This topic is closed.
Quoted from o-din:Even I am not immune to this illness after being home for over two months. Not the virus, but so sick, I am contemplating buying this.
My dad was a TV repairman, I can fix it.
orangecounty.craigslist.org link
Welcome back. How was your vacation??
Quoted from PantherCityPins:who-dey Still waiting on that proof that doctors and hospitals are committing billing fraud to drive up COVID numbers and reap the huge sum of an additional 20% payment.
The great thing about unfounded, outrageous, baseless claims is that you don’t have to substantiate them.
It’s part of what is making 2020 such a blast!
Quoted from Who-Dey:This will be sure to set some of you off! How bad of an idea do you think that this is?
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/nfl-plans-to-have-full-stadiums-in-september-august-league-official-says
yes please! turn the sports back on so all of the dilettantes can stop following this virus like it is a sports team! The mental strain of not enough tribal distraction is just too much for the average Joe.....get 'er done!
babbling about only vaguely understood sporting theory is much less dangerous to the social fabric.
Quoted from DNO:As Spock said “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”
Or something like that.
The whole of the population just can’t cater to that small % of people, it’s on those people to figure some safe ways.
It’s not perfect, or necessarily “right”.
But neither is everyone suffering for them.
Estimates of US pop(some overlap expected):
10% has a form diabetes
15% Are over 65
7% have most common form of heart disease
7-8% have asthma
Something like 3% immunocompromised
COPD is somewhere around 5%
Over 100 million have high blood pressure
etc...
Point being, it’s a lot of people, not a small %. As a country we are not exactly bastions of good health.
Also, healthy people are getting hospitalized with lingering effects too. Maybe they aren’t dying, but they can still be impacted.
As I have said before, my postulate is that even if we sacrifice the weak to the economic volcano, they are a big enough minority that they will pull in everyone else too.
Quoted from Who-Dey:This will be sure to set some of you off! How bad of an idea do you think that this is?
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/nfl-plans-to-have-full-stadiums-in-september-august-league-official-says
Pipe dream!! Especially not in every nfl city.
I’d feel a lot more sympathetic to the “open it all back up” crowd if they were sharing real stories of personal struggle, even if they’re links to articles or videos (like that great one about the upcoming wave of evictions). When you guys talk about massive suicides and murder and chaos without anything to back it up, you just sound like keyboard warriors. Tell us about someone you know who’s unable to work, and that makes it more real for all of us. Just like articles written by real people who survived COVID makes it (hopefully) more real for you. Personal stories also have a way of breaking down tribalism, that’s why we need more of those from both sides.
It’s not even a real argument anymore. Most people are for opening up smartly. Trying to get the stragglers to take distancing and masks seriously would be helpful to the effort, but some are just determined not to for some reason.
Quoted from chad:Welcome back. How was your vacation??
Great, thanks!
Got a lot more stuff done with the internet turned off for a week, that's for sure.
And that Nascar race with a couple buddies over yesterday was epic!
Today, I am seriously contemplating becoming Jeep man once again. Camo exterior optional. Gotta do something...
Quoted from PantherCityPins:who-dey Still waiting on that proof that doctors and hospitals are committing billing fraud to drive up COVID numbers and reap the huge sum of an additional 20% payment.
You don't expect him to have actual facts to support the drivel he parrots from the radio? C'mon man... "Everyone" knows... LOL
I do sympathize with those who are out of work. It sucks. It is something we need to fix. We need to open the economy in a smart, stable way that causes the least number of COVID cases possible.
But I will always disagree with those who take the "it's all overblown, open everything up" approach because that approach leads to people dying needlessly.
Yes, it sucks you are out of work, being dead sucks more.
Yes, it sucks you can't go to your favorite bar, being dead sucks more.
Yes, it sucks that rates of depression are rising due to the shelter at home orders, being dead sucks more.
Yes, it sucks that the elderly are stuck in their nursing homes and assisted living facilities and can't be visited by family, being dead sucks more.
Yes, it sucks that millions of people are out of work and many small businesses are going out of business, being dead sucks more.
In short, if you ask me whether I choose someone being dead or someone not being able to pull a paycheck, I'm gonna choose the option that doesn't end up with more people dead every time.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:I do sympathize with those who are out of work. It sucks.
Don't feel any sympathy for me, buddy. I'll take it as long as it can last. It does not suck. Last job was 8 straight years.
I'm not one of those fools that lives in debt with the notion that whatever money was coming in would keep on coming forever, but will gladly accept whatever does come until it runs out.
