Ok. I’ll bite... got a tease?
(Topic ID: 253582)
Linked Games
Barry O's BBQ Challenge (Classic)
American Pinball, 2024-
Barry O's BBQ Challenge (Limited Edition)
American Pinball, 2024
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Galactic Tank Force (DE)
American Pinball, 2023
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Galactic Tank Force (LE)
American Pinball, 2023
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Hot Wheels
American Pinball, 2020
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Houdini
American Pinball, 2017
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Legends of Valhalla
American Pinball, 2021
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Oktoberfest
American Pinball, 2018
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1 month later
Quoted from onemilemore:Lego Movie would be a near insta-buy for me. Super funny and engaging for both kids and adults - could be a lot of fun but also not the most current IP,
Exactly why they should! Great for all ages. Mass appeal. Maybe an easier license to get bc it’s not the current movie. Have you looked at the collector market for Lego lately? Prices are stratospheric for old kits and out of print modern ones too.
Quoted from Ballderdash:API should capitalize on their Hot Wheels licensing win and go after the Lego I.P. and make a “Lego Movie” pin. Collect pieces to build kits to fight bosses. Theme writes itself into the code. Collecting minifigs could work like cars in Hot Wheels. What do you think McSquid Ferret
Their silence is deafening. Legal team says: “We cannot comment on any future titles and whether or not they’ve been discussed internally.” Also Joe and Ryan... “Crap that’s a really good idea. Quick make some calls.”
Quoted from Ferret:Silence shouldn’t be deafening… I don’t believe any of the pinball companies discuss publicly their future titles, or themes they’ve considered/are pursuing/rejected/whatever. Standard business practice.
I know 
just squeezing my thumbs hoping for something awesome like that to happen! Like tonight, I got my first billion+ score on Hot Wheels!!! Achieved Rip Rod, Sharkruiser, and Twin Mill. Also defeated the cobras and timed out T-rex. Lit epic pops and loops. All the best to you and the team Joe! Thanks for a fun evening.
3364C635-5C64-4CBD-A1B0-DF8EFD387F6A (resized).jpegCCA58037-EED0-4F55-910B-780AE2414FEC (resized).jpeg
Quoted from Ballderdash:I know just squeezing my thumbs hoping for something awesome like that to happen! Like tonight, I got my first billion+ score on Hot Wheels!!! Achieved Rip Rod, Sharkruiser, and Twin Mill. Also defeated the cobras and timed out T-rex. Lit epic pops and loops. All the best to you and the team Joe! Thanks for a fun evening.
[quoted image][quoted image]
1 week later
1 month later
I dearly love my Hot Wheels. Does anyone have the design and development backstory on it? I bought mine bc of theme and trust for API quality but I’d love to know more about how it came to be and who was involved. Thanks!
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:I have liked their games, but have yet felt compelled to buy one.
This HW is only 1:50 away from you and for $6,000 or less totally worth having at home for awhile. https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/142452
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:0 desire to own that machine regardless of price
You’re fun at parties I’m sure.
Quoted from musketd:When people see Chris’s art for this they are to go crazy in a good way; it’s EPIC
Space tanks or something else?
Quoted from luvthatapex2:The artwork is cool, colorful, retro and futuristic all at the same time.
Gives me a “Fallout” the video game vibe.
AP just announce! I’ve got cash parked that I’m fortunately/unfortunately about to spend. I found a good deal on a used dream machine but If I had a reason to hold out for API, I would.
1 week later
Triple Drain Podcast guy talked about how bad he wants a GTF lunchbox. Now I want one too! API, you made steins to go with Oktoberfest, will you make Galactic Tank Force lunchboxes a reality please?!
Convo starts at 57:50
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-pinball-network/id1497645647?i=1000581569478
2 weeks later
Quoted from Daditude:I am very excited to hear an announcement. I hope there are some pics at Expo.
Has anybody heard anything? Will there be any news coming out of Expo on GTF, etc?
Quoted from luvthatapex2:AP is having a seminar at EXPO tonight at 7:15pm CST
Thank you for the info. Are there ways to stream this from home?
1 week later
1 month later
Announce before CCr LEs and SE+ ship and AP may get some people to switch. Those are taking forever.
1 month later
Quoted from dboeren:I'd love to consider an American Pinball for my collection, but it's so hard to find one in the wild to try out. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Galactic Tank Force to be revealed at Texas Pinball and whatever Nordman's next pin is to be awesome too, but ultimately I still need to actually PLAY it before I can think about buying it which either means getting lucky finding one close enough to play or going to a pinball show that American will have machines at. It also requires me keeping room and budget open until I can find one rather than buying something else first.
American - are you guys going to be at Southern Fried Game Expo this year?
I enjoy my Hot Wheels. Quality is great. Now my understanding is recent changes to their naming structure and builds have stripped some of the higher end options out. Number of speakers, shaker, knocker, magic glass, etc. If there’s a title you want to take a fly on, buy one from early 2022 or before. Some cabinets used to have 4 (maybe 5) speakers and a sub, now they’re shipping with 2. Use the pinmap and try to find some on route. Otherwise ask another pinsider if you can try theirs. Admittedly, their marketing really seems terrible I don’t know how people not deep into the hobby are supposed to find out about them. When operators don’t place them in high traffic locations there’s no passive advertising either. To a casual player, API games don’t exist.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Ferret:Nearly 100% RGB lighting is one obvious thing.
(I have to have that “nearly” disclaimer, since a couple things like the coin door and start button are not RGB — don’t want anyone to feel cheated )
Hot Wheels’ light shows are awesome!
Quoted from Aurich:That's because all those animations were assets from the license done years ago by a professional animation studio.
Not true. The skill shot, extra ball, ball save, track builder, collector case, redline mania, multiball, treasure chest etc, etc animations were all done separately by AP. Only the modes, creature battles, and other various cutscenes were stock footage from the original animation. This all blended together seamlessly.
