This topic is closed.
Quoted from hAbO:Retailers are having to be bouncers now
You'd think any area trying to enforce a mask requirement would have some sort of police presence at the larger retailers. I guess that guy is lucky the Walmart employee didn't stand his ground with a weapon.
Quoted from screaminr:NY sounds like a fun place .[quoted image]
No not really. NY has terrible leadership and its destroying the place.
https://nypost.com/2020/06/15/murder-is-rising-but-new-york-doesnt-seem-to-care/
Quoted from cottonm4:The article says, “ he believes” and “it appears”. The link you offer says “may disappear on its own”.
You misquoted it. It does sound like something positive but it nothing to lighting a cigar about.
Whether the article is correct or not , at least Who-Day is trying to find something positive about this shit show .
Quoted from mcluvin:Florida Man forces his way into Walmart without a mask
Quoted from hAbO:Retailers are having to be bouncers now
It is rather sad. People with a holier than thou attitude. This old fart needs an attitude adjustment.
You need to look more closely at the data. Although the number of cases is up 32%, the number of deaths is down 31%. This is most likely the result of increased testing finding more people who have had the disease but were asymptomatic.
This is a novel virus, and the only way for it to disappear is through immunizations or herd immunity. We don't have a vaccine and you only develop herd immunity after enough people get the virus and survive.
The shut down was never meant to cause the virus to disappear. It was meant to buy time for the medical community to prepare. The area under the curve was the same, so the same number of people were expected to get infected.
These new numbers are meant to scare, but they are meaningless.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:As I’ve told patients many times
Curious what medicine do you practice??? Knowing your credentials might help others in believing what you say.
Quoted from screaminr:Whether the article is correct or not , at least Who-Day is trying to find something positive about this shit show .
You have a handful of people in this thread that are nothing but doom and gloom. I'm suspect that they will still be here fear mongering long after the coronavirus is a thing of the past.
I see silver linings and darker linings from the newest data. The death rates are down (from the 5% morbidity that we had seen so far) I suspect due to the fact that this latest peak of the first wave of cases is skewing far younger than the earlier infections. I know our average age of infection here right now is early to mid 30's - from shitheads in bars not bothering to take any precautions.
The tougher development is that the long-term effects on the lungs looks awful for a lot of people. I know a few that have dealt with it, in their 40s and 50s, who can't climb stairs in their house or walk to the parking lot without getting winded severely now. I think that this a lot of us are more committed to never getting this thing than we were earlier on in the ordeal. I, too, was of the mindset that the point of flattening the curve was to space out the inevitability that we were all getting in, and just save the medical system from being overwhelmed. Well, I have a different opinion of it now. I don't want this thing taking years off the back end of my life for respiratory scarring and complications. Additionally, we now know that this thing is particularly bad for blood type A. I am A+, reconfirmed in the past two weeks by test just to make sure. So....I don't want this shit. And frankly, I don't give a damn what any non-epidemiologist thinks or has to say about this. In particular, anyone that clearly approaches everything from a well-honed Breitbart echo chamber rationale.
Regardless, our hospitals in DFW are bursting at the seams. ICU full at UTSW, and they are already moving more beds into the ICU and using the ER as triage at the Baylor and Preby systems. We have a ton of hospitals, but we have too many COVID patients already to take another few days like we have seen the past two weeks. And there is no sign of anything but things getting worse so far.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:How a good chunk of Americans view being asked to wear a mask and to social distance. No wonder we are seeing cases spiking in 20+ states. A one month national lockdown back in April looks pretty good right now.
[quoted image]
Maybe we’ll give that a shot soon, since everything is falling apart. Although I have a hunch with the election 5 months away itlll never happen.
Some things are just more important than hundreds of thousands of American lives. That’s really the big takeaway from the pandemic here.
Quoted from srmonte:Curious what medicine do you practice??? Knowing your credentials might help others in believing what you say.
Quoted from srmonte:Curious what medicine do you practice??? Knowing your credentials might help others in believing what you say.
Nobody has gotten too far in this thread being skeptical about dr. Gizzard. He’s the real deal, vouched for by the mods.
