Lord of the Rings
Stern, 2003
Lord of the Rings Limited Edition
Stern, 2009You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider lotr_breath.
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Long time member! Got mine about 8 years ago for $2600. Not that many mods, but here are pics of the shooter rod and more recently the color DMD. Was my favorite Stern of all time but I feel my love for Metallica Premium has usurped the king!
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IMG_20141114_175331_314.jpgWell, I just looked at my pictures. I have more recently switched to the upscaling version of the color DMD rom and it looks MUCH better now.
Yes, I got it from Tom W. That website actually shows a few in stock so I would jump on it if you want one. I thought all runs of this shooter rod were long gone with no more to be made.
Quoted from jsandjs:I can't believe i never noticed this thread before. Lord of the Rings is my longest owned pin. I got it new in December of 2003 and it's one that will never leave. In my humble opinion it is one of the greatest pinball machines made!
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You're right. It is one of the greatest ever!
There nothing that pulls the diverter back other than the spring. You say there is not much resistance when moving it by hand, but it really should be more like zero resistance. Looks like possibly the shaft(just like a flipper shaft) needs a little more free play(intentional slop). Partially loosen the set screw that clamps onto the shaft and push the shaft up towards the top side a small amount, like 1/2 to 1 mm. Then re-tighten the set screw. If this doesn't correct the problem, I would try cutting off about 1/8 to 1/4 of the spring so that it pulls harder.
You did a better job than I did installing that sword decal. That thing was a pain to get on correctly.
Quoted from dung:You do, but I believe there is also a 7th gift that doesnt haven an insert on the playfield which you also need.
Yes, the 7th gift of the elves is "Ring Frenzy Multiball" and I've only seen it a few times in well over 1000 games!
You need the 10.0 for sure. CPU and display roms. Get them here for $15.
http://www.thatpinballplace.com/eproms/de.html
There are several places to get the custom cards, but you will need to print them out yourself. Try Ken's Custom Cards or Pinball Boy.
Quoted from soren:Are there any tricks to setup LOTR with 2 tilt warnings?
Try utilities/installs/competition. I'd have to double check in the manual, but that is the only way to set some games to 2 tilt warnings(Tommy for example).
520-5242-00 is the board part #. The manual does not break it down into components, but they do look like just standard 3mm LED's. Of course you'd need the correct color, either white, yellow or red. The LED's are all clear. Something similar to what you would find here....
Maybe I should say that GOT can play as long or longer than LOTR. With stock outlanes and liberal tilt the game can last a very long time. Especially with EB's left on. A decent game is gonna net you 1 and probably 2 EB's. We've had some league nights where a four player match on GOT seems about as long as S-M or ST.
Quoted from Propaganda:It's becoming clear to me that it is the people who OWN or prefer games with VERY SHORT BALL TIMES who are saying this like a broken record over and over and over again.
They always compare it to IM or some other brutal game with ultra short ball times.
They want LOTR to move down in popularity, and these games to be more popular.
Of course if you are in a tournament you'd prefer the game end quickly so you can go home.
A five year old says to a ten year old, "you are old". It's relative.
It's these people who are doing this and giving it a bad name. LOTR DOES NOT have long ball times.
Compare it to an average game. It's average!
Call them out! It's bullshit!
I agree with most of what you said. It bothers me too. When I get home today I will get some audits and post some solid facts!
Here ya go. LOTR is the longest, but only by a few seconds.
Average ball times in order shortest to longest:
Tommy 1:03
Tron 1:19
CV 1:21
Met premium 1:27
AFM 1:38
GOT premium 1:39
LOTR 1:43
Also, I would like to add that my wife plays GOT quite a bit and she is not very good, so those times would be even higher.
Hard to say exactly which one. There are different gauge wires going into that IDC connector. IDC connectors suck. I would replace that connector with a Molex connector with crimped pins. Crimping pins to replace connectors is a skill anyone can learn. And if your in the hobby for very long, a skill you will need for sure. All the components you would need to do this repair can be found here... Plus a crimping tool. But to be honest, I usually do it with a pair of needle nose pliers.
I've had mixed results with the Mezel target splints. I put one on the target just below the Quorra shot on Tron and it worked wonders. Tried one on the "I" target next to the SOL on AFM and it didn't really seem to help. Same thing with the pick target next to the snake on Met. For some reason, the Palantir target hasn't really bothered me, but it does lean a fair amount.