Retro futurism is vogue. The timing is good for a theme like this. AppleTV+ has a show with that vibe. GTF could mix that with the style of the Fallout franchise and do well.
Quoted from PinKopf:Live action could go sooo horribly here, lol. Animated seems the way to go. Guess we'll see. Jokes on us, I guess their teaser did get us all talking...
Oooo. Live action makes me think of this gem. Anyone remember?
4CC43B18-19E1-48CD-BE94-82B546670EA5 (resized).jpeg57453A39-F2F7-4D26-B0DE-4844EC90B9C8 (resized).pngQuoted from Charlemagne1987:Yup. People only allocate so much money toward pinball each year. That’s the problem with all these releases coming at the same time.
8A382E64-0B72-4FDB-85FC-5B03D7AE2D36 (resized).jpegQuoted from PinMonk:I mean it's not BOND levels of botched rollout, but they certainly had the market almost to themselves 3 months ago and do NOT now. If CGC comes in with TZ remake as rumored at TPF, even worse for AP. That's Scooby, Foo Fighters, Godfather, Galactic Tank Force, and potentially Twilight Zone all vying for limited pinball dollars AT THE SAME TIME. Most people don't have the space or $50k laying around to get them all.
Throw in a free lunchbox and they’ve got my money. J/K
1 week later
Quoted from Coz:Franchi confirmed GTF lunchbox with thermos available at TPF!!
Can someone get one and ship it to me please!!!
Make that 2! Anyone able to do this? I’ll be at MGC if they’ll have them there.
Quoted from Coz:Here’s some Franchi art from Expo 2019. Feels like it could be in GTF[quoted image]
Metaluna5 Will you be at MGC? I’m hopeful to buy some of your prints. Or a lunchbox!
1 week later
Quoted from Aurich:I missed this. They did hire the Sonic game designer though right?
Ryan McQuaid
https://www.american-pinball.com/news/ryan-mcquaid-joins-american-pinball
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:AP selling 2k GTF’s already is very difficult (impossible) to believe. Not only would it be the best selling original title ever made (it’s not made yet), it did so in one day.
Not to mention while in a market saturated with other new releases. Customers would be buying more than one machine on average to achieve those numbers. Pinball demand (at the moment) is spread between 6 new titles and the entire used market. Having success selling 2000 of one title would be an incredible feat.
2 months later
Quoted from Charlemagne1987:like they did for Randy McQuaid’s Sonic game.
So there’s Randy Quaid and Ryan McQuaid. Big difference, ...I think? Lol
975F526B-6CA4-41CB-B7CD-85F2C54621F5 (resized).jpegE15B5E78-4482-4CD0-B48A-9B926EB06D16 (resized).jpegQuoted from Charlemagne1987:David Fix at FreePlay Florida last November, he said there was definitely a sequel game in the works. However, he did say that their game would not be the Whitewater sequel.
Does anyone remember one of the seminars where Fix alluded to GTF being a two-parter? Maybe it was at MGC? IDK but I heard him specifically point out the “Full” title of GTF which is “Galactic Tank Force - Battle for the Moon”. He intentionally made it sound like there would be a sequel or DLC code update that would make the mission continue into other realms.
2E0EB83F-2F91-4C26-8D82-EF8C8977ACF7 (resized).jpegDLC doesn’t make sense since the title is on the backglass. I assume he means they’re going to make a sister pin. Not sure if we’ll ever see it though based on the response to GTF thus far. Doubling down could be dangerous.
Quoted from TreyBo69:My grandpappy was killed by a kaiju. Very offensive game to me /s
I am a Kaiju. Accept my way of life otherwise you’re anti-monster. You offend ME! Lol.
3 weeks later
API should license house of shadows from pinbox 3000. See post below: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-will-be-the-next-stern-pinball-machine/page/779#post-7673905
Quoted from bobukcat:Do you really think children today know what a walkie-talkie is?
Just yesterday I gave my 6 year old a 2-way radio and sent him around the neighborhood on his bike to knock on his friend’s doors and find a playdate.
Quoted from Pyromedic:No real representation to showcase the games talk game play or features.
At MGC this year I met Jack Danger showing off Foo, Ryan White representing CCr/Pulp, and Eric Meunier hung out while we played Godfather. I interacted and had great conversations with all three of them. The main API reps I saw about their booth were Ryan McQuaid and David Fix. Neither seemed approachable as they were either busy fixing things, driving the tank, or behind their divider banners out of the public eye. Oddly enough the only API discussion I had was with a former employee Josh Kugler. Dennis Nordman for being so passionate about his GTF tank was nowhere to be found.
Quoted from Pyromedic:I love AP but was very disappointed for them and a lack luster showing. I think more than game theme and licensing, its marketing
Imagine if during the rollout they had the designer there to show off their new game and maybe a photo/autograph opportunity with one of the actors. Heck at MGC I would’ve bought the hype of a Franchi lunch box but again, MIA.
4029F031-8D77-4EA6-A00E-F6BB6979AE13 (resized).jpegQuoted from Pyromedic:Loosing Josh was a bad loss for them. When they rolled out OF! they were at SFGE that year, and very approachable and really showed the love that went into the game. Talked about all the features, had a break-out session etc. even took feedback for a code update with extra "adult" call outs for the game.. The recent changes sadly are not what made AP such a rising star. Even now I see more representation from the previous employees than the current ones. For sure though, Ferret Is totally carrying the banner and the best that AP has. Don't get me wrong Im an AP fan and LOV and Houdini are on my list, and I really enjoyed GTF even though I couldn't hear a darn thing at SFGE. as all the AP games where very low and drowned out.
It all starts at the top. From an outsiders perspective the power structure/leadership hierarchy seems disheveled. The buck stops with Fix and if he can’t steer the ship he needs to GTFo. It starts with a roadmap, clearly defined goals, delegation of responsibilities, well understood expectations, and follow up accountability. Right now I don’t know where API is headed and who is in charge of what. I’ve called a few times to get information relating to my OKT serial number, emailed about parts and ordering, and been met with silence. Only the receptionist answers but nobody past that seems to handle the customers directly. I’ve been given the direct number to the engineering group and left voicemails which have gone unreturned. It would be wonderful if API started with a who’s who on their website and offered an updated employee list with their titles. I don’t even know if the staff at API knows their actual job description. Lol. #HotMess.
