Honolulu, HI
Lengthy interview with American Pinball on new Pinball News podcast
(Topic ID: 253582)
Linked Games
Barry O's BBQ Challenge (Classic)
American Pinball, 2024-
Barry O's BBQ Challenge (Limited Edition)
American Pinball, 2024
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Galactic Tank Force (DE)
American Pinball, 2023
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Galactic Tank Force (LE)
American Pinball, 2023
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Hot Wheels
American Pinball, 2020
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Houdini
American Pinball, 2017
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Legends of Valhalla
American Pinball, 2021
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Oktoberfest
American Pinball, 2018
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4 months later
Don't think the extra money from the extra deluxe additions (if this is a real thing) will be worth the cost in reputation. As far as I know, AP has nothing but a great reputation with the pinball community for doing things the right way.
Like with Spooky, that goes a long way to engendering goodwill with the community. And though it's not like AP will go out of business if that goodwill is tarnished if they're able to to produce games people want to buy for the games themselves alone (as opposed to also wanting to support an upstart company).
But it would affect a shift for some from lovable company to cheer for and even stretch a bit to big business you give money if you want what they make, sometimes while having to hold your nose. Not a strategy I'd favor when trying to turn things around and establish yourselves as a company to trust.
11 months later
Quoted from onemilemore:No photos from this Franchi tease?
Edit: https://www.knapparcade.org/post/nitro-pinball-shares-peek-at-art-for-american-pinball-s-next-game
Post removed!
Quoted from bobukcat:I noticed earlier that the FB post that Knapp referenced / screenshot was already removed, now Jason's post is gone from his website too. People were hit with a C&D, threatened with one or maybe just asked nicely to take them down. Now I wish I would have saved the picture, though it really didn't show that much anyway and it was grainy. The secret is pretty much out of the bag that the game is going to be Galactic Tank Battle and I'm really looking forward to seeing it!
My assumption is someone from AP nicely asked for it to be taken down.
Will be interesting to see if they can rush job it in time for Expo. But if it can't be actually ready—even if it "should" have been able to be—better to further delay than embarrass.
Quoted from Docpinball:Hello American Pinball Friends!!
American Pinball will have a seminar Thursday October 20th at 7:15PM CST at Pinball EXPO. You are all welcome to come and hear what's happening at American Pinball. See you there.
Cheers
David Fix
EVP American Pinball
Will this seminar include a new game reveal?
So what's the big AP news today? Just heard on the most recent pinball news + magazine podcast that American Pinball will be making an announcement October 5.
Quoted from Knapp_Arcade:There wasn't any announcement, and judging from my conversations with them they weren't close to one. Maybe they'll show something at Expo.
I wonder what bad info Jonathan and Martin received.
I went to americanpinball.com for more info (per the message at the end of the video, but I'm not seeing anything about the classic edition. Link I'm missing?
This is one hell of a sentence:
"Now the company has rejigged the line up by adding a new base Classic model and bumping the previous Deluxe (which sold out long ago) up to a Limited Deluxe, while the previous Classic now becomes the Deluxe."
2 weeks later
1 week later
Quoted from PinStalker:What happened to the rumor of AP doing another run of everything but with a traditional head? Was that real or nonsense?
On Todd Tuckey's video from Expo he said something about AP reworking Houdini and Oct (reworking shots it sounded like)..... is that real?
Sure hope we get some AP stuff before the end of the year (and I don't mean a price hike).
How about just release an actually new game?
AP went from second only to Stern in terms of new game release rate to MIA:
Houdini - 2017
Oktoberfest - 2018
Hot Wheels - 2020
It's almost 2023.
Quoted from Daditude:Legends of Valhalla - 2021
I was listing "actually new" games.
Quoted from Riefepeters:It seems possible.
1) we know the leaked image from the coin taker picnic had Franchi galactic tank force art of a speaker panel - which seemed to be a panel for a more traditional head
2) I feel like I recall Fix talking on the super awesome pinball show about “standardizing” so they can crush on some efficiencies or economies of scale. Maybe I’m just making this up as I usually multi task as I listen…
So perhaps a new head is coming on the next game and all future. Will that new head get worked into remakes of older titles ? Hmm..
