must be mad about prices going up, you need a tissue for your tears?
(Topic ID: 40324)
This topic is closed.
El Cerrito, CA
Mehhhh how dare you like what I like! I am the only one allowed to like what I like! I am like a big baby at the playground who is taking my ball and going home because I am losing the game. Waaaaahhhh!!!
Guess what? If you were the only person in this hobby you would be a lot worse off. If you were the only person in this hobby I hope you can fix any problem on any machine ever made because there would be no more forums, or websites, or anyone else to ask for repair advice from. Hope you know how to fix EVERYTHING. I also hope you have EVERY replacement part for EVERY machine ever, because if you were the only person in this hobby no one would bother to sell replacement parts. No one would bother manufacturing or refurbishing new ones. Everyone would have thrown all this junk and knowledge away because who gives a shit about saving anything pinball since only one curmudgeonly asshole in the entire world is still interested in this hobby. Thats what it would be like if you were the only dirtbag left into pinball.
Everything is cyclical, everything needs to be refreshed. Change is good old man.
Quoted from Scoomie:It's kind of fun to sit back and watch the new generation of pinball players/flippers (with $) bidding up the pre-1994 vintage pinball machines.
I have played pinball regularly since 1978. Whether it was at the local amusement park, after the junior bowling league, or after school at the arcade. I started collecting pinball machines in 1998 after graduating college and getting settled.
For about 14 years, since I bought my first machine (Williams Comet), and the 15 or so I have purchased since then, it has been a great experience.
The hobby for the past 18 months or so hasn't been as enjoyable. As everyone knows the price of used games has gone up, gone up to a point that I am no longer interested in collecting additional games. My focus now is restoring/enjoying the 8 pins I have now.
I received the 2/25/13 edition of Fortune magazine today and it happened to have an article on pinball (pg 10). It talked about how new pinball sales have been declining - $ 219 million which is a quarter of what it was in 2001. Of the 63,000 pinball machines on location, presently they take in an average of $67/wk which needs to be split with the location - which makes it hard to justify pinball machines on location considering their current cost of the games.
The article goes on to say " Stern - until recently the one remaining manufacturer - has tripled sales since 2009. Good for Gary Stern, who I never respected, since he copied many of Williams ideas; but what about the consumer? Many of the games his company released during the 2000-2010 era, the code wasn't even compete.
Then the Fortune article goes on to talk about Jersey Jack coming on the scene with WOZ. The article says the Jacks effort is to make " the best game ever built". I'm okay with that, but not at $ 7,000. What operator is going to buy a $7k pinball machine? I know I am not,as a collector.
Maybe alot of you never leave your house, but I do (yes, I am married). If there were games in bars or the bowling alley I would play them. That's what myself and a few friends did up until ops stop buying games. If I really liked the game on location, it would be on my want list for my basement arcade.
Time to find a new hobby.
The sensitive people with defensive mechanisms need not reply.
Shelby
[email protected]
Welcome to Pinside, Noob.
Congrats on making such a wonderful first impression on everyone here.
So long, noob.
Quoted from Scoomie:There has got to somebody on PINSIDE who knows were I am coming from? Please?
The Land Of the Lost? Fred Flintstone's stone house? Give us a clue. 
It's amazing to me that in 50+ posts to this initial post, there is not one "real" pinball enthusiast that hasn't backed me up that the current prices of pins are inflated, and that the balance of people in the hobby are just along for the ride.
Quoted from Scoomie:It's amazing to me that in 50+ posts to this initial post, there is not one "real" pinball enthusiast that hasn't backed me up that the current prices of pins are inflated, and that the balance of people in the hobby are just along for the ride.
Quoted from Scoomie:Okay, enough of the newbies. I want a reply to my initial post by somebody who has been in the hobby at least 3 years.
Dickhead!
I'd say there is a large chunk of posts on the forum complaining about prices. Whether it be older or newer machines. I'm not sure where you're looking if you don't see that. Practically every Stern, JJP or FS thread has people rushing in complaining about prices.
Regardless, increased demand for limited product will increase the price. There is really not much that can be done.
Someone seems to be of the opinion that new to pinside is new to pinball in general.
So what exactly happened? Your favorite hangout dump your favorite game and there aren't any to be had because of the "sudden surge" in new owners?
Do you restore any of your own pins? Did it occur to you that without the "sudden surge" (tsunami, baby!) there wouldn't be near the parts available that there are now? There wouldn't be help resources....there wouldn't even be forums like this where you can complain about there being so many people that places like this are now in existence....
Go back to bed, wake up, start over. Put on a happy face. Seriously - did you know that smiling will actually improve your mood? 
Quoted from Scoomie:It's amazing to me that in 50+ posts to this initial post, there is not one "real" pinball enthusiast that hasn't backed me up that the current prices of pins are inflated, and that the balance of people in the hobby are just along for the ride.
When you say "just along for the ride", do you mean to infer that most are just trying to make money? I think it is the exact opposite. We are trying to have fun. I don't expect to make any money when/if I sell my pins. I just want to play and also have been lucky enough to meet a lot of nice people along the way.
