(Topic ID: 126221)

The Nightmare Before Christmas

By MarkInc

6 years ago


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  • 1,313 posts
  • 248 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by PinMonk
  • Topic is favorited by 220 Pinsiders

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There are 1,313 posts in this topic. You are on page 12 of 27.
#551 4 years ago

It's about how impact angles affect momentum. Straight ramps at those crucial few inches bottom guarantee that any point the ball hits on the way up will be at the same angle relative to the shot angle from the flipper. What you need to do then is ensure that the two angles are not too far apart from each other. It doesn't automatically make the straight ramp *better* than a curved, but it does make it a damn sight easier to design properly. Solidworks in particular demands straight lines on easily defined gradients if it's not going to give you a massively finicky time about it. Certain types of ramps, such as drop ones, also have to be straight at the bottom or they just won't function. But curved ramps are AWESOME as long as they're done right, and the ball doesn't clonk against the wall when it's shot in; the ball also hugs the curve more because it's automatically channelled that way. As long as the curve is sensibly shallow with a wide radius, and the entry angle cross-sectioned between the two sides is close to perpendicular with the ball shot, you should be alright.

#552 4 years ago

Ramps are looking really cool. I am reminded of the hill from Jack's lament for some reason. Don't know if you had plans to but it could be a cool feature to work in.

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#553 4 years ago
Quoted from SLCpunk2113:

Ramps are looking really cool. I am reminded of the hill from Jack's lament for some reason. Don't know if you had plans to but it could be a cool feature to work in.

I'm using the moon and hill image for my 'back glass'. I'm sure it inspired the curves.

#554 4 years ago
Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:

It's about how impact angles affect momentum. Straight ramps at those crucial few inches bottom guarantee that any point the ball hits on the way up will be at the same angle relative to the shot angle from the flipper. What you need to do then is ensure that the two angles are not too far apart from each other. It doesn't automatically make the straight ramp *better* than a curved, but it does make it a damn sight easier to design properly. Solidworks in particular demands straight lines on easily defined gradients if it's not going to give you a massively finicky time about it. Certain types of ramps, such as drop ones, also have to be straight at the bottom or they just won't function. But curved ramps are AWESOME as long as they're done right, and the ball doesn't clonk against the wall when it's shot in; the ball also hugs the curve more because it's automatically channelled that way. As long as the curve is sensibly shallow with a wide radius, and the entry angle cross-sectioned between the two sides is close to perpendicular with the ball shot, you should be alright.

Rampguru!
Thanks,making a sidenote..there is so much more to ramps than meets the eye.

#555 4 years ago

run forest run.png

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#556 4 years ago

Look great but man that's one dark pf.

#557 4 years ago

As it should be really. We don't have any plastics art yet but it's obvious that Mark is going for contrast, separating the two visual layers to make them easier on the eye. One will be lit in a very localised manner through inserts, like a starry night sky; the other will be permanently and uniformly lit as an ambience, and automatically demands a brighter pallette and colour saturation to make that work.

#558 4 years ago

meet me at the cemetery gates.png

#559 4 years ago

Shiny metal sides. Testing out some aluminum templates. Seem to work fine. Will do in thicker stainless.

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#560 4 years ago
Quoted from MarkInc:

Shiny metal sides. Testing out some aluminum templates. Seem to work fine. Will do in thicker stainless.

Cool, maybe you could have holes cut into them to let pf lighting into the ramps, give them a more airy look. Just a suggestion.

#561 4 years ago

more things in their correct places - outlines, fills, highlights, shadows all in progress
I'm quite pleased with how the bathtub is stepping on the KIDNAP light.

bathtub heading.png

#562 4 years ago
Quoted from MarkInc:

more things in their correct places - outlines, fills, highlights, shadows all in progress
I'm quite pleased with how the bathtub is stepping on the KIDNAP light.

Are the colors in the movie that muted? I've never seen it.

#563 4 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

Are the colors in the movie that muted? I've never seen it.

You should maybe see it. It's a wonderful movie.

Yes, you could say it's mostly gray in Halloween Town.
That's partly why Jack gets so excited about Christmas Town and it's explosion of color.

I'll try to brighten things up here and there.

#564 4 years ago
Quoted from MarkInc:

You should maybe see it. It's a wonderful movie.
Yes, you could say it's mostly gray in Halloween Town.
That's partly why Jack gets so excited about Christmas Town and it's explosion of color.
I'll try to brighten things up here and there.

I've wanted to see it but just haven't gotten around to it. Make it faithful to the movie, it's so unique. Maybe use that new company Stadium Lighting product to light the pf.

#565 4 years ago

Ramp update:
I've got some people pitching in to help.
Henry's volunteered to get my templates copied into a CAD format (along with all the ball guides.)
Jeff is my metal guy - getting me the stainless sheet and getting it cut. And then hopefully making my wire forms!
My pinball friends are awesome!!

#566 4 years ago

Jack. I've got the plans for next hallowe'en!

The Mayor area starting to taking shape.
Outlines, highlights and all that jazz still to come.

mayor.png

#567 4 years ago

Looking good Mark.