Quoted from swampfire:I’d feel a lot more sympathetic to the “open it all back up” crowd if they were sharing real stories of personal struggle, even if they’re links to articles or videos (like that great one about the upcoming wave of evictions). When you guys talk about massive suicides and murder and chaos without anything to back it up, you just sound like keyboard warriors. Tell us about someone you know who’s unable to work, and that makes it more real for all of us. Just like articles written by real people who survived COVID makes it (hopefully) more real for you. Personal stories also have a way of breaking down tribalism, that’s why we need more of those from both sides.
The double digit unemployment rates for every state aren't enough?
I have yet to hear about minimum wage earners demanding the Wendy’s dining room reopens so they can return to their shitty jobs.
I don’t see poultry plant workers begging for their unsafe plants to reopen.
These are not the people who are waving guns around at state houses. I’m not sure why those people insist on “speaking out” on these workers’ behalf. They didn’t ask for it. As far as I can tell then don’t want it.
They opened up Ventura County where I live including shopping and dining but not gyms and spas, curious to see how that will go. It is nice to see businesses bustling again although the return of imbeciles driving slow in the passing lane on the highway has also returned, so good with the bad I guess. I do support it because the data at least in our area is pretty good, so time for this phase. We personally aren't comfortable eating in dining rooms so we'll avoid that, but we are starting to eat out more again. I figure if the cases spike and hospitals get flooded then they will close up again, but in our area people are pretty good at following the rules. Most everyone around here wears a mask indoors and looks like most stores are requiring that anyways, we certainly won't shop in any store that doesn't have a mask requirement. Hopefully parking on pch will open up again because I love to do canyon drives and chill at the beach with a burger when I'm done.
Quoted from poppapin:The double digit unemployment rates for every state aren't enough?
That’s kind of my point. Statistics and numbers don’t move the needle for most people. Heck, they’re now estimating 178k deaths by August 4, and you guys seem to shrug it off as meaningless.
Quoted from swampfire:That’s kind of my point. Statistics and numbers don’t move the needle for most people. Heck, they’re now estimating 178k deaths by August 4, and you guys seem to shrug it off as meaningless.
Yeah if 100,000 dead isn’t gonna cause anybody to lose any sleep I don’t see why I should care that Chili’s is only doing curb side.
Apparently, after a few new infections in Wuhan, China took it serious enough to order 150 million people to stay home again.
But we aint China, that's for sure. We can only use them as a reference as to what could have or should have been done being they are a couple months ahead of us.
Think I could use a couple more weeks or months off at least. I'll keep busy. And feel good that I am doing my part.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:who-dey Still waiting on that proof that doctors and hospitals are committing billing fraud to drive up COVID numbers and reap the huge sum of an additional 20% payment.
I know one person who's relative died of terminal cancer and her death certificate says she died of covid 19, plus we are reading that this is happening a lot. I cant prove that to you just like you cant prove to me that it isnt happening but I believe it to be true. Once again this is the pandemic that never showed up and you know it's true also if you are a doctor. I doubt seriously that you are being overrun with coronavirus patients. How many have you personally had?
Quoted from o-din:There is certainly a job out there now for anybody that really wants one.[quoted image]
One very weird movie - American beauty image
Quoted from cdnpinbacon:One very weird movie - American beauty
Not sure if you have looked at the camo job on that Jeep I am thinking about getting, but that's weird! It's got a V-8 and manual trans though.
00K0K_ayvvWOEo5Us_600x450 (resized).jpgQuoted from Who-Dey:I know one person who's relative died of terminal cancer and her death certificate says she died of covid 19, plus we are reading that this is happening a lot. I cant prove that to you just like you cant prove to me that it isnt happening but I believe it to be true. Once again this is the pandemic that never showed up and you know it's true also if you are a doctor. I doubt seriously that you are being overrun with coronavirus patients. How many have you personally had?
So if you can’t prove it, probably best to not say “It is a proven fact that hospitals are lying about Covid 19 deaths to get extra money.”
It seems like your MO is to throw an outrageous statement out there to stir the pot and then back off to a more reasonable position when called out on it. Maybe better to start off from the reasonable position and save us all some keystrokes?
Quoted from Who-Dey:I know one person who's relative died of terminal cancer and her death certificate says she died of covid 19, plus we are reading that this is happening a lot. I cant prove that to you just like you cant prove to me that it isnt happening but I believe it to be true. Once again this is the pandemic that never showed up and you know it's true also if you are a doctor. I doubt seriously that you are being overrun with coronavirus patients. How many have you personally had?
Patients with many types of terminal cancers can live for years with and sometimes even without treatment. Many blood cancers like CML, CLL, as well as many solid tumors are incurable but slow growing.
What type of cancer did this person have and were they within weeks of death from the cancer? If not, what terminated their life prematurely was Covid19.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:I do sympathize with those who are out of work
Quoted from o-din:Don't feel any sympathy for me, buddy.