Quoted from Razorbak86:Just out of curiosity, which one did you get? The large 2-piece splint, or the small 1-piece splint?
http://mezelmods.com/products/stern-target-splints?variant=923513721
Note: There is a "Store Owner" comment below the very bottom user review that says, "A quick clarification on this post- the Stern splints do not currently work with the Palintir LOTR targets. We have this one on our to do list!"
It's been a while ago, but I'm pretty sure it was the one piece splint. They are a slight PITA to install!
That kick out has a self learning feature as to how hard it is supposed to kick. Maybe try a factory reset, then toss the ball in there a few times and see what you get.
Quoted from isJ:+1 for you sir -- looks like we are in business!
They don't call me LOTR breath for nothing. LOL!
Quoted from pinmister:Thank you for the clarification. I still am having difficultly believing that Gomez designed the ball to take a 1" straight drop off POTD to fall onto a plastic and then into a hole. Not only is it clunky but it also tears the shit out of the shire. I do not think this was an intentional part of design, but I could be wrong? I would love to hear from Gomez himself on his thoughts on this issue.
I think you are over estimating George Gomez. 
It is clunky when the ball falls off the POTD into the Shire, but to me that's part of the charm of LOTR. Yes, my original Arwen plastic got broken so it could be a poor design. But the hobby came up with a great solution, repro plastic and plastic protector that will be unlikely to get broken again. Also FYI, I do get the very rare occurance of the ball falling directly off to the side, missing the habitrail and landing directly onto the playfield. Rarely happens, but it keeps you on your toes!
Quoted from tu71586:Question for LOTR owners who have fixed this problem:
I'm having Balrog issues (see video). When I start the game, I hear the balrog motor run, and it seems like the gears are not "catching." I've searched the forums and see that other people have had this issue too, but I haven't found the fix other than replacing the motor (I thought at one point, I had come across a post about replacing gears but can't seem to find it now no matter which search terms I put in, argh). Is there a way to just replace the gears without the having to replace the entire motor?
I also sometimes would have the problem where one of the scene modes would start (War of the Ents, Witch King, etc.) when I start a game, but it seems to be an intermittent problem and seemed to happen more when the balrog was stuck in the closed position (I'm taking "closed" to mean that the balrog is blocking the ramp). I'm hoping it's not because of a loose wire in the balrog assembly, but in any case, I'm thinking I should focus on the motor issue first?
Any suggestions would be most welcome.
» YouTube video
(Sorry, not sure how to post video in my forum post)
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=827
Take a look at this part. Listed as POTC ship clutch but it is also used on the Balrog. Try tightening the two screws that hold it to the shaft. They can work loose.
Quoted from tu71586:Question for LOTR owners who have fixed this problem:
I'm having Balrog issues (see video). When I start the game, I hear the balrog motor run, and it seems like the gears are not "catching." I've searched the forums and see that other people have had this issue too, but I haven't found the fix other than replacing the motor (I thought at one point, I had come across a post about replacing gears but can't seem to find it now no matter which search terms I put in, argh). Is there a way to just replace the gears without the having to replace the entire motor?
I also sometimes would have the problem where one of the scene modes would start (War of the Ents, Witch King, etc.) when I start a game, but it seems to be an intermittent problem and seemed to happen more when the balrog was stuck in the closed position (I'm taking "closed" to mean that the balrog is blocking the ramp). I'm hoping it's not because of a loose wire in the balrog assembly, but in any case, I'm thinking I should focus on the motor issue first?
Any suggestions would be most welcome.
» YouTube video
(Sorry, not sure how to post video in my forum post)
Your 2nd problem is most likely a switch adjustment on the Balrog pivot, the one that reads ball hits to the Balrog. It is a normally closed switch. If it is adjusted too sensitive this problem can happen. BUT, if it is not sensitive enough you will have trouble with registering hits to the Balrog. My LOTR does what you describe but not very often. I would rather leave it alone because all hits(even softer ones) to the Balrog always register.
