(Topic ID: 264520)

The official Coronavirus containment thread


By Daditude

10 months ago



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There are 21316 posts in this topic. You are on page 199 of 427.
#9901 9 months ago
Quoted from DCP:

Caution! PM 2.5 is not equivalent to N95...N95 filters 95% of particles 0.3 microns or larger. PM 2.5 means 2.5 micron particles can get through.

Also don’t get the Patriot’s version if you are a healthcare worker:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/2020/04/12/metro/medical-workers-share-concerns-about-masks-delivered-by-patriots-plane/%3foutputType=amp

“at least some and possibly many of the roughly one-million protective masks on the team plane were not the time-tested, industry-standard N95 masks that medical workers wear when treating coronavirus patients. Rather, they were a Chinese version known as a KN95 mask that some hospitals in Boston and beyond have so far declined to use and remain reluctant about today.”

The “K” may or may not stand for knockoff.

#9902 9 months ago

There has to be something more at play here than just the lockdown.

"California is projected to reach its peak for COVID-19 deaths on Wednesday, with an estimated 66 deaths"

https://news.yahoo.com/california-days-away-projected-coronavirus-015652287.html

14
#9903 9 months ago

An example of why doctors recommend studying a drug and it’s side effects before recommending it for widespread use:

https://nypost.com/2020/04/13/chloroquine-study-nixed-after-patients-experience-heart-problems/?utm_source=url_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons

#9904 9 months ago

Unknown (resized).jpg

#9905 9 months ago
Quoted from DCP:

Caution! PM 2.5 is not equivalent to N95...N95 filters 95% of particles 0.3 microns or larger. PM 2.5 means 2.5 micron particles can get through.

It’s better than nothing I guess. And probably better than wearing something homemade. We are all screwed anyway. The virus is even smaller than what an N95 protects from. It’s .125 microns.

#9906 9 months ago
158680555050046900703 (resized).jpg
#9907 9 months ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

I see the daytime political pissing is in full swing again. So let’s get back to Tiger King![quoted image]

New Episode!!!!! Though it is just an aftershow, so I doubt it will be any fun. But I'll still grab some whisky and throw some shot glasses. Yee Haw!

#9908 9 months ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

An example of why doctors recommend studying a drug and it’s side effects before recommending it for widespread use:

And also see how much kickback they stand to get from the pharmaceutical companies producing them.

18
#9909 9 months ago
Quoted from DaveH:

I expect communist regimes to lie. I expect them to do whatever they think will keep them in power. Attempting to point out their culpability in this is simply redirection. Hey, look over there, "they" caused this. If you study history, you will find examples of that

Basically, this. China's responsibility is for China. We had plenty of information to make our own decisions. Blaming China for the actions of our own leaders is f'n stupid.

#9910 9 months ago
Quoted from DaveH:

New Episode!!!!! Though it is just an aftershow, so I doubt it will be any fun. But I'll still grab some whisky and throw some shot glasses. Yee Haw!

Like so much of the past month or so...it ain’t the best but it’s better than nothing.

#9911 9 months ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

3. We can Google check articles and EVERYBODY did not do enough early on to stem this. This is not just the US, but about every country, with some doing better than others.

Quoted from jimjim66:

5. It wasn't just countries that got it wrong, CDC, WHO, are IHME are all experts at this and have failed miserably.

wait what
*points frantically at the concrete data from all the countries that did react to this early on*
As well, CDC + WHO all updated their outlooks on it on a daily basis to reflect the latest research and expert opinions. Just because the pandemic spread doesn't mean these global organizations are automatically discredited. Just because the pandemic spread doesn't mean that many countries didn't listen to expert advice and expediently implement the policies that would save thousands of lives .

There's an urge to say "whoops everyone messed up here" and it's absolutely irresponsible and only serves to protect the people in power who tried their hardest to ignore this in hopes it would evaporate.

#9912 9 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I've typed several times that when Ohio is being more proactive than one of the biggest states in the country with the biggest city in the U.S., that's a problem. Frankly I expected more from New York city and state.

Hate to burst your bubble, Levi, but Ohio *is* one of the biggest states in America. #7 of 50 last time I checked. And yes, it's nice having competent leadership. I knew we were in reasonably good hands when DeWine had the balls to shut down the Arnold Sports Classic way before anyone else was taking this thing seriously.

#9913 9 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

There has to be something more at play here than just the lockdown.
"California is projected to reach its peak for COVID-19 deaths on Wednesday, with an estimated 66 deaths"
https://news.yahoo.com/california-days-away-projected-coronavirus-015652287.html

This may have something to do with it:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/the-10-healthiest-states-in-the-us?slide=11

We're the #1 healthiest state as far as stuff like infant mortality rates, smoking and obesity. The south doesn't seem to be fairing as well:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/04/coronavirus-unique-threat-south-young-people/609241/

...where they coincidentally have far more health issues, even younger folk. The lockdown prevents the spread but if you still get it then it's your body's turn to do it's thing. Looks like the odds are stacked against you if you aren't healthy.