I similarly half-recall hearing that Nordman-Franchi were designing a new head for AP games.
Latest pinball news podcast provides some AP info, as per usual. One of the guys says he believes that hope (plan?) for AP is two new games next year, one around TPF and the other around Expo. Also said he played Nordman's game and thinks it's great. Played another unnamed one, too.
And photo journal of AP factory tour https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2022/11/03/american-pinball-visit-2/
1 month later
Don't think I'm saying too much to note that—allegedly—revealing a new game at this year's Expo was at one point the goal.
Quoted from onemilemore:More than anything, I really just hope to see American increase their production capacity. At the current rate they can't get games out to more locations to increase exposure, and as a result you're limiting your in-home audience to people who are just willing to take the plunge. Clearly they seem content with this strategy, and I suppose it works for a boutique brand like Spooky. But I never got the impression AP was aiming for boutique and I'd really like to see them thrive.
Don't think production capacity is the problem. David Fix days they have three lines. Machines to produce is the issue.
Quoted from onemilemore:With respect, Fix has said a lot of things about AP that have been slow to materialize.
He certainly has.
Quoted from Rizmo:I really hope American can release some new games and get their stuff together. I think Spooky will pass them up if things don't really change. I did enjoy Hot Wheels when it was on location. American really needs to at least put out 1 new game a year to keep competitive or they will go the way of the dodo
How do you pass someone you've never trailed? Spooky has been around longer than AP, put out more titles, and shipped more machines.
If you're not releasing new games, you're not selling many games. If you're not selling many games, you're not making money. Whether or not you're making money, you're spending money. How long can you do one without the other?
Quoted from punkin:You lost it when you made the quantum jump from not releasing a new game = not selling many games.
Stern could stop releasing games and just produce the backlog for the next 5 years. That's what AP has been doing and it's working fine. You have to think that people who are running a business that is stable have a fair idea what they are doing, no matter what people think from the sidelines.
I haven't released a new model still in a while, but people keep buying the last models because they are *still* as good as they get.
AP ain't Stern. AP is not selling many games.
Quoted from punkin:You seen their order books?
And the answer i gave you was to your general question, not to wriggle out by using one company against another.
#If you're not releasing new games, you're not selling many games.#
This statement has a dodgy leap of logic, no matter which company you speak of.
I'm speaking specifically about them. You are of course welcome to believe whatever you like.
3 weeks later
Quoted from Rizmo:I just hope they announce something at TPF. If they are only putting out 1 game a year if that it is not looking good for them
Putting out one per year would be an increase from 2022.
2 weeks later
If they don't reveal a new game at/by TPF, I'll post the account from an alleged former employee that was shared with me last August.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Aurich:All pinball cabinets are custom made. No company is going to Lowes to buy cabinet heads. Being 'standard' or not doesn't change basic costs to CNC some wood.
Yeah, that's my issue too. Just reminds me of some not so amazing games. It's fine and not a big deal, but it's just not a great association for me. If they switched it up I'd probably be happy just for that reason alone.
They have a new art director now, maybe there's a bunch of changes coming, who knows. I hope AP has the creative vision they really need to be successful, all they're missing is that spark.
I believe Franchi talked a while back about a new cabinet design coming in with the next title.
1 week later
Per Pinball News/Magazine Podcast, the mentioned actors live action footage of the actors will feature prominently in the game (which squares with the most-recent teaser).
Quoted from Charlemagne1987:My understanding is that Nordman was working on something like GTF when he was at Deeproot.
I believe the Nordman tank game goes back even further than deeproot. So it's interesting that after AP produces and releases Riot Pinball's game in Valhalla, the next game they're going to put out was also (at least initially) designed externally too.
Quoted from mbwalker:Wasn't Steve Bowden (now at AP) doing something like this for Deeproot when he was there? Was it story boards for Raza that he'd put up on his 'Fun with Bonus' web site? Can't quite remember since it seem obscure at the time and I didn't pay much attention to it.
Bowden worked on the game rules. The stoyboarding was done a different guy.