Often when a flipper transistor is shorted, the flipper will engage as soon as power is turned on. If left in this state for any length of time it will blow the fuse. Check to make sure those are the correct 3 amp slo-blo fuses. Remove the fuse and test with a meter. As suggested, test the ohms of the coil with the coil removed from the circuit. Also desolder(or cut) one end of the diode and test it with the diode test function on the meter. Should read .7 volts in one direction and infinite in the other direction. You probably blew the diode and possibly the transistor when connecting power backwards. The transistors in question are q15 and q16. Do you have a manual?
Sounds like a good plan. I was gonna say don't pay 2.95/each for those from PBL but my go to place is out of stock right now.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/search.asp
Usually it's hard to beat GPE on price and availability on anything pinball electronics related.
Does the plunger actually move up and down twice, or does it seem like it's lowering once and two balls get past it?
Quoted from Maken:New best DTR!
2 ball DTR, naturally.
Very nice. My wife once did it in 36 seconds, which I have never even come close to!
Quoted from Neal_W:Anyone have a spare shire VUK plastic number "-20" shown in the pic?
Let me know if you have an unused one or used unbroken one your willing to part with. Thanks!
That is the exact plastic I broke after installing the PBL stronger flipper coils! I had to buy an entire plastic set just to get the one plastic. I swapped the normal coil back into the right flipper and left the stronger coil on the left.
Quoted from DANGERTERROR:Have the high power coils in there btw.
I have black superbands on mine. One of the very few of my games that I left superbands on. They look and play great on LOTR.
Quoted from Hoser:Might be joining the club tonight. Oooooooo it's exciting.
I know what people are asking for, but what does an LE (with some nice mods, shooter rod, path of dead, palantir eye, shaker) actually sell for these days?
Just want to make sure this is a fair acquisition, before I pull the trigger. A lot more than I am used to fronting for a machine.
Lend me your wise opinions.
Thanks!
Well, Pinside data says 6,470-7,530, FWIW. I have the standard with colorDMD and some minor mods and I wouldn't take less than 5k for it, not that I'd ever sell it anyway.
Quoted from gcmess:So....any help on why i have 20 volts on the sword lock coil when I turn on the game?
There should always be 20vdc measured from each coil tab to ground. The game will energize the coil by taking the signal wire to ground. If your coil is energizing as soon as you turn the game on it is usually a shorted transistor, as DCFAN stated. You said you already replaced the transistor. It may be shorted again. There could also be a shorted pre-driver transistor if there is one in the circuit. There could also be a bad chip that sends the signal to the transistor. I had this once on a Monopoly causing the flipper to energize on power up. That was a long time ago but IIRC it was an LS74xxx. I could ck the manual tomorrow.
One other thing that can cause repeated blown transistors is the diode backwards on the coil. Compare to some other working coils and confirm that the banded/non-banded side of the diode is going to the correct wires.
Quoted from Radius118:I have the same issue after rebuilding my LOTR.. I think the ball is just hitting the small scoop too fast and bouncing out. Let me know if you find a solution for this. I am thinking a blue nub of death trimmed and glued down might do the trick.
You might just want to let the game get a little dirty and maybe increase the pitch. I've never really had this issue and there are no mods in that area.
Good source for ROM's. You cannot flash Whitestar with USB. You must swap out the ROM chips. Looks like a set of sound and speech ROM's is $39.
If two balls ever get stuck in the ring magnet, turn the game off immediately. If you don't you will blow a fuse and maybe worse, a transistor. That's why some people go into the settings and change DTR to single ball, to alleviate the risk. Sounds to me like you have zero problem with your magnet. Seems more like a lack of flipper power. Rebuild your flippers if you have not. Check to make sure your game is not set up too steep. And make sure the playfield is clean. I do not recommend the PBL stronger flipper coils as you may experience broken plastics like I did.
Quoted from LesManley:Hey guys. I had the ribbon cable upside down going to my display. I think I wrecked the rom. I pulled the chip, erased it and tried burning version 9 to it again, but I still get just a blank DMD. What all should I be burning to the chip for the version 9 of the display rom? Any help is super appreciated. Thanks.
I don't know crap about burning ROM's, but why aren't you on v.10?
Quoted from gcmess:Posting this as FYI only....hopefully it helps someone.