Quoted from gambit3113:I see silver linings and darker linings from the newest data. The death rates are down (from the 5% morbidity that we had seen so far) I suspect due to the fact that this latest peak of the first wave of cases is skewing far younger than the earlier infections. I know our average age of infection here right now is early to mid 30's - from shitheads in bars not bothering to take any precautions.
The tougher development is that the long-term effects on the lungs looks awful for a lot of people. I know a few that have dealt with it, in their 40s and 50s, who can't climb stairs in their house or walk to the parking lot without getting winded severely now. I think that this a lot of us are more committed to never getting this thing than we were earlier on in the ordeal. I, too, was of the mindset that the point of flattening the curve was to space out the inevitability that we were all getting in, and just save the medical system from being overwhelmed. Well, I have a different opinion of it now. I don't want this thing taking years off the back end of my life for respiratory scarring and complications. Additionally, we now know that this thing is particularly bad for blood type A. I am A+, reconfirmed in the past two weeks by test just to make sure. So....I don't want this shit. And frankly, I don't give a damn what any non-epidemiologist thinks or has to say about this. In particular, anyone that clearly approaches everything from a well-honed Breitbart echo chamber rationale.
Regardless, our hospitals in DFW are bursting at the seams. ICU full at UTSW, and they are already moving more beds into the ICU and using the ER as triage at the Baylor and Preby systems. We have a ton of hospitals, but we have too many COVID patients already to take another few days like we have seen the past two weeks. And there is no sign of anything but things getting worse so far.
Do you work in the hospital there?
Question for you if so, aren't ICU's full because hospitals are fully open for all patients now??
Quoted from Pinmeister:You need to look more closely at the data. Although the number of cases is up 32%, the number of deaths is down 31%. T
This discrepancy (more positives cases / less deaths) can be the result of at least 3-non exclusive reasons. Two of them are good news, the last one not so much:
- Increased testing on asymptomatic carriers of the virus. GOOD
- Improved treatment on patients (dexamethasone + knowing what to do / what not to do with your patient): lower fatality ratio. GOOD
- A new surge in contaminations that will lead to a new peak of casualties in 3-4 weeks. NOT SO GOOD
I would not be surprised if all three hypotheses are true. Time will tell to what extent.
As for me, I am on the "(very) cautious optimism" side.
Quoted from gambit3113:I see silver linings and darker linings from the newest data. The death rates are down (from the 5% morbidity that we had seen so far) I suspect due to the fact that this latest peak of the first wave of cases is skewing far younger than the earlier infections. I know our average age of infection here right now is early to mid 30's - from shitheads in bars not bothering to take any precautions.
The tougher development is that the long-term effects on the lungs looks awful for a lot of people. I know a few that have dealt with it, in their 40s and 50s, who can't climb stairs in their house or walk to the parking lot without getting winded severely now. I think that this a lot of us are more committed to never getting this thing than we were earlier on in the ordeal. I, too, was of the mindset that the point of flattening the curve was to space out the inevitability that we were all getting in, and just save the medical system from being overwhelmed. Well, I have a different opinion of it now. I don't want this thing taking years off the back end of my life for respiratory scarring and complications. Additionally, we now know that this thing is particularly bad for blood type A. I am A+, reconfirmed in the past two weeks by test just to make sure. So....I don't want this shit. And frankly, I don't give a damn what any non-epidemiologist thinks or has to say about this. In particular, anyone that clearly approaches everything from a well-honed Breitbart echo chamber rationale.
Regardless, our hospitals in DFW are bursting at the seams. ICU full at UTSW, and they are already moving more beds into the ICU and using the ER as triage at the Baylor and Preby systems. We have a ton of hospitals, but we have too many COVID patients already to take another few days like we have seen the past two weeks. And there is no sign of anything but things getting worse so far.
You're going to have a tough time arguing the following two points:
1. We will likely never see a vaccine, as in the 200,000 years humans have been on the planet, we've failed to develop one for a caronavirus yet.
2. Because of #1, herd immunity is the only path forward.
We all know where your risk tolerance is. Be safe. You do you.
