(Topic ID: 264520)

The official Coronavirus containment thread


By Daditude

10 months ago



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10
#14651 7 months ago
Quoted from phil-lee:

Sir, remember around the same time you were discouraging mask-use. Things change.

What I discouraged was n-95 mask use by people to conserve the supply of n-95 masks for healthcare workers who need them most. I stand by that statement. So, while some things do change, that isn't one of them.

#14652 7 months ago

"I've been taking it for the last week and a half. A pill every day."

Vitamin D determines severity in COVID-19 so government advice needs to change, experts urge
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/05/200512134426.htm

I've seen this hypothesis show up quite frequently.

Fewer side effects than ingesting pool cleaning chemicals I guess?

12
#14653 7 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I'm not going to argue for hours on end and keep getting downvoted by all of these babies on here. The bottom line is there are a few hot spots but the majority of the country had empty hospital parking lots and nurses are getting laid off. The pandemic that they scared everyone to death with and crushed the greatest economy in the history of this country never happened.
Will it happen? I dont know but it hasnt happened yet and I hope that it doesnt. You do not know how accurate those death numbers are. It is a proven fact that hospitals are lying about Covid 19 deaths to get extra money.

I'm not gonna downvote you, I never use that feature on the forum anyways. But c'mon man you can't say things that are so easy to disprove like "greatest economy in the history of this country" and not expect to get called out. Not sure where you got that from but even the smallest amount of googlefu will bring up lots of examples with plenty of data to show how that is simply not true. The problem is once you start with such an obvious factual misstep like that, then the rest of your arguments becomes far more difficult to believe because any subsequent "facts" you bring up I have to presume were from the same flawed source.

Quoted from RTR:

All out cyber war to promote attitudes like this toward the pandemic in the USA. Divided we fall. It seems to be radicalizing people here, so beware!
About half of Twitter accounts discussing Coronavirus are bots. Most of the anti-shutdown/pandemic denying conspiracy mongering tweets are generated by Russian and Chinese propaganda operations, per the article.
From the article:
“Of the top 50 influential retweeters, 82% were likely bots
More than 100 types of inaccurate COVID-19 stories were identified by researchers, including misinformation about potential cures and conspiracy theories — such as hospitals being filled with mannequins or the coronavirus being linked to 5G towers. Researchers said bots are also dominating conversations about ending stay-at-home orders and "reopening America."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox5ny.com/news/nearly-half-of-twitter-accounts-discussing-coronavirus-are-likely-bots-researchers-say.amp

It's much easier to bend people to your will and have them do your bidding via keyboard, the future of war is misinformation. I mean why bother with obsolete bombs and bullets when a few lines of code can get a nation of millions to tear itself apart.

#14654 7 months ago

From the journal Science, an epidemiology study concluded that:
- 3.6% of infected individuals are hospitalized and 0.7% die, ranging from 0.001% in those <20 years of age (ya) to 10.1% in those >80ya.
- Across all ages, men are more likely to be hospitalized, enter intensive care, and die than women.
- The lockdown reduced the reproductive number from 2.90 to 0.67 (77% reduction).
- By 11 May 2020, when interventions are scheduled to be eased, we project 2.8 million (range: 1.8–4.7) people, or 4.4% (range: 2.8–7.2) of the population, will have been infected. Population immunity appears insufficient to avoid a second wave if all control measures are released at the end of the lockdown.

59
#14655 7 months ago

There's a phenomenon called the preparedness paradox. When you plan for something, and your plan works, people then tend to say the thing you were planning for wasn't a big deal.

Probably the most famous modern example is the Y2K bug. 2000 rolled around and nothing bad happened, so people said oh, it was just dumb media hype, and ignored the ridiculous amount of work programmers put in to make sure things didn't break. Nothing happened because people prepared.

The lockdowns aren't a magic bullet, and frankly most countries didn't prepare that well. But they stopped the worst case scenario. And now people want to get back to normal, because they're tired and stressed by what's going on. I don't blame anyone for being tired and stressed. But nothing has changed. We don't have a vaccine or a cure. The outcomes haven't been as scary as they could have been because we acted, not because the predictions were wrong. Those chart curves are ready to come roaring back if we let down our guard.

There is no pretending this is hype and nonsense. The virus doesn't care who you voted for, or which TV network you watch. Maybe you won't get sick, or maybe you will and it will be easy to get over it. I hope the best for everyone.

But the numbers don't lie. Virus theory isn't a fairy tale. Exponential spread happens in rural areas just like it does in big cities, it just might take a little longer to get going. The economy will get fucked by people dying and getting sick too, there's no avoiding it. If we want to bounce back faster then we gotta take the painful steps now, or it will just be worse in the long run. That's the lesson we learned from 1918.

