Any more hints, rumors, etc.? Excited for AP4!

So quiet. Anything percolating?

Educate me, please. I obviously know the general idea of solving mysteries, but where would the compelling storyline/energy come from in a Sherlock pin? Definitely open to it, but certainly curious.

I know there has been some chatter out there that AP could be bringing Riot's Legends of Valhalla to market, so I checked out an old stream of it last night. It's not licensed IP so maybe wouldn't make the splash the company needs, but man it looks like a blast. Cool use of magnets, great ramps, ton of modes. I'd hope to see them maybe adjust the scoop location to make said modes a bit easier to start, and music and callouts could use an upgrade. But the makings of a great game are there and I'll be stoked if AP makes it.

If it is indeed a hip hop theme, it's not happening for awhile. Word on a recent podcast is AP's next two pins are unlicensed.

One of those two has to be Legends of Valhalla it feels like, yeah?

Hard same. Holding out hope for LoV...would be tough to pass up.

Didn't know LoV was a video game and I'm not sure Riot's version is modeled after it, but the videos I've watched of the small run of pins are super impressive. Great layout, tons of modes, excellent lighting, cool toys. Would absolutely love to see it get made and would hope the community would gobble it up regardless of license.

Thanks for clarifying! Fingers crossed it will be an original game that I can purchase sometime soon.

Yeah, the playfield artwork on LoV is pretty tremendous, but as I recall most of the LCD animations are just stills. If they can beef up some of that, and maybe enhance some of the storytelling and voicework, it'll be a jam I think. The mechs and layout are there.

Word. Just rewatched your stream last night. Really nice mix of flow and approachable shots, but plenty of challenge in hitting some targets/mode start shots and then variety in what you need to accomplish. And those magnets! If they don't skimp on the mechs (if this is even getting produced by AP) and market it well enough then yeah, could be a hit.

Alright, Spooky's announced. Let's do this, AP. I'm ready for a new pin.

Maybe if we tag Vegas9 and ask politely he will help.

That doesn't mean they couldn't stop by in here to say hi, tell us it's on the way, or anything else to hype things up a little. Their employees are pretty active in other threads, so it'd be cool to see them come over to these parts too.

This is what I'm saying - just some little nibbles here and there to whip up some more excitement. Look at the Next Spooky and Next Stern threads - constant conversation and speculation, which is fun for consumers and keeps the brand on people's brains.

I definitely understand and appreciate the hesitancy to not want to reveal before the pin is ready, and I hate making it sound like I'm trying to tell American how to do their jobs. But by all accounts this company has excellent build quality and support, and some extra juice for their next pin could really get things flowing. And like VT Pinball said, I just want some fun info for myself lol. I'm not aware that Hot Wheels or other American titles have sold out - they haven't really gone with limited runs or anything - but maybe some teasers could help generate some more sales.

Or it can be just me and NoQuarters in here talking to ourselves til the reveal.

I'm curious what folks' thoughts on the two unlicensed themes mentioned in the podcast might be. Strong speculation for Legends of Valhalla, but does that leave us with Sherlock or other for #2?

Sherlock would be interesting if it's an innovative Nordman design. LOV just looks tremendous to me and would likely be a buy. My only hesitation there is the layout shares similarities with TMNT (upper flipper on left side to loop shot, under flipper shot, viking ship lock = turtle van lock), but I think there are enough differences to set it apart. Videos I've watched show some crazy code depth and really interesting magnet play, and those ramps just zoooooooom.

Seconded. Haven't played but have watched enough video to know the layout and mechs are incredible and really it just needs animations and storytelling help. Could maybe see adjusting one of the mode start shots to be more accessible, but at the same time there are three of them so plenty of opportunities to get going and lots to do outside of modes as well.

There's already a good amount in it! Ship lock, Thor's hammer, Kraken magnets...

As of that Pinball News podcast in late May/early June they were talking 2 pins, but yeah tough to see that happening at this rate.

Per Kaneda and Ben Heck (for what that's worth), a re-titled LOV is gonna be the next AP release. If that's the case, my hope is not too much else changes from the original layout and mechs.

Followed up a bit more on the Kaneda rumor that Two Steps From Hell are on music for whatever LOV ends up being. They're apparently a pretty big deal in music production? Could be interesting, but their top 5 tracks on Spotify were all very heavy and orchestral on a quick scrub through. My hope is they'll polish the existing LOV tracks but add better production value/more juice to them. I liked the uptempo rock in a lot of the modes and felt they fit the theme pretty well.

