(Topic ID: 126221)

The Nightmare Before Christmas

By MarkInc

6 years ago


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  • 1,313 posts
  • 248 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by PinMonk
  • Topic is favorited by 220 Pinsiders

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There are 1,313 posts in this topic. You are on page 11 of 27.
#501 4 years ago
Quoted from MarkInc:

I can easily get rid of that extra .25" width by reducing the shooterlane width and moving the kickback over 1/8th.

On the plus side of doing that you'll have no problem putting mirror blades on the game.

#502 4 years ago
Quoted from MarkInc:

Equipment:
PC with XP running scan software that came with HP Scanjet 4600 (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high,781-11.html)
PC with W10 running MS ICE (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=52459) and Photoshop(or gimp)
Scanned in overlapping sections 3X5 at 300dots per inch. This created 15 .tif files approx 22Mb each.
Copied files over to faster PC. Ran the ICE program. Loaded in the 15 images. It automatically stitched them for me.
Resulting file was rotated a couple of degrees in Photoshop to align the left edge of the playfield with the edge of the image. The canvas size was adjusted down until it was just the size of the playfield.
Turns out it was not cut very squarely - hand tools. Noticeable at the top and the fuzzy right edge.
This playfield is not a standard size. It is 23.25 X 45.75 (made to fit the cabinet that was built for me.)
I can easily get rid of that extra .25" width by reducing the shooterlane width and moving the kickback over 1/8th.

For what its worth I've had that scanner working on my laptop with Windows 8 as well.

#503 4 years ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

For what its worth I've had that scanner working on my laptop with Windows 8 as well.

I'm sure we could have gotten it working - if the cd drive wasn't disconnected!

#504 4 years ago
Quoted from MarkInc:

I only went from FP -> blender -> Fusion360
But it all imported as one big model, so never got far with that. It was neat to see the render.

Similar experience importing a VP mesh into Fusion 360--one big mesh. Parts can be separated out in Blender, if you wanted to spend the time.

I knew the simulated physics would never really match the real life behaviour.
After my first stab at FP table -> real table I took what I saw on the real table and worked that back into the sim.
The sim became a little clunkier (but I was confident of what worked in the real.)
I didn't really model the ramps. Making them out of matte board and duct tape was a fast, easy, and durable solution.
Start with a rough bottom curve, refine it to the width needed. Make strips for sides. Tape in place.

Makes sense. "Don't measure with a micrometer and then cut with a shotgun." Paper ramps are likely off by quarter inches everywhere compared to your final ramps.

Takeaway is--a VP/FP simulation is good for:

1) Fitting general parts on the playfield/under the glass (get a general idea of placement)
2) Inspiration/Motivation (visuals)
3) Physics simulation just gets you in the ballpark

Guessing it also helps with game code (interfacing w/hardware as well as rules)

Thank you Mark. These insights will help save time/money.

11
#505 4 years ago

This thing is full of holes!

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2 weeks later
#506 4 years ago
Quoted from MarkInc:

This thing is full of holes!

That is a beautiful image... all of the work and time represented in a pretty blueprint ready for you to mass produce to the world

1 week later
10
#507 4 years ago

Slowly coming into focus.

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#508 4 years ago

Crazy outlines with outer glow and drop shadows.
*Not indicative of final art.

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2 weeks later
#509 4 years ago

progress.png

#510 4 years ago

Added a diverter to return left ramp shots back to left or right in lanes when the forest is closed (holiday mode running)

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#511 4 years ago

I'm looking into making the ramps with steel sides and plastic bottom.
Opinions?

#512 4 years ago
Quoted from MarkInc:

I'm looking into making the ramps with steel sides and plastic bottom.
Opinions?

The plastic bottoms would be easy since they'd be flat. The metal sides could get tricky but theoretically possible. You'd almost have to create a 3d model of the shape and bend, then flatten it out (so you can cut your shape), and then manually form around each wall. You'd then either need to add a small L-bracket, or include tabs on the bottom edge of the metal walls that you can bend over.