I work in the media. Our science and health writers are all PhDs, they're taking this very seriously, and I promise you, they'd much rather be writing about anything else right now. People in our company have been laid off, our competitors are laying people off. Even the most basic common sense would tell you nobody is profiting from covering the facts.

I'm just putting people who are screaming about conspiracies on ignore. I don't need the headache, and I don't suggest arguing with them is worth the time. But I don't care who you vote for or what your politics are, I don't want you or your loved ones to be sick or die. Be mad, but be safe. Wear your damn mask to protect others from yourself, like they do to protect you, wash your hands, and have some common sense. This isn't the time to decide you're right and the rest of the entire world is wrong.

#14656 7 months ago
Quoted from Aurich:

There's a phenomenon called the preparedness paradox. When you plan for something, and your plan works, people then tend to say the thing you were planning for wasn't a big deal.
Probably the most famous modern example is the Y2K bug. 2000 rolled around and nothing bad happened, so people said oh, it was just dumb media hype, and ignored the ridiculous amount of work programmers put in to make sure things didn't break. Nothing happened because people prepared.
The lockdowns aren't a magic bullet, and frankly most countries didn't prepare that well. But they stopped the worst case scenario. And now people want to get back to normal, because they're tired and stressed by what's going on. I don't blame anyone for being tired and stressed. But nothing has changed. We don't have a vaccine or a cure. The outcomes haven't been as scary as they could have been because we acted, not because the predictions were wrong. Those chart curves are ready to come roaring back if we let down our guard.
There is no pretending this is hype and nonsense. The virus doesn't care who you voted for, or which TV network you watch. Maybe you won't get sick, or maybe you will and it will be easy to get over it. I hope the best for everyone.
But the numbers don't lie. Virus theory isn't a fairy tale. Exponential spread happens in rural areas just like it does in big cities, it just might take a little longer to get going. The economy will get fucked by people dying and getting sick too, there's no avoiding it. If we want to bounce back faster then we gotta take the painful steps now, or it will just be worse in the long run. That's the lesson we learned from 1918.
I work in the media. Our science and health writers are all PhDs, they're taking this very seriously, and I promise you, they'd much rather be writing about anything else right now. People in our company have been laid off, our competitors are laying people off. Even the most basic common sense would tell you nobody is profiting from covering the facts.
I'm just putting people who are screaming about conspiracies on ignore. I don't need the headache, and I don't suggest arguing with them is worth the time. But I don't care who you vote for or what your politics are, I don't want you or your loved ones to be sick or die. Be mad, but be safe. Wear your damn mask to protect others from yourself, like they do to protect you, wash your hands, and have some common sense. This isn't the time to decide you're right and the rest of the entire world is wrong.

I call that "better safe than sorry."

#14657 7 months ago
Quoted from Aurich:

There's a phenomenon called the preparedness paradox. When you plan for something, and your plan works, people then tend to say the thing you were planning for wasn't a big deal.
Probably the most famous modern example is the Y2K bug. 2000 rolled around and nothing bad happened, so people said oh, it was just dumb media hype, and ignored the ridiculous amount of work programmers put in to make sure things didn't break. Nothing happened because people prepared.
The lockdowns aren't a magic bullet, and frankly most countries didn't prepare that well. But they stopped the worst case scenario. And now people want to get back to normal, because they're tired and stressed by what's going on. I don't blame anyone for being tired and stressed. But nothing has changed. We don't have a vaccine or a cure. The outcomes haven't been as scary as they could have been because we acted, not because the predictions were wrong. Those chart curves are ready to come roaring back if we let down our guard.
There is no pretending this is hype and nonsense. The virus doesn't care who you voted for, or which TV network you watch. Maybe you won't get sick, or maybe you will and it will be easy to get over it. I hope the best for everyone.
But the numbers don't lie. Virus theory isn't a fairy tale. Exponential spread happens in rural areas just like it does in big cities, it just might take a little longer to get going. The economy will get fucked by people dying and getting sick too, there's no avoiding it. If we want to bounce back faster then we gotta take the painful steps now, or it will just be worse in the long run. That's the lesson we learned from 1918.
I work in the media. Our science and health writers are all PhDs, they're taking this very seriously, and I promise you, they'd much rather be writing about anything else right now. People in our company have been laid off, our competitors are laying people off. Even the most basic common sense would tell you nobody is profiting from covering the facts.
I'm just putting people who are screaming about conspiracies on ignore. I don't need the headache, and I don't suggest arguing with them is worth the time. But I don't care who you vote for or what your politics are, I don't want you or your loved ones to be sick or die. Be mad, but be safe. Wear your damn mask to protect others from yourself, like they do to protect you, wash your hands, and have some common sense. This isn't the time to decide you're right and the rest of the entire world is wrong.

Good post. I see some of these things and it just makes me sad. I remember in April Iceman was convinced the economy was going to come roaring back in June. I thought he was trolling but I think he really believed it.