Quoted from punkin:That's lucky, i left school at fourteen.
I don’t trust anyone with a neck beard or anyone who wears an Indiana Jones hat (without earning it)... David Fix is basically larping as a CEO. #ChangeMyMind
Quoted from punkin:I have enough to worry about doing my own job and making small steps myself without worrying about how strangers do their own job.
I understand your point. Taken. I have high hopes for API and hate to see them so close to success and then have it pissed away.
Quoted from Roostking:For real, something happened and AP is not the same.
Right around December 2020 perhaps?
1 week later
Quoted from Roostking:Not much room for error nowadays.
Plus, higher prices = higher expectations
Quoted from BarryJ:I left AP in early May, as did 3 other key employees.
844C84CA-1A0A-48E3-BCD1-2E92DED8CB69 (resized).jpegQuoted from chad:Wonder what other "Key" employees left....??
It really is a sad situation. I’ve made light of it but in all honesty I feel bad for everyone involved. My apologies to current and former AP staff. I can’t believe the company that produced such refreshing titles with great quality can have the wheels come off like this. The only thing I can imagine from the outside looking in is something having to do with the workplace culture breaking them apart. Shame that it couldn’t be solved internally. I own Oktoberfest and Hot Wheels as part of a four pin collection. I love them and hope that there’s more greatness to come from AP.
2 weeks later
Ok here’s a freebie AP. Do Battleship the board game. Shoot shots to try and find ships on the playfield. In each new game the pin could randomize the boats’ location/position. Destroy certain ships for multiball and sink the battleship for final wizard mode. Two player mode could be coded to allow the players to place ships before their turns (using L/R flipper buttons) and then try to attack one another during their 3 ball credit. At certain times during single player the pin takes random shots at you and works towards sinking your battleship (dead flippers). The hit/miss locations could be tracked and displayed on the LCD screen as a heads up display similar to the board game layout. Animations of hits and misses would be epic and go great with a shaker motor. All I ask is SN 0001 when it rolls of the line to help with product testing and evaluation.
5B5BC0E2-773F-46E0-87F8-D609CA773363 (resized).jpegQuoted from Haymaker:Please god, no. Unless you want AP to sink their battleship once and for all I guess. Lol this is a laughably bad idea. Might be a good idea for a homebrew but not a mass market pinball machine.
Mutual downvote activated.
Quoted from TreyBo69:...I could go on
Hungry hippo ball lock. Mousetrap boot/bucket release.
46ACA776-E956-427A-A135-9F5A140EF650 (resized).jpegB4C75336-3A47-43F0-A47D-4E2C8FA4119D (resized).jpegQuoted from Markharris2000:So many grown-up themes to focus in on. Just a quick search for top movies of the past 3 years...
So easy to just copy/paste “insert movie title here”. Isn’t there something interesting beyond the halls of Hollywood?
Quoted from TreyBo69:Yeah like AP could do a music pin... like The Who
Right. American doing a London based band. Let’s go for something more red white and blue if it must be a music pin.
Quoted from Markharris2000:In theory, but that why McDonalds and Starbucks thrive. Not because their food or coffee is the best, but the logo is instantly associated with their product. If an original pinball was titled "Race to Mars", "World of Pets", "Treasure Hunt" or "African Safari" it might be fun, but it wouldn't have a built in audience. It would have to stand on its own merits entirely. That's a bigger risk for a maker to be sure.
I don’t think every Stern Godzilla owner was a fan of the franchise before buying the pin. They bought based on merit of gameplay. Also see Medieval Madness regarding quality of gameplay and desirability.
Quoted from BrewinBombers:You've seen the British flag, right?
Oy vey. How about Kid Rock or CCR?
I never said I wanted a music pin. doesn’t matter anyway as AP has at least the next two titles pretty much locked in. We gonna get what we get. I think board games or video game themes have the most untapped potential. Hit Saturday morning cartoons too.
My other deep cut is a Meta Pin. A machine so self aware that the theme itself is pinball. Make a pin that is all about shooting the shots, lighting the lights, dropping the targets, looping the orbits, and hitting the ramps. Pinball, the pin!
Quoted from Haymaker:Again I put almost no effort and about 15 seconds of thought into this
Believe me it shows... Complain about everything and offer nothing. I can throw big name titles at the wall and see what sticks too. It’s not about theme as much as it is implementation. A tier 1 title is just a book cover to the rest of the game. Having a hit theme is a foot in the door with potential customers. Then the pinball company has to backup their machine with high quality gameplay. Sure people will judge a pin by its cover but they wont keep coming back to it if it’s not fun to play. Same thing I’ve said about other company’s recent releases (see Bond with lack of code or TS4). If the game isn’t a good representation of the license or an interesting pinball experience from that world, then I’ll just get my feels from the original source (watch the movie, play the game, listen to the band). Certainly not spend $8k to play a $20 board game. However, if the implementation is convincing enough where the experience is new, unique, or has replay value beyond what is already offered then that’s where the money is.
Quoted from Haymaker:AP, if you're listening. Don't hire anyone from Pinside to replace David Fix, except maybe me.
^
Quoted from Haymaker:thats a lot of words but unfortunately none of them represent reality
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Lol. Ego trip much?
Quoted from Haymaker:They aren't good because their my ideas, they're good because they're all ideas that will sell games.
Quoted from Haymaker:we all know location play is second fiddle to home buyers
Says the guy with only one modern game in his collection.
Quoted from Haymaker:What does any of that have to do with what makes a good selling theme for pinball?
Because you don’t own any AP pins now and apparently wouldn’t later on either. So why come in here to crap on everyone else’s ideas if you don’t have any skin in the game? Fixed it for you...