Quoted from jlm33:Well, to be fair, I am not sure the mods got enough credentials in Health sciences to vouch for Dr. Gizzard's (or anyone else's) M.D. !
They haven’t revoked his license yet. He can’t be that bad of a doctor!
Del Monte just seems skeptical he should know that doc gizzard is an actual doctor.
Does he have the same credibility as some nobody with a YouTube account? Well, of course not! We all know randos on YouTube are the authority. Still, I like getting his perspective on things.
Quoted from srmonte:Curious what medicine do you practice??? Knowing your credentials might help others in believing what you say.
What are your credentials and are they written with crayon?
Quoted from smalltownguy2:You're going to have a tough time arguing the following two points:
1. We will likely never see a vaccine, as in the 200,000 years humans have been on the planet, we've failed to develop one for a caronavirus yet.
2. Because of #1, herd immunity is the only path forward.
We all know where your risk tolerance is. Be safe. You do you.
Yeah, that's not a valid point. The vaccines in Phase II trials are effective so far. We haven't bothered with many coronaviruses prior, and certainly never this well funded and dedicated. Most are nuisance viruses at best. The worst have been far less contagious and spread, obviously. This particular coronavirus does not mutate fast. Thus, effective vaccine is exponentially more likely. And ultimately, even if it isn't effective forever in theory, eliminating the virus entirely by herd immunity with the vaccine will, at best kill it off with one round. At worst a few over the coming years.
And it's a nice flourish of the wrist to throw a huge number like 200,000 out there for years we didn't create an effective vaccine. I would counter by pointing out that it's about the amount of time that humans quit wiping our asses with leaves. Vaccines were unknown and, at best, theoretical until 224 years ago. That's relevancy of 0.00112 of the time period you want to argue we should consider. Don't do that. Overreaching exposes your soft tummy. Stick to the dark meat.
I think I argue both points just fine. But whatever. You are right. I have to do me. And right now I choose to believe that the resources produce something that is effective to a greater degree than unmitigated exposure.
Quoted from Pinmeister:This is a novel virus, and the only way for it to disappear is through immunizations or herd immunity. We don't have a vaccine and you only develop herd immunity after enough people get the virus and survive.
I thought heard immunity always involves a vaccine. I can't imagine how awful things would have to get for us to get there without one... you are talking a large majority of the population getting it and millions and millions of people dying.
I hate to rain on any parade of good news about an advancement in a new vaccine for COVID.
I remind my friends of this fact when they mention a vaccine for this is on the way:
Keep in mind that the world discovered HIV back in 1983 and it changed our lives forever.
And to the best of my knowledge as of 2020, we have yet to create a complete working vaccine for that.
Quoted from dsmoke1986:Do you work in the hospital there?
Question for you if so, aren't ICU's full because hospitals are fully open for all patients now??
Me? No. A family member? Yep. And a neighbor at another facility.
...and I'm not quite understanding your question. You are suggesting that the ICUs are being crammed full due to the availability of the ER to all patients? Ummmm....what? If someone gets brained in a motorcycle wreck, they get to come into the ER and go to the ICU, whether or not COVID patients are the focus. On the other hand, they aren't stashing non-critical care patients in the ICUs just because they have room there. Hospitals are open for all necessary patients at all times, unless it's on fire, I guess. Elective procedures might have been contributing to less general hospital beds (non-ICU) in the past weeks. But whether Gov. Dipshit has cut them out again or not, the hospitals around here are reeling those back now.
Quoted from Who-Dey:You have a handful of people in this thread that are nothing but doom and gloom. I'm suspect that they will still be here fear mongering long after the coronavirus is a thing of the past.
That’s like my best case scenario... to still be here doom and glooming it up when this is all over.
Quoted from twoplays25c:I hate to rain on any parade of good news about an advancement in a new vaccine for COVID.
I remind my friends of this fact when they mention a vaccine for this is on the way:
Keep in mind that the world discovered HIV back in 1983 and it changed our lives forever.
And to the best of my knowledge as of 2020, we have yet to create a complete working vaccine for that.
