Why does everything have to look the same to be accepted? I played HW today and the head is better looking than Sterns by far.

Everybody wants cookie cutter...

Cheaper. I like AP's heads, but they are not "standard" so they cost more, plain and simple. If they're trying to get to profitability, I can understand the cut.

EDIT: To be clear, I AM a fan of the Houdini head with the cool sculpted shape of the head sides, and its whole steampunk vibe. I am NOT a fan of the oversized weird head sides on Oktoberfest, Hot Wheels, and LoV.

I want better, not cheaper.

If i wanted cheap i wouldn't be buying pinball machines.

Unfortunately, the best of something isn't always enough to stay competitive. See: BETAMAX.

If you're not selling well enough, at some point you have to decide if you want to have the best or if you want to stay in business and do a little less best so you can stay in business to compete.

Don't tell Haggis for fuck's sake.

depending of the theme, it could be nice or not... about Houdini, this is top for sure !

But this clown and his OCD is triggered.

Fuck your triggered in life. Variety is the spice.

All pinball cabinets are custom made. No company is going to Lowes to buy cabinet heads. Being 'standard' or not doesn't change basic costs to CNC some wood.

Yeah, that's my issue too. Just reminds me of some not so amazing games. It's fine and not a big deal, but it's just not a great association for me. If they switched it up I'd probably be happy just for that reason alone.

They have a new art director now, maybe there's a bunch of changes coming, who knows. I hope AP has the creative vision they really need to be successful, all they're missing is that spark.

I believe Franchi talked a while back about a new cabinet design coming in with the next title.

I doubt the head costs more just given the shape, heck, probably uses less wood. It seems since they hired David Fix the goal has been to get rid of the past, First they got rid of Joe Balcer, than Michael Grant, then Josh Kugler, then Dave Brennan and now they are changing the head design and I have to wonder if the monitor in the backglass is going away as well. I thought what they did Houdini with the monitor integrated into backglass with the stage/curtains/audience was really clever. Hot wheels also had an interesting integration, although at first I thought the off center thing would be weird, but strangely enough it really wasn't. Don't see how these changes make sense, given the main thing to complain about on their games were the theme choices and seems they are still not doing licensed themes. While subject to taste, the game play has been solid, with deep, fun rules, interesting layouts, cool lightshows and on Hot Wheels they finally seemed to get the animation stuff looking good. Seems they want to get rid of the things that made their games unique and creative and make like every other company -- less for more.

If the rumors are true that would be a plus. Personally, for me the head shape is a real turn off. I know it has nothing to do with the overall gameplay but the odd shape (yes; reminiscent of of the old Gottlieb / Premier [i.e., Excalibur]) just doesn't do it for me. Hopefully they go to a normal head shape...

I'd need to measure it, but I sincerely doubt it uses less wood. Those sides are bigger than standard, as I remember them when I had Houdini. Less yield per sheet of wood.

Aside from the UI stuff and some window dressing they added for transitions, etc, they just used existing animation from the hot wheels show. At least they knew they couldn't try to do that terrible sub-flash art and animation from Oktoberfest again.

That's because all those animations were assets from the license done years ago by a professional animation studio.

Seems silly to bemoan changes before you've seen them. Maybe they're doing a lot of things better now, who knows. I'm pulling for AP but it's clear they can't just keep doing what they've been doing.

I didn’t say I wanted cookie cutter. I just don’t like the current shape.

Agreed, you kicked ass on Hot Wheels...I loved that game

I 2nd this...Their customer service is the best in the business right now....I own pins from all the major manufacturers...They have stepped up big time on problems with my LOV, nothing out of pocket from my end, and great service and communication from Kevin at AP...Put your $$ down with confidence on this next title.

I look forward to their next title. Pins are fun and built solid… Just the themes that are killing me. Hoping for more coolness this time around.

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Don't sleep on LOV; that pin is a beast...I freakin' love it; it's an ass kicker, one more game time type...Has a throwback feel for me, super fast and tons of flow...Rules are fairly simple and I don't need to take a calculus class to understand them

They went to the trouble of acquiring a cool machine with a game concept that was different, but I just wish they didn't have such atrocious sculpts and 3D printed models on it. That playdoh odin is odious. I did stuff like that in 7th grade jewelry class when learning how to do lost wax casting - and that stuff looked much better.

I understand if it's essentially a homebrew startup, but when AP took it on, that stuff should have been upgraded. Raise the price $500 and bring that stuff up to professional levels. It would cost more up front to make the molds, but amortized, $500/unit would be more than enough to cover the expense of the upgrade. I sincerely hope Galactic Tank Force leaves that level of finish behind and goes with real molded sculpts at a professional level. If Spooky can do it with sculpts all over Scooby, AP should be able to manage it.
I mean...c'mon

Following. Forbidden planet type theme would be awesome! New art style reminds me of the Moon Patrol vid artwork.

Ok Ill bite what game is GTF?

Galactic Tank Force, the new pin designed by Dennis Nordman (Scared Stiff, Elvira 3, Alien, Whitewater, etc).

Ok. So we have a name and theme. Cool

I can’t argue with this. The only reason I passed on LOV were the low grade sculpts and the poor artwork overall. Really wish that AP had redone the entire art package, UI and sculpts. It could have been amazing with some further investment. It shoots great, and the rules are good…kind of a shame really. That being said I’m getting amped to see GTF and I will likely buy it for location.