7639BB13-800B-41E8-8A86-38B2C2AA9525 (resized).jpegQuoted from Sorokyl:"bUt oRiGinaL tHEmeS WoRKEd 25 yEaRS AgO"
Yes, and they've been failing every since, as has been pointed out ad nauseum. Sure, there's cool games like TNA... but AP is not designing games thinking "wow It'd be really great to sell 750 copies.' (although they're probably thinking that about GTF now lol)
Mainstream titles can become dated after the hype dies off and don’t have the same staying power as a well thought out original idea. Avatar (huge box office didn’t translate to pin sales or coin drop). Transformers, same. Trendy ≠ Good. Original themes don’t go out of style as fast as pop culture trends. Anyone want Austin Powers or Starship Troopers? They don’t age well. Now how about Whitewater or Fish Tales?
Quoted from Charlemagne1987:Me too. I’d be all over a Sherlock Holmes even though I’m out of space and don’t really want to have to get rid of any of my current collection to accommodate a new pin. But Sherlock would be impossible for me to resist.
Now if only AP could save money by using the public domain character but land the voiceover talent of Benedict Cumberbatch to modernize it.
Quoted from johnnyutah:If He-Man can save Eternia, he can save American Pinball. [quoted image]
By the power of Greyskull please sculpt and mould the Castle. You have the power to eliminate 3D print lines!
EF6780E4-9661-46AD-8218-6936728E60A8 (resized).jpegQuoted from Roostking:I started listening and was immediately engrossed, but how do people just not do anything and listen to something? I have a hard time with that, and probably miss out on a lot..
Commuting. Yard work. Chores.
The McQuaid Sonic Spinball license debacle also caused some problems I’m sure. That theme would’ve elevated AP.
1 week later
Quoted from Yesh23:there were 2 cars in the parking lot.
Twice as many as the Lumalegz workshop. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lumalegz-you-need-these
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:Let's remember they Lost the Sonic lic too.
That was unbelievable. Now would be the perfect time to release Spinball with the success of two movies and a third on the way. Kids are in to Sonic video games again and I’m all for the nostalgia.
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:We support you in whatever lifestyle choices you have chosen.
566FC871-1FB4-4D58-8923-69A63706F151.gifQuoted from Wheyfast:I'm a newer Hot Wheels owner and I love the game. Like Mr San Ramon mentioned, not having any reference material is going to kill the company. Don't get me wrong. I love Hot Wheels. It's a fantastic game, but if they are unwilling to give me a wiring diagram, or any other information for maintenance, then they won't be in the market long. Most pinball collectors and folks that have routes, need this information for maintenance and diagnostics. Hell I already shorted a board for the flashers. I can't even get them to tell me which board does what. It's too bad.
https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/American_Pinball_Repair_Guides#Games
http://s4.american-pinball.com/img/support/2020-7/Hot-Wheels-Manual-7-13-2020.pdf
Quoted from Merendino:Press your luck! No whammies no whammies STOP
Big Bucks No Whammies. Land on $500 & A Spin
1 week later
I wonder if the license they missed for “Sonic” included all the relative assets or if AP could pull a JJP and still make a Sonic “4” type game. Maybe they can leverage sonic “pinball” or the movie franchise rather than the OG video game character.
3 weeks later
Still shocked nobody has made a Fallout pin. Having a Pip Boy integrated into the apron would be cool.
Thanks Ferret for the work on OKT and HW.
Quoted from bobukcat:Kerri: I paid a lot for these (referencing her boobs), Jack. Jack and Fix both saying she can't show cleavage because it's 2023 and it's family-friendly game.
Seriously. Hiring a Playboy model for her acting skills alone is like buying a Ferrari and only driving the speed limit.
Quoted from Charlemagne1987:I like this idea. Depending no how much it would cost, they could have players select decades or genres they want to play.
Now That’s What I Call Music - Pinball Edition
AF330330-C98E-4C88-8F15-F94BE0017386 (resized).jpeg 2 weeks later
Quoted from Merendino:All joking aside, what ARE AP's best games?
I got the chance to play a few games on Hot Wheels, it felt okay but I hear the code is shallow. I don't have much time on LOV at all.
Unless you’ve collected almost every hero car on HW you haven’t really played it. The moments in the game, set off by light shows, integrated visuals and shaker motor, as well as use of the magnet and flippers, really are quite fun and entertaining. Is there a deep storyline and code? No. But the code that’s there is beautifully mastered with many different ways to score points. I’m not a competition player but this is a game I’d love to see battled over. It’s the game I turn on most often when I’m by myself and want a quick pinball fix. Focusing on completing a race in the fastest time is in itself fun.
Quoted from Ceemunkey:still considering a Hot Wheels or a GTF
Played my HW last night and ripping the left spinner which goes into an orbit that transfers to a ramp and feeds all the way back to the flipper again is such a (cliche incoming) satisfying shot.
563FA990-1174-4532-9F2A-C3C9AA64A192.gifIsn’t Twilight Zone a widebody? Has been rumored to be remade bc parts have been ordered and talk of Planetary Pinball expanding their remake partners away from CGC could mean AP gets some work.
Quoted from HighProtein:Talked with head of sales at American pinball yesterday at IAAPA.
Steve seems like the right guy for the job. I like his spirit. The amount of pinball (and AP specific knowledge) he’s gained in 6 months shows his dedication.
*
A few key takeaways:
Next game out Jan-Feb
Next game sound by David Thiel
Next three games are original titles
AP looking to reduce cost as barrier to entry
Quoted from Da-Shaker:I really wanted a LOV, but I won’t buy an American Pinball game until they come out with stronger flippers.
Zero problems with flipper strength or feel on my Oktoberfest and Hot Wheels. Maybe early Houdinis with their power supply issues? I wouldn’t hesitate because of your concern.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Rizmo:it will make more people shy away from AP.
