(Topic ID: 213931)

The Non-Italian Bottom Club: live to nudge, nudge to live


By westofrome

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 22 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 18 days ago by mof
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 1 year ago

This is a thread to celebrate pins that dare to break the mold on the bottom third. That challenge your nudging skills over inlane gaps, test your reflexes with lower pops, shatter your assumptions with inverted in/outlanes - or no inlanes at all, that question the modern conventional wisdom that a third of the playfield is already designed before the design process even begins. That expand your flipper consciousness.

Share your favorite innovative bottom thirds here.

#2 1 year ago

spanish eyes. There is one on location in my town. love bouncing the ball out of near death back into the playfield, and if you raise your flipper up it can drain under it. doh!

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#3 1 year ago

Thousands of them...but Tag Team since I just saw it for sale today

#4 1 year ago

The save posts with one-way gates in the inlanes on Centaur are one of my favorite lower playfield features. Not sure why we never see them anymore, especially since they can co-exist with the standard inlane-outlane configuration.

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from InfiniteLives:

spanish eyes. There is one on location in my town. love bouncing the ball out of near death back into the playfield, and if you raise your flipper up it can drain under it. doh!

This is so much fun. It's a shame those pesky Europeans blocked this same design from being used on Freedom - woulda been a much more interesting game.

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#6 1 year ago
Quoted from InfiniteLives:

spanish eyes. There is one on location in my town. love bouncing the ball out of near death back into the playfield, and if you raise your flipper up it can drain under it. doh!

we played it at league once. Some people don't realize without a bonus there is no reason not to tilt rather than drain. We had some great saves that night

#7 1 year ago

This "Italian Bottom" shit has gotten out of hand. I always feel like I'm reading the M4M CL ads.

Can we change it to "standard arrangement?"

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

This "Italian Bottom" shit has gotten out of hand. I always feel like I'm reading the M4M CL ads.
Can we change it to "standard arrangement?"

say what? what M4M CL ad's? lol.... those are gone brother... bwahahahhahaaa!!!

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

This "Italian Bottom" shit has gotten out of hand. I always feel like I'm reading the M4M CL ads.
Can we change it to "standard arrangement?"

Something must have happened long ago,but why in the thread title "non-Italian"???

#10 1 year ago

From Paragon's IPDB page:

"Paragon' is the first widebody production game from this manufacturer.

The standard version of this playfield has four flippers as shown on the flyer. An unknown quantity of the games shipped to Europe had only three flippers. In this version, a ball guide and a single post replaced the upper right flipper, and the flipper assembly was not installed. In addition, a mini-post was added at the opening beneath the pop bumper in the Beast’s Lair to make it more difficult for the ball to leave the playfield that way.

We asked designer Greg Kmiec to comment on why the 3-flipper version was created. He replies:

I wouldn't have originally designed Paragon with that lower right section that way because it looks like the pinball could get stuck between those two wire forms.

If my memory serves me correctly, I seem to recall that the Italian, French and German markets were quite strong for Bally during that period and Bally was often visited by various foreign distributors. I recall that they relayed the fact that their players liked to hold the pinball by the flippers. The way it was relayed to designers through interpreters was that their players liked to hold the pinball on the flipper, take a drink of beer and brag to other players about the skill shot they were about to shoot. That couldn't be done with the original Paragon design. I tried something different with Paragon, since it was Bally's first wide-body game. It was relayed to Bally that the foreign player preferred one return lane on each side at the bottom of the game that "returned" the pinball to the flippers for a playfield skill shot. This type of design became known within the industry as the "Italian Bottom." It was used extensively then throughout the industry and is still in use today.

I do seem to recall adjustments being made to Paragon for foreign games [to have the "Italian Bottom"]. I don't recall how many were changed or if they were changed for only one country or one distributor, but they were definitely changed in the factory on the production line. It might have been due to a combination of two factors: the foreign distributors requesting something their players wanted and Bally realizing a cost reduction on the Bill-Of-Materials by eliminating a flipper. Bally might have been willing to change part of a production run just to sell a new wide-body game.