My one concern on GTF was just answered. Software was done with Josh as a major player. That is music to my ears as I love all of his games and I think he is very creative and professional. Ferret is gone too. He was also a highly acclaimed software designer whose work on Alien and Oktoberfest was fantastic.

So American Pinball is starting over on software and a/v with their next title after GTF. Not only did Josh write scripts and code games, he also provided conceptual development, software repair and artistic direction. AP has lost 100% of their software experience and that is risky business.

It certainly is but don't blame Riot, pretty sure that was AP, it was talked about it that pingame journal edition dedicated to the game, don't recall the name of who did it, but seemed odd to me at the time that they wanted to highlight it when it looks like it does. The stuff on Houdini looks great, not sure why they did not sure Back Alley Creations like they did on that (and I think that is who did the stuff on scooby)

Cleary some were done for the game, regardless, who cares who did them or where they came from, the animations looked better than their other games. Most licensed games have used stuff created by someone else.

This was 7 months ago......
https://www.knapparcade.org/post/strong-demand-leads-american-pinball-to-build-legends-of-valhalla-classic
No it's this run that will be the final original run, after this run of Octoberfest Houdini and Hot Wheels, they will all have the same standard trim and legs, and the same uniform cabinet which means this is the last time you will see the wider head on Oktoberfest, as well as their unique powder coating colors, so they can save some money and get the machines out faster.
LOV has double the orders for the classic edition? So you're telling me it's already sold 1500 machines?
No wonder they're building a 3rd and 4th line, this is amazing news for American pinball, I'm glad LOV has

I haven't gone anywhere!

I'm still at American Pinball, I did a large part of rules and code design for Oktoberfest, Hot Wheels, and future American Pinball titles.

Ah. Offline. Never saw it. Thanks for the info, though. Pingame Journal doesn't put their back issues online, do they?

I’m hoping the new game is cool the work you guys did on Hot Wheels is some of the best code ever

Ferret is an independent contractor, and is still doing work for AP and I'll miss working with him, he was a great partner.

I don't agree, I like the artwork, and My GZ Prem sitting right next to LOV has some great looking toys on it....But I play my LOV way more, and have more fun with it.

All good, thanks for chiming in.

Ditto

Sorry Joe, I read on Pinside you're gone, might want to pack your stuff in a box.

Looking forward to AP's next release. Really hope it is at TPF.

No way do I believe they have sold 1500 LOV. Pinside shows only 118 pinsiders with it and 40 locations, and while pinside does not represent all pinball owners, hard to believe it is only accounts for 10%. Compare that with over 400 pinsiders/locations with Houdini, and I don't think anyone believes they have done 4000 of those.

They already announced that it will be. Get ready!

If they sold and delivered 300 hundred over the next 6 months or so and then decided to add another 200 then I could see how that would be no bueno.

They just announced the game. A do over this early

Working on Queen now? Let’s see what happens

Great news! Excited to play it.

Correct thats what I have herd as well.

It will be!

From Houdini forward, each AP sold through about half the one before it, last I heard not long after Hot Wheels release. So, 1000 (probably 900) Houdini, 500 Oktoberfest, 250 Hot Wheels. The bar is pretty low for LoV to be their second most successful title, but I doubt it's more than Houdini sold through. They've had a couple years to increase those numbers on the first three, but I doubt they are radically different.

With the new logo and Nordman's guidance, it sounds like they're on the right track. Here's hoping it becomes their best-seller!

Well, to be fair, it took them awhile to get LOV’s out the door. I put a deposit down on mine the weekend they announced that 300 title run, then they expanded to 600 run. I didn’t take shipment of my LOV until about a year later, which was this past fall.

Right, which would put it squarely as their #2 release, between Oktoberfest and Houdini. There's no way they've sold in or through 1,500 LoV.

Not true. The skill shot, extra ball, ball save, track builder, collector case, redline mania, multiball, treasure chest etc, etc animations were all done separately by AP. Only the modes, creature battles, and other various cutscenes were stock footage from the original animation. This all blended together seamlessly.

Those were relatively simple (effective) additions to the existing Hot Wheels series animation videos used in the game. Definitely the spice and not the entree.

Seems pretty cut-throat. I think there may have been some complexity with Balcer, but I just read that they almost blindsided Kugler and just dropped him with no real explanation. He protected the company but reading between the lines, it was out of nowhere. Really sours me on a company I’ve supported since the beginning specifically due to Balcer and Kugler. Obviously they (AP) have to make decisions for the business, but I hope they took care of those guys. Josh moved to Chicago to work at that place; took a huge leap of faith, and he’s a hell of a guy.

I'm holding out hope this will be fun, Hot Wheels was a step in the right direction for AP.

I still think there isn't anyone working at a pinball company that can write a compelling unlicensed narrative, but prove me wrong!

I keep hearing the game is going to look like a tank when its folded up. If true, thats cool, but nothing more than an easter egg really. That would certainly point toward the head being different though.

Man I want to like AP but so far I have not particularly cared for any of their games. Octoberfest was by far the most enjoyable one for me but man it is oooglay. I'm really excited to see what this game is like though. I can see it being a big turning point for AP. I love Dennis Nordman, hes probably my favorite designer and I really can't wait to see what he came up with on this game. Can't wait for the official announcement, and hopefully to play it at MGC!