Did you check the fuses? Sounds like a blown fuse to me.

Hi!

So, the reset protection board solves one type of power problem on your main power driver board, and it does that well.

I've had very good results with this kind of board, even when I use it inappropriately (as a 'keep the pinball working indefinitely' instead of a 'keep it working until it can be repaired properly').

That having been said, I've also had the experience you are having... the power board needs to be repaired, and the 'no more resets' board showed a DIFFERENT problem immediately.

The fact is that your power driver board is probably twenty three years old, and it probably has multiple failure points that need attention, not just for the +5v (which needs to be rock-solid perfect for no resets), but also the +12V, and the +12V unregulated, the 70V, etc.

I always shrugged my shoulders when I had your experience, and knew that I would have to fix the board properly right now, instead of later.

It's not the daughterboard problem, it's a 23 year old board that has seen heavy use for a lot of it's life that needs a fair amount of the power circuitry properly looked at and repaired.

Sorry you are having problems...

But getting a proper repair for your power driver board was always going to be the better option.

You are just going to have to do that now instead of later.

Imagine owning an addams family and being too cheap to spend like 120 bucks to have all your boards gone through.

Probably the DOUCHE-iest comment Ive read on Pinside. Good luck getting help.

Everyone please calm down. Sinistarrett, good one but not helpful

Imnitguy, I understand you frustration but your lashing. Most of the guys that’s are gonna read this thread either work on boards themselves or have been in your shoes already.

The answer is to walk thru the pinwiki on 5v reset problems and follow the steps to see if you have a change. It’s well documented and discussed that the no more reset boards are a great “get it thru the night” and diagnostics tool and not good for prolonged use. To have one cause more problems definitely means there is more wrong with your board then just a single cap.

Pinretail’s answer while not what you wanted to hear is the hard truth. It’s being told like this because no one listens when the answer is get the board properly repaired. Everyone wants to hear “reset the connectors” or “reseat the ribbon cables”. Both of these might work but if the system isn’t booting properly before you reseat the cable you still need to send the board in as it still has problems.

Best advice and the correct thing to do is send the board in to get it fixed and look for another board as a backup if you have a few WPC games just in case

Visual inspection of fuses is almost worthless. Don't do anything else until you pull the fuses and check them with a meter.

No it is not well documented or discussed. The Kahr version is a permanent fix for what it addresses.

Other parts of the pin can still break.

And the OP used a knock-off version anyway, no telling what that one does or how.

All of these types of boards are band-aids. It fixes one circuit while increasing stress on another. They are not good long-term solutions. Anybody that believes differently is misguided. Pull the fuses and check them. That might get you back up and running but your driver board needs sent out for repair, or a replacement needs to be purchased. You also may have a connector issue.

Send it to Chris Hibler here. I have personal experience with him doing work on my boards and would have zero hesitations with doing business with him again.

Won't be instantaneous, be prepared to wait as this expertise is niche in the hobby, but it is absolutely worth the wait!

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on what the issue is. There's no telling if what happened also affected the MPU.

Additionally, keep in mind that if you buy from the listing you linked to, you would be buying it second-hand.

Rottendog isn't doing business any more (the original owner passed away, unfortunately), so there's no support if something doesn't work.

You can get leftover new stock here: https://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/ProductPages/RotDogBoards.html

You could always send your MPU and driver board out for repair. There's a handful of folks who perform that service.

Ok, I’ll play. Search pinside for wpc reset and read the numerous threads all saying rebuild the board. The caps are past life expectancy. Then count the number of times someone comes running in to tell us the no reset board will fix everything. Them read some more and fine the same people wanting to know why their game is down again 6 months later.

I’m not gonna as I read thru most of the thread as they came up. No add-on board is gonna fix everything all the time! You don’t know his game and sure as hell don’t understand the wpc board set if you foolish enough to spout how one brand or another will fix it. So…… here you go. Your listed board EXACTLY

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/kahr-daughterboard-question-is-it-a-permanent-fix

HUH? Well documented. There is TONs of threads just like this. If you don’t actually fix the boards please don’t tell people what’s the correct way to fix them. It’s like watching the plumber and telling him that’s not how to do his job

Echoing what was said above. Pull your original board and send it off for updating to someone reputable. Chris Hibler is great. He's done a number of boards for me. There are several other very good board work guys out there.
A rebuilt original board will usually be a better solution than a replacement.

Rob Anthony, coin op cauldron, hell, I’ll take a look if you can’t get it in anywhere

You're not alone when you misunderstand what the Kahr board does. Go to Kahr's website: https://www.kahr.us/daughterboard.html
"This circuit creates a unique 5 volt power source for the MPU board."

It is IMPOSSIBLE for failing circuitry on the original 5v source to cause resets with a Kahr board installed because that circuit is no longer used for that purpose. The board performs ONE function. It permanently solves that specific problem.

While putting strain on another. That new 5v circuit is pulled from the 12v supply. That is not without consequences.

I’m with Haymaker on this one op sounds like a whiny little bitch Not everyone wants a freaking Adam’s and most ppl on here can afford far better! Lol

Would suggest sending the board to someone like Chris Hibler to repair. I totally understand the desire to use a new board and be done but the old boards are that....old....and need some maintenance so they can live on many more years. Likely save money in the long run. He has vids of fixes https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball/search?query=addams%20family

Sheet, someone had urine in their cheerios this morning.

So…I’m not misunderstanding anything. I read what’s going on and understand you think this is a fix. What I’m telling you from coming up on 10 years of board repair is that all of the I repeat ALL of the no reset boards still draw from the machine itself. Current there is not reset fix board that draws power from an independent source. If your going to do that, you might as well run the 5v off the independent source directly to the mpu then. What all of the board repair people are trying to get everyone to understand is that’s a fault on the 5v line means your board needs to be services. Much like the check engine light. You can have it reset (no reset board) and it might not come back on but you should really have it checked to make sure.