#9914 9 months ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/13/politics/theodore-roosevelt-sailor-coronavirus/index.html
Bunch of young folks on that ship. If "military secrecy" wasn't getting it done, God bless Capt. Crozier for getting the attention so desperately needed.

Anybody notice the ex-secnav has a head full of hair implants?

Chief-of-Navy-Says-Theodore-Roosevelt’s-Fired-Captain-‘Threatened’-Crew-With-Leaked-Corona-Virus-Letter (resized).jpg

-1
#9915 9 months ago
Quoted from cait001:

There's an urge to say "whoops everyone messed up here"

! More than an urge, there’s likely a messaging team crafting that narrative deep in the bowels of 1600 Penn and distributing it to media.

#9916 9 months ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Also don’t get the Patriot’s version if you are a healthcare worker:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/2020/04/12/metro/medical-workers-share-concerns-about-masks-delivered-by-patriots-plane/%3foutputType=amp
“at least some and possibly many of the roughly one-million protective masks on the team plane were not the time-tested, industry-standard N95 masks that medical workers wear when treating coronavirus patients. Rather, they were a Chinese version known as a KN95 mask that some hospitals in Boston and beyond have so far declined to use and remain reluctant about today.”
The “K” may or may not stand for knockoff.

According to 3M KN95 is equivalent to N95 in terms of performance. KN95 is just the Chinese equivalent to the US NIOSH N95.

"Based on this comparison, it is reasonable to consider China KN95, AS/NZ P2, Korea 1st Class, and Japan DS FFRs as
“equivalent” to US NIOSH N95 and European FFP2 respirators, for filtering non-oil-based particles such as those resulting
from wildfires, PM 2.5 air pollution, volcanic eruptions, or bioaerosols (e.g. viruses). "

Source: https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1791500O/comparison-ffp2-kn95-n95-filtering-facepiece-respirator-classes-tb.pdf

Now whether these masks are actually made to those standards is another question.

It's kind of like DIN vs ISO vs JIS standards.

#9917 9 months ago
Quoted from Reality_Studio:

This may have something to do with it

Another thing is we don't stay cooped up all winter breathing our own carbon dioxide in lieu of opening the windows and freezing to death.

Dryer weather as well.

It could still hit us like a landslide over the next couple months, but I am still open to the idea it might have got here late last year. In fact, how could it have not have?

#9918 9 months ago
Quoted from Geteos:

According to 3M KN95 is equivalent to N95 in terms of performance

Need to tell the hospital that I guess.

Maybe it’s like Sorny, Panaphonics, and Magnetbox. Just as good as originals?

#9919 9 months ago
Quoted from Geteos:

According to 3M KN95 is equivalent to N95 in terms of performance. KN95 is just the Chinese equivalent to the US NIOSH N95.
"Based on this comparison, it is reasonable to consider China KN95, AS/NZ P2, Korea 1st Class, and Japan DS FFRs as
“equivalent” to US NIOSH N95 and European FFP2 respirators, for filtering non-oil-based particles such as those resulting
from wildfires, PM 2.5 air pollution, volcanic eruptions, or bioaerosols (e.g. viruses). "
Source: https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1791500O/comparison-ffp2-kn95-n95-filtering-facepiece-respirator-classes-tb.pdf
Now whether these masks are actually made to those standards is another question.
It's kind of like DIN vs ISO vs JIS standards.

They are supposed to start using the KN95 here in healthcare settings because of shortages but there are concerns over counterfeits. So they are requiring certificates of origin.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/04/03/health/coronavirus-n95-kn95-masks.amp.html

#9920 9 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

And also see how much kickback they stand to get from the pharmaceutical companies producing them.

Hate the pharma industry all you want but they will be the ones that eventually develop a vaccine and/or treatment and get us out of this mess.

#9921 9 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

And also see how much kickback they stand to get from the pharmaceutical companies producing them.

Doctors don’t get a kickback from pharmaceutical companies.

#9922 9 months ago

The president tweeted today that the decision to "open up the states" is his to make, not the governors'. But then he goes on to say that he'll make a decision "in conjunction with the governors". Confusing tweet. Anyway, I could see this being a problem if say, the virus really flares up in Florida and Desantis decides to keep things closed longer than the president would like.

-1
#9923 9 months ago

CNN says the true fatality rate is unknow, unclear...

#9924 9 months ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

Doctors don’t get a kickback from pharmaceutical companies.