Quoted from PinKopf:What was the supposed reason for the delay in announcement? What indication is there a release last year was even on the menu? Just guesses? If they didn't think the game was good enough, wasn't ready, or they couldn't build them for whatever reason, then I'd prefer they wait until it's done. It might now be worse timing for them, but that's hardly a "botch" and reason for derision IMO.
They scrambled to try to get the game out for Pinball Expo last year and had to throw in the towel on that goal. Hopefully (presumably?) they'll make TPF this year.
Quoted from dsmoke1986:So AP had this ready to reveal in the Fall, and waited and are now going to be 5th out of 5 to reveal??
Ugh, I love their pins, but they desperately need new Sales and Marketing talent, this is embarrassing
You really think the glacial pace is due to the sales and marketing team?
Quoted from dsmoke1986:I mean, they are sitting on a finished version of this game...Get the damn thing out there for the masses to see and sell some freakin' reserve spots...Yes
Until further notice, there's one guy at AP who calls the shots.
Quoted from mpdpvdpin:ummmmmm…W H A T .
Even John Popaduik and Bobby Mueller would think this isn't a good use of development time and money.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Aurich:I missed this. They did hire the Sonic game designer though right?
Yes. Then announced they'd pick a homebrew game at least year's expo to bring to production.
Quoted from Charlemagne1987:I know Kaneda is controversial, but he’s saying that David Fix is claiming they’ve already sold 2,000 units of GTF. Is that realistic? Thoughts?
David Fix says a lot of things.
1 week later
Quoted from Charlemagne1987:I hope Barry’s game isn’t the rumored “Food Truck”. That sounds like an awful theme in my opinion. A sequel to WW, however, would be AWESOME…so awesome, I’d have to sell a cherished game to free up space and money for it.
It's not. I recall hearing that Barry made a new design at AP before he passed.
AP would have to partner with Turner Pinball to do Food Truck or Yukon Yeti (if that's the Whitewater sequel). There was an interview with Chris Turner on the most recent pinball news and magazine podcast where he said Dennis played the Turner prototype and mentioned wanting to still make that game. So I suppose it's possible (unless he'd be making it with Turner rather than AP).
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:No way they sold that many. Maybe to distributers, but I doubt it.
Don't believe that either.
Sucks to read the negative impact of the announced contest that wasn't. My take: just another ill-thought-out, near-spur-of-the-moment idea thrown out by the guy in charge because he thinks he can say whatever and have the people doing the work make it happen. Oh, and to have another public thing to distract from the lack of new games and output from AP. Exhibit B would include the virtual tour of AP HQ from last year's expo (instead of releasing GTF as was the plan).
3 months later
Quoted from Roostking:For real, something happened and AP is not the same.
It's a bummer. I assume stories from behind the scenes will someday see the light of day.
4 weeks later
Quoted from Viggin900:GTF wasn't rushed. It was way behind schedule. It was supposed to be done by expo in October and took a longer 4 + months to release. No one else had anything out to talk about and could have taken best artwork of the year.
Yes and no. It was behind schedule AND it was rushed out (late). LOV too.
1 week later
Ruh roh. Skimming quickly, is it not that they had the trademark and abandoned it; rather, they applied for the trademark and never received it. And the reason they never received it is because the trademark office thinks it is too similar to an existing trademark (Galactic Strike Force). And then AP still went ahead and sold the game under the GTF name?
Quoted from LORDDREK:Definite brand confusion... Isn’t this like saying an apple and orange are too similar because they are both round?[quoted image][quoted image]
Damn, so Brio has a toy pinball machine called Galactic Strike Force? Or they have a space themed toy pinball machine and separately there is a board game called Galactic Strike Force? Haven't read the full doc.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Damn, so Brio has a toy pinball machine called Galactic Strike Force? Or they have a space themed toy pinball machine and separately there is a board game called Galactic Strike Force? Haven't read the full doc.
Seems it's the latter
https://www.amazon.com/Ravensburger-34017-Wooden-Flipper-Safari-Pinball/dp/B079X5HDWF
https://www.amazon.com/Greater-Than-Games-Galactic-Strike/dp/B00IYT8JLQ/ref=sr_1_1
Did we ever find out who the other AP junior designer(s) were/are?
