morning (including temperature check), hallways are one way only to limit student mixing during passing periods, etc.
--My wife and I track the local ISD COVID dashboard every morning and have told our kids we reserve the right to pull them into remote learning should the numbers start going the wrong way.

3. I think I've been pretty consistent in saying that the answer lies somewhere in the middle. I think that opening schools in areas where it is reasonable safe to do so makes a lot of sense. There are a lot of negative effects on kids from keeping schools closed. If a school can open without undue danger to the kids and the community, I think it should. That does NOT equate to opening bars, concerts, sporting events, etc. Those are not activities that carry the same importance to me as a kids education.

As was posted above, you're throwing out a false dichotomy that I'm not going to bite on or accept. There is a way to make smart choices and open some important services up without throwing caution to the wind and letting COVID run its course. Case in point, I've been seeing patients every day since this all began and I have yet to become infected (knock on wood) despite seeing multiple positive cases in person. That's because we practice good mitigation measures like masking, wearing gowns, wearing eye protection and gloves whenever we see a possible COVID patient. The rooms are also sanitized and not used for at least an hour after a possible COVID patient is seen.

I know it's easier to take a black or white view of things and it probably makes for better internet forum fodder but the reality of informed decision making isn't so exciting.

Today? No.

Tomorrow....later on quite possibly.

But if waiting to see what the effects are, when do you take it? Later in the year? Next year? Ten years. How do we know when enough time has passed.

There’s no doubt one vaccine will be announced it’s ready prior to 11/3/2020. The FDA is under a lot of pressure from the White House. However, nothing will be available for wide distribution until at least 2/3 quarter of 2021 possibly later. By then more information will be available on which one is more effective and if there’s side effects. I’ll get one along with my flu vaccine.

Here is basically the entire story for this thread. Embrace capitalism, now lie in it....

I would have done the same thing (but my kids are now 23 and 26...) if only for the reason below:

Indeed. Home schooling also makes social inequalities far worse. Clearly not optimal to study at home in a small noisy apartment with noisy little sisters or brothers. Some families cannot afford one computer per child, etc. Not to mention the parents who desperately need to work and will only have sub-optimal solutions to take care of the kids during school hours.

Every precaution should be taken to mitigate risk, but I'd only close schools again as a last resort.

Thank You for all your input!

Very nice to have a doctor here during these times.

All I can offer is maybe a smile, so here I try:

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My Daughter is starting kindergarten. I believe she will be at the school around 10 days per month and at home the remainder of the time via remote learning. The is the hybrid option. The other option was full remote learning. She has to wear a mask all day while at school. We will be driving her - no bus. There are only 3-4 active cases in my town. Class size is around 225. I feel safe and I am happy that she will be able to see other kids. I’m still nervous, but you need to live you life! We pulled my Son out of daycare and have a Nanny watching him. No masks were required at daycare and with cold season on the way, I didn’t want to risk it. The vaccine on the other hand - I am on the fence. The good news is that even when it comes out - it will take at least six months to reach me. That will give me time to see what the side effects are on others. Our state has mandated vaccines for children going to school. Not sure if they will mandate a Covid vaccine and not sure if I want my kids taking it. My kids have all of their vaccinations, but a rushed one is concerning.

Thanks for the breakdown, I was actually curious in your process. I define the “dark side” as anyone who doesn’t go along with a 2 week martial law shutdown with continual track and trace for any reopening- isn’t that what we did wrong?
Several healthcare professionals I know agree with you, and they offered little analysis. They also don’t understand that if their kid tests positive, their hospital will keep them from practicing for at least a week. Also have to inform all patients you saw since child became ill, not when tested positive. Rescheduling is fun, right?

Black or white, internet fodder? Easy? Fake dichotomy? Ok.. Maybe I seemed a “dark side” hero? Haha. More of a Lando..
Did you equate a hospital setting with a high school? You didn’t use that at the board meeting, right? Our high school is 1200 kids, probably 500 were vaping last year and that was plain illegal. Yeah, they’ll social distance.

Good luck - no seriously- on your assumption you will see the first wave of new infections coming. Real data - after months of grad parties with no cases- one kid ,who didn’t feel great but didn’t get a test, went to three mostly outdoor parties and infected 30 people. One kid- one night. Small suburb of 25k, with less then 300 cases in entire 60k county to date by July. Why didn’t he stay home? teenager, no reason needed. That kid made 30 families quarantine for over a week. But we all accepted the fact this could happen- we are all to blame. I am at risk, my mom is at risk- why did we allow it? Why did we put his stupid parties ahead of our years of life? I guess math.. calculated risk and/or stupidity. That’s probably why they closed down our district.

Reminds me of Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park. Those damn mathematicians messing up good money and good scientific work. Make a perfect environment for all to feel completely safe, until.. human nature.
Small school in nearby district has 3 cases and 85 in quarantine- after two days. They did something wrong? Are people accepting that their kid may get coronavirus or are they expecting complete control?

Another question would be: do you want to stop doing everything fun (and also meaningful) to have more years of life ? Quantity over quality ?

Edit: not that I mean we should do everything, but just as pinball_gizzard says: use your common sense ! We as a family seek the middle ground. We do not put ourselves at risk for a vacation to a risky area, but we also do not stay at home for everything.

I drive by a large daycare in an affluent area. Noticed one day a few weeks ago as the kids were playing outside in the playground, no masks on them or staff, large group of kids. Drive by one day last week, both front doors propped open, all the kids chairs in the parking lot, no kids in sight or cars in lot, appeared closed for decontamination. Oops..