If you look at the heighway pinball tour, they show an early prototype where all the ramps are flat plastic bottoms, and layered flat plastics sides built up with spacers. I think this is what you're talking about:

#513 4 years ago

As an example, here's a simple ramp, broken down to 3 pieces, then flattened out

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#514 4 years ago

Yes, that's the approach I was thinking of using (The model unfolding technique) . Although, I don't have as much variation in my floor section and would not have the degree of curvature in my walls. I can get away with slight wall curves at the positions where the floor turns sharply and where the floor reaches it's peak elevation.

#515 4 years ago

rampy (resized).jpg

#516 4 years ago

what happened to the vacuum formed ramps??

#517 4 years ago
Quoted from Bonnevil69:

what happened to the vacuum formed ramps??

They got put on hold due to my redesign. Now thinking of other options.

#518 4 years ago

AHH so I see

#519 4 years ago

With ramps this complex, you DEFINITELY want to consider costs wherever you can. The layered platforms on Alien were an early and deliberate cost-conscious decision on my part, I knew at that stage those would be areas of the playfield with no gradients and thus could be cut quickly and cheaply out of flat plastics, and the savings transferred to more expensive mechanisms elsewhere.

#520 4 years ago
Quoted from MarkInc:

I'm looking into making the ramps with steel sides and plastic bottom.
Opinions?

The obvious question: how to hold it all together. You could experiment with short L-brackets of the sort used to attach stand-up signs to posts. From my experience there is one hole for a rivet (plastic to metal) and one for a screw, and thus the holes are different sizes. However, you don't want screw threads or heads to get in the way of the ball, particularly if the plastic is on the bottom, and thus the screws would have to protrude through the sides of the ramps. If you can obtain, or get made, an L-bracket type with two rivet points instead, and incorporate rivet points into the ramp steel design, it should work out pretty well. Then all you would have to do is allow for mounting points to attach the whole ramp structure to the playfield, in seperate joined-up pieces. The decision of steel sides would help you here, because then you can add foldover tabs along any straight edges on the top or bottom that spacers can be screwed into, and in turn screwed into the playfield this way.

#521 4 years ago
Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:

With ramps this complex, you DEFINITELY want to consider costs wherever you can. The layered platforms on Alien were an early and deliberate cost-conscious decision on my part, I knew at that stage those would be areas of the playfield with no gradients and thus could be cut quickly and cheaply out of flat plastics, and the savings transferred to more expensive mechanisms elsewhere.

This is very surprising to me. I would have guessed that assembly of intensive ramps that require layers of laser cut plastic and metal sandwiched between fasteners all assembled by tiny little fingers suffering from repetitive motion issues would have been much more expensive than a simple sheet of plastic vacuum formed and CNC lasered or cut after the fact. Not to mention the fact that with all that assembly the product is more prone to quality issues with improperly constructed assemblies or assemblies coming loose for that matter...

Personally though, I like the layered approach from a prototyping perspective because that is easier to make, does not require tooling and capital to get done and allows for some downstream modifications to be made without losing money invested in tooling.

#522 4 years ago
Quoted from MarkInc:

They got put on hold due to my redesign. Now thinking of other options.

Have you asked Pinsider Freeplay40 his opinion? He makes great ramps.

#523 4 years ago

I think it's awesome that both Riot and Heighway's lead designers are commenting on Homebrew pinball. Shows how healthy of a hobby this is

Really enjoying this process of yours so far, Mark!

#524 4 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

Have you asked Pinsider Freeplay40 his opinion? He makes great ramps.

That's who was going to do the vacuum formed ones.

Quoted from toyotaboy:

If you look at the heighway pinball tour, they show an early prototype where all the ramps are flat plastic bottoms, and layered flat plastics sides built up with spacers.

Those are final ramps, not prototypes.

#525 4 years ago
Quoted from chadderack:

I think it's awesome that both Riot and Heighway's lead designers are commenting on Homebrew pinball. Shows how healthy of a hobby this is
Really enjoying this process of yours so far, Mark!

Always happy to help. Especially on projects as awesome as this. It was really fun to shoot again this year at EXPO and I think everyone that played it is looking forward to how it looks with all the lipstick applied.

