Woman in her 20's that had a pre-existing condition requiring immunity suppressing drugs. Doc says we may see more need for lung transplants bc some survivors of severe disease have extensive lung damage. Holy moly, this is some flu.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/surgeons-perform-first-known-us-lung-transplant-for-covid-19-patient/2020/06/10/02a43dd6-ab62-11ea-a9d9-a81c1a491c52_story.html?fbclid=IwAR23CqMzM8dr7um2FNvxNINbMvnY3eEGs4-EgnKlTWusWMypLUve3Rbm4EM&utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

This is strange, if you register to attend a presidential rally, you have to sign a Covid waiver.

09B0B5CF-08A2-4F08-8539-D75843F2104E (resized).png

My wife's friend has a farm. We go out every year during strawberry season to pick strawberries. It's closed of course. There were more ripe, unpicked strawberries than I've ever seen in my life. Nobody around for a half mile in any direction. It was surreal.

Sure. We just need to fire the coach, GM, and the rest of the front office.

Yeah being prepared is for losers.

Since you are constantly fixated on NYC, tell us how we are doing? Not sure if they are giving you updates on this on cable news, but seems to me our numbers are in excellent shape and trending downward...kind of the opposite of a bunch of other "don't give a fuck" states. Deaths and new cases WAY down...Texas had over twice as many new cases as we did yesterday.

And i just had a bunch of drinks and ate a burger on a patio with some friends on 9th avenue. We are reopening, and loving it! And we get to be smug about it because we did it THE RIGHT WAY and crushed the curve while you guys were partying like it was 2019.

Also the odd person seems to deny that Natural herd immunity IS in fact an actual thing, and take into account the benefit that Sweden may well now have much more of this than most countries as a result of their chosen path. How things play out may tell an interesting story.

Here we have been denied our right of natural resistance to the seasonal spread of all the regular contagious infections so far this year. We are also at greater risk of second wave than they would be.

I can trust fairy bread parties well before the ramshackle man made chemical experiment machine. Money, power, and greed is all that is really at the centre of that, not actual genuine human interest.

Actually, they now believe the Spsnish Flu also started in China and was first brought to America and/or Europe by Chinese immigrant workers at that time.

The virus is scary enough and when you start thinking economy and global instability it all just gets worse so people will grab onto whatever they can to help provide a bit of comfort or reassurance that it will be OK.

What did that look like? Was it properly distance? I haven't heard much about NY in recent weeks, I assume that's a good sign. WI has had what appears to be a dip in rates/cases over the last week. But that's really only because we had some big spikes from mid May into June. Oddly enough, those spikes all happened after the WI supreme court cured coronavirus.

I expect things will get worse, but I hope I'm wrong. I don't see many people wearing masks. I would say very few people are doing grocery pickup/delivery. That's might be a decent 'litmus' test. What's the percentage of grocery orders in your state that are selected as picked up/delivered? If your state overwhelmingly insists on picking out their own bagel bites and hot pockets, I'd also be willing to bet they see a bigger increase than those states that are willing to accept that some other human is capable of deciding on an appropriate alternative selection when the store is out of nacho jalapeno meatball stuffed taquitos.

I could be wrong, but maybe that will make it into my screener questions when deciding who to interact with this summer.

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Hmm is that even legal? For example:

"Under California law, a liability waiver cannot excuse an injury caused by a defendant's gross negligence, recklessness or intentional wrongful act."

So if you sign that waiver and people in the room are not wearing masks, could a prosecutor claim gross negligence, recklessness or intentional wrongful act on the part of the organizers? Then again we tend to have more protections than most in our state, so they probably picked a state which completely indemnifies the organizers.

Ha

When I polish off an entire bag of cool ranch tomorrow I’ll sing an oompa song about it after.

Stunning ballet dancers in a deserted Amsterdam

(found in this article :https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2020/jun/12/lockdown-dance-online-videos)

Haha, nice! Though I do think a hairdresser is more essential than a liquor store, I think it's also a matter of weighing risks. How close do you have to be to each other? How long do you have to be inside? Both those questions are easily won by a store. That said: I'm going to the hairdresser today for the first time since the start of februari... I do feel a little uncomfortable because of that.

Sorry to go off topic but I now regret posting that portion of my comment several days ago. This chart can explain.