I work in government and I have a PhD too. We are taking it VERY seriously. The facts are all out there no one is hiding anything.

#14658 7 months ago
Quoted from Aurich:

There's a phenomenon called the preparedness paradox. When you plan for something, and your plan works, people then tend to say the thing you were planning for wasn't a big deal.
Probably the most famous modern example is the Y2K bug. 2000 rolled around and nothing bad happened, so people said oh, it was just dumb media hype, and ignored the ridiculous amount of work programmers put in to make sure things didn't break. Nothing happened because people prepared.
The lockdowns aren't a magic bullet, and frankly most countries didn't prepare that well. But they stopped the worst case scenario. And now people want to get back to normal, because they're tired and stressed by what's going on. I don't blame anyone for being tired and stressed. But nothing has changed. We don't have a vaccine or a cure. The outcomes haven't been as scary as they could have been because we acted, not because the predictions were wrong. Those chart curves are ready to come roaring back if we let down our guard.
There is no pretending this is hype and nonsense. The virus doesn't care who you voted for, or which TV network you watch. Maybe you won't get sick, or maybe you will and it will be easy to get over it. I hope the best for everyone.
But the numbers don't lie. Virus theory isn't a fairy tale. Exponential spread happens in rural areas just like it does in big cities, it just might take a little longer to get going. The economy will get fucked by people dying and getting sick too, there's no avoiding it. If we want to bounce back faster then we gotta take the painful steps now, or it will just be worse in the long run. That's the lesson we learned from 1918.
I work in the media. Our science and health writers are all PhDs, they're taking this very seriously, and I promise you, they'd much rather be writing about anything else right now. People in our company have been laid off, our competitors are laying people off. Even the most basic common sense would tell you nobody is profiting from covering the facts.
I'm just putting people who are screaming about conspiracies on ignore. I don't need the headache, and I don't suggest arguing with them is worth the time. But I don't care who you vote for or what your politics are, I don't want you or your loved ones to be sick or die. Be mad, but be safe. Wear your damn mask to protect others from yourself, like they do to protect you, wash your hands, and have some common sense. This isn't the time to decide you're right and the rest of the entire world is wrong.

We were prepared, so the first wave wasn't as bad as it could have been. I do agree with your statement in this point but not in: "But nothing has changed." Something has changed!!! We have won time and we now know more about the virus. There is a big public awareness. And now with the time we have won and new wisdom, it is time to put away "the hammer" and start to "dance". And right now is the time for everybody to discuss the way the dance should go on. We all have to analyse what was most effective and what could be open up again. To many people are still locked down in fear. I don't want to live like this. Our society and economy can only survive if we use our minds to fight for as much freedom as possible. I am always very pessimistic for the future, but I would never let the fear cloud my mind. We have to be smart in the way we adapt to the new situation. It is not possible to be 100% safe. Many people can't live if the economy and life is totaly locked down. It's stupid to ignore the virus, but it would be just as stupid if we did not use every chance to open up what is relatively save.
In my opinion this is not only a fight against the virus, this is also a fight between different systems and ways of life. And there are different possibilities to shape the future of this crisis.

#14659 7 months ago
Quoted from darkpinball:

That's partly correct, our factory was closed down for five weeks, mainly because lack of parts supply but also for social distancing, our region has been spared so far with 19 death.
There are a few mild laws to keep the spread down but most of whats done is made volunterly, media has done a great job to create head lines about Sweden, the herd immunity thing and that we basically isnt doing anything about the infection.
We have a long time ahead of us to deal with this shit, flatten the curve to help healthcare manage the situation and protect the old and vulnerable is the strategy here but that has shown not to be so easy with the nursing homes.
Hopefully our neighbour countries will do a better job with that, they have all been in some kind of lock down and started to relive the restrictions recently so we are probably a bit further on the curve compared to them and they are about half of our population.
Time will tell but 90% of the Swedes is doing their best to handle this situation and follow the recommendations by the health departement.
On the positive side the urge to improve health has been a wake up call as we se roughly 10x more joggers passing by our house nowadays.

Thanks for that . Good to hear from someone who's actually there .
Best of luck with everything .
Stay safe .

#14660 7 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I'm not going to argue for hours on end and keep getting downvoted by all of these babies on here

Can you put a line In the sand for us, so that we’ll know when you’ll be on the team “Give a fuck”? You don’t want to argue for hours on end at 100000 dead, this is still a nothing burger for you, but when will it be enough dead for you to care? Cane we count on your support at 500000? How about a million if the total ever gets there?

I guess I’m asking where the goalpost Is for you, so that if we cross it, you’ll finally have to admit this is a problem. Is that 2 million dead? Dose it have to kill one of your parents to be real? How much death is enough for you to pull your head out of the sand?