Probably now about two years ago, Fix said AP had hired multiple junior designers. After McQuaid was officially on board, Fix disclosed that Ryan was one of them. I don't recall subsequently hearing about any others.
Quoted from Markharris2000:I don't think it's a one guy who is asleep at the wheel kind of issue.
Tell that to Bobby Mueller.
(Note: Not saying it necessarily IS a one-guy issue at AP. Just that one-guy issues at companies can be a thing).
Quoted from desertT1:Just for fun, if all 4 of those workers are making games, they can make 6.6 games a week.
Is that utilizing lean and agile quad manufacturing or not?
It's possible AP bought deeproot's work benches in the HQ bankruptcy auction. As you may recall, David publicly extended an offer to Robert Mueller to work out a contract manufacturing agreement for RAZA.
Quoted from LTG:I wonder if Aimtron's meddling is the issue ?
LTG : )
I'd be surprised.
Keith and Jack Danger have made a couple of creative layouts for great, fun games with licensed themes.
2 weeks later
https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-2ij8z-14ba309
Pinball Innovators & Makers Podcast
Episode 13: Hat's Off To The Homebrewers With Dave Fix
Quoted from bobukcat:Correct, I meant no offense to the team that did all that work to make the game what it should have been to begin with. But I'll ask, who owns the license to the IP now? Because if that's JPOP or someone else associated to the Deeproot mess the game will still carry a pretty big stigma if they're making money from it.
TurnerPinball.com
Quoted from LORDDREK:Well you know I do. Legend in his own mind reached out to Trailer Park Boys IP manger virtually demanding license only to get a softly written cease and desist. He then proceeds to blame every subsequent failure of his on some behind the scenes effort to stifle his “new” project. I bailed on the thread but it was truly witness to a madman’s madness while there.
And ironically there at least was a David Fix connection during the early parts of this. Some behavioral similarities are evident.
Fix made a GWJ mention on a recent podcast.
Quoted from vdojaq:Oh no, what did he say?
Something about a playfield
2 weeks later
There's a cuphead show on Netflix that has three seasons. So it wouldn't necessarily be as niche as an indie game.
I've never seen the show or played the game, but the animation style is fantastic and—in the right hands—could make for a great pin.
Quoted from Pinball_Eddie:I think this is the seminar referenced:
What a peculiar seminar.
3 weeks later
Quoted from PinMonk:Nothing about that video inspired confidence. I mean, AP just hired a former consumer collections guy who walked in off the street to sell their pins? He seemed especially proud of making sure AP "got paid" which, while important, is a weird focal point for a sales guy.
Says if he would buy any game right now it would be Rush.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Says if he would buy any game right now it would be Rush.
Also talks shit about Stern and JJP's distributor support (and AP's before he joined).
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Also talks shit about Stern and JJP's distributor support (and AP's before he joined).
And about Stern's themes and video assets.
Regardless, I like the volume of info and opinions this guy shares. Podcasters should schedule an interview with him.
Quoted from Yesh23:It’s probably one kid that’s doing prank phone calls getting them excited. We did that all the time when we were kids, but you would think with caller ID these days, AP would figure it out. If they are getting 50 calls a week for that game, they must have the worst sales conversion on the planet…calls to closed sales. O for 50 isn’t a good average boys.
Wasn't listening closely: did he say the problem was he didn't have games in boxes to deliver for those calls?
Quoted from PinStalker:Yeah it makes a lot of sense to be sold out of a model and not building more of it.
If I was buying one - I'd want the deluxe also...... just like everyone else. It's just prettier.
Which one is the deluxe again? Meaning analogous to Stern pro, premium, or LE.
Quoted from Yesh23:As of a month ago, they hadn’t even moved 200 units between all models. This game is DOA, on to the next game
Source?
Quoted from rockrand:Does he say anything about improving there tech support…
The Cummins guy said a lot.
1 week later
Quoted from TreyBo69:So I hear AP hasn't made 300 games in a year before? 2023 seems to be the first time it'll happen.