I disagree that your board needs service just because it's resetting. The original design frequently failed in that specific way, causing resets. Yes, rebuilding it back to the original specifications will solve the immediate problem but you're still stuck with the problematic original circuitry. If your game will run X number of hours before needing that service then the game will run X number of hours PLUS Y number of hours with a Kahr board installed. It solves that one specific problem.

The other things that use the original 5v source are more tolerant of low 5v so you can go longer between service and as a bonus you can go even longer since the Kahr has shifted some of the load away from the problematic circuit.

I'm with you Mad_Dog_Coin_Op that it shifts the load and that's not without consequences. I still argue the system can go longer between service with the Kahr than without.

I put Kahr boards in three of my machines and haven’t had a reset since (in a couple of years). I do understand what they’re doing, and I expect that I’ll eventually have problems that need more permanent repair. That said, I’m not fixing them until they’re broke broke.

And when the colordmd or pin2dmd either drag the 12v down or pull enough juice that the reset board is starved and the Mpu is resetting again?

Now what do you chase. The mpu reset or the glitching display.

This is why I stated well documented that you threw shade on. The claim this is a solution is incorrect. Like has been stated before, it’s a band aid. I have tried a couple different analogies to try and explain the point. You want to dismiss all of it and claim this is a better. What we are telling you is right now with a game failing, fully servicing the board is the correct way to fix this.

I thought these 5v stabilizers were bad news because thy caused strain on other circuits leading to different problems down the line?

You keep claiming this because you don’t understand the purpose of the board. As I pointed out above, it solves ONE problem and does so permanently.

You keep coming back to ‘other problems can happen too’. Yes, other problems happen to pins. The original issue (low 5v on original circuitry) has been permanently remedied.

I think you and Tallon may just be talking past each other and really are in agreement... the difference being that Tallon seems to be saying something along the lines of "just because you can go longer between service doesn't make it a good idea". [sorry Tallon if I'm just putting words in your mouth]

My car manual says I should get oil changed every 5k miles. We all know that even standard engine oil can go longer under most circumstances especially in a newer car. At the end of the day though is saving $30-$50 a year on oil changes worth it in a $30k+ vehicle? I guess that value is to be determined by each individual.

In the case of the Addams Family (which apparently I'm bougey enough to own) I guess some people feel a servicing after 30 years is reasonable and others prefer to get a few more years out of it. To each their own.

goldblum-quote.jpeg

OK, your not going to listen. So for the people who will read this down the line, there is nothing wrong with the way the system was designed originally. It was neither problematic nor faulty. If someone feels like a Kahr board will help extend the life of a circuit, by all means use it. What is being very nicely explained is the power driver board is designed to be serviced. If a part is failing, it's time to service the board.

With games this age it’s always good to make sure molex plugs are not the culprit.

When it comes to strange issues I always make sure ribbon cables aren’t the factory originals.

Not for nothing but Genesis>Addams family

Genesis + Addams Family > just one of them

Oof. After being here for over a decade, I have to say that the "My toy is more expensive than your toy" take is pure cringe.

Bahahahaha

Oh man I like this Clarence kid. This guy is fucking crazy.

This is absolutely not the case. Rottendog was bought out by someone else and the boards are still being produced. Big Daddy doesn’t carry them any longer but checkout Pinball life. New boards with warranty and support.

So after reading through this thread no one’s seemed to ask about the specific board you installed and if it is actually defective. And if it is defective was it in a way to cause damage to the game? Someone needs to bench test the actual reset board to see if there is a manufacturing defect. A bad part or something on it causing a short. Or worse instead of providing a clean 5V it causes an over voltage. At this point no one knows until that is tested. If it truly is defective like that then the thread topic is appropriate. Otherwise it may be ok and just highlighted other weak points in a stressed machine.

I’ve rebuilt many WPC MPU and driver boards. These reset boards can be good as a temp fix or for testing but as others point out shift the load somewhere else. This isn’t a problem on many machines that are as delivered and can run for years. On other machines with mods that draw additional resources from the same point as the reset board you can have issues. If that is the case here then adding that reset board pushed it past that threshold and something gave out on the driver board. Could be as simple as a fuse to get you back to where you were. If this ends up being the case you can remove mods or power them separately if you still want to use that reset board. But I would just get your original boards serviced.

Unless your game was overfused it probably won’t need bridges unless someone prior did a hack job replacing some of those in the past. More often I’ve seen bad connections at the 5V regulator or some of the large 15000uf caps and other electrolytic caps bad. Some replace the 5V regulator with a newer switching style or there are a couple mods for the 5V section to improve it.

On the MPU unless it was damaged there probably isn’t any service that would need except for the small axial electrolytic cap. If it is silverish blue then it is trash and needs replacement. Otherwise it is probably ok.

I thought they just bought up the old stock and are selling them. They are making the boards too?

You just bought it for 11k and it has reset issues ouch. Sounds like you over payed by a lot.

It’s unclear from the website. There are definitely new owners, there’s a copyright date of 2022 on the site, and it’s been redesigned. There’s no info on when/where/how new boards are being made. This may have been communicated elsewhere, but it is REALLY hard to get stuff made right now, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they are selling off old stock first.

Glad to hear they are improving the boards! I would rename them as well haha. I’ve avoided RD due to issues noted in the past with certain MPUs of theirs for system 11 games mostly.

Adams family is overrated. Fish tales is better!

Plug a second no reset board into the first one