I don’t care what your number is, but I’d like you to make a statement about when (if we get there) that this becomes real for you

Don’t take this as a personal attack, it’s an honest question, I’m curious. Personally I don’t think 6500 deaths in Canada is a lot yet that’s 0.02% of our population. USA is at 0.03% of your population. If Canada reaches 100000 that will be devastating to us. I feel I’m more concerned they you are even though my country is surviving this better for the time being.

17
#14661 7 months ago
Quoted from DaWezl:

It turns out that I’ve very likely been dealing with Covid-19 but didn’t know it. I had a slightly suspicious unspecified viral sinus infection after traveling at the end of January, and there were a couple of things out of the ordinary—I had a slightly unusual degree of chest tightness and the infection kept lingering on. Still, I get really bad illness-induced asthma after even the tiniest of colds which can last for months, so chest tightness and the dry cough that hung around wasn’t particularly noteworthy, and no one other than my husband got sick. It wasn’t until the other day when I noticed I was getting a pox-like rash and I stumbled across this story that I was like “Oh DAMN! I might have actually had it!”
https://time.com/5827912/coronavirus-skin-rashes/?amp=true
My doctor agrees that it is VERY likely Covid-19 (I’ve even since developed one little “Covid Toe“), but told me to wait to be tested until there are widely available antibody tests. While I’m not completely asymptomatic, I definitely have had pretty much the mildest case I think you can have without being symptom-free. Even so, there are some definite things that I think are hugely important to consider when everyone is shouting to reopen everything.
1. My “almost symptomless” case still drove me to go to the doctor twice. To put this in context, I am the sort of person who would rather google “self-amputation” than have to go to a doctor. Even if the vast majority of people get mild cases like me, that’s still a huge additional burden on health care systems beyond the critical cases, and we still don’t have enough PPE for the doctors!
2. This virus LINGERS! I’ve felt “off” for essentially 3 months. Not so off that I couldn’t work and I even ran a half marathon 2 weeks ago, but I’ve spent a lot of this time feeling like I was maybe getting sick again.
3. I’m hugely lucky that I don’t seem to have been a “super spreader”. I was with my elderly parents as I started feeling ill, and told them not to hug/kiss me, but didn’t take any additional precautions with them. I was at work for 6 weeks surrounded by 600 or so people. I was in multiple gyms, working out on treadmills and taking classes. No one other than my husband has gotten sick that I know of.
4. I’m concerned that I still don’t have immunity against the more virulent strains. And given how this strain made me feel, I really REALLY don’t want to deal with anything worse!
I’m not against a slow, methodical reopening, but I really feel like we really need to make sure even the regular doctor offices have the supplies they need to assess an increase in minor cases before we go crazy opening up all the things. And for the people who are still steadfastly in the “We don’t close for the flu!” camp, that standard is at least consistent—we don’t close for the flu, but we make sure the doctors have the supplies they need on hand to treat it.
The articles I’ve read say that it’s mostly 20-30 year olds who show these symptoms, so at least I can say I have the blood of a much younger woman, even if the rest of me feels my age!

It’s been almost a month since I posted this description of my “super mild” case. Guess what? I’m still experiencing occasional chest tightness and cough, almost 17 weeks after the date of my likely exposure. I’ve never had a “mild” cold or flu hang around or keep my asthma flaring up this long—not even my 2018 post-Pintastic walking pneumonia which took a month to get under control. In some ways my case was “no big deal” bc I never missed a day of work and I thankfully didn’t spread it beyond hubby, but I’ve spent FOUR months dragging this thing along with me.

It’s real easy to look at the worst case scenarios and think that since the odds are “low” that you’ll get hit that badly, you don’t need to worry about it. Well, the odds are MUCH higher that you’ll experience something closer to what I’ve been dealing with. And yes, it isn’t devastating...but it’s definitely mentally exhausting to constantly feel slightly under the weather for months on end.

I’m not against slow, measured progress to reopening things. But instead we have states going straight from full lockdown to allowing crowds to swarm to parks and beaches, or states using the nation-wide rates to justify reopening when their own infection rates are still increasing. Meanwhile we STILL haven’t gotten our PPE supply chain fully re-established and really don’t have a cohesive structure for nation-wide testing and contact tracing. So we still don’t have any way to isolate outbreaks or fully protect the doctors treating them. I just personally find it ridiculous that we can’t maintain some strict precautions even long enough to get those two things under control to make it safer for all. And yeah, you might not need major medical treatment if you do end up coming down with it, but feeling crappy for a third of the year is still pretty damn sucky in its own right.

17
#14662 7 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Nope you are still wrong because we have these little satellite emergency rooms all around us that are emergency only and they dont do procedures of any kind there and the parking lots are empty. Very very little activity going on at all. If this virus was making everyone sick the parking lots would be full.

So you are mad that all the quarantine and shutdown that we went through actually stopped the virus from decimating us worse than it did? Your statement is the equivalent of saying "I don't know anyone who is hungry, so hunger isn't a problem."