I initially bought two SW-10A-48 based on the info I've seen. They looked good in the bag but had no caps...no big deal. But as I went to install them noticed they are thicker than the original so I removed a wafer, cut the plastic tubes, and installed them. They work but not without some bending and shaping. Wanted to try and put the correct switches in so ordered the http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=597 500-6889-01. These came with caps but are too short (2 3/4 in.) to reach the buttons. I assume I could mount them higher on the cabinet and get them to work. So....there is one left to try I think
SWITCH - FLIP CAB "PALINEY"
#500-6889-01
Single flipper button cabinet switch assembly with the new low-arcing "Paliney" alloy contacts.
Replaces:
500-6889-01
180-5160-00
Replaces the 500-6889-00....but these look too short also. Original switch is roughly 3.5 in long. I've attached a pic of my original switch and the 500-6889-01 switch. Welcome any comments and help.
You could try prying the switch stack apart. Put the longer actuator leaf onto the stack with the correct cap and contacts. It was years ago when I replaced mine and I believe I went through the same trouble you're having.
Quoted from AUKraut:Playing my new-to-me LOTR some, doing some adjustments here and there. A Couple of Questions for the collective:
1) What would cause a Mode like Warg Battle just start on it's own without hitting the ring?? Seems like the modes just start on their own, especially after a quick 1-2 hit on both flippers (but not every time).
2) Does anybody have a spare red plastic that surrounds the right yellow flasher dome by the right flipper??2 Mine is warped from a flasher bulb that overheated.....
1. Could be the optos at the ring entrance are flakey.
2. I can ck and see. I do have a few spare plastics for LOTR.
It drives me nuts when I see people post pictures of blinged out games with colordmds, custom shooter rods, lighted speakers, etc, but still have those fugly yellow Stern price cards. I mean, almost anything is a step up from that!
LOTR Black Arrow. 
Quoted from jbovenzi:To the fantastic LOTR fixit team,
I have an issue that I can't seem to fix. Machine works well but upon shooting the ring during normal play, the ball gets stuck in the Ring well and does not drop out onto the playfield or go through the ring and get onto the habitrail.
I think that I have worked it out and it's mechanical. The spinner switch is working well and the Optos are fine as I checked this in the switch matrix. The ball comes in during a mode and just sits there. No movement after the magnet turns off. Checked this with a paper clip and I see that the magnet turns off. Doesn't seem to be a problem electrically.
If I push the ball through with my finger, it goes to the back and everything is fine. Ball returns to the habitrail and play proceeds. Also after the mode is started, the ball goes through the ring and through to the back normally.
Do I need to rebuild the ring assembly? A shim to give it more angle to drop backwards?
Just asking the collective...
Thanks!
Could it be magnetized balls? I mean the ball should fall forward by gravity or get sucked to the back by a pulse of the magnet. Take two balls and put them on a flat surface like a table and see if there is any attraction.
I also like black on LOTR. It is an intentionally dark game and I think black rubber suits the playfield just fine.
Quoted from hawknole:I confirmed a noise with the switch next to my ring ramp (aka Frodo ramp). That micro switch makes a strange noise occasionally when activated. It is a low buzz, almost sounds like a short. It doesn't happen every time the switch is engaged and nothing seems adversely effected, just the noise doesn't sound right. Does anybody else have such a noise? If this is normal then I won't bother to replace the switch. Or is there some adjustment I can make to the switch?
That switch triggers the ring magnet. Do you think that could be what you are hearing?
Quoted from fnosm:How do you know if your pf has the better color registration?
The color registration was off on many LOTR playfields. The easiest place to see it is in Frodo's eyes. If it's off, his eyes look red. On my playfield Frodo looks positively stoned.
Easiest way to troubleshoot this would be to put the game in "ball clear" mode. Cycle through ejecting balls while watching the display. You should see a problem.
Quoted from AUKraut:lotr_breath had his LOTR set up for a tournament that was held recently that made LOTR play NASTY without any actual playfield changes except the outlines being wide open!!!! It was a real challenge to get ANY multiball, all done by settings changes. Things like the KEEP lanes turning off when they were rolled over when lit.....Maybe he can share those settings with us????
For that tourney I had the outlane posts removed and the inlane posts rubber removed. Tight tilt. Game cleaned and waxed. Fresh bouncy red flipper rubbers. I had all three MB's set to either hard or extra hard. Of course EB's turned off, Specials set for points. I have the extra strong PBL coil on the left, but the normal coil on the right. It was still the longest playing game but it was very reasonable. I set a bounty score of 40M and only two players broke that. The HS was about 52M.