1034 - 1100 x 1200 (resized).jpg

One day this virus will have nowhere else to go.
whether that's by running out of hosts or immunisation or a miracle. Don't know. Looks like taking years.
If I catch it and don't survive well I loved pinball.
Some countries have dodged it. Some havent. Like the recent protests are trying to say, we are all one species on this planet.
Probably better if we work together.
Keep calm and play pinball.

People won't die if they don't get a hair cut, but they could if they go through alcohol withdrawals.

The Bergamo province in Italy has reported a antibody level of 57% now, herd immunity has always been a secondary thing here that is yet to be seen if it will occur, a vaccine may well be needed for that but there will be a level of immunity for sure that may last at least 3-6 month as far as what has be assumed now.
We expect a second wave this autumn, hopefully that will be milder to us but who knows.

90% of Swedens death is in the age of 70 or older so that group will most likely need a vaccine when and if avilable, 1% is below the age of 50.
Most has had other tougher diceases too.

All about this pandemic is so complicated with so many unknown variables and different aspects that its it hard to judge others situation.
Sweden has a lot to learn about tracing, initially the returning travellers from Italy were the only ones who was tested since the first official outbreak in Europe was there and because lack of test equipment as well, since a few days ago they have found two more strains that arrived at about the same time from other countries, mainly UK, France, The Netherlands and East US which had a big impact to the spreading.

This is good article. Too bad it is CNN. The Foxies will call it fake news

It won't take years. Worst case, one year given how many vaccine and treatment candidates there are in clinical trials.

Some of these will surely emerge and be effective. Hopefully it will be a few of the early candidates so we can move the timeframe up to end of this year.

I have not been to a hair dresser/barber in over 20 years (cut my own), I have however been to a liquor store recently!

Don't get too cocky thinking NYC licked this thing. I think you're going to find out as things reopen and people start going out to eat, shop, etc. a second wave is inevitable, particularly in a densely populated area like NYC.

It is almost inevitable NYC will see a 2nd spike over time as things reopen. Hopefully it won't be as bad as the first, though.

"The 10-hour procedure was challenging because the virus had left her lungs full of holes and almost fused to the chest wall, Dr. Ankit Bharat, who performed the operation, said Wednesday."

This is a picture of her one lung that was ravaged by Covid19. Amazing that this came out of a women in her 20's. What's really amazing is that some people have little no symptoms and others need hospitalization or die. Weird little virus.

lungs_ (resized).jpg

You will all need a vaccine. Older people are disproportionately affected but younger people also suffer complications or can die.

Not only that, getting vaccinated reduces the risk for spreading it around. That is how "herd immunity" is achieved, not Sweden's experiment.

Ask an "ex-spert" hey...

Newsflash, herd immunity, and healthy population, is not achieved purely with flawed artificial pathogens.

Please stop propagating such nonsense. Thanks.

Is that like some more of the kind of "evidence" that some have used before to "support the case for action (war)"?

Yep, New Yorkers sure did it the right way Any concerns for when these folks move back home and bring the crud with them?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/16/nyregion/nyc-coronavirus-moving-leaving.html

Could you enlighten us on what "Sweden's experiment" is all about

Maryland arcades reopen 19 June at 50%. Restaraunts today!

https://www.thebaynet.com/articles/0620/starting-june-19-gyms-casinos-malls-can-begin-reopening.html

Or send in the big ship. When in NYC the 1000 bed boat only took in 182 patients.
70% of them had covid
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2020/04/30/hospital-ship-comfort-departs-nyc-having-treated-fewer-than-200-patients/

I questioned that myself. As in all things, it depends on what you read.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC340389/

" It has never been clear, however, where this pandemic began...

" That review suggests that the most likely site of origin was Haskell County, Kansas, an isolated and sparsely populated county in the southwest corner of the state, in January 1918.

" But before presenting the evidence for Haskell County it is useful to review other hypotheses of the site of origin. Some medical historians and epidemiologists have theorized that the 1918 pandemic began in Asia, citing a lethal outbreak of pulmonary disease in China as the forerunner of the pandemic. Others have speculated the virus was spread by Chinese or Vietnamese laborers either crossing the United States or working in France.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/

Nat'l Geographic suggests China. But the article is sort of blocked until you offer them your email address so NG can email you things. I have enough things hitting my email already.