#14663 7 months ago

A few years back Camp Pendelton put a flag for every soldier from there who died in the Iraq war along Interstate 5 from their Oceanside gate towards San Clemente. It had a powerful effect on me. And most likely anyone who saw it. So many flags. The flags were past the Navy Swift Intruders Assault Craft Unit base. (Cool slogan, "No beach out of reach") Thank you to all veterans.

#14664 7 months ago
Quoted from DaWezl:

It’s been almost a month since I posted this description of my “super mild” case. Guess what? I’m still experiencing occasional chest tightness and cough, almost 17 weeks after the date of my likely exposure. I’ve never had a “mild” cold or flu hang around or keep my asthma flaring up this long—not even my 2018 post-Pintastic walking pneumonia which took a month to get under control. In some ways my case was “no big deal” bc I never missed a day of work and I thankfully didn’t spread it beyond hubby, but I’ve spent FOUR months dragging this thing along with me.
It’s real easy to look at the worst case scenarios and think that since the odds are “low” that you’ll get hit that badly, you don’t need to worry about it. Well, the odds are MUCH higher that you’ll experience something closer to what I’ve been dealing with. And yes, it isn’t devastating...but it’s definitely mentally exhausting to constantly feel slightly under the weather for months on end.
I’m not against slow, measured progress to reopening things. But instead we have states going straight from full lockdown to allowing crowds to swarm to parks and beaches, or states using the nation-wide rates to justify reopening when their own infection rates are still increasing. Meanwhile we STILL haven’t gotten our PPE supply chain fully re-established and really don’t have a cohesive structure for nation-wide testing and contact tracing. So we still don’t have any way to isolate outbreaks or fully protect the doctors treating them. I just personally find it ridiculous that we can’t maintain some strict precautions even long enough to get those two things under control to make it safer for all. And yeah, you might not need major medical treatment if you do end up coming down with it, but feeling crappy for a third of the year is still pretty damn sucky in its own right.

A great reminder there are more available categories than alive and dead post Covid sickness.

So much information coming out about post virus issues experienced by a wide variety of people and no real way to predict who gets what. I know that I don’t want this and would much rather have a vaccine when available.

One of many reasons why I think the sacrifices we have made will be worth it.

#14665 7 months ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

Please provide the "proof" you have of this.

I have a cousin who is an ER doctor. A few weeks ago he said the hospital administration was ordering staff to classify all causes of death as covid-19, even if they obviously were not. I was a bit skeptical, but then I heard of other hospitals doing similar things a little while later.

Maybe it wasn't *all* hospitals that were doing that, but it appears there may have been a few of them.

I'm not sure if those calls have been reversed now after autopsies & investigations since it's been a few weeks, but it at least seemed to be happening for a time.

#14666 7 months ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

I have a cousin who is an ER doctor. A few weeks ago he said the hospital administration was ordering staff to classify all causes of death as covid-19, even if they obviously were not. I was a bit skeptical, but then I heard of other hospitals doing similar things a little while later.
Maybe it wasn't *all* hospitals that were doing that, but it appears there may have been a few of them.
I'm not sure if those calls have been reversed now after autopsies & investigations since it's been a few weeks, but it at least seemed to be happening for a time.

Counterpoint: I have a wife who is a doctor that says no one in her network has been pressured or told to classify all causes of death as covid-19.

#14667 7 months ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

I have a cousin who is an ER doctor. A few weeks ago he said the hospital administration was ordering staff to classify all causes of death as covid-19, even if they obviously were not. I was a bit skeptical, but then I heard of other hospitals doing similar things a little while later.
Maybe it wasn't *all* hospitals that were doing that, but it appears there may have been a few of them.
I'm not sure if those calls have been reversed now after autopsies & investigations since it's been a few weeks, but it at least seemed to be happening for a time.

“All causes of death” is a pretty strong statement. Are you sure it wasn’t just all flu like illnesses that didn’t test as flu? Or did this also include gun shot wounds, car wrecks, etc.?

#14668 7 months ago

Current CFR is 3.4 FYI. Use 75% infection rate for rough Herd immunity guesstimate.

Even if CFR drops significantly...still ouch.

2A4C06CA-66C9-453B-976C-9197A5B67CCD.png
#14669 7 months ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

Please provide the "proof" you have of this.

Not about the payments or money for these deaths but...

#14670 7 months ago

Quite a bit of the upcoding news seems to come from a single interview of a Minnesota doctor on the Laura Ingraham show. While what he said is partially true, it does not mean that hospitals are encouraged to list ‘all deaths’ as Covid.

The fact check on this is really long and good reading, but here is an excerpt:

“The CDC guidance says that officials should report deaths in which the patient tested positive for COVID-19 — or, if a test isn’t available, “if the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty.” It further indicates that if a “definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID-19 on a death certificate as ‘probable’ or ‘presumed.'”