Quoted from Gunnder:Hey guys out of the blue the ring shot just keeps triggering on its own. Just started happening. Basically as soon as you hit the start button one of the modes starts. Something to do with the ring magnet maybe? What should I look for when I look under the hood?
If it's at the beginning of a game it could also be caused by the switch inside the Balrog. This is a normally closed switch, meaning when the ball strikes the Balrog the switch opens. When you start a game the Balrog swings out and sometimes triggers the switch causing a mode to start.
Quoted from kingau:HI every one
I just joined the lotr club a month ago, and I ran to a problem..
the pop bumpers and balrog, Dark Riders flashers don't flash anymore.
I looked under the playfield, and the connectors and everything is in place.
Has any one here ever ran to this problem?
could this be a bad cap?
Thanks in advance
Have you checked the fuses?
Quoted from kingau:thanks for the quick replay guys,
I change all the fuses and still have the same problem.
is there a connector just for that set of flashers in the back box?
It's J6 on the power driver board. The fuse is F7. Do any of the flashers work? I would try replacing the individual flashers if you haven't yet. Check the 20vdc test point on the power driver bd. to make sure the 20v circuit is working.
I recommend to any LOTR owner to download the manual. It's free!
http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=lord+of+the+rings&sortby=name&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick
Here is a snip from the manual that shows the original coils part number.
Quoted from pipes:Damn, there's just so many things you need to do to get this game playing properly.
Not from my experience. All I did was rebuild my flippers and solder a wire back onto the Gimli upkicker. 10 years later and a couple of fork switches and that's about it.
I have always heard that removing windings will increase the current which will make the magnet stronger. I found this that makes me believe that is correct.
Quote:
More current = more magnetic pull
Ohm's Law ... I = V/R where,
...I = Current
...V = Voltage
...R = Resistance
Holding voltage constant, reducing resistance (with fewer windings), increases current.
There are tradeoffs.
I'm sure a bonafide EE can chime in.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info
Quoted from wxforecaster:Balrog bashing. Seems I've got to smash the living hell out of mine to register. The switch itself is fine and tests normal, but it seems that there's an awful lot of distance for Balrog to travel. Hitting the bottom of the toy forces the top 90% of it to lean forward, opening up the normally-closed switch. Given the weight of the toy and the tension of the spring, it just seems to be unfairly favored in not registering via a ball strike. Has anyone either changed out the spring or put something behind the toy to reduce the horizontal travel distance needed to open up (register) the switch??
I had to bend the switch arm slightly so that the switch opens up sooner. It's a delicate adjustment but I couldn't live with the 50% or less hits mine was registering.
Yeah, from the left flipper if the shot is hit clean it should go into the ring like nearly 100% of the time. The right flipper shot is angled a bit different but should still stick the majority of the time if hit cleanly. I would ditch the lightning flippers. It's not how the game was designed. There are other ways to make the game more difficult than messing with the most important part of any pinball machine. The flippers.
Quoted from paynemic:I have definitely had this happen. It happened to me when the vuk sends it just right and it starts immediately through the lanes (rather than bouncing around at the top a bit). It’s almost like the switches weren’t ready yet. Or the game isn’t counting them yet. Those same switches work fine when there is a pause after the vuk
I remember an adjustment that was added, something like "Ignore path of the dead on kick". It is to prevent the path switches from registering when the upkicker fires the ball. Maybe try changing that setting and see what effect it has?
Quoted from Lamprey:I got lucky yesterday and found a, supposed, HUO Lord of the Rings. It is in just about perfect shape and unmodded, except for a color DMD and some cliffy's. I don't want to use the term "minty," but it looks just about brand new. Supper pumped!
Thing of beauty! You don't see many like that.
Quoted from Damien:So where exactly is that PCB? Tried looking under the pf, but see nothing there.
Also, detached the wire harness that goes up to Balrog (switch and bulb I believe) and humming sound persists.
