With the latest Stern price increase ($8999 MSRP for a Godzilla premium!!) I think A.P. has a very real opportunity to make some noise in the market if they can get a pretty loaded game like LOV to market for $7K - $7.5K. I don't know if that's really feasible with all the supply issues and increasing costs of goods but I definitely think there's a sweet spot in there.

A friend of mine is getting the Premium and I was going to buy the pro... until I saw the pricing and the difference between the two. Unlike other Sterns, these two are world's apart. So I'm just going to play his instead.

That being said, I still have some NIB $ laying around. AP could surprise me with something awesome. I'd wait for a while though... Godzilla is going to take away so much enthusiasm.

I'm actually kinda surprised at how slowly the Godzilla threads are moving right now - maybe because it wasn't a well-kept secret as far as theme? But I don't think the timeframe for waiting would have to be too long for AP. I think it's more a matter of supply at this point.

Yeah this for me. I gotta pay 9k to get the premium.

Might as well wait and see with AP and CGC at 9k. If AP were to offer a great looking game at 7k or 7.5k, they would definitely take a step forward in the market.

I mean if ap and cgc can keep their entry level game ~$6500 they are going to be the cheapest on the market, should start seeing more on route and hopefully some more sales mean more license and r&d put into their games..... It could be a huge win.

Come on Dave Fix, present Pinside with your next production.

I think that's asking a lot in the current supply-chain restrained world but IF they did this and added the temporary surcharge to compensate for those factors I agree completely, they could take a good chunk of the operator market that used to go to Stern Pros. That will be limited without bigger licenses except for the locations that are more geared toward pinheads but could still be significant.

Seperate discussion, I wonder how much actual cost full RGB inserts and GI adds to a game? I love games with this, especially the inserts but looking at the trend Stern is taking maybe it no longer matters as much to buyers?? Godzilla only has 13 inserts with RGB and the premium only adds two color GI versus full RGB. Of course JJP is still full RGB but their prices keep moving even higher.

I know there are supply chain issues etc., but I almost wonder if the delay on game #4 has to do with AP reassessing if it is a good enough theme to get people excited. They've claimed the next two titles will be unlicensed, but I worry about how well that will play at scale in today's market. Will be very happy to be wrong and have them blow us away though!

They've said they should have the game at Expo next month so I doubt that's the reason but only they know at this point.

Holding out for thier next tiltle. Right now i would like to get hot wheels as it is a fun, flowy game but i am waiting to see what is coming out. We have houdini and we love it, build qaulity is supreb. American customer service is top notch.

I used to like him but now I can't stand his art unless he starts to change it up. If you lined up all his games and I took my glasses off I would sware they were all the same. He uses a quarter of a color pallet for everything no matter what. Godzilla was the last straw. Totally doesn't fit the classic movie feel, there was so much oportunity to do an old time japanese cinema theme. Instead more melted crayons.

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Melted crayons

I absolutely agree. That is why I like AIQ so much. His art style match the theme very well but not so much for his other titles. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is a close second on cabinet art. But total mess on Deadpool and Godzilla. Just my opinion.

Deadpool's a mess? You have to be fuckin' kidding?

I think so, as far as the colors go. Play field is not appealing.

Well, I like it!

I get lost in it sometimes after a joint. Just walking round it looking under plastics and stuff for the gems.

Amazing art.

Love me some Deadpool.

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Order a Hot Wheels and play it while you wait for game #4 .

At AP - Lets go guys - shows us game #4 so I can order one.

I, for one, was excited at Godzilla, but, the price hike for the premium makes it too much. Stern premium should not be in the same price range as some JJP’s. Let’s face it, not the same quality or customer support. I am going to be watching AP and hoping for a good title at a good price.

Lmao where have you been the last year? Stern quality and support blows JJP out of the water.

Never mind.
Edit.

I think it's fair to say a Stern Premium should cost less than a JJP if you consider the larger screen, generally better video production, full RGB leds, etc. but I would not include JJPs recent track record of quality or customer support even close to Stern. Removing the playfield from the warranty when so many of their playfields have significant issues does not equate to customer support in my opinion at all! Jack's comments about the customer damaging them in that podcast really put a rock in my flip-flop too.