*anymore

#9925 9 months ago

cool cool coll

Wildfires 'edge closer to Chernobyl nuclear plant'
Forest fires that have been burning for several days in northern Ukraine are now no more than a few kilometres from the abandoned Chernobyl nuclear plant, reports say.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52274242

An Extremely Normal Weekend of Pestilence, Locusts, a Fire In Chernobyl, and a Volcano
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a32127561/volcano-chernobyl-fire-locusts-weekend/

#9926 9 months ago

I’ve been a physician for over 20 years and I’ve never gotten a kickback. Damn, did miss it?

#9927 9 months ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Need to tell the hospital that I guess.
Maybe it’s like Sorny, Panaphonics, and Magnetbox. Just as good as originals?

LOL, perhaps.

Quoted from Murphdom:

They are supposed to start using the KN95 here in healthcare settings because of shortages but there are concerns over counterfeits. So they are requiring certificates of origin.

That makes sense, but even certificates of origin can be falsified unfortunately. Spot checking the orders is probably the best way to see if they conform to their listed specifications. I ran into a lot of counterfeit products during my time as an engineer at a bearing company, so I'm not surprised to see counterfeit masks now.

In Toronto they recalled 62,600 Chinese masks because they were "poor quality."

https://globalnews.ca/news/6789934/coronavirus-city-of-toronto-surgical-masks-recall/

#9928 9 months ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

Doctors don’t get a kickback from pharmaceutical companies.

Confirmed. Everything goes through a strict legal and compliance process. You wouldn’t believe what mundane things I need to justify on a regular basis.

#9929 9 months ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

Doctors don’t get a kickback from pharmaceutical companies.

Must just be in the TV or movies. But then you have all those approved drugs that harmed or killed people and get recalled anyway.

I'm of the opinion don't take man made medications unless your life is in serious danger, or you have a skin itch that won't go away. I had a bit of that eczema on my shin a few years ago. Amazing potion my dermatologist prescribed.

#9930 9 months ago
Quoted from metallik:

Basically, this. China's responsibility is for China. We had plenty of information to make our own decisions. Blaming China for the actions of our own leaders is f'n stupid.

Is anyone blaming China for the actions/in actions of our leaders? That is a separate issue.

Would the pandemic have happened at all if wild animal wet markets were permanently banned in China after SARS? Would it this have spread internationally if China had alerted the WHO and world in mid-November when it started? Would some government leaders have taken it more seriously and better prepared if China had been more forthright about how deadly the virus was was in Wuhan?

Those are legitimate questions that will need to be asked and vetted thoroughly when this is all over. They are hardly irrelevant.

#9931 9 months ago

We would have had less of an impact from China if we were not so dependent on them and they hadn't been able to come here and buy up parts of our country and then regularly travel back and forth.

Oh yeah, someone was trying to lessen that.

#9932 9 months ago
Quoted from cait001:

As well, CDC + WHO all updated their outlooks on it on a daily basis to reflect the latest research and expert opinions.

WHO and CDC did make mistakes, especially early on.

CDC
Fumbled the rolling out of test kits with many not working.
https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/03/05/905484/why-the-cdc-botched-its-coronavirus-testing/

WHO
They even admitted their mistakes from the beginning.

https://www.sciencealert.com/who-tries-to-correct-wuhan-coronavirus-risk-level

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/480291-who-admits-error-in-assessment-of-deadly

The wearing masks/not wearing masks marks confusion as none of the experts agree or change their minds:

WHO

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world/coronavirus-who-masks-recommendation-trnd/index.html

vs.

CDC
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/u-s-expected-recommend-masks-americans-coronavirus-hotspots-n1175596

vs

Surgeon General
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/health/surgeon-general-coronavirus-masks-risk-trnd/index.html

So, yes, everybody is has made some mistakes.

-2
#9933 9 months ago

some mistakes, which thanks to a process of constant review and without the temptation to satisfy ego, get addressed. That's a big part of how these things work. Recognize deficiencies, adapt, move on.
To lump this collaborative and unfolding process in with the behaviour of numerous world leaders that flagrantly risked the lives of their citizens is ridiculous.

#9934 9 months ago
Quoted from Utesichiban:

Hate the pharma industry all you want but they will be the ones that eventually develop a vaccine and/or treatment and get us out of this mess.

Until the next one.

Then you can find whoever you want to blame for that one too.

Trying to blame anyone for an act of nature seems kind of futile. Just like patting someone on the back, when whatever they did may not have done anything to fix it, but might have been a result of timing instead.

But, keep blaming whoever you want, as that will be sure to make it so this never happens again.

#9935 9 months ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

WHO and CDC did make mistakes, especially early on.

please also address point #3 as discussed here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-coronavirus-containment-thread/page/199#post-5593608

we have lots of hard data

#9936 9 months ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

I’ve been a physician for over 20 years and I’ve never gotten a kickback. Damn, did miss it?