I’m with you o-din. 2019 I took a financial hit, in Jan I sold my only pin GoT pre. To cover my personal debt before this crisis started. I was laid off mid March. So, even though I don’t have a pin at home right now. Don’t cry for me. My only debt is a very manageable mortgage. We have more then 3 months expenses in savings. My employment insurance will last until February and I virtually make the same on it as when I was working. I’m content sheltering I place for the foreseeable future.
Quoted from Who-Dey:I know one person who's relative died of terminal cancer and her death certificate says she died of covid 19, plus we are reading that this is happening a lot. I cant prove that to you just like you cant prove to me that it isnt happening but I believe it to be true. Once again this is the pandemic that never showed up and you know it's true also if you are a doctor. I doubt seriously that you are being overrun with coronavirus patients. How many have you personally had?
"Argument from ignorance (from Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance represents "a lack of contrary evidence"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or a proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true."
In the Netherlands we think the number of deaths are higher than the official reported Covid deaths. Even if some Covid deaths were somehow falsely reported as a Covid death, there's more that aren't registered as Covid it seems, for the total amount of deaths has been WAY higher than the average normal deaths + covid deaths combined in these months. A lot of people have died that haven't been tested and were registered another death cause for the simpel reason there wasn't an official Covid-19 diagnose. So here, numbers should be quite higher than the official ones.
I don't know what that's like in most other countries. I do know Germany had lots more testing capacity earlier on, so their numbers were more accurate. I think Belgium also counts suspicious non-tested deaths, so that's why it seems Covid infection over there is worse than in The Netherlands, even though that may not be true.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:So if you can’t prove it, probably best to not say “It is a proven fact that hospitals are lying about Covid 19 deaths to get extra money.”
It seems like your MO is to throw an outrageous statement out there to stir the pot and then back off to a more reasonable position when called out on it. Maybe better to start off from the reasonable position and save us all some keystrokes?
Yes this is the whole “just asking questions” mantra of the conspiracy theorist.
“Just throwing things out there” and taking zero responsibility. Wonder where they learned that.
The Virus is GONE here at my nearest Lowes in PA this afternoon. Special Mennonite and Redneck COVID antigens at work, I suppose.
My county is still Red Phase requiring masks and distancing....these are 4 of the 6 in the custom paint line without masks....and they got served!! UGH.
Oh and the woman in the orange is pregnant, too. That kid is destined to inherit some awesome genes in the smarts department.
20200525_151628 (resized).jpg
Quoted from PantherCityPins:So if you can’t prove it, probably best to not say “It is a proven fact that hospitals are lying about Covid 19 deaths to get extra money.”
It seems like your MO is to throw an outrageous statement out there to stir the pot and then back off to a more reasonable position when called out on it. Maybe better to start off from the reasonable position and save us all some keystrokes?
He is trolling it's what he does.
Quoted from o-din:Not sure if you have looked at the camo job on that Jeep I am thinking about getting, but that's weird! It's got a V-8 and manual trans though.
[quoted image]
look doesn't matter anyhow when covered in mud. Kinda like it ...turn me loose cranked on the stereo !
Quoted from Who-Dey:... this is the pandemic that never showed up
I can’t even start to understand why someone would say that.
Quoted from sven:In the Netherlands we think the number of deaths are higher than the official reported Covid deaths. Even if some Covid deaths were somehow falsely reported as a Covid death, there's more that aren't registered as Covid it seems, for the total amount of deaths has been WAY higher than the average normal deaths + covid deaths combined in these months. A lot of people have died that haven't been tested and were registered another death cause for the simpel reason there wasn't an official Covid-19 diagnose. So here, numbers should be quite higher than the official ones.
I don't know what that's like in most other countries. I do know Germany had lots more testing capacity earlier on, so their numbers were more accurate. I think Belgium also counts suspicious non-tested deaths, so that's why it seems Covid infection over there is worse than in The Netherlands, even though that may not be true.
Fauci seems to think it should be higher as well. One thing I've seen brought up multiple times is the fact that our pneumonia deaths were way above average in February and March, before testing was in place. I don't know if the below is the best article on it, but at least it gives some rough estimations:
https://www.thinkadvisor.com/2020/04/06/what-ordinary-flu-and-pneumonia-death-numbers/
I have no doubt that there is some overcounting and undercounting going on, depending on the state, but with every other country basically showing large totals, the US total seems reasonable as well.
Quoted from Who-Dey:I need some dental work right now and a haircut and im kind of afraid to go.
The only way, I mean the only way I would be laying back in a dentist chair right now is if I was dealing with root canal. I have had 4 root canals. The pain they offer changes your risk parameters 180 degrees almost immediately.
I also need a haircut, but those two hair dressers that managed to expose almost 200 people the other day kiboshed that idea. I have an advantage over some of you younger people, though. I use to wear it long. I don't mind trying to look like Wille Nelson again--if it comes to that.