Reportedly, all Paragon games in France have only 3 flippers."

http://ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1755

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from westofrome:

From Paragon's IPDB page:
"Paragon' is the first widebody production game from this manufacturer.
The standard version of this playfield has four flippers as shown on the flyer. An unknown quantity of the games shipped to Europe had only three flippers. In this version, a ball guide and a single post replaced the upper right flipper, and the flipper assembly was not installed. In addition, a mini-post was added at the opening beneath the pop bumper in the Beast’s Lair to make it more difficult for the ball to leave the playfield that way.
We asked designer Greg Kmiec to comment on why the 3-flipper version was created. He replies:
I wouldn't have originally designed Paragon with that lower right section that way because it looks like the pinball could get stuck between those two wire forms.
If my memory serves me correctly, I seem to recall that the Italian, French and German markets were quite strong for Bally during that period and Bally was often visited by various foreign distributors. I recall that they relayed the fact that their players liked to hold the pinball by the flippers. The way it was relayed to designers through interpreters was that their players liked to hold the pinball on the flipper, take a drink of beer and brag to other players about the skill shot they were about to shoot. That couldn't be done with the original Paragon design. I tried something different with Paragon, since it was Bally's first wide-body game. It was relayed to Bally that the foreign player preferred one return lane on each side at the bottom of the game that "returned" the pinball to the flippers for a playfield skill shot. This type of design became known within the industry as the "Italian Bottom." It was used extensively then throughout the industry and is still in use today.
I do seem to recall adjustments being made to Paragon for foreign games [to have the "Italian Bottom"]. I don't recall how many were changed or if they were changed for only one country or one distributor, but they were definitely changed in the factory on the production line. It might have been due to a combination of two factors: the foreign distributors requesting something their players wanted and Bally realizing a cost reduction on the Bill-Of-Materials by eliminating a flipper. Bally might have been willing to change part of a production run just to sell a new wide-body game.
Reportedly, all Paragon games in France have only 3 flippers."
http://ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1755

Oh i see,Thank You for sharing the info I never knew about this

#12 1 year ago

I only have a few games with this "Italian bottom". I still can't figure out what's wrong with that country.

Anyway the other twenty or so have traditional non similar arrangements. Trade Winds for example.

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#13 1 year ago

Another one of my favorites is Frontiersman. I can't get enough of playing this one.

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#14 1 year ago

Here's one we played last night. Williams Stop N Go. Fun game.

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#15 1 year ago

Gold Wings : you can bring the ball all the way back up on the left
Trident: open RH return with "playmore" post
Space Mission: slots where slings would be
Volcano Open RH return lane with gate option

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from westofrome:

It's a shame those pesky Europeans blocked this same design from being used on Freedom

That's.... un American!

#17 1 year ago

I remember playing a game where if you did the right thing the flippers would slide towards each other so there was no gap in between. Probably an EM. Anyone remember what that one was ?

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from srcdube:

I remember playing a game where if you did the right thing the flippers would slide towards each other so there was no gap in between. Probably an EM. Anyone remember what that one was ?

Those are zipper flippers used on many Ballys and a few Williams in the 60s and early 70s. Also Medusa has them on the upper playfield. Maybe others too.

Fireball may be the most common and well known.

#19 1 year ago

Was Space Station the last pin without inlanes? It was my second game, and it definitely made me a better player. Live-catch or die!

#20 1 year ago

Bally Old Chicago has a challenging non-Italian bottom with a very tight space between the flippers, no in lanes, and those two outlanes guarded by pop bumpers that can help you or fire your ball into the sewer. Fun to play if you are a “flow” player (I guess you could say that about ems in general). It’s a beautifully rendered game too. I hope to own a good example one day.

1 week later
#21 1 year ago

Love the "open-elbow" arrangement on Jacks Open/Jacks to Open. Every outlane drain is savable, every drop catch is potentially a drain unless you're careful. Really improves your skill and keeps you on your toes at all times.

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1 year later
#22 18 days ago

So Italian Bottom is a "loose" term?
-mof

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