A vaccine will be stellar when one is developed maybe in a year. Even if we had a vaccine some wouldn't take it because of government tracking nanobots or lack of trusting doctors and scientists. My immune systems healthier than a mule ma' or whatever...

The BIG 2 - Social Distance/6-ft in crowds and Face Coverings/Masks. If everyone wore a mask in the US for 3 weeks we would have most likely gotten rid of it. Unfortunately, without a "top down" coordinated effort we are going have inconsistency among the states in the US. I've mentioned this already but the US has NO plan for the virus as of yet - nothing.

Were opening up everything and people are already way to laxed like things have changed. Nothing has changed and it looks like the virus is ramping up for the summer. Spiking - no - the first wave is still happening. I hear some of my office mates talking about going out for a sit down meal instead of carry out. I'm thinking, go ahead and have some Covid Soup as the air-conditioning is recirculated around you.

This thing is only temporary. Living in the age of technology and burying our faces on our phones has made use really impatient. Its made some people have the attention span of a goldfish.

I made a post siting the author Michael Crichton on "behavior" vs extinction and I'll post it again because there's some important messages in there...

The forward to Michael Crichtons, "The Lost World" always stuck with me after reading his book. The premise was how "behavior" could have been the demise of some dinosaurs. He goes on to talk about the behavior of humans might make "Us" extinct as well. His books are pretty deep considering they are fiction based from science. All bad ass and highly recommended but Jurassic Park, The Lost World and Sphere were incredible.

-----“What makes you think human beings are sentient and aware? There’s no evidence for it. Human beings never think for themselves, they find it too uncomfortable. For the most part, members of our species simply repeat what they are told—and become upset if they are exposed to any different view.”

----- “Human beings are so destructive. I sometimes think we're a kind of plague, that will scrub the earth clean. We destroy things so well that I sometimes think, maybe that's our function. Maybe every few eons, some animal comes along that kills off the rest of the world, clears the decks, and lets evolution proceed to its next phase.”

----- “Other animals fight for territory or food; but, uniquely in the animal kingdom, human beings fight for their ‘beliefs.’ The reason is that beliefs guide behavior, which has evolutionary importance among human beings. But at a time when our behavior may well lead us to extinction, I see no reason to assume we have any awareness at all. We are stubborn, self-destructive conformists. Any other view of our species is just a self-congratulatory delusion.”

Mini rant over

You might want to do some research before assuming a comment is politically oriented. Lets just say one of us is propagating uneducated nonsense on these topics and it isn't me...

https://www.history.com/news/china-epicenter-of-1918-flu-pandemic-historian-says

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808

Well to be fair, at first they banned all covid cases and refused to let ambulances drop people off until after they first had gone to a brick and mortar hospital and been tested/cleared.

Then they really screwed with all the logistics of getting people to the ship.

By the time they had it all sorted out, the ship wasn’t needed as badly anymore.

It is my understanding that even if we had the best most beautiful vaccine the likes of which you have never seen and we had it Today, we still wouldn’t be able to manufacture and distribute a significant amount by the end of the year.

That’s the other half of the problem that concerns me.

Sweden's response to the coronavirus was... let's go have some meatballs. There were no lockdowns, there were no restrictions that I'm aware of. I believe their per capita death rate is among the highest for the virus. They were basically attempting to get to herd immunity quicker by letting more people get infected. Unfortunately that led to more dead people so far. HOWEVER, the experiment is not over, because coronavirus is not over. Six months from now we might find out that what they did was a better way to handle it in the long run. Or they may have even more dead people than they would have if they locked down.

I guess that is still the problem with this. Lots of ideas on how to handle it, and nobody is 100% sure how it will all turn out. That is the big reason I still lean towards being cautious. If I'm wrong, I'm labeled a nervous Nellie. And if I'm right... I might live longer. That makes it an easy choice.

Public health department workers/leaders are struggling with the dangers of the pandemic...not the virus, the armed protesters.

https://apnews.com/8839ed5e94eea718304820218919738e

It isn't just National Geographic, there are many mainstream sources and historians now saying that their research points at areas in No. China as the origin of "Spanish Flu."

It was likely spread to Europe and No. America via Chinese workers assisting in the war effort or immigrating for work opportunities.