Besides, there really is no place to play other than home collections in my area.
Quoted from Scoomie:It's amazing to me that in 50+ posts to this initial post, there is not one "real" pinball enthusiast that hasn't backed me up that the current prices of pins are inflated, and that the balance of people in the hobby are just along for the ride.
You are right I totally bought my F-14 Tomcat with the hopes of flipping it for 8,000$ in three months. I also plan to flip my Black knight for 13,000$ What are you talking about? Is your argument that everyone new in the hobby is just in it for the resale? I know full well that they will not go way up in value. I bought them because they are fun!
Is your argument that newbies are so dumb in your opinion that they don't know any better and pay too much? Then why not help them learn how much they really cost and how they can become a better buyer!
In your original post you made some remarks about pins on location and operators not buying expensive machines. Tell that to the operator near me with Medieval madness, AC/DC, Twilight zone, Scared Stiff, Attack from mars all in various bars in the bay area. And he knows full well what they are worth and does not care because A: They still make him money and B: He likes new people to get into and play pinball.
Are current prices high? Sure no one is disagreeing with you. It's your terrible attitude that no one likes.
Quoted from Scoomie:Okay, enough of the newbies. I want a reply to my initial post by somebody who has been in the hobby at least 3 years.
Does three years mean playing or owning? I just have been able to afford machines now. But playing for years.
Also is the hobby not as enjoyable because you can't afford machines? Because when I couldn't afford the hobby I still enjoyed it. I guess I'm just trying to get your point? And because you have been playing since 1978 does that give you some credibility over someone who has been playing since 1990?
You have 297 Karma points and you come here to LECTURE us?!!!
Even if you've been in pinball all your life, this is no way to "introduce your intellect" to us!
This is why we are HERE and not on RGP. This is not an "attack and destroy" pinball forum. We actually LIKE each other on here.
Go talk to Frank . . . he's probably lonely now that so many RGPer's have come to Pinside and learned manners.
Quoted from Scoomie:Holy crap, you are right MA9911, everybody on Pinside has been in the hobby less than 3 years..And has no clue on the "normal" economics of pinball
Please explain the "normal" economics of pinball? Also who pissed in your cereal today? And also who cares? I enjoy pinball and thats why I am on Pinside. I think that is why most of us are here. The majority of us are here to help out each other with the hobby and share some stories. If enough people on here keep helping pinball grow, the "good ole days" will come back and there will be more machines made and put in public again.
Btw last week I went to a bowling alley just to play pinball. It still happens.
Quoted from Scoomie:Good point sturner.
Is it a collectors market, or should the manufacturers still be pursing op's?
No harm in pursuing OPs. But I think the market has shifted to collectors/home owners. It's not that there are a bunch of newbies, just that a lot more people who grew up playing pinball have disposable income to buy their own now. The 14 year olds who spent time at arcades and bowling alleys are now 40 year old professionals with big living rooms.
there are plenty of people in this "hobby" who do it to try to make a few bucks on pins they buy, sell them to either make a few bucks or help upgrade their collection by doing so. seen plenty of pins for sale for way more than i would pay, and i wont pay that much. but if someone will, then that is their problem. people who flip pins to make money on, i wont even waste my time with. if that is your issue then move on, dont buy from people inflating prices. prices are up because people's interest in pins have gone up, supply and demand....
Quoted from sturner:No harm in pursuing OPs. But I think the market has shifted to collectors/home owners. It's not that there are a bunch of newbies, just that a lot more people who grew up playing pinball have disposable income to buy their own now. The 14 year olds who spent time at arcades and bowling alleys are now 40 year old professionals with big living rooms.
Exactly. When I was 12 playing Whirlwind in a 7-11 my income bought me a Slurpee not a pin. Now I'm 31 and can buy a WW if I want but the Slurpee is just to rich for my blood
Quoted from Scoomie:Holy crap, you are right MA9911, everybody on Pinside has been in the hobby less than 3 years..
WTF does that mean???? You saying the time you signed up on pinside is how long you have been in the hobby? That puts you at less than a year in and a baby green newb. Don't understand yer rant at all. And yes, played my first HUO EM back in the 70's so I done my time. Prices suck but it's supply & demand economics so it is what it is and bitching about it doesn't change it. Welcome to pinside tool.
I understand what your saying OP but, it seems like another version of the same argument we hear all of the time. When you were putting quarters into machines back then you didn't have Xbox, ps3, iPhones and other gadgets in everyone's hands either. Pinball has gone up and no their are not many pins on location. Their barely are any arcade games in most places either. Pinball purchasing has gone up and so has everything else. Back then in that arcade with your friends I suspect they would have dropped dead to hear in 20 years from people will buy coffee for $4.00 per day or pay $4.00 for gas. Things change and evolve. Pinball has become more of a home and enthusiasts hobby and I personally don't think it will ever gain momentum in public places again. How can it compete with all these gadgets we all have? It can't. Only those who learn it and awe willing to spend for it appreciate it. Us noobs (2.5 years here) were all intrigued and gave it a shot. It's not the noobs fault that it is gone up. We pissed and moaned when stern cheapened their games and layed everyone off. Now the other side seem mad that games are getting better again but prices went up too.