So since production starting in 2018 they have made less than 1,800 units over 5 game titles. I remember hearing 500 Houdinis and 300 Oktoberfests being tossed around a few years ago...Seems to line up with back of the napkin math.
I hope AP can deliver a game the market really wants
I've been half listening to the multiple Fix interviews today. On this particular topic, he said some confusing/confused things. However, I believe I've pieced together what he meant:
- AP set an internal push goal to build 300 games by the end of December that began at some unspecified date (but not the beginning of the year), and they are going to hit that
- By year's end, AP will have built more games in 2023 than during any other calendar year in company history
Links to the two new podcasts. Each interview is an hour+
Pinball News + Magazine
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pinball-magazine-pinball-news-pincast-november-2023/id1369141531?i=1000637566638
Quoted from TreyBo69:I'm curious what Food Truck even looks like without all the mechs in the whitewood. Unless it was another original single level design they are going to make Food Truck
But I don't think AP bought the Food Truck stuff at the auction? Or maybe they bought it off someone else who did buy it at auction? It seemed like the only thing of some mild value was all the custom animations for Food Truck that were already made.
Anyhow, I think it's rad they want to do a tribute to Barry O in this way. Terrible business move, but rad for pinball fans I suppose.
AP didn't buy it. Would had to have later bought it from Turner. But from Fix's interview, sounded more like Barry worked up a new plan once he got to AP. That could be some new version of something like Food Truck, if for whatever reason people were dead set on doing something like Food Truck without having to acquire what was worked on at deeproot.
Quoted from Sorokyl:I can't believe you guys are taking what David Fix says at face value. The guy that said he had sold 2000 GTFs? Now says they'll be proud to build 300?
I don't take what he says at face value. I was trying to translate what he said into what I think he meant (which is not what he actually said).
Incidentally, what's the citation on the claim that Fix said AP sold 2,000 GTFs? I've seen people mention that, but don't believe I've actually read/heard that from Fix himself.
The recent "small company" narrative is interesting. Not long ago, it was about how big a company they were and how much bigger they were going to get.
1 month later
Quoted from Charlemagne1987:Supposedly someone did win the competition and they’re developing the game, according to what David Fix said in one of his recent interviews (can’t remember which one).
News (rumor) today is that someone other than AP is finally bringing JPOP’s Alice in Wonderland to market. It makes me wonder, JPOP aside - we all know how tainted he is - why can’t AP develop a marketable and instantly recognizable theme like Alice? It doesn’t seem like it would be that difficult to find such a theme in the public domain. Hell, Steamboat Willie is now in the public domain!
Riot Pinball had an Alice design from a while back.
Quoted from Charlemagne1987:Well, according to the most recent post by Knapp, David Fix announced on the Super Awesome Pinball Show that AP is alive and well with big plan’s forthcoming: two new games in 2024 to begin with, some licensed properties and more games to come beyond that. I wholeheartedly hope this is true. Time will tell.
Well that's a relief. Great to know that everything is great there.
Quoted from Sorokyl:they made 200 GTFs (ok pushing 300).
Citation?
Listening to Fix interview now. If anyone else has and can explain his answer about why they haven't been doing licensed games that makes sense in the world where every other company bigger and smaller does, please let me know.
Regarding GTF sales, he's says they've got them. Especially in Germany. Germans are gaga for GTF apparently.
Quoted from EaglePin:David Hasselhoff was apparently very popular there also.
So I've heard
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:If anyone else has and can explain his answer about why they haven't been doing licensed games that makes sense in the world where every other company bigger and smaller does, please let me know.
Following up on my own post, I'll give it a shot (with the help of auto-transcription):
QUESTION
You've come out with two original games since you've been with the company. You had Legends of Valhalla, and now you've got Galactic Tank Force. And you have mentioned in the past that you have two more original licenses coming before any IPs, although you do have some IPs as well in the chute.
So what makes you stay with original licenses versus IPs, at least as of now in your career with American Pinball? You stuck with that.
RESPONSE
Budget. Timing. There's a lot of stuff, right?
So listen, right now we have, when you start a company, you have to get the IP, right? You gotta get the license, gotta fork over what we call dead money, which is you gotta give the licensure all this money and say, okay, we're gonna bring out an 18 to 24 months or maybe more, this title for you, okay?