Also, the historian who postulated it originated in Kansas has since backed away from that assertion.

https://www.livescience.com/amp/spanish-flu.html

"We don't know and will probably never know,” John M. Barry, the author of "The Great Influenza," a history of the 1918 flu, told USA TODAY. In his book, Barry advanced the theory that the virus began in rural Kansas, but “work since then has caused me to back away from that. The best evidence points to China. Other theories suggest France or Vietnam.”

Yes this is what I have heard. In NZ we are hearing that we may not get a vaccine here for 2-3 years becasue of production and that we will probably be low priority if we still have it contained meaning our border may not open till 2022 to a significant degree.

Achieve "herd immunity" faster and without a vaccine by keeping those older or in nursing homes isolated and keep everything else open with minimal restrictions (outside large group gatherings).

Tell me where I'm wrong? ... Your countries head epidemiologist and architect of Sweden's plan is now taking a lot of heat and criticism even from within Sweden.

Don't get too upset or defensive, though. The US despite the evidence and models has embarked on a similar path and will see similar results the next few months.

Maybe, but not IF this one hopefully pans out.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/investing/astrazeneca-vaccine-coronavirus/index.html

For the record, as of today 10% or less peoples wearing a mask in my town. I figure if it is a biological weapon then human stupidity must have been factored in.

Yes, the ship they brought to LA served about 70 patients. lol.

What we were discussing yesterday is the USA is pretty much in a "bring it on!" mode as far as a second wave that will extremely overwhelm hospitals as it already is again in several states. I guess when they are full and there aren't enough health care workers to take care of them all, they can set up death tents in hospital parking lots to handle the overflow.

Interesting read on how a president from the "other" party handled the last pandemic.

My opinion is no matter what party you represent, being president in time of a pandemic is a no win situation.

https://www.4sighthealth.com/then-and-now-what-woodrow-wilsons-1918-pandemic-failure-can-teach-us-today/

One of my retirement hobbies is attending the local Friday night auction. It is nothing fancy. There is a bleacher type platform with perhaps 100 folding chairs. Sort of like a movie theater.

The auction sent me a snail mail saying there will be an auction tonight. And that due to the Covid-19 the seating arrangements have been changed for social distancing. I went up today to see what is selling tonight. I won't be going back for awhile.

For each row of chairs, it looks like the auction removed 2 chairs per row and spread the chairs out. Now, instead of you and me literally rubbing shoulders, there will be about 12 inches/one foot between us. The number of rows from bottom to top are unchanged.

So much for social distancing when the state/county left it up to each business to determine what distance is adequate.

And yes, NYC should be proud that it has accounted for 15% of the covid-19 deaths in the entire USA at around 17,000.

If only we had had so many deaths early on instead of our governor and mayors imposing stay at home orders as soon as it hit and closing the state, then Ca. might be in the running and we could be cheering too instead of our measly 5000 deaths state wide. But you guys did it THE RIGHT WAY. Hats off to NYC!

It’s referred to as an “experiment” because Sweden is doing something different than most other countries. Less restrictions, limited lockdowns etc. At least two assumptions were made: 1. It would take a long time (2years or more) for a vaccine to be developed and 2. The mortality rate was low. In essence it was thought that no matter what countries did the proportion of population infected and dying would be the same by the time a vaccine became available or the pandemic ran its course. Therefore why compound the problem by closing down the economy as well.
I think it will be a while before we get any reliable economic data as this will take months to evolve and I have not seen any good economic comparisons to date.
But the early assumptions Sweden made on when a vaccine will be available and the mortality rate are probably wrong. Meaning other countries may not “catch up” to them in terms of death rate.
Sweden’s epidemiologists were also critical of the approach New Zealand took essentially closing itself down for 6 weeks. They thought elimination was impossible. Economically it’s been tough on some parts of our economy but for now we are Covid free and life, except international travel, is returning to normal.
Comparing the two “experiments” will be interesting. For now it is too early to make comparisons.

There are some minor restrictions in place and a lot of recommendations, you may call it a soft lockdown in terms of the citizens taking own responsibility and follow the guidlines set by the health departement, there are much more to it than just having some meatballs and the idea of herd immunity as a strategy is quite normal belife among thoose who dont know whats going on here.

Swedens death per capita is among the highest thats for sure along with lockdown countries as well.
I fully agree on that no one knows how it will turn out in the end, time will tell, if you are in a risk group its wise to be extra careful.