#568 4 years ago

Looks like their floating on that out of focus background. It adds a real 3d quality. I like it.

#569 4 years ago

The doctor and Sally find their proper poses.

is that soup ready yet.png

#570 4 years ago

I like how you're putting it all together and showing us every step of the way. Most people, myself included, would wait until a more cohesive overall look is complete but you are showing us how the sausage gets made and I for one love it.
Thank you,
Jim

#571 4 years ago

Mark, I really like your work, and this movie - so am following closely! I have really enjoyed watching this progress.
-Nick

#572 4 years ago
Quoted from jim5six:

I like how you're putting it all together and showing us every step of the way. Most people, myself included, would wait until a more cohesive overall look is complete but you are showing us how the sausage gets made and I for one love it.
Thank you,
Jim

Thanks Jim!

It's a way to keep things on track - good, constructive feedback is always helpful.
It also works as motivation - too easy to just let things sit for a week, that turns into two, three.
I try to do something, no matter how small, whenever I get time so I then have some update to post.

#573 4 years ago

I am starting to think about and design the insert location for my machine. Did you layout all the inserts without regard for art or did you consider/mock up the art before deciding on insert location?

-Jim

#574 4 years ago
Quoted from jim5six:

I am starting to think about and design the insert location for my machine. Did you layout all the inserts without regard for art or did you consider/mock up the art before deciding on insert location?
-Jim

Many of the inserts (Holidays, Oogie Moon & modes, LSB ) were planned with some art ideas in mind. The rest were placed and then art is being worked around them.
The 10 arrow shots and their circle multipliers were placed where they needed to go.
I probably would have left more room for the sleigh and the wizard mode in the middle.

I'd suggest mocking something up first.

#575 4 years ago

cool, thanks.

#576 4 years ago

This is looking great Mark!

#577 4 years ago

I haven't commented much, but I look every time I see new posts. Continuously looking great.

#578 4 years ago

Cleaned up version of Doctor Finklestein

whats up doc.png

#579 4 years ago
Quoted from jim5six:

I like how you're putting it all together and showing us every step of the way. Most people, myself included, would wait until a more cohesive overall look is complete but you are showing us how the sausage gets made and I for one love it.
Thank you,
Jim

A proper artisan sausage that isn't eighty percent sawdust.

#580 4 years ago

Pork, fennel, orange peel, chilies ...

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#581 4 years ago
Quoted from MarkInc:

Pork, fennel, orange peel, chilies ...

very cool

#582 4 years ago

Ramps unrolled.
Take me to your scanner.

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#583 4 years ago

The Oogie Boogie Roulette Wheel has been started.

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#584 4 years ago

Really enjoying seeing the little steps along the way. Thanks, Mark!

#585 4 years ago

Too dark they said.

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#586 4 years ago
Quoted from MarkInc:

Too dark they said.

Such voodoo!

#588 4 years ago

Awesome work, very inspiring, wondering how you plan to support the ramps from the playfield. You may wish to add extra tabs from the ramp sides downward to the playfield for some supports.

#589 4 years ago
Quoted from GPinballer:

Awesome work, very inspiring, wondering how you plan to support the ramps from the playfield. You may wish to add extra tabs from the ramp sides downward to the playfield for some supports.

Some of the tabs will be bent in the opposite direction(not under ramp), have a hole drilled in them, and screwed into support posts.

#590 4 years ago

I started sanding my playfield/inserts in preparation for some kind of clear coat.
I assume that a nice hole-filling, leveling layer is needed for either direct print or vinyl art.

Recommendations: What should I be coating with?

#591 4 years ago
Quoted from MarkInc:

I started sanding my playfield/inserts in preparation for some kind of clear coat.
I assume that a nice hole-filling, leveling layer is needed for either direct print or vinyl art.
Recommendations: What should I be coating with?

Don't quote me on this, but I'm about 99% sure that "in production" you would just sand the entire playfield and inserts and get them level. There probably isn't any clear put on before that. The inserts are supposed to be pressed in where they stand slightly proud so that they can be sanded flush.

Are you asking because you are reusing your playfield? Or does the new CNC'd playfield have minor flaws?

#592 4 years ago
Quoted from T-800:

Don't quote me on this, but I'm about 99% sure that "in production" you would just sand the entire playfield and inserts and get them level. There probably isn't any clear put on before that. The inserts are supposed to be pressed in where they stand slightly proud so that they can be sanded flush.
Are you asking because you are reusing your playfield? Or does the new CNC'd playfield have minor flaws?

I want to seal the wood and provide a good base for paint or vinyl.

This is me still playing with my one and only playfield. No new CNC'd one yet. I have a drawing with holes and outlines but have not added the insert hole ledges.

Most of my inserts were at the correct depth. I sanded them down before gluing to fit in the holes as flush as possible. A few ended up a bit too proud. I've sanded those down level now.

I'm also sanding away the pencil lines, ball trails, etc. All in all, much less than a mm.
There are some small gaps around some of the non-round inserts that I think the clear will fill nicely.