Including cheap looking 3D prints. I don’t mind the use of them in games (I have OKT) but they need to be cleaned up and painted. No unfinished PLA or coarse print lines. Sand and paint please! Especially if AP is asking the same MSRP as other companies who use resin sculpts. Wasn’t so bad when AP was charging less. Personally I’d rather have high resolution flat plastics and a lower cost like Stern Pros than pay more for hobbyist quality 3D printed toys. They’re a turn off on a $9-11K machine.
Quoted from thekaiser82:we talked more about AP and how they represent themselves she decided that wasn’t a company we should support.
I don’t quite understand this. Also if you buy used they don’t get a dime. Enjoy the game for what it is. A lot of fun!
Quoted from Rizmo:I think AP could do well on a Caddyshack cause they are pretty zaney themselves.
I’d love to hypothesize about AP’s theme selection, but the truth is these decisions have already been made years in advance. Barrels of Fun (even being a new company) have been working on Labyrinth for almost 5 years! No amount of dreaming or suggesting is going to change AP’s course, unfortunately. At this point we just have to buckle up and hope for the best.
Quoted from Rizmo:I do hope AP takes what they hear and tweak things. Would love to have them go and be successful
I would too. I’m in their corner. Clearly David Fix listens to Pinside, or maybe it was Franchi who convinced him, but I don’t think AP came up with the GTF lunchbox idea on their own. Credit: Joel Engelberth. They need to figure out who they are before they go any further down the road. A real mission statement and a sense of direction as a company. Right now from the consumer standpoint, AP has no identity. Personally, I don’t think they even know who they are or where they fit in the market.
Quoted from Charlemagne1987:Right now they just seem all over the place as far as theme and price point.
Was there ever a story behind why AP put resources into bringing Magic Girl to life? Zidware apparently sold two working NIB machines at expo and I’m curious what if any relationship AP has with manufacturing these?
Quoted from Charlemagne1987:point we’re making is that we think it would greatly benefit AP to be known for certain basic themes, pricing and limited runs.
And to me, for them, it goes something like this sign... I feel like they’re trying to do all three at once and the wheels are going to come off.
59B2B319-DFDF-4202-BB61-DDEDE9469632 (resized).jpegQuoted from Sorokyl:You could simply google "American Pinball magic girl" and find some history:
What I gathered TLDR: is API took on the project with JPop in 2016 in an arrangement where AP would build 25 machines (only producing 22) in exchange for JPop helping with design work on Houdini. Much later a Dutch group of friends took on the burden of correcting most of the flaws and pitfalls of Magic Girl since what JPop and AP shipped out were not much more than a box of blinking lights. Now that the machine is dubbed complete, however, I don’t know where the license etc stands for actually producing and selling more of them. The appearance of a working Magic Girl at expo last year adds to the mystery of what will happen next. As AP had a hand in making some units and also appears to have some connection to finishing the game, I’m curious as to why this doesn’t get a full production run. Is the theme and project just dead in the water? Shame for how much time, energy and money has been put into it over the last 10 years. https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2022/08/25/finishing-magic-girl/
Played GTF, love the art and attempt at campy sci-fi humor. Light show is impressive like most AP games. Turn off has been airballs and multiple attempts to fix knowing that this game supposedly had many hours of play testing beforehand. When I played it I was confused by the rails and switches under the flippers (ball trap) that weren’t being used and I still haven’t heard about their role in the rules or scoring. The launch was wonky, odd teaser videos, release schedule, poor gameplay stream by someone we hadn’t heard of, etc. Combine this with the hot mic incident on stage and David’s ever changing sales pitch... the game had an uphill battle to get momentum. AP got in their own way frankly. Their marketing lacked(s) cohesion. I heard similar opportunities were missed when they launched Hot Wheels. Back to the game itself. I have an OKT and had to deal with the membrane switches for the ball locks. I know this is a different mech but even so, GTF has been hampered by a glitchy lock and I didn’t want to go through that again. There’s one (unsatisfying) ramp and the rest of the layout wasn’t very inspiring. I enjoyed hitting the cow and saucer. I think the issue beyond all the others I’ve listed is, with so many other titles to chose from why would someone pick GTF over the alternative options? Owning two API games I know how much of sleeper hits they are and I will be giving GTF another chance when I find it in the wild. In no way would I buy it without putting more time on it first. The trouble from everyone I talk to about owning AP games is that they can’t find them anywhere to try. P.S. - the 3D prints for the money are not on par with what others are offering. Cheap & Fast ≠ Good.
The pins they make are fun. They don’t get good exposure, however. Developing a relationship with location operators would be a smart move. Offer a discount for an operator buying 3 titles all at once for coin drop. Get first off the line machines to locations like Stern does with their pros. This would allow potential HUO customers to see the game and get some time on it to build desire. Maybe make some type of tiered discount for operator loyalty buying each next new release. Or maybe an operator buy back program to help turn old machines in their lineup to new AP titles. AP’s games need to get out into the wild. People can’t buy what they don’t know exists. If they can’t try it themselves they must rely on word of mouth and what gets said about the game online. Once a game’s reputation is made the sentiment is hard to overcome. That’s why people avoid playing AP games at first but end up liking them a lot if they get to try them for themselves. The solution is getting more people trying the games!
Quoted from punkin:i don't want to wake up to this poisonous bitch session every day.
WrongSideOfTheBedPunkin
3 weeks later
For a company that had Sonic on the ropes, come back with something great. Did they ever get a homebrew competition winner to bring to market? Beerfest? Elf?
Anyone (including API) interested in Sherlock should check out this board game https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/21763/mr-jack
Quoted from Pyromedic:I think that left with Rosh. I hope it gets made at some Point. Such a great theme potential
And I can’t wait to hear where he ended up.
Quoted from Sandman33:Im still waiting for someone to do a G1 Transformers.
With fold and fight Optimus Prime head! Lol
Quoted from PinMonk:They need to get over the fantasy of selling expensive fake tanks and start cranking out the one version of GTF that has faint demand and just get past this huge mistake.