And then you have to put that out, and then you gotta get the team on it, and you gotta start working at it, right?
The other thing that holds up a lot, IPs, the IPs control the strings too. So if you wanna go a certain route, well, you know, “we don't like that character anymore.” “Or no, we don't want this. We don't want that.”
Now listen, Franchi has actually, has a pseudo friend and partner in crime. I've called him up. “What do you think about this license?” “Oh, it's gotta be great.” I said, “they only wanna do it this way.” “Oh, go away, don't touch it. You don’t wanna touch that. Don't touch it, man, it's toxic.” And he's like, “I’ll get you holy water or something.” And I was like,
So, you know, there's that realm that you wanna make sure, if you're gonna do a license, you got to do it right, right?
And listen, the biggest, the biggest people, we're not in the 90s anymore, right? When people just saw a game and went, “oh my God, it's a game.” Now we have everybody's... you know, kind of a critic and everybody wants to talk about it, which is okay. You know? I like that. But the point is that we have to get it 100% right.”
SUMMARY OF WHY AMERICAN PINBALL DISFAVORS LICENSED THEMES, ACCORDING TO DAVID FIX:
- You have to pay money for licenses
- You have to meet production timelines
- You have to work with the license holders
- You have to do a good job
- People will discuss if you did a good job
Quoted from Sorokyl:He probably just doesn't want to sell more games because then he'd have to figure out how to make more than 300 a year.
I don't understand how is #1 argument is concerns about tying up money for a license. Aren't they privately owned with a billionaire backer?
Meanwhile, David Van Es down in Texas sneaking money out of his kids piggie bank to buy license, build a factory, assemble a legit team, and order parts for 1000 pinball machines to build in a year. Godzilla sized balls. And the response is fantastic and he's got like 3-4x more deposits in a couple of months than David Fix has sold GTF in almost a year.
Yeah. It's almost like the reasons American doesn't do licensed themes are just basic things inherent to producing licensed products which every other pinball company (and hundreds of thousands of other companies) accepts because the results of creating more popular products that people buy a lot more are worth it.
Quoted from PinMonk:PM me your address and I'll send you that bottle so we can speed this info drip up.
The whole interview can be a very special Knapp Arcade Podcast.
I've assumed for some time the stories won't come out until the clock strikes 12 on AP or at least Fix. But if Rosh breaks the ice before then, the floodgates could open deeproot style.
Quoted from Rizmo:I went there once when I was going to IKEA
Could this be the next AP licensed theme?
Quoted from NoQuarters:Ditto...
after Hot Wheels and the departure of some good personnel there is something very different happening. Lose enough key cogs in any company and things go south.
Might be time for them to Fix the Fix. I don't have much confidence in anything he says. When he speaks I get the vibe of a plaid coated used car salesman at a third rate mickey mouse car lot.
Time to right the ship. Something is amiss....
I bought Houdini, Oktoberfest and Hot Wheels new. I have reservations about further purchases
I'm interviews, Fix says the reason things have changed is because the culture was all wrong at AP when he arrived. Per Fix, he had to start more or less from scratch to create a new company and teach staff how to have a good workplace culture.
1 week later
Quoted from greenhornet:Only one manufacturer is going to get the BTTF license. Yet everyone else has the opportunity to produce a non-licensed time travel game. This might have worked out better for AP than GTF.
Many possible approaches/takes.
Considerable potential in the storyboarding.
The BTTF trilogy is set in only four time periods. With a generic game, any period/event of past history and an unknown future could be included. The game's code could be continuously and seamlessly expanded by adding new time locations and events. Would play like a journey through world history.
Gameplay could be highly dynamic, with each moment in history having its own unique set of rules/tasks/lighting/music, which would change instantaneously every time you are transported to a new location.
Quoted from bobukcat:People keep mentioning Food Truck but that was a Deeproot game and they would probably own any I.P. associated with the W.I.P. so I seriously doubt that will be the rumored Barry game.
Turner would own now.