The recommendation so far has been this:
https://www.kbs-coatings.com/DiamondFinish-Clear.html

#593 4 years ago

Take anything I say with a grain or even cup of salt. When doing a vinyl overlay, I ended up spray painting most of playfield white to make the vinyl artwork as bright as possible. Any wood color showing through really muddied the artwork. I ended up using white Kilz in a spray can and masking off the shooter lane just because I like to see a little bit of wood. Last picture on this page shows it: http://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php/SharpeShooter_III. Even with spraying the white, I ended up sanding with either 600 or 1200 grit sandpaper to make as smooth as possible. For clearing over the playfield with vinyl, I would suggest auto clear coat. (I use the cheapest one that Clay suggests Omni). It is a bear to work with (i.e. use swim goggles and an organic respirator), but from start to finish, it is only about 2 weeks. They say Varathane should be cured for a long time (months) before using it, but that tries my patience. This link has an old presentation where I discuss it: https://sourceforge.net/p/open-pinball-project/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/Docs/SS3Presentation.pdf. Page 15 - 16 of the presentation are the pages on Auto Clear. Top notch on all your hard work so far. It is head and shoulders above anything I would be able to accomplish.

#594 4 years ago

My first WOOLY prototype I used an overlay as well. I had all my art printed on a clear adhesive backed film which allowed for text over the inserts. I also painted the playfield white before application of the overlay (partly because my overlay was printed on clear, but also to make the colors as vibrant as possible and to seal the wood). Do your homework though on which clear coat you end up using over the top of the overlay - - I've read a couple of homebrew threads where the specific clear that was used ended up reacting and eating away at the overlay. From my understanding there are at least two different types of clear coat.

If you end up doing direct print I would caution against clear coating the playfield first. I'm no expert by any means, but I would worry about the adhesion of the paint to a smooth clear coat finish as opposed to a slightly textured wood surface or primed surface.

You might also want to follow up directly with Dave who did the Buffy pin. His overlay and clearcoat job turned out as good as any printed playfield that I've seen. Maybe he's reading this and can chime in with some details?

#595 4 years ago
Quoted from T-800:

Maybe he's reading this and can chime in with some details?

Indeed he is!

The Buffy machines are vinyl overlays that have been clearcoated over with DuPont Chromaclear. Like others have suggested, when using a clear vinyl overlay, you will need to paint the playfield white first to get the most vibrant colors. If you have any clear inserts that have colorful art over them you will want to paint those areas white too. On the last one I did I actually painted the playfield white before I installed and leveled my inserts. This kept me from having to tape off every insert and also allowed me to level the inserts with the now white painted surface. I then lightly sand it as smooth as possible being careful not to sand through the white layer. Then the first layer of clear was applied. This clear layer will help level out any imperfections and give the vinyl overlay a nice flat and smooth foundation to adhere to. Then the overlay is applied. Once the overlay is in place I then had it cleared over to protect it. My painter has had really good luck with that type of clear, but whatever you decide to use, be sure to test it on a scrap piece first. You want to make sure the clear does not react with the inks on the vinyl. Also it is important that the first layer be a thin layer. The clear heats up as it drys and if put on too heavy will cause the vinyl to warp. Once the thin layer has cured you can go back and add heaver layers without worry. Hope that helps. If you have any questions, just let me know!

#596 4 years ago
Quoted from Nelly:

Indeed he is!
The Buffy machines are vinyl overlays that have been clearcoated over with DuPont Chromaclear. Like others have suggested, when using a clear vinyl overlay, you will need to paint the playfield white first to get the most vibrant colors. If you have any clear inserts that have colorful art over them you will want to paint those areas white too. On the last one I did I actually painted the playfield white before I installed and leveled my inserts. This kept me from having to tape off every insert and also allowed me to level the inserts with the now white painted surface. I then lightly sand it as smooth as possible being careful not to sand through the white layer. Then the first layer of clear was applied. This clear layer will help level out any imperfections and give the vinyl overlay a nice flat and smooth foundation to adhere to. Then the overlay is applied. Once the overlay is in place I then had it cleared over to protect it. My painter has had really good luck with that type of clear, but whatever you decide to use, be sure to test it on a scrap piece first. You want to make sure the clear does not react with the inks on the vinyl. Also it is important that the first layer be a thin layer. The clear heats up as it drys and if put on too heavy will cause the vinyl to warp. Once the thin layer has cured you can go back and add heaver layers without worry. Hope that helps. If you have any questions, just let me know!

very nice Nelly, thank you

#597 4 years ago

Mark,
I had a chance to download the source code for the machine, and look it over as I am learning to use MPF. I must say, I am impressed with your mix of MPF config files and the use of Python.

10
#598 4 years ago

Smooth: It rubs the lotion on it's skin...

IMG_3588.JPG

#599 4 years ago

That's as good as porn.

#600 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

That's as good as porn.

I think you're watching the wrong porn

There are 1,313 posts in this topic. You are on page 12 of 27.

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