C6754BF0-9FC6-4A1C-A720-05150EDD702C.gifQuoted from rosh:pretty soon you will know what I have been working on.
Quoted from Happy81724:Princess bride????
Having met Josh at MGC last year all he would tell me was “save your money”. I’m excited for you Rosh! All the best.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Colehvac1:When does API show up to say this is rumor and not true? I guess it must be true!
Depends on where in the cycle we are
679A71F1-447D-4C27-9F20-25D41FA78ECA (resized).jpegMaybe instead of saying it was a bad culture and firing good people, Fix should’ve listened to those good people to figure out what was making it bad. You don’t come into a new job at a new company and flip it on its head. He threw the baby out with the bath water when he did that.
Oh and PS, just bc Nordman is a veteran designer you don’t write him a blank check. A critical and discerning eye should’ve made executive decisions on how much leash to give. Make a great game but keep his Tank dream in the pipe that he was smoking. FFS do you think Stern would let Elwin do something like that? Heck no. That’s something you do on your own time or maybe when you’re already running on all cylinders as a company and you can afford a one off. Mistakes were made and Fix needs to accept them as his own.
David if you’re reading this, I recommend this book. Actually anyone in a leadership roll in their company should pick this up. It’s a quick read. https://www.amazon.com/Its-Your-Ship-Management-Anniversary/dp/145552302X
Last one. If this game were in development for so long how did they not play test and figure out the tank targets? I know I wouldn’t buy a NIB machine whose central mech is going to look like a meth head’s teeth in a month. Not my job to beta test and design a better bracket. # Fix the Fix
Quoted from PinStalker:Probably a difference between the prototype and the production model.
Cheaper for the mass produced version vs. the hand built unit.
New parts, new test, no excuses. Companies design robots to do repeated durability QC for products costing thousands less. It’s literally a bash toy that can’t be bashed.
Quoted from TreyBo69:[quoted image]
(meme for fun, I don't really know if that's the case)
The Fix was in from the beginning
Aimtron should relocate the Pinball Amigos to the States and do a whole factory takeover. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/third-time-lucky#post-7530061
Quoted from Ballderdash:Aimtron should relocate the Pinball Amigos to the States and do a whole factory takeover. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/third-time-lucky#post-7530061
29D56B7A-4A00-4E54-BF2E-B5E63D4816D2 (resized).jpeg1883624E-80F1-459A-9AB6-FD56BED60AE5 (resized).jpegCC3E4847-C3A1-450B-8C33-6EB2EC157844 (resized).jpegBDDA7513-1B99-4C8D-A8E5-9F3C1234F13D (resized).jpegQuoted from Ballderdash:just bc Nordman is a veteran designer you don’t write him a blank check.
E1A8F006-77D9-4E12-8207-AF7D5A8CB983 (resized).jpegThing about themes is that a licensed one gets attention on its own merit and an unlicensed one has to prove itself. Unlicensed ones can be great... if done right. It’s already starting from behind so there’s an uphill battle to make a good impression and be compelling. Combine unlicensed with rough toys, software bugs, gritty shooting rods, deforming targets, a poor roll out, and price on par with the big boys and AP didn’t just shoot themselves in the foot, they amputated it. Lots can be forgiven when the company has earned the goodwill of customers based on prior execution, build quality, service etc. But now when it looks like things are self destructing and there are questions about reliability and longevity nobody is going to touch it. How can you expect someone to take a $10,000 gamble; especially with so many competitive options? AP will need to earn back customers by repairing their reputation and being compelling by price, by gameplay, by quality, by theme?
Quoted from gandamack:Honestly, I think the reason for AP's downfall is being overanalyzed. What killed AP? Simple: Galactic Tank Force. A bad unlicensed theme is kryptonite.
I don’t mind AP carrying the banner of unlicensed themes. They just need to execute better. I mean did anyone there seriously think plywood tank treads with off the shelf LEDs and people’s names written on the apron would sell for $17,000? I can’t imagine the amount of time wasted away on engineering and producing those additional components that add nothing to the game itself... you know, the reason why people buy the machine??? If that energy and cost went into better sculpts, testing the reliability of the mechs, and polishing the code before it was released we’d be talking about it in a whole different way.
Quoted from spoke:Did they make everyone sign 200 of decals when only a handful are going to sell?
They’ll be listed on the AP webstore right next to lunchboxes as a $99.00 upgrade.
If all you want is boobs... why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? It’s the internet after all!
Quoted from greenhornet:any period/event of past history and an unknown future could be included. The game's code could be continuously and seamlessly expanded by adding new time locations and events. Would play like a journey through world history.
Gameplay could be highly dynamic, with each moment in history having its own unique set of rules/tasks/lighting/music, which would change instantaneously every time you are transported to a new location.
Sounds like AP should license NBC’s Timeless series.
8076C588-D31D-4A5E-BAE8-D7D19428030D (resized).jpegQuoted from PanzerKraken:I don't think their games are bad at all, outside of GTF has lot of design issues I feel, but again it's the issue of competition in this growing and crowded market. This kind of goes with the whole price bubble rumblings and market scares some have, but Pinball has a heavy limit on it due to cost and space. Pinball exploded back in past few years, alot of people you meet in this hobby only started in the past 5 years it feels when you talk around. Yea some folks been at it for a long time, but clearly a bunch only just recently really jumped in fully into buying pins.
The other same issue you hear from everyone whose gotten into pins in past few years, they got no space. And so many want the newest and hottest thing, they are constantly trading or selling to get whats coming next, but it's hard along with higher prices. All these companies and new games, it's just increasing inventory of pins available while everyone is stuck with the same limited space. So many folks get whatever new stern pops out or big ip title only to be trading it in a few weeks, or couple months before they find out what next game is being put up for preorder or revealed. Yea Pinball is growing, but I think it's clear that it's not growing fast enough to deal with all these new pins that keep coming out, and this also doesn't help folks like AP putting out pins for same price as the big guys, without attractive IPs. Everything is getting more competitive, and more crowded.