Fix says next game is from Barry. New games also in development from Dennis, Ryan, and Riot. GTF selling well in Germany. AP making money. Aimtron is happy
Quoted from TreyBo69:Is this how you find out you’re doing another game
Link to help if so https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pinball-magazine-pinball-news-pincast-january-2024/id1369141531?i=1000644030542
Quoted from EZ-Rhino:One word for this - ridiculous. This machine is not a good brand ambassador...
Guess that's why they featured hot wheels and Valhalla in their first two weekly streams.
Quoted from calprog:I ordered and nothing? lol. It’s hopeless.
I recently ordered a ROKR magical piano kit off eBay as a gift and received prompt and regular email communications from the seller from the moment of purchase through fulfillment and delivery. The emails were in Chinese so I didn't try to read any of them. But the product showed up quickly, in good condition, and the recipients enjoyed putting it together.
Quoted from ConsoleKits:Wow. I didn’t except that answer. It makes sense though. Maybe American cannot afford the price of a minimum guarantee the license can sometimes add. Maybe I’m just looking for excuses. I bought Galactic Tank Force at auction for a pretty decent discount. I’d love to support them in the future, but my confidence is pretty low at this point…
You are just looking for excuses.
If Homepin, Pinball Brothers, Barrels of Fun, Spooky, JJP, Stern, Dutch Pinball, Play Mechanix, Multimorphic, whoever is doing Princess Bride (a third party for P3?), Chicago Gaming, Haggis, and Pedretti can do licenses, so can American. In fact, they did once (Hot Wheels). And though an original theme, they surely had to pay Riot Pinball to make Legends of Valhalla.
If they view Pinball Adventures / Punny Factory as their primary competition, doubling down on unlicensed themes is a good decision. If they do not, it is not.
1 week later
Dennis was hired as head of design or whatever, not just to make a game or two but mentor the entire design team. Fix did a bunch of interviews about this. So him leaving would be different than a guy doing a design or two and departing.
Has he departed?
Quoted from PinStalker:The thing is: They most likely were grasping at whatever straw to save the company at the time, and whatever gimmick they could muster quicky was going to be the "solution".
How about this for a crazy gimmick? Licensed themes
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:Beginning of the end. They need a licensed theme.
Hopefully they got the Kingsford license
Quoted from Dwboca:Bbq pitmaster should have a smoke box attached to cabinet. Like the tank treads. Only this one is a smoke machine like for a rave or haunted house.
I just realized that there may be a method to this madness.
A way this game may absolutely crush it.
That AP could be on the verge of delivering pinside's current #1 dream theme.
This is a game about BBQ.
Think of the mech opportunities to EAT THE FUCKING BALL.
David Fix may be playing 6D chess after all.
Quoted from PinMonk:So much for weekly official streams, too. Nothing at all this week.
Did they ever stream their current game?
Quoted from LORDDREK:I know you’re joking but in all fairness he did say that 50 calls a week were inquiries about GTF. That was back when they were throttling back to force sales of the premium model most didn’t want. But he also said he just walked in one day off the street and got hired… So there is that.
And are people in this thread saying he's already gone?
Quoted from Pyromedic:"Commemorating Barry's legacy, the royalties from 'Barry O's BBQ Challenge' will be directed to his estate, supporting his family and continuing his impactful contribution to the world of pinball."
Despite all the recent negativity, major props and respect to AP for this.
Well done American Pinball, well done.
And what amount of royalties are we talking about? $15 a game? $50?
Quoted from PinStalker:Who gives a hoot about Barry O? If you're going to make a tribute game: make it Python Anghelo.
Which one would have more weiners?
Quoted from Rizmo:I give them an A for effort
Why?
Quoted from PinMonk:Blueberry, unchained.
Just curious why the poster gives it an A as opposed to a B, C, or whatever other grade.
From what I've seen thus far, a number of aspects don't scream maximum effort to me. But interested in another's take
Quoted from PinMonk:Well, first gear was obviously maxed out, so just a different kind of maximum.
Although, I will say that having the game available to play at key locations almost immediately after unveiling is refreshing. Haven't seen that done by Stern or JJP, etc anywhere close to as broadly.
Stern did it one time in recent years (maybe stranger things?)