#526 4 years ago

What about Evil pinballs lead designer/fabricator/sculptor/programmer well everything but art guy

#527 4 years ago
Quoted from Bonnevil69:

What about Evil pinballs lead designer/fabricator/sculptor/programmer well everything but art guy

You too Matt. Always inspiring. Thanks!

#529 4 years ago

I still think I can make the ramps look pretty damn sweet for this But now there is a huge list of work for me to do. Not including my own stuff

#530 4 years ago
Quoted from Bonnevil69:

What about Evil pinballs lead designer/fabricator/sculptor/programmer well everything but art guy

DOOM is incredible

#531 4 years ago

SHH. No Doom talk in here. This is Marks area for his awesome game

#532 4 years ago

I designed a few different approaches to making plastic with steel hybrid ramps when I first started making pinball parts but scrapped it because I decided I hated plastic. its a slow, high friction material that wears out. Steel is fast and looks way better

#533 4 years ago

My opinion of course.

#534 4 years ago
Quoted from T-800:

This is very surprising to me. I would have guessed that assembly of intensive ramps that require layers of laser cut plastic and metal sandwiched between fasteners all assembled by tiny little fingers suffering from repetitive motion issues would have been much more expensive than a simple sheet of plastic vacuum formed and CNC lasered or cut after the fact. Not to mention the fact that with all that assembly the product is more prone to quality issues with improperly constructed assemblies or assemblies coming loose for that matter...
Personally though, I like the layered approach from a prototyping perspective because that is easier to make, does not require tooling and capital to get done and allows for some downstream modifications to be made without losing money invested in tooling.

It did take multiple attempts and a fair amount of trial and error before the crew hit upon the solution to making the platforms easy and quick enough to assemble without having to hold together and screw in the entire assembly at once. If you look at a completed machine, you'll see that it actually involves upside-down post fasteners.

#535 4 years ago
Quoted from chadderack:

I think it's awesome that both Riot and Heighway's lead designers are commenting on Homebrew pinball. Shows how healthy of a hobby this is
Really enjoying this process of yours so far, Mark!

No designer is going to pass up a potential new source of inspiration, especially their own is out there for scrutiny.

#536 4 years ago

I think this is a great way to do the ramps. Ramps as complex as yours will be a challenge any way you try to accomplish them but I think this approach will keep it straight forward as it can be. I have decided to vacuum form but my ramps will be simple compared to this. Although, every time I play MET I change my mind and want that cool metal ramp sound...

-Jim

10
#537 4 years ago

Sleigh.png

#538 4 years ago

New graphics for Thanksgiving mode. Collect the potions and drop them in the soup. Bigger points for collecting multiples.

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#539 4 years ago

somebody's avoiding playfield work...

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#540 4 years ago

Few more characters coming to visit

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#541 4 years ago

This is very cool

#542 4 years ago

doorbell mystery light. shoot target multiple times to light reward.

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#543 4 years ago

Looks like you're in a really fun part of the process now, Mark!

#544 4 years ago

Sally's Stitches (Spinner) and Mayor (Scoop) ideas

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#545 4 years ago

Unwrapping my ramps - feel the curves.

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#546 4 years ago

Loopy

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10
#547 4 years ago

Almost done my templates.

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#548 4 years ago

Looking good!

#549 4 years ago

Looking great man!
You might want to try and shoot this right ramp part before you put a lot of work in it.
I made the exact same right ramp for the minion machine..
It shot real bad.
After research/looking at a lot of pinball ramps,conclusion was:
-allmost all ramps go straight for a few inches before they bend.
(They do this because you need all the momentum to get the ball up there.)
I hit my ramp several times and the ball lost momentum instantly everytime it hit the side.
I decided to make a ghostbusters kind of ramp(very steep)and was amazed to see balls got up there super easy.
So no wisenose critic comment,i think your ramp is beautiful..your approach is very professional.
My stainless ramp just was a lot of work and went into the bin.

IMG_3934 (resized).PNG

#550 4 years ago

nice work and great approach

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