Every company needs a thing to differentiate itself. Theme, gameplay, cost, quality, time to delivery, customer service, code, longevity of support, additional features like connected play, etc. AP is falling behind in what used to set them apart.
Anyone close to central Michigan who wants to try Oktoberfest or Hot Wheels is welcome to come over. PM me.
I posted this in response to someone in the stern thread but damn I tried to get AP to do a Lego pin a year or so ago. I think there was/is potential.
-
“Went into a 2nd hand Lego store called Bricks & Minifigs over the weekend. It was slammed the entire time we were there. Buy & sell new and used or retired kits. Build your own Minifig from parts for $5.00 Take home buckets of bulk pieces by volume. It was all insane and people were spending. They do birthday parties too. The market is hot. Time to do a Lego Star Wars pin? Personally I’m hoping for the OG Lego movie with Emmet, Benny, Wizard, Wyldestyle, and Lord Business.”
-
The Lego mania is as good as it’s ever been. Would be easy to capitalize on.
Quoted from sixtyfourbits:There's not many themes that could get me to buy a brand new pin, but Lego is definitely one of them. If done correctly, it could/would be awesome.
Parents will spend $$$ on it too. It’s a blend of nostalgia, creativity, bonding time, and wholesome play. The licensing of themes within Lego is awesome too. So not just original characters but popular franchises from across the board are available.
Quoted from Zablon:There is no way a generic lego pin could be done in a way that I'd be happy with. Might be better as a Lego theme story like the movies.
Easy enough. Collect pieces, become a master builder by leveling up, fight Lord Business with the kits you make, recover the piece of resistance. Watch out for Bad Cop, Cragle, and Duplos along the way.
Quoted from Ballderdash:Easy enough. Collect pieces, become a master builder by leveling up, fight Lord Business with the kits you make, recover the piece of resistance. Watch out for Bad Cop, Cragle, and Duplos along the way.
So much of this code framework could be pulled from Hot Wheels collecting cars and filling cases, fighting the Trex, gorilla, snakes and battling the boss Draven. Don’t you think Ferret ?
Quoted from flynnibus:Doubt many would be interested in Lego City Pinball or Lego Friends
It’s ok do “The Lego Movie” and everything is awesome.
3D6DF288-8512-463B-9C8D-A6AA4C4A00CB (resized).jpegQuoted from Haymaker:I will never understand people who think because people are willing to spend money on a cheap product that means it equals sales for a $10,000 product. Lego pin would fail hard unless it was based on another IP like Flynn said.
There are international conventions, video games, movies, cartoons, tv shows, clothing, not to mention the product itself all based on this “cheap product”. It’s a worldwide brand. Students learn to code and engineer with it. Plus the patent on the locking system is up so a perfect time for Lego to pump their image for brand recognition.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Price Is Right is a stronger pinball theme because it actually lends itself to pinball form. You can recreate the famous stage games. It has iconic sounds associated with the show. (I don't think it would sell, but I can at least mentally picture what the game would look like)
I’ll be sure to bring my wheelchair and denture cream. BTW how would that game have any flow?
Quoted from TreyBo69:It's just a theme idea...it has as much, or as little, flow as you can imagine.
I can’t imagine any while waiting in contestants row, writing a big check, playing lucky seven, etc. How does any of that translate into shots? I had the PIR game for the Wii and it sucked.
Quoted from TreyBo69:A big announcement? It can be anything! Get hyped!
[quoted image]
Hot Wheels is a lot of fun to play. Either way this is a step in the right direction for AP. They should definitely stream more to get visibility for their games. Since they can be hard to find on location being more prominently featured on weekly streams would be good PR.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Maybe the news is they hired a proofreader
[quoted image]
Remember when people thought the misspellings on the GTF flyer were to catch the leaks?
They said someone won that homebrew contest and Fix has said there is a “sequel” game in the works... Could it be Beerfest following up Oktoberfest?
Also nobody was forced to watch the stream. All the negative Nancy’s who are angry because they didn’t get what they wanted to hear weren’t owed anything and could’ve got the recap the next day. Some people seem to have it out for AP and while I agree there are have been tons of missteps it really doesn’t matter. AP will AP. If you don’t like it you’re free to go elsewhere. Otherwise enjoy the train wreck for what it is and be pleasantly surprised when something good happens.
My frustration with AP is that FFS they could do so much better. The stream quality was amateur hour. Their PR is a joke. Radio silence from support is unsettling. Fix is hyperbolic to the point of losing trust. Odd decisions seem to be made perpetually. And more... but you have to admit given all the flaws they still manage to put out fun and quality machines. It’s not how Stern does it, and that’s ok. AP is not Stern. And I don’t think they want to be. There’s something charming and refreshing about a company that can take risks and be themselves. We get games that would never otherwise be made. And maybe they shouldn’t have been made, but that’s not our call. So let’s just enjoy it for what it is. Deep down I think everyone’s level of pissiness comes from the fact that we see AP’s potential and want them to do better. So people are frustrated when AP doesn’t do things the way they think they should or how they’ve come to expect from other companies. If that’s the case don’t be mad at AP, be patient and constructive.
Quoted from NYP:What were the spelling mistakes, Is there a different flyer from this one: https://nypinball.com/flyers/galactic-tank-force/
Started here. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ap-s-galactic-tank-force-gtf-speculation-hype-thread/page/42#post-7484767
Quoted from NYP:What were the spelling mistakes, Is there a different flyer from this one: https://nypinball.com/flyers/galactic-tank-force/
The other two mentioned are here
1EBC551B-0869-46BC-93F4-6FE05A1F6515 (resized).jpegQuoted from PinballManiac40:I like me some rap shots
Maybe it was an easter egg for AP’s forthcoming Snoop Dogg pin.