I’d rather pay more for a Keith Elwin designed pin.

So, Stern doesn’t have any play field issues?

Emailed to ask the torque of the movable posts on the out lanes and was told there isn't one. Seems like JJP is helping customers damage products through unthought out commercial A/E.

Yes. But Stern sent me a new AIQ playfield under warranty. Had to pay for JJP G&R.

Will the new pin stick to the Mattel? He-man and DC seem like easy choices.

Dennis Nordman was added as chief designer. I am expecting a descent title, this time. Should be next month.

So something involving parachuting? Plane crash?

Maybe the Airport series?

PickedABadDayToGiveUpSniffingGluePunkin

They’ve resolved them. And they will answer emails and even send you a free replacement playfield. JJP will do neither

I really want to love LOV ... after seeing the shots on Godzilla I am in awe. How does Legends of Valhalla stack up in shot variety? Very curious to see what is different (if much) between the LOV we've seen and the one that (possibly) is coming.

One trend that may stick is lack of pop bumpers. Mandalorian - one?; Ultraman - none; Godzilla - one. LOV has none right?

Do you think American is going to follow Stern on price increases?

Left scoop (bottom)
Under left upper flipper
Left orbit
Left ramp
Spinner to the right of the left ramp
Center ramp
Horseshoe under the ship
Side ramp
Right orbit
Shot below the right orbit back to the shooter lane.

I hope they keep LOV to 6k or under if they make it. They will have trouble selling a lot even at that price. If they are 7k, they won’t sell many at all.

I’m only interested at 6k or less. If they can undercut sterns pro significantly that might get a lot to flock to them on price alone.

Wasn't AP's next pin already finished when Dennis showed up and his pin would be later? Granted, Dennis might have been able to squeeze in some tweaking if needed.

I think they said in a podcast at one of the cons that they have a surcharge for this year only for costs, etc. Hope they can sell enough machines.

This has been covered in this thread a few times but in the interview David Fix and Dennis did shortly after joining American they said they had changed their schedule for games - the one that Joe Balcer had been working on got pushed back and at that time he was a contract employee rather than on-staff. They said their next game would be from a new "kid" designer but the design he was bringing with him was essentially finished, this is the primary reason for the LOV speculation. Now that's been months afo and although I know manufacturing pinball games is not easy I have to think their plans have either changed, the design and engineering (possibly the porting of code to APs standard) needed more work than originally thought, supply and labor issues and other COVID (shutdowns) factors have made it take a lot longer than anticipated or some combination of the above. I'm definitely very interested to see what they have to show at Expo, wish I were going but I'll just hold out hope they have games to play and buy at both Freeplay Florida and Pincinnati later this year.

I'd like to have a Sega Godzilla. I was just playing one out in the wild the other day. It's a fun and awesome looking game! Far better looking then the new Stern!

I'd like to have the next AP pin.

Even in the American Pinball forum everyone is talking about Godzilla. Well done Keith!

Nitro has shown ‘out of stock’ on all AP titles for a while...guess they are having supply chain issues like everyone else?

I think a lot of it has to do with the clown puke color palette. That being said I am looking forward to #4 and Nordman's #5. I'd like to see what he can do with AP's hardware without Stern's constraints (Elvira looks like a watered down medieval madness, nothing like what Nordman designs).

Someone called it melted crayons the other day. Pretty apt.

I want a Dennis Nordman game with Franchi on art. Theme doesn't matter.

One Houdini just showed up in stock at Nitro -- $7,350.00. Is that a price increase?

I don’t think so.

Mine loaded with shaker, non glare glass and art blades was right at $7k in 2018

From AP? Dang. Didn’t realize they were ever that cheap NIB.

AP has increased pricing on all models due to supply chain issues & ever increasing parts cost.

Didn't they also shift to a classic/deluxe model setup?

On the new pin front, I am considering letting TMNT go if LOV ends up being announced - think they will be similar and APs aren't easy to find on location in these parts. We shall see.

I'm not aware of any changes in production... other than continuing to better quality and not including the free shaker on Hot Wheels on the next run.