With all the money paid ( grants etc,) in and the very smart people working on potential vacs for literal decades, I would expect some cures.
I'm guessing two reasons the death rate to overall cases in the USA and Europe are down is, way more asymptomatic people have been tested lately and warmer weather and fresh air is helping those with symptoms not get so deathly ill. It was still cold, winter weather when most those deaths occurred in NYC and Europe.
Brazil, which is now in winter is not faring so well. And the fact that it is still around and spreading fast in summer here shows that it has the ability to long outlast most ordinary respiratory viruses.
And with even more cases in the senior care facility, mom is still well and testing negative.
You can’t compare the failures of vaccination against one virus type to another. HIV mutates way more and in different ways than Coronaviruses mutate. And specifically this one, which isn’t mutating much and very quickly.
Quoted from jlm33:This discrepancy (more positives cases / less deaths) can be the result of at least 3-non exclusive reasons. Two of them are good news, the last one not so much:
- Increased testing on asymptomatic carriers of the virus. GOOD
- Improved treatment on patients (dexamethasone + knowing what to do / what not to do with your patient): lower fatality ratio. GOOD
- A new surge in contaminations that will lead to a new peak of casualties in 3-4 weeks. NOT SO GOOD
I would not be surprised if all three hypotheses are true. Time will tell to what extent.
As for me, I am on the "(very) cautious optimism" side.
My theory on the lower death rate is that it already has killed off the easy kills. The people that already had one foot in the grave were finished off already. The remaining population is a bit more hardy, so the death rate will slow more the longer this lasts.
Quoted from Oaken:That’s like my best case scenario... to still be here doom and glooming it up when this is all over.
Same here! 
Quoted from loneacer:My theory on the lower death rate is that it already has killed off the easy kills.
There are still plenty more where they came from. Especially in the USA. If this is still around late fall, it could be a very ugly winter.
Remember, it first hit the USA end of winter. If it had gotten here a month or two sooner, it could have been much worse.
Yeah America remains old and obese.
Plenty of people left for the virus to kill. Millions in fact.
Seems we are dead set on finding out.
Just for informational purposes, there is a drug called Pre-exposure prophylaxis or PrEP for HIV.
From the CDC. "Studies have shown that PrEP reduces the risk of getting HIV from sex by about 99% when taken daily".
https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/basics/prep.html
I agree a Covid vaccine is likely a long way off and may never happen. I'm hoping they can come up with an effective antidote to treat infected people in the mean time.
My antibody test came back negative. As backwards as Florida can sometimes be, our sheriff is doing a great job keeping us informed. We get daily numbers on how many known cases are in our immediate area and how many addresses are being monitored. The numbers just keep going up.
Woah, Texas and California both had over 5,000 new cases yesterday, Florida 3,000 and Arizona 2,200. Not good. I keep thinking about how so many states are getting their infection rate under control and then these other states are just exploding. As Summer hits and people start travelling more, people from these states with high infection rates are going to spread it to the people in states that have been much more disciplined in their approach.
Is this the second wave or still the first wave?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Yeah America remains old and obese.
Plenty of people left for the virus to kill. Millions in fact.
Seems we are dead set on finding out.
I assume we all have read in the past that humans are working on overpopulating the earth. We are at 7.7 billion now, projected to go to 11 billion people by 2100.
Since no one is interested in saving the planet by volunteering to commit suicide maybe this virus will wind up shaving off a couple of billion people.
https://ourworldindata.org/future-population-growth
image (resized).pngQuoted from srmonte:Curious what medicine do you practice??? Knowing your credentials might help others in believing what you say.
If you go back and read my posts in this thread I believe I said what my specialty is in the first post I made.
Bottom line is, me giving my credentials won’t really sway anyone who doesn’t want to believe what I’m telling them. This is the internet after all, I could be a Chinese hacker for all you know. Come down to Dallas and make an appointment to see me, then you’ll know I’m a real live M.D.
I am actually fairly indifferent if they come up with a vaccine or not as it is something I won't be getting. Especially if it is a rush job.