I'd take LOV re-themed as How To Train Your Dragon but would 1000% be in the minority on that.

I do wonder what the calculus is like right now for AP in terms of generating excitement for the next release. We're out of the Spooky announcement window and in a lull for Stern, which really only leaves CGC to compete with for attention over the next few weeks (til the next Stern announcement lol). I really hope they can take advantage and get something out the door.

As a marketing guy myself, I definitely understand the desire to only want to deliver something when it's ready. But for a company of this size that some would say needs to make a splash, I'd love to see them get into the teaser game. There's too much excitement about pinball right now to pass up the hype machine.

My hot take is that Spooky isn't that great at the teaser game, it's just that they stand out because no one else in the pinball industry really does it.

That said, from listening to podcasts I've definitely gotten the vibe that AP is much more traditional and buttoned up than Spooky, and it shows in their marketing. I would like to see AP modernize a bit in that respect and just get people talking about the company more. Radio silence and then a drop can work for Stern because they consistently churn out games. But for a brand like AP, a bit more action would help. There are like 4 people in this thread talking and hoping amongst themselves (guilty as charged!) but it'd be awesome to get that number higher.

I've thought about this more than I'm proud to admit over the last couple weeks because it's a nice diversion from work, and I think AP could benefit by tagging in some influencers. "Leak" a couple pieces to streamers or distros and get them talking. Send a random photo or two to Zach Meny or Jack Danger and have them post (even if it costs a little money). It'll generate that external excitement and traction while looking more organic.

My last thought here is I say all of this not to be critical of AP, but instead as someone who wants them to be successful. I've been impressed with what they've brought to the table and want more people to feel the same. They just need a little more enthusiasm from the marketplace, and there are some seemingly logical steps to take toward making that happen.

Gotta be aiming for Expo at this point, I'd imagine, and very likely not hitting the dual release this year they said they were aiming for. That's all good - Hot Wheels is holding me over.

I'm actually kinda surprised at how slowly the Godzilla threads are moving right now - maybe because it wasn't a well-kept secret as far as theme? But I don't think the timeframe for waiting would have to be too long for AP. I think it's more a matter of supply at this point.

I know there are supply chain issues etc., but I almost wonder if the delay on game #4 has to do with AP reassessing if it is a good enough theme to get people excited. They've claimed the next two titles will be unlicensed, but I worry about how well that will play at scale in today's market. Will be very happy to be wrong and have them blow us away though!

Didn't they also shift to a classic/deluxe model setup?

On the new pin front, I am considering letting TMNT go if LOV ends up being announced - think they will be similar and APs aren't easy to find on location in these parts. We shall see.

David Fix on Kaneda today - just firing it up so not sure if there's news, but thought it might be of interest to the group here.

Good look at the proto version with chuckwurt

Really curious to see price point on this one...

Was the Thor hammer up-post replaced with a magnet in the production version?

Also looks like it is player-controlled via third flipper button, per release on AP website.

Oh yeah, the hammer crashing down was in the protos. Super fun feature.

I think my hang up right now - and this is only based on one stream, so take that fwiw - is that the LCD animations don't seem like they got a major upgrade with the AP involvement. I'm sure there's more to see, but with the static images and same fonts coming over from the proto I'm a little underwhelmed. I haven't played the game so maybe the critique is premature, but I had hoped that having AP involved would mean improvements to the animations - especially at the $8400 price point.

And this is a totally logical counterpoint to my critique above. If the gameplay is great it's certainly easy to ignore the screen.

I'd love if the announcement was just a preview of the next game, even if they tell us it'll be manufactured in 2022. I know that's not really AP's style but we can dream right?

I'd love to see AP on location more. When I was looking to buy Hot Wheels I had to drive almost an hour to find one. With things opening up a bit more I'd love to see them be more aggressive. That, and hook up with some top streamers to show off their pins. I think that would make for a solid marketing strategy for when they can scale manufacturing.

If/when AP does Sonic, I'll be curious if they push for callouts. Ryan has been opposed iirc but they feel pretty essential. Either way, intriguing development.

Huge White Water fan, and after getting some more time on EHOH recently I'm very excited to see what Nordman delivers for AP. Hoping his release is up next.