The biggest bestest kickbacks we ever got were pens and paper pads from the pharm sales reps during my wife’s first year of residency. By second year they had shut that down too.

#9937 9 months ago
Quoted from cait001:

some mistakes, which thanks to a process of constant review and without the temptation to satisfy ego, get addressed. That's a big part of how these things work. Recognize deficiencies, adapt, move on.
To lump this collaborative and unfolding process in with the behaviour of numerous world leaders that flagrantly risked the lives of their citizens is ridiculous.

The WHO should be ashamed of how they have treated Taiwan. They should have paid attention to their warnings, how does anybody defend that?

#9938 9 months ago
Quoted from Oaken:

The biggest bestest kickbacks we ever got were pens and paper pads from the pharm sales reps during my wife’s first year of residency. By second year they had shut that down too.

You guys missed the gravy train with biscuit wheels

12
#9939 9 months ago

The WHO have made many mistakes.

I'd suggest every album since Face Dances applies, and really they should have hung it up for good once Entwistle died.

#9940 9 months ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

The WHO should be ashamed of how they have treated Taiwan. They should have paid attention to their warnings, how does anybody defend that?

*sigh*
If you don't want to talk about the things you first brought up that's fine but don't "what about this" to distract from the central points that this wasn't just some global whoopsie where everyone messed up and no leaders are any more to blame than others for their death tolls.

#9941 9 months ago

My only mistake is trying to argue with people that think this would not have happened if something else had been done.

It is human nature to destroy itself, and no one man or organization will ever change that. When one tries, there are too many that will not let it happen.

See you all at the wet markets in Little Hong Kong. Or the farmer's market downtown. Or the regular super market where the person behind you in line is breathing down you neck. Can't wait until that all starts up again.

#9944 9 months ago
Quoted from Oaken:

The biggest bestest kickbacks we ever got were pens and paper pads from the pharm sales reps during my wife’s first year of residency. By second year they had shut that down too.

We used to get lunch provided at our grand rounds and there were some pens by the food but that’s the extent of my riches from the pharmaceutical industry.

I don’t understand where people get this idea that pharma companies are lining doctors pockets. It’s so out of the realm of reality.

#9945 9 months ago

I will address why it is hard in America.

The largest problem with addressing #3 compared to many other countries is that we have the most freedoms, including other social democracies-

To do a complete lock down you need to implement Eminent Domain, Suspend part of the 1st Amendment (Peaceful gatherings even on Easter), lock down educational services, stop all huge gatherings-including sports, disrupt economic supply chains, pass stimulus bills with enough votes, mobilize the military for humanitarian reasons, try to supply 50 Governors with enough supplies from an inadequate amount of supplies, fight off lawsuits, then try to balance federal and state laws.

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the civil war, and FDR suspended many constitutional freedoms during WW2, so how quick did everyone expect America to pivot?

People are talking about how long it takes these companies to change their production lines to make ventilators and masks, but Charmin can't even keep up with demand on toilet paper.

China simply welds people into their homes, because they don't have to worry about balancing freedoms with a pandemic.

#9946 9 months ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

We used to get lunch provided at our grand rounds and there were some pens by the food but that’s the extent of my riches from the pharmaceutical industry.

Buy me pizza and I move pinball machines. Never got no pens... Doctors

#9947 9 months ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

The largest problem with addressing #3 compared to many other countries is that we have the most freedoms,

To be honest I was NOT expecting this as a response and I guess I'm just stunned as to how to even proceed

#9948 9 months ago

Actually, nevermind. There is no way I want to get into a discussion about how Americans actually perceive America.
I will politely withdraw so I can keep posting charts in this thread in the future.

#9949 9 months ago
Quoted from DaveH:

Buy me pizza and I move pinball machines. Never got no pens... Doctors

So you’re saying you get a kickback?!?!

#9950 9 months ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

I will address why it is hard in America.
The largest problem with addressing #3 compared to many other countries is that we have the most freedoms, including other social democracies-
To do a complete lock down you need to implement Eminent Domain, Suspend part of the 1st Amendment (Peaceful gatherings even on Easter), lock down educational services, stop all huge gatherings-including sports, disrupt economic supply chains, pass stimulus bills with enough votes, mobilize the military for humanitarian reasons, try to supply 50 Governors with enough supplies from an inadequate amount of supplies, fight off lawsuits, then try to balance federal and state laws.
Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the civil war, and FDR suspended many constitutional freedoms during WW2, so how quick did everyone expect America to pivot?
People are talking about how long it takes these companies to change their production lines to make ventilators and masks, but Charmin can't even keep up with demand on toilet paper.
China simply welds people into their homes, because they don't have to worry about balancing freedoms with a pandemic.

Shoot for the Moon and accept a little less.. today. The rest will be ground in soon enough.

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