And my idea of staying healthy does not involve sitting on a couch getting old and fat and waiting for science or a doctor to provide a shot that can cure me.
Quoted from Who-Dey:You have a handful of people in this thread that are nothing but doom and gloom. I'm suspect that they will still be here fear mongering long after the coronavirus is a thing of the past.
Yep it's all fake news. Nothing to worry about. The economy is awesome, it's just the flu, it's fading away etc etc etc.....
Sigh
Quoted from mcluvin:For anyone considering an antibody test, check your blood donor centers. Ours do the antibody test for free with a donation.
Good call. The Vitalant (formerly Bonfils) centers currently will provide antibody results with a donation.
Quoted from clg:Yep it's all fake news. Nothing to worry about. The economy is awesome, it's just the flu, it's fading away etc etc etc.....
Sigh
I never said that. Its definitely real and more than the flu but it's not near as bad as they are leading you to believe. There's not much we can do about it. If you shut the country down more people will die from that than they will the coronavirus and that's a fact.
Quoted from o-din:I'm guessing two reasons the death rate to overall cases in the USA and Europe are down is, way more asymptomatic people have been tested lately and warmer weather and fresh air is helping those with symptoms not get so deathly ill. It was still cold, winter weather when most those deaths occurred in NYC and Europe.
Brazil, which is now in winter is not faring so well. And the fact that it is still around and spreading fast in summer here shows that it has the ability to long outlast most ordinary respiratory viruses.
And with even more cases in the senior care facility, mom is still well and testing negative.
Keep in mind that there is generally a multiple week lag between an uptick in cases and an uptick in deaths. I would suggest you watch the proportion that are positive on the test, as that also conveys important information.
Quoted from statsdoc:Keep in mind that there is generally a multiple week lag between an uptick in cases and an uptick in deaths. I would suggest you watch the proportion that are positive on the test, as that also conveys important information.
I've been watching like a hawk. Memorial day hit us last week, and the riots and protests should be hitting about now. Positive on the test has no constant relation to deaths now that so many more tests are being done. It will always be changing the more they do.
But also remember there were 30,000 deaths in New York and most of those happened when the weather was cold. Same with Europe. The only place with that kind of dense death toll now is Brazil, and again it is now getting cold there.
My point being, the numbers show the weather has little or no affect on the spreading or transmission of the disease, but it does on the death toll.
Quoted from statsdoc:Keep in mind that there is generally a multiple week lag between an uptick in cases and an uptick in deaths. I would suggest you watch the proportion that are positive on the test, as that also conveys important information.
We may not see an uptick in deaths right away with this spike. The folks getting it in AZ, TX and FL are skewing younger. That doesn’t mean it’s not going to be a big deal for them though. Even if they survive COVID, critical care pulmonologists are seeing significant complications related to blood flow to the lungs due to the coagulative effects of the virus. I work on a drug for pulmonary hypertension and we met with several thought leaders in our space the last two weeks. The folks from NY, Michigan and Boston who saw a lot of COVID in the first wave are worried that there is going to be a significant portion of survivors that are going to have chronic shortness of breath going forward. They’re starting to organize some registries to follow these patients long term to identify what type of complications to expect long term. This may be a virus that even if you survive you’re not completely out of the woods.
Quoted from Who-Dey:If you shut the country down more people will die from that than they will the coronavirus and that's a fact.
Show us *any* set of statistics to prove this fact.
You really do like to make shit up as you go along, don't you? LOL
Big uptick in Washington state right now. And this may not even be the second wave yet, but perhaps just the first wave resuming now that things have opened back up and thousands of people hit the streets.
Again, I do believe the whole country would be in much worse shape than it's already put itself in if Christmas was next month instead of Independence Day. Seems I might the only one here anyway. But fair weather also lends itself to more people being out and about. Time will or might tell. Next winter will be here soon enough.
Quoted from o-din:The only place with that kind of dense death toll now is Brazil, and again it is now getting cold there.
It's not that cold in Brazil right now. Cases in Brazil are surging because their leader is a moron who refuses to do anything about the virus.
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Wichita, KS
Villejuif