That Balrog flasher socket is in the circuit for F7. I would replace that socket cause I've never seen anything like that. It could be shorting. If you're still blowing the fuse with the Balrog disconnected, it could be Bridge Rectifier#2. Try disconnecting J6 and J7 to rule out anything on the playfield. If F7 still blows, I would say it could only be a shorted B2. Do you have a meter and do you know how to check a bridge rectifier? Stock up on 5 amp slo blows. You're probably going to go through a bunch to get this problem solved.
balrog socket (resized).JPGbridge2, f7 (resized).JPGlotr playfield (resized).JPGrelay pcb (resized).JPGThe relay is "O" in one diagram and "20" in the other. It is on the underside of the playfield near the gifts from the elves inserts.
Quoted from Jgel:I might be going to look at a LotR machine soon. Any particular thing that I should be looking for? I am unfamiliar with the title so any help would be great.
See if the One Ring shot can be made and the magnet grabs the ball. Look for excessive wear around the flipper buttons. Look at the Arwen plastic between the Paths of the Dead and the Shire. Is it cracked? Is Arwen actually on it? Protector installed? Do hits to the Balrog register OK?
Quoted from northvibe:make sure ballrog works, see if there is pf wear from him swinging out as well.
Mmm make sure the little figures are around the pf.
Check the ring shot and make sure the magnet holds the ball, then flings it inside to the ramp.
Check arwin plastic, see if that is there or replaced, or protected. That plastic is super rare.
LOL, we posted at the exact same time!
Quoted from Damien:Can anyone confirm if the cab and back box speakers run off the same amp?
Looks like there are three TDA2030A's, U100 - U102 and each one drives a speaker. I can't tell which one drives which speaker from the schematic. They are just labeled 1, 2 , 3 at CN4. You could check the wire colors I suppose to see which speaker is which.
lotr sound (resized).JPGQuoted from Pin_Guy:There are actually only 2, every component marked as "NS" indicated that the component position is Not Stuffed, so there is actually no part on the board.
Oh, Not Stuffed. Cool. I learn something everyday!
Quoted from Jimmyhonda:Hello, my LOTR is playing fine and works great. However, every single time I power it up, it doesn’t recognize the balls and searches. After the timer goes down, everything goes to normal and works great. Everything also works great from game to game and the machine recognizes balls just fine. However, if I power off the machine, and power it back up, it searches and searches for balls again? I don’t get it? Any idea what’s wrong??
Sounds very possible that it doesn't have the correct number of balls in it.
Sometimes when lock is lit on my LOTR, when the ball is kicked up from the Gimli hole to the sword lock it will award a lock. I'm pretty sure it didn't always do this. Anyone know what would cause this? Thanks!
Quoted from LOTR_breath:Let me guess. Broken #20 plastic = PBL special flipper coils?
Let me re-phrase. That's how mine got broken.
Maybe I'm missing something, but why would you have to re-align the flipper bats if your just replacing the coil? Just remove the coil stop, slide the old coil off, slide the new coil on. No need to take the plunger and link loose from the flipper bat, AFAIK.
Quoted from Lethal_Inc:Has anybody changed the LE back glass to the standard translite? Since the LE is painted glass I suppose you would need a new frame to mount the standard translite.
There's really not a "frame". Just plexiglass with the translite taped to it. Then the 3 plastic trim pieces and the bottom lift channel. All the plastic pieces are available from PBL, Marco, etc.
Quoted from Damien:This is all you will ever need:
https://www.pinballlife.com/blitz-carnauba-paste-wax-12-ounce-jar.html
Vid recommends it, and pretty much everyone that uses it, swears by it.
I agree, the stuff is great. But I bought the really small jar and it has lasted me for years.
The issue on some(many) LOTR playfields was color registration. In order to create colors correctly, the Y,M,C,K have to lay EXACTLY on top of each other. When they don't, you get a magenta halo effect around the images. That is why my Frodo looks stoned out of his gourd. It also doesn't bother me because so many of them are like that and it still looks and plays great!
Quoted from Gogojohnnyquack:My Ring magnet is not grabbing the ball. Fuse 20 is good. Connector to magnet is good, though that diode stuck in there is a new on on me. The spinner registers hits. What am I missing?
Does the magnet work in solenoid test? Does the opto in the ring register in switch test?