Here is the article: https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/

#14671 7 months ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

I have a cousin who is an ER doctor. A few weeks ago he said the hospital administration was ordering staff to classify all causes of death as covid-19, even if they obviously were not. I was a bit skeptical, but then I heard of other hospitals doing similar things a little while later.
Maybe it wasn't *all* hospitals that were doing that, but it appears there may have been a few of them.
I'm not sure if those calls have been reversed now after autopsies & investigations since it's been a few weeks, but it at least seemed to be happening for a time.

If that is true (and it’s a BIG if), that hospital will be seeing a RAC audit soon. Medicare has suspended the audits temporarily during the pandemic but I guarantee you they will be back in full force in a few months.

I’d honestly check with your ER doc friend again, I find it hard to believe that any hospital would tell staff to classify every death as COVID. There may have been a statement that a death from a flu like illness that tested negative or the tests were still pending should be classified as COVID but ANY death? Hard to believe that.

#14672 7 months ago
Quoted from tiltmonster:

Not about the payments or money for these deaths but...

Correct, COVID can be a cause of death with many other illnesses. If you have severe congestive heart failure or lung cancer and die with COVID that is classified as a COVID death.

That’s nothing out of the ordinary, if you were to die of a pulmonary embolism or pneumonia with lung cancer your primary cause of death on the death certificate is the pulmonary embolism or pneumonia. Lung cancer is listed as a contributing factor on the death certificate.

It’s not a conspiracy.

#14674 7 months ago
Quoted from RTR:

“All causes of death” is a pretty strong statement. Are you sure it wasn’t just all flu like illnesses that didn’t test as flu? Or did this also include gun shot wounds, car wrecks, etc.?

I didn't ask about physical trauma, so maybe not everything.

Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

If that is true (and it’s a BIG if), that hospital will be seeing a RAC audit soon. Medicare has suspended the audits temporarily during the pandemic but I guarantee you they will be back in full force in a few months.

I’d honestly check with your ER doc friend again, I find it hard to believe that any hospital would tell staff to classify every death as COVID. There may have been a statement that a death from a flu like illness that tested negative or the tests were still pending should be classified as COVID but ANY death? Hard to believe that.

Hence my skepticism about it.

-3
#14675 7 months ago

I am so grateful for this panel of Doctors and covid professionals on here. Be safe everyone we got this.

#14676 7 months ago
Quoted from Luckydogg420:

Can you put a line In the sand for us, so that we’ll know when you’ll be on the team “Give a fuck”? You don’t want to argue for hours on end at 100000 dead, this is still a nothing burger for you, but when will it be enough dead for you to care? Cane we count on your support at 500000? How about a million if the total ever gets there?
I guess I’m asking where the goalpost Is for you, so that if we cross it, you’ll finally have to admit this is a problem. Is that 2 million dead? Dose it have to kill one of your parents to be real? How much death is enough for you to pull your head out of the sand?
I don’t care what your number is, but I’d like you to make a statement about when (if we get there) that this becomes real for you
Don’t take this as a personal attack, it’s an honest question, I’m curious. Personally I don’t think 6500 deaths in Canada is a lot yet that’s 0.02% of our population. USA is at 0.03% of your population. If Canada reaches 100000 that will be devastating to us. I feel I’m more concerned they you are even though my country is surviving this better for the time being.

One person dead is too many for me if that answers your question. I care about people dying but we cant drive ourselves into a economic collapse over this because then you will have anarchy in the streets and many more people dying from starvation, diseases and murder than what this virus is causing. Likee i said a million times befor, we need to protect the groups who are vulnerable and the rest of the people have got to go to work. You cant just shut the economy down because if there is no money people cant buy food and other basic needs. We have to work folks, what don’t you understand about that?

#14678 7 months ago

Kansas is opening up and Trump said he wanted all churches to open "right now" as a sop to the religious community.

1) 20 miles south of me is the Kansas Star casino that is trumpeting on its signs that is now open. Going southbound I drive past the west side and the parking lot has a few cars in the parking lot. This makes the place look busy. Going northbound on the way home I pass by on the east side ( Going south is a 2 lane highway. North is the faster toll turnpike. The south, east, and north parking lots are empty. So there are a few adventuresome souls getting their gambling Jones satisfied.

2) This was Sunday morning at a church right down the street from me. This church as no parking lot and on Sunday mornings this entire intersection is packed on both sides of the street in all directions.

There are 4 cars only.

It remains to be seen if the church business will pick up as time passes.

I also drove around a little bit and went passed two other churches. There were a few cars in the parking lot. Both of these churches are sizable and have huge parking lots. So, maybe, just maybe, many of the faithful are deciding the best course of action is to ignore Trump and not tempt God.