Then more noobs make the rarer used games go up too. They're plenty of us noobs that are good guys and gals on pinside. As the same with RGP. Also the same that we have plenty of new and old with attitudes too. You'll have that in any forum online of coarse. Don't give up on striking good buys. They just maybe further apart is all. Good luck.
Quoted from Scoomie:Time to find a new hobby.
The sensitive people with defensive mechanisms need not reply.
Why spew this? New collectors are great, especially new guys on pinside, they may overpay on a title because they loved playing it in the bar 10 years ago, but its their money and they learn. Who gives a crud what someone pays for a pin, good deals are still out there, Ive witnessed many nice pins on the website sold at fair prices, especially so called "B" titles from the 90's that are awesome games.
I'd call you an arrogant prick, but I would not want to risk being banned from pinside over a somebody who felt the need to start a new account just to trash talk
Quoted from Scoomie:Good point sturner.
Is it a collectors market, or should the manufacturers still be pursing op's?
Seriously, this has been beaten to death on both RGP and Pinside! You answered your question in your original post, arcades and location pins are fewer and fewer because of economics. My friend who owns a local route probably makes more money on house calls repairing things in man caves than he does on his route machines.
You act like you are "Old School" but this has been happening since the mid 90's and is NOT a recent development. If you were around you would have seen the numbers dropping from TAF to introduction of WPC-95.
Newsflash: This same posts have been done @ RGP since Gomez's speech at Expo in Oct. 99. Death of pinball, Gary's support your operator,...etc. Read the old RGP posts about MM's selling for 5k, not any different than the stuff you are claiming to be recent.
Another thing, I really don't get how you think that the 2 sites are exclusive clubs. If you would look around you would see most of the same people on RGP here, unless your saying Lloyd, Neo, Kelly, Teekee, Tracelifter, somehow are different people when posting on this site.
Why would you point people to RGP when 95% of the same people are here?
One last thing: You're right about one thing- I support pinball in the wild even driving out of my way to play it. I don't feel superior doing it.
There are actually a couple of valid points made in the OP, it's just a shame he chose to bury them in all that other condescending crap.
Quoted from HELLODEADCITY:Who is this guy?
anyone know?
I think flippeyfingers signed up another fake account 
Quoted from bobbyconover:There are actually a couple of valid points made in the OP, it's just a shame he chose to bury them in all that other condescending crap.
+1
Not what you say, how you say it.
Quoted from HELLODEADCITY:anyone know?
scoomie 1/1/03
I have been a pinball enthusiast for years but never had the room or
money for my own pin.
I just acquired Williams Comet. The operator was willing to part with
it cheap because while on site someone shook the machine enough that
the backbox broke away from it's bottom and fell off. This resulted in
the glass shattering, some wires breaking apart at the point of the
break and some of the bbox's joints loosening. When me and my
bro-inlaw, boner, got it home we steadied the bbox on the body and
plugged in the serviceable connectors and the playingfield lit up
nicely and the flippers worked. The best part about this find is the
playfield which is in great shape.
Now my questions:
First, well in the future I may want to sell or trade the machine. I
have the skills to make a new backbox. Do I make a new one ( Boner
could reproduce the side art) or is this unconscionable to a true pin
enthusiast - meaning I should just make a new bbox bottom and repair
the jointery.
Boner has experience in fixing jukes and circuitry, but I don't. I am
really interested in understanding the electronics of a pin and how to
do the maintenance personally - for I think it would be fun and
rewarding. What literature should I be reading?
These are some of the references I have found so far on the net:
Kamoroff's Pinball Machine Care and Maintenance Book
Snicer's Pinball Machines: How they work and troubleshooting Book
Marvin3m.com
One website said to get Snicer's book you need to order it from the
author in Australia?
I don't know. Let me know what you'all think.
I have been reading alot of the RGP threads, there great.
Shelby
Perth
Quoted from Scoomie:There has got to somebody on PINSIDE who knows were I am coming from? Please?
This is like watching a brat child lose it at a mall. The mother looks so helpless, you almost want to help her.
Everyone's watching. No one will help. But at the same time we all can barely contain our laughter.
Keep it up Scoomie, you're a riot.
Quoted from HELLODEADCITY:Who is this guy?
anyone know?
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that his or her name is Shelby Haynes.
I could be way off base. Just a wild guess.
Quoted from phishrace:I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that his or her name is Shelby Haynes.
I could be way off base. Just a wild guess.
That is not the intent of the question, but good call.
Quoted from absocountry2:That is not the intent of the question, but good call.
"I guess I should qualify this by simply stating I am an above average
player and have been playing on location since about '79. I have had a
one pin collection for the last 6 years (rotated once). And yes I am
on the frugle side."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.pinball/msg/078b53069236ebc0
Does that help?
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