Quoted from onemilemore:They could maaaaaybe license Overcooked for cheap. Or maybe some celebrity chef. Guy Fieri pinball who says no
How expensive a license could it really be?
PXL_20240314_200511076 (resized).jpg
Realizing I'm not sure if this Guy Fieri. If it's not, probably even more affordable
Quoted from sgtski1978:Shouldnt the hearing transcript be posted by now? I dont see it on CL.
When you mix up your clusterfuck pinball company threads
(Don't worry, I've been there plenty of times myself)
Quoted from danarchy:next game from AP is Cuphead no where close to being finished though.
^ guy seems to know some stuff
Quoted from zimzam:Played it a couple times and not a fan. Snooze fest. If you’re the type to post pictures of your food on Facebook then BBQ is for you.
Way too many videos of actual meat on a grill. Seriously I can’t believe a company thought this was a good idea.
I played once yesterday. If I opted to nudge like I meant it, I might still be playing. The meat videos are hilarious. And not in a good way.
Game sadly feels very half baked. By comparison, Ninja Eclipse, a less expensive first game from a new company you'd expect to be a joke, crushed BBQ. NE has interesting shots, fantastic art, shoots well, and is legit fun to play.
AP really needs to get it together. I hope they do. But can't say I'm optimistic they will.
Quoted from Rizmo:I just don’t know who is really steering the ship at AP. They released 2 flops now back to back. They really need to spend some money and release a good IP. That’s what gets people really interested. If you did a GI Joe from the 1980 in sure that will get a bunch of people interested just on the theme alone
How do you not know by now?
Quoted from Bmad21:Pinside: licensed themes.
Ap: ok
Pinside: no, not like that!
Seriously. People should spend seven thousand dollars or more on games with unlicensed themes no matter how bad they are.
People should also repost tired zingers they saw elsewhere and mix up the most important part.
Quoted from PinStalker:There was talk he was shopping for a new job at Expo last year.
I'd imagine by that time the writing had been on the wall for months.
I still say Fix destroyed GTF by not having Kerri's boobs in it like she wanted to do.
Compounding it was the rumor that White Water 2 (Yeti) was having the major mechs ripped out of it: probably a very frustrated Nordman.
Still hoping and praying that somehow we get a Nordman Elvira 4.
The couple recent-ish AP panels I've seen do no not paint the picture of the type of place I'd want to work. And I can imagine that being the case for others too. But I get the impression the panelists feel like they're describing a rocking good time. And hopefully it is for them.
1 week later
I believe a couple months ago Fix said the next two games are original themes. And the language he used suggested a sequel of sorts (presumably to Whitewater). But if Nordman is actually gone from AP (has that been confirmed), would they really still go with it?
In the most recent AP interview, it was revealed that Barry was next working on a game themed around the American Pinball factory.
Fingers and toes crossed.
On the latest pinball news / magazine podcast, they say they've heard:
- Nordman no longer at AP
- Expected to return in consultant role for his next came with the company
- That game was to be the next one but it has been leapfrogged by a licensed theme, likely from the other designer. Expects that title around Expo
- Nordman departed after his game was delayed due to not having a mechanical engineer to work on it
Wild thing about the last item is that I recall the exact thing being reported regarding Nordman at deeproot.
If so, add another to the tally of similarities behind the scenes at the two companies
Quoted from Danzig:He thinks he knows everything because his alter ego is “Kaneda”
Nah. Plus it seems like they might actually know stuff
Quoted from Charlemagne1987:Well, it seems that AP’s strategy is to limit their expectations and focus on creating games that will only sell a few hundred units. If that’s the case, Cuphead should fit that criteria quite well. Clearly some people are enthusiastic about this theme, but I don’t think it would have a broad enough appeal to sell anywhere near 1000 units. Given all the costs associated with creating a new game from scratch, I can’t see how the limited sales strategy could possibly be profitable. I hope I’m wrong.
You think BBQ will sell a few (300+) units?
Quoted from Bmad21:If(theme !=licensed)
{
Pinside.reaction("Reeeeeeeee");
Pinside.rating(3);
}
Yes. This is the reason people don't think the BBQ game is good. Because it's unlicensed. Yes.
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