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#14679 7 months ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

Correct, COVID can be a cause of death with many other illnesses. If you have severe congestive heart failure or lung cancer and die with COVID that is classified as a COVID death.
That’s nothing out of the ordinary, if you were to die of a pulmonary embolism or pneumonia with lung cancer your primary cause of death on the death certificate is the pulmonary embolism or pneumonia. Lung cancer is listed as a contributing factor on the death certificate.
It’s not a conspiracy.

I merely posted a video and didn't express an opinion one way or another however, I do find it odd that if you die for any other reason and have tested positive for Covid that it's considered a Covid death. The example you provided isn't a fair comparison... what if they had lung cancer and were given 2 weeks to live they sadly passed in that 2 week time but then found they had tested positive for Covid, so in that case it would be listed as a Covid death by her own words

10
#14680 7 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

ikee i said a million times befor, we need to protect the groups who are vulnerable and the rest of the people have got to go to work. You cant just shut the economy down because if there is no money people cant buy food and other basic needs. We have to work folks, what don’t you understand about that?

You also can't just lock away vulnerable people from the rest of society. They have spouses, parents, children, siblings, elders, caregivers, grandkids, and so on.

Some of these vulnerable people might also be productive members of society, despite their age or health issues.

It's not uncommon to see retirees volunteering or working in various areas in society, or being involved in their communities. Sometimes these people can be cornerstones in their communities. I knew a librarian years ago who was like this.

#14681 7 months ago

I don't believe scientists or doctors! I prefer to get my "FACTS" from Q, Twitter, Facebook and OANN / Fox News "commentators".

“So overall it seems likely that while a few individuals who would have died anyway are getting called COVID deaths, there are [many] more deaths caused by COVID that are not being attributed to COVID,” Lipsitch said. And it is “simply not true that anyone who dies of something other than a car accident or gunshot wound is attributed to COVID.”

Social Media Posts Make Baseless Claim on COVID-19 Death Toll
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/social-media-posts-make-baseless-claim-on-covid-19-death-toll/

A global conspiracy perpetrated by doctors from countries around the world inflating their COVID-19 death counts, just to make 1 individual "look bad"?
merlin_170843694_18177b2a-d94c-4dcc-973b-11407cd6212d-superJumbo (resized).jpg

#14682 7 months ago
Quoted from tiltmonster:

I merely posted a video and didn't express an opinion one way or another however, I do find it odd that if you die for any other reason and have tested positive for Covid that it's considered a Covid death. The example you provided isn't a fair comparison... what if they had lung cancer and were given 2 weeks to live they sadly passed in that 2 week time but then found they had tested positive for Covid, so in that case it would be listed as a Covid death by her own words

That’s correct. The cause of death is the IMMEDIATE cause. If you have terminal lung cancer, get acutely ill, die and test positive for COVID then that’s cause of death is COVID. Other diagnoses that contribute to death are listed as well but they are not the specific cause.

Again, this rule is not specific to COVID. Another example: patient has a massive heart attack, goes on the vent and dies of a lethal arrhythmia a few hours later. Cause of death is the arrhythmia and the contributing factor is acute myocardial infarction.

Now, when a government agency looks at death certificates to come up with statistics on how many people die of heart disease that death is counted as a heart disease death because they look at the whole death certificate, not just the primary cause.

#14684 7 months ago

My fear who-dey is that the economic collapse you try to avoid by keeping things open will happen regardless. The only difference is the disease body count.

Damned if you, damned if you don’t.

Hope you are right and I am wrong on that.

#14685 7 months ago

Bottom line is this - the "facts" we know for sure are: people are dying for a virus that didn't exist 6 months ago, the Coronavirus is real, shutting things down has destroyed a lot of lives, the economy will suffer for years because of this, and there have been and will continue to be a lot of mistakes made in the way things were handled.

We can debate what should have been done - what should be done next - etc. But in my eyes one thing is really pretty simple --- if people would use a little common sense wear a mask when in public, limit their exposure to other people, stay 6 feet apart, and stop doing "stupid" a lot less people will likely die from this Coronavirus.

Only time will tell how bad this actually gets but using just a little common sense will save lives. And some of the people saved might be people in your "inner circle" that you really care about. EVERY death has an impact on a lot of people and every life counts so why not do all we can to help reduce the number of people who will die from this?

#14686 7 months ago

All of this bickering and bantering prove a few things.

No one has the answers.
No decision will be 100%.
When you start messing with a man's money and food, the situation unravels in short order.
Rational thought gets kicked to the curb.

#14687 7 months ago
Quoted from RTR:

“All causes of death” is a pretty strong statement. Are you sure it wasn’t just all flu like illnesses that didn’t test as flu? Or did this also include gun shot wounds, car wrecks, etc.?

How about a .55 BAC alcohol poisoning?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/denver.cbslocal.com/2020/05/14/coronavirus-montezuma-county-coroner-alcohol-poisoning-covid-death/amp/

#14688 7 months ago

We’re approaching half a million “recovered”, so I wonder when we’ll start to see studies on mid-to-long-term effects. What’s the average timeline for returning to pre-infection health? What percentage of people take over 3 months to recover? What percentage recover in a few weeks with no lasting damage? And we should be able to see this broken down by age and comorbidity.