Tough choices and, while I disagree, I respect PantherCityPins decision.

Every school district and family will have its own unique situation. The problem is expecting the districts to manage the problem without additional support. Many districts will be looking at increased costs and decreased funding...when many were already hanging on by a shoe string. This has led to an inconsistent chaotic mess at the macro scale that I suspect will only get worse.

For my own unique situation my decision to keep my kiddo home was influenced by:

1) I have a toddler and a baby at home. Especially concerned about baby getting it.

2) I am high risk.

3) my wife would have to quarantine/miss work.

4) if we quarantine, there is an issue of who will take care of my elderly inlaws.

5) my oldest is 1st grade and I don’t trust the classmates to maintain safety protocols.

6) cases in the county have slowly but surely been creeping up in the county. We started the summer in the “green” zone for school reopening (no restrictions) but are now on the other edge of “yellow” (full hybrid or full stay at home, your choice).

While I greatly fear my oldest’s social skills, physical skills (swimming gym etc) will suffer long term effects, I am confident that I can teach her math, science, reading, etc...

Was an obvious choice for us to keep kids home. Doesn’t mean it was an easy choice.

These are valid points. I worked from home even before the pandemic, but my wife is now teaching second grade from home, and my 16 year old twins are now both learning from home as well. I feel very blessed that we are in a situation where we all have devices and have enough space to spread out. I fully realize that this is not the case for many families.

A small point, I think we have not mentioned.....Wait for the Bill to come on all these additional Medical Costs.
If we dont see them yet in Taxes, we sure will, when it comes to Health Insurance renewals!
(Not to mention the doubling of our National Debt)

Of course, currently, 'someone' will be "blamed", and "shamed"

My 17 year old goes back to school today. We had the choice to do remote learning instead, but he has been working all summer at a grocery store so has already been risking exposure.

Cases in our area are pretty low and our health officials support schools reopening. I feel we (me and my family, everyone else has to make their own calls) have to find ways to function somewhat normally with Covid being around. No one know when/if a vaccine will eliminate this disease and having a bomb shelter mentality for the foreseeable future isn’t the answer for me.

I have no doubt in my mind that The President will announce a viable vaccine is ready prior to the election. No doubt what so ever. If I had to guess on WHEN he will announce it, I would say a week to 10 days out from the election.

Yeah, we are in fairly different situations. My wife and I are both in healthcare and neither of us are considered high risk. Our kids are older and we have drilled the importance of masking, social distancing and regular use of hand sanitizer into them.

My wife and I were probably 80% going to go remote until the COVID numbers started to fall here in D/FW. Our county has extended mandatory masking in public until the end of November so hopefully we can keep the numbers in check around here.

None of these decisions are easy. You get the best information you can and you make the best decision for your family.

You got that right, very common in the world.

My sister-in-law is a bible thumper's bible thumper. A real religious nazi. I sent her an email telling her about Falwell Jr. resigning his position at his dad's college. And all she did is make excuses for his behavior. I couldn't believe it. Just one excuse after another. No moral compass, at all.

It’s so refreshing to come across people that are reasonable. Can’t ignore the virus, but you can’t completely stop life. We are likely going to be doing a screwed up dance with this disease for a generation or so, and have to find ways to continue living.

Herman Cain tweets "Virus not that deadly" from beyond the grave, after dying due to deadly virus. Hey don't shoot the messenger!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/08/31/herman-cain-tweets-coronavirus-not-that-deadly-despite-having-died-from-it/?fbclid=IwAR1s6y3SWVFSnr4rKXWgnO98NEWj5m_7ypsW7V0VV4i5Cg08hHZnKyTRwfw#5cee1d063c77

Just imagine how good things would be if we followed Canada!

Grifters gonna grift, even from the grave.

I can hear it now via re-tweet, "a lot of people are saying..."

DELETE

I remember someone saying they have a coworker who doesn’t do anything than work or be at home and doesn’t travel at all for fear of risk of a lot of things.

I think if we all know how many close calls we’ve all had in life probably nobody would want to leave their house again.

I drive a lot for work and always see “fresh” accidents and think if I left a little earlier that could have been me. I’m just thankful every day is isn’t me.

Bull hockey? Canadians may take offense to this .

No offense to Canadians—they’ve clearly done what needs to be done—. Apparently except for the situation in Quebec, if one is to believe the incredible rude comments above on the situation in Quebec.

The reality, though, is that you can’t even begin to compare them to the US. Whats the population there now? Maybe slightly greater than NY state? Spread out over the largest country in the world. Lots of built in breakers. More easily managed. Less international travel. The list of differences is endless. These comparisons are pointless.

Will you accept “malarkey”? Us Americans are going to be hearing a lot of that word the next two months, anyway.

How about just calling it horse shit? Because that’s what it is.

This might be hard to read but shows the percentage of respondents who agree that they would get the vaccine if it was available, by country.

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I'm sorry. No offense was intended.

The preferred term in Canada is “Beaver Hockey.”

Pregnant woman arrested for involvment in organising a lockdown protest...

https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-victoria-melbourne-lockdown-protest-ballarat-woman-arrested-charged-rally-event-crime-news-covid19/157719fe-3662-4478-b1ad-5fe88b354ebc?ref=BP_RSS_ninenews_2_anti-lockdown-protester-charged-over-alleged--freedom-day--rally_020920