Here’s a story from my local news. This lady is Is a nurse that started feeling sick in March. She can’t go back to work until she receives 2 negative tests in a row. 10 tests later and she’s still positive
Cambridge, Ont. woman gets 10th positive COVID-19 test result as others deal with long bouts
Tracy Schofield has tested positive for COVID-19 10 times since the end of March, but she’s not the only one who has been dealing with a long bout of the virus.
Quoted from DNO:As Spock said “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”
Or something like that.
The whole of the population just can’t cater to that small % of people, it’s on those people to figure some safe ways.
It’s not perfect, or necessarily “right”.
But neither is everyone suffering for them.
At some point we reach this, " One death is a tragedy. One million deaths is a statistic."
Quote is attributed to a few. Joseph Stalin is reputed to have said this, but it is hard to source.
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/21/death-statistic/
I was told Stalin said something like this after the battle at Stalingrad where almost 2 million soldiers and Soviet citizens died.
I can't source it but recall reading somewhere that there were so many bodies that the Soviets just plowed them under.
Here is what is going on in Brazil. As Brazil's leader calls this virus "a little flu".
At some point you have to ask if mass cremation might be the better option, but would let the virus loose to float free?
Quoted from o-din:but will gladly accept whatever does come until it runs out.
You sound you like you would do really good on Wall Street.
Quoted from swampfire:they’re now estimating 178k deaths by August 4,
I missed that. But I figured it would happen sometime in the future. They just keep feeding us in little bits. Move the goal post and go on with life. I wonder what would be happening if is this was 2021?
When we get to 140K then will they push it out to 200K ?
We are 218 away from 100K.
Quoted from Who-Dey:I cant prove that to you just like you cant prove to me that it isnt happening but I believe it to be true.
1) I believe.
2) I think.
3) I will postulate.
4) It is my opinion.
If I ask you the time and you don't have a watch, your answer is limited to any of the above.
If I ask you the time and you look down at your atomic automatically calibrating watch, you can me with confidence what the time is down to the second. You can tell me you know with no shadow of doubt you KNOW what time it is.
Church goers will use #1 a lot. College professors will lean on #3 if you hit them with a hard question and they are trying to act college professor cool. Car salesmen will use #1, #2, and #4; # 3 is not in their vocabulary.
What you believe does not count for much. Too wishy washy.
On the right hand side of the paper, standing alone and by itself is.............................................................5) I know.
If you cannot manage #5 and offer substantiating evidence, it is all BS.
I imagine my church goer comment will bring on the down votes---- but think about it a little bit.
Quoted from twoplays25c:The Virus is GONE here at my nearest Lowes in PA this afternoon. Special Mennonite and Redneck COVID antigens at work, I suppose.
My county is still Red Phase requiring masks and distancing....these are 4 of the 6 in the custom paint line without masks....and they got served!! UGH.
Oh and the woman in the orange is pregnant, too. That kid is destined to inherit some awesome genes in the smarts department.[quoted image]
For some odd reason that pic reminds me of the song I took my wife's garter off to at our wedding reception.
Joe Cocker--You Can Leave Your Hat On
Quoted from cdnpinbacon:look doesn't matter anyhow when covered in mud. Kinda like it ...turn me loose cranked on the stereo !
Indeed! Got off the phone with the dude a while ago and he is real close by and is willing to deal. Going to take cash and look at it in the morning.
Haven't had a CJ-7 in many years since I sold my 401 powered 1986 back in the early 2000s. It was a beast! Could be a lot of fun to work on and play with since all my pinball machines are now shopped out and done, and there is no more exterior painting left to do on the house. I'm not sitting home crying now that the world has finally conformed to my way of living. Time to live it up and enjoy it how it is now before it goes back to the traffic jam rat race it used to be.
Quoted from cottonm4:1) I believe.
2) I think.
3) I will postulate.
4) It is my opinion.
If I ask you the time and you don't have a watch, your answer is limited to any of the above.
If I ask you the time and you look down at your atomic automatically calibrating watch, you can me with confidence what the time is down to the second. You can tell me you know with no shadow of doubt you KNOW what time it is.
Church goers will use #1 a lot. College professors will lean on #3 if you hit them with a hard question and they are trying to act college professor cool. Car salesmen will use #1, #2, and #4; # 3 is not in their vocabulary.
What you believe does not count for much. Too wishy washy.
On the right hand side of the paper, standing alone and by itself is..................................................................................5) I know.
If you cannot manage #5 and offer substantiating evidence, it is all BS.
I imagine my church goer comment will bring on the down votes---- but think about it a little bit.
Its happening trust me Cotton and only a fool would think otherwise. Anyway these hospitals can get more money they are going to do it, especially when the government has crushed their business. When have you ever known a hospital not to be a rip off?
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