I dunno about this one...

Lego Movie would be a near insta-buy for me. Super funny and engaging for both kids and adults - could be a lot of fun but also not the most current IP, so not sure if they would pursue it.

I would love for a company to be like, "Hey, we're considering these 5 licenses - we have the rights to all of them and want the players to decide what we build." Then let people vote. Total pipe dream but would be so fun.

I'd be curious how it would perform on route for you. It's super accessible for new players and has a decent amount of eye candy.

If it's really a Nordman game it's gonna be tough for me to resist. Between Whitewater, Scared Stiff and EHOH he makes some of my favorite games for pure fun. Raaaaaaammmmppps!

No photos from this Franchi tease?

Edit: https://www.knapparcade.org/post/nitro-pinball-shares-peek-at-art-for-american-pinball-s-next-game

I love pinball, but some of the companies are waaaaay too touchy about what gets shared and we don't have journalism, just access. No real reason Knapp should have to take that down other than worrying about not getting info on something else next time - bummer.

Whatever AP is cooking up, I feel like Spooky just made their lives a little more difficult. Top notch IP, 4 flippers, upper playfield all starting at $7800? It's gonna be tough for AP to roll out an original IP in the same price range they did for LoV, in my humble opinion, with that kind of competition out there. That's a good thing, though - hopefully it makes everyone level up their game.

Adding to the above, Spooky's ratings are coming with known licenses/commodities in large part - I don't think you can discount that.

The other thing Spooky has going for it is a very active staff in terms of interactions on Pinside. They're the little company that could, and it gives people the feel goods. They reply in threads and are generally amiable, and that likely makes people feel more invested in the company. AP used to have more of a presence, but it seems like they have gone quiet in recent months (doesn't help that Rosh is gone). It wouldn't surprise me at all if having that friendly face on the forums was a factor.

More than anything, I really just hope to see American increase their production capacity. At the current rate they can't get games out to more locations to increase exposure, and as a result you're limiting your in-home audience to people who are just willing to take the plunge. Clearly they seem content with this strategy, and I suppose it works for a boutique brand like Spooky. But I never got the impression AP was aiming for boutique and I'd really like to see them thrive.

With respect, Fix has said a lot of things about AP that have been slow to materialize. If they have 3 lines, they aren't very fast moving.

I say this as a fan of the company - I really enjoyed Hot Wheels when I owned it for a bit last year, and I've enjoyed LOV when I could find it. But their machines seem in sparse public supply and their lack of licensing clout has been noticeable. I really hope 2023 is the year this all changes, but I also thought 2022 was gonna be that year.

This. Had heard there was a leak but maybe not?

Nah, they need the dehydrated astronaut ice cream instead.

I owned a Hot Wheels for a bit, and it was honestly a blast. Easy to blow up, super flowy, well coded, goofy, moments, etc.

And that was like...a low level theme! And the guys at AP then did a great job with it. Rosh and Ferret have always been great ambassadors here, service Brenna was super responsive, and it seemed like the path was pretty clear.

Since then, I can't say I have a lot of faith in the direction the company is going. We get a lot of talk, promises of cool, unique things, and then nothing doing. Leadership seems adept at going on podcasts and talking things up with not a lot to show for it.

I'm hopeful they can right the ship, because Aimtron should be able to handle this and provide more options in the market. But I can't help but think some things need to change at the top for that to happen.

They could maaaaaybe license Overcooked for cheap. Or maybe some celebrity chef. Guy Fieri pinball who says no

Co-sign this. Maybe you purchase the equipment/parts, but I can't imagine there being an overwhelming amount of value in the current AP offerings.

I think, as rarehero mentioned, an unlicensed theme can work if you can sell it at a lower price. Pitch it as a way to keep pinball affordable instead of trying to roll out a premium product, recognizing that there are people who will buy - including ops - if they can save. Ostensibly if you don't have licensing fees you can roll out a regular BOM and come in at a lower MSRP, but instead we got GTF at premium prices, and we see the result of that.

Related though, how easy was it for the community to support? Were AP games easy to find on location? When I was interested in Hot Wheels I had to drive over an hour to find one. If you're a younger company, and your themes aren't as solid, people need to be able to play the games first. I know that's a bit of a chicken and egg situation, but having a stronger location strategy seemed to elude AP and that never helped.