This data is important for opening back up too. People are more willing to take a risk if it’s a known risk, even if that’s a greater risk than an unknown one.

#14689 7 months ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

You also can't just lock away vulnerable people from the rest of society. They have spouses, parents, children, siblings, elders, caregivers, grandkids, and so on.
Some of these vulnerable people might also be productive members of society, despite their age or health issues.
It's not uncommon to see retirees volunteering or working in various areas in society, or being involved in their communities. Sometimes these people can be cornerstones in their communities. I knew a librarian years ago who was like this.

Nobody is forcibly locked away. If you are 100 years old and want to go to Wal Mart and put yourself at risk then you can. Our constitutional rights gives them that right.

#14691 7 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Nobody is forcibly locked away. If you are 100 years old and want to go to Wal Mart and put yourself at risk then you can. Our constitutional rights gives them that right.

What about a 25 yr old diabetic that needs to see their endocrinologist? Or the 50 yr old with stents that needs an eye exam? Or the truck drivers that need their wellness exams for dmv certification that have a host of managed health issues. How do you propose we protect them as they go about trying to manage their health?

#14692 7 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Nobody is forcibly locked away. If you are 100 years old and want to go to Wal Mart and put yourself at risk then you can. Our constitutional rights gives them that right.

I'm not sure that I understand your line of reasoning:

Quoted from Who-Dey:

we need to protect the groups who are vulnerable and the rest of the people have got to go to work.

How do you anticipate protecting vulnerable groups if people out in the workforce interact with vulnerable groups out in public and in their private/home lives?

There are many mixed households out there.

#14694 7 months ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

I'm not sure that I understand your line of reasoning:

How do you anticipate protecting vulnerable groups if people out in the workforce interact with vulnerable groups out in public and in their private/home lives?
There are many mixed households out there.

You just have to the best that you can do.

#14695 7 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

One person dead is too many

Great agreement totally and I like to dream to, but try to be realistic, globally were close to 350k. USA is 100k of that.

Quoted from Who-Dey:

I care about people dying but we cant drive ourselves into a economic collapse over this

100% with ya here. But I dont think the main focus should be on the bottom line.

Quoted from Who-Dey:

because then you will have anarchy in the streets and many more people dying from starvation, diseases and murder than what this virus is causing

currently.

"Many more" ok, covid is at 100k in 3 months. How bad are the starvation, disease and murder in your area? Maybe we should revitalize this point in another 3 months.

Quoted from Who-Dey:

You cant just shut the economy down because if there is no money people cant buy food and other basic needs. We have to work folks, what don’t you understand about that?

I agree you just cant shut down the economy, but only essential services should be running now. You have to do your best to help the weak and vulnerable in you society. Maybe a more socialist view is a solution you could use to look after peoples basic needs like food and shelter and health. The usa is trying to balance a balloon on a pin head and any wrong slip and it could pop.

Comple shutdown isn't an option. But open beaches shouldn't be either. When we get to the next round of lockdowns hopefully things will be done better.

Liquor stores are open but AA is closed. Crazy

#14696 7 months ago
Quoted from Oaken:

What about a 25 yr old diabetic that needs to see their endocrinologist? Or the 50 yr old with stents that needs an eye exam? Or the truck drivers that need their wellness exams for dmv certification that have a host of managed health issues. How do you propose we protect them as they go about trying to manage their health?

I don't know brother, i don't have all the answers unfortunately. There is probably no way to be totally safe for anyone. We just have to do the best that we can do and hope for the best. I need some dental work right now and a haircut and im kind of afraid to go. I will have to chance it at some point.

#14697 7 months ago
Quoted from swampfire:

We’re approaching half a million “recovered

The more I see the recovered number go up the more I feel that we will be less reliant on a vaccine.

If one is developed, I wont be first in line. And if the recovered rate is high enough I probably wont get it. I also dont get the seasonal flu shot. So dont listen to me.

#14698 7 months ago
Quoted from Oaken:

What about a 25 yr old diabetic that needs to see their endocrinologist? Or the 50 yr old with stents that needs an eye exam? Or the truck drivers that need their wellness exams for dmv certification that have a host of managed health issues. How do you propose we protect them as they go about trying to manage their health?

As Spock said “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”
Or something like that.
The whole of the population just can’t cater to that small % of people, it’s on those people to figure some safe ways.
It’s not perfect, or necessarily “right”.
But neither is everyone suffering for them.

#14699 7 months ago

Even I am not immune to this illness after being home for over two months. Not the virus, but so sick, I am contemplating buying this.

My dad was a TV repairman, I can fix it.

orangecounty.craigslist.org link

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