Lot of good will going out the window. AP is burning it by the minute. If I were David I’d be packing and shipping personally to get them sent. I’m actually wondering if they didn’t oversell them at this point (due to Cary Hardy’s video) and are scrambling to figure it out.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Space Cadet but its gladiators in space[quoted image]
Who’s prototype is that?
Quoted from Haymaker:I nicknamed it Barry's BBQ Bonanza, and I just pulled it out of my ass for the record.
.
2 weeks later
Quoted from danarchy:[quoted image]
Who are you?! Every post I’ve seen of yours you’re trying to stir the pot or piss on someone. Do you have anything positive or productive to add?
Quoted from Pinhead_:Would be a no-brainer PR move to call the teaser an appetizer if it really is Food Truck.
You just landed yourself a job.
A8ACA5F5-FD28-4E37-933C-E4CB6C1B6C54.gifQuoted from PinMonk:It is NOT the code name for a Weird Science pin.
[quoted image]
Who wore it better?
IMG_1220.gifDucktales would be much better. Race cars, lasers, aeroplanes, it's -a- duck-blur!
Might solve a mystery, or rewrite history!
1 week later
Quoted from stubborngamer:Back to the Future pin with no time travel but lots of BBQ stock footage would be a bit confusing, but probably day 1 purchase for many.
IMG_1302 (resized).jpeg 1 week later
Quoted from Rizmo:There’s lots of iconic movies from the 70/80s that would be hits. Blazing Saddles, Animal House, Predator, Rambo, Escale from NY, Mad Max. American should go that route. I’m sure people would love those themes
Blues Brothers
TLDR: AP wtf?, we like you, do better.
Someone at AP needs to be responsible for saying “no” to things. Someone with taste. It’s real scary to watch them pat each other on the back and congratulate their own undoing while the company burns through money and ruins its reputation. They’re clearly not self aware of their own mistakes. It’s like the stinky people at conventions. Do they genuinely not realize they stink or do they know and not care?
GTF never should’ve been made into a tank. Deluxe edition, yes. Put the money and time saved from not engineering a weird cabinet into resin sculpts, play testing the target bank, and finishing the code.
BBQ should’ve been a one off. Do it as a tribute (qty 5) for an auction benefiting Barry. If he originally wanted Car Hop, make car hop and not some BBQ Hot Rod mismatch that they hope to sell to smokehouses.
If AP is struggling to code everything, everywhere and all at once (first don’t fire Josh) but otherwise spend the money to bring in help for ferret. He shouldn’t be working to finish code on two games already in the wild, while also coding new replacement boards, and squashing bugs while adding scorebit to existing titles, annnnd beginning work on the next game in development. We’re all waiting.
Hopefully the new service team is up and running. However, if AP doesn’t get to making games people buy, pretty soon there won’t be anyone to need that service.
I could go on. AP needs a creative director for themes, licensing and artwork as well as someone who handles PR. If Fix says he does marketing then he needs to offload it to someone else. Some podcast somewhere said David is always gone traveling and at conventions and meetings. If that’s really true then someone else needs help run the day to day operations at HQ. I’m struggling to understand their corporate structure there.
For the love I hope this company figures it out. As I’ve said before, many of us are fans of theirs; we’re in their corner. But honestly it’s getting harder to comprehend their decision making and trust that the product they deliver is worth the opportunity cost of those dollars spent elsewhere.
Quoted from Bmad21:If(theme !=licensed)
{
Pinside.reaction("Reeeeeeeee");
Pinside.rating(3);
}
I didn’t say
If(theme ==licensed)
{
API.company(instant success);
Pinside.ppl(happy);
}
else if prioritiesStraight {
ducksInRow();
collectProfit();
}
*btw I’ve only just begun swift playgrounds with my 6 year old.
Quoted from Sorokyl:Which current AP employee, who is not a contractor working for multiple shops, and who has released a pinball game are you a fan of in the sense that you think they've been important to the release a great game? Or do you just like the logo/branding?
I know people were fans of the old AP. Different company.
Good point. I like the look of their cabinets and the quality of their playfields. I respect the fact they take chances with themes that others won’t. I had appreciated their pricing and value compared to the rest of the industry. Games came from the factory with shaker, magic glass, art blades, quality speakers, powder coated legs and armor. Their rulesets were unique, they used fresh layouts and interesting mechs. The RGB light shows from the multi LED saturated inserts were ahead of the pack. Currently they’re the only company including a type of pinstadium and even that was innovative so the playfield can be lifted without removing. There are a number of things going right with AP but at the same time they can’t seem to get out of their own way. To your point the leadership and team has changed since they earned the reputation I associate with them. That is why I suggested they are on borrowed time. There are just too many choices in the market now to have flops and burn bridges with customers. AP must be competitive with quality, price, support, or theme to capture our attention and retain our business.
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There’s a missing piece in AP’s equation and I’m not sure what it is. Better PR (ex: Wednesday stream quality) is one of them. A true “face of the company” ambassador (not Fix). Someone who has their finger on the pulse and can steer the company in the right direction. Someone with taste and an eye for detail. Someone that will scrutinize the product and ensure AP puts its best foot forward. Someone with integrity not puffery.
I sure hope Mukesh or someone over at Aimtron is listening to this thread. https://aimtron.com/about-us/
IMG_1573 (resized).jpegQuoted from NoQuarters:gives me a less than genuine vibe.
Quoted from Ballderdash:Someone with integrity not puffery.
Guys in BBQ thread were talking next themes for AP. Thought I’d storyboard for them. Needed to be relatable and unlicensed. So I present to you Barbershop Bonanza! “Clipping & Flipping” soon!
IMG_1664 (resized).pngIMG_1671 (resized).jpegIMG_1669 (resized).jpegIMG_1667 (resized).jpegIMG_1666 (resized).pngIMG_1665 (resized).jpegQuoted from TreyBo69:Combine this with my other idea
Barbershop Quartet: trimming beards and cutting rugs. Every game comes with David Fix approved mustache wax
lol. Your tagline…
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