Quoted from PhantomO:Question on ball trough maintenance. When there are only 2 balls in the trough, they dont have enough weight to roll down to the vuk. I have to shake the machine to get them to roll. The switches seem normally positioned. It just seems like they arre sticking to the wallshat is a good strategy to solve this? Clean and polish the trough?
[quoted image][quoted image]
You can clean the trough, sure wouldn't hurt. But I think your balls may be magnetized. Have you tried new balls?
Quoted from Gogojohnnyquack:The magnet does not work in solenoid test (with the coin door closed!). The opto works in switch test.
You said fuse f20 is good. Did you pull it out of the holder and check it with a meter?
Did everyone see John Rhys-Davies on the Twipy awards? So awesome! He did some live LOTR jackpot callouts and presented the award for best callouts. Pretty epic if you are a LOTR fan. Gimli starts around 22:59
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/400246769?filter=archives&sort=time
Quoted from Gogojohnnyquack:I double-checked the fuse and it was actually blown. I'm sure that I checked the correct one the first time but when I checked it the 2nd time it was indeed blown. I upgraded it to to a 4 ohm as I've read is recommended and haven't had a problem since. One bit of advice - if you go into the built-in help menu it takes you through a troubleshooting procedure, one of the later steps is to use a wire and short the tab of the magnet transistor to ground to test if the transistor is good and the magnet energizes. Mine tested bad (because the fuse was blown) but I decided to try shorting some nearby transistors to see what would happen. Well, what happened was that I got a spark and blew two transistors , so DON'T DO THAT! I had to replace the 2 transistors and the blown magnet fuse and now all is back to normal with no further issues after several games.
Just for clarity, that's 4 amp, not 4 ohm. Glad you got it fixed!
I would check the voltage at the test points on the CPU/sound board. You should have 12 volts at pin 5 of the output transistors. The output transistors are U101 and U102 in the diagram, part # TDA2030A. Can you test the speakers? Do you get any sounds in the sound test menu? Tried raising and lowering the volume with the coin door switches? Also, CN4 would be the likely connector.
I once had a Sega with sound issues and the -12volts was not right. Ended up being a bridge rectifier.
Quoted from Yodamingus:Finally a straight up question ..
Now that my Ring Magnet is working again it grabs the ball ..
But then it wavers a bit and sometimes falls out the front of the ring rather then getting pulled backAny thoughts on this ?
I figure that it should always pull it back and through to the rail ?
The game is level .. ?
Wiggling some in the ring is normal. This is dependent on pitch, not level. You might try adjusting the pitch. Also, what ROMs are you running. On the latest(10.01?) if you press both flippers while the ball is in the ring it will fall out of the front intentionally.
The threads on the top of that post are trashed. Just replace
the post. I'm not sure if that washer even belongs there. The post
that Neal_W linked above does appear to be the correct post.
That game is beat to shit. It could be made decent with a lot of TLC. Probably has well over 10k plays on it.
Quoted from JHPSWE:Restore done. I’m happy[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Drool....
Quoted from Lazar:Adaminski,
Thanks for the extensive thoughts on potential issues. After reading through all of it, I found fuse F8 to be blown. I replaced it and then it blew immediately upon restart. Any thoughts about what this might be? I appreciate the help.
Bridge rectifier B3 bad possibly?
Quoted from PantherCityPins:I’ve moved it as far down as it will go with the stock location of the wood screws. Any lower and I either have to remove the wood screws or redrill the holes and install the wood screws lower. It works as is, I’ll probably end up just pulling the screws out and using the friction from the housing bolts to hold it in place like the Williams machines do. I was just wondering if anyone had a similar issue and there was something I was missing.
Maybe instead of the shooter too high, the playfield is too low? Are the hooks bent? Can the lock down bar receiver be raised up?
Quoted from PantherCityPins:Another question, where do most people have their out lane posts set? Mine is set on the hardest hole which is apparently how it came from the factory but I am considering moving to the middle hole in a home environment.
My outlane posts are removed. Inlane posts have no rubber. Game is still plenty playable.
Quoted from chubtoad13:I’m having an intermittent issue with the ball lock mech on the sword ramp. Sometimes it goes down and back up before it releases a ball. It doesn’t always happen but when it does it seems to be when there are 3 balls in the lock. Is this a common problem?
Everything looks clean. The spring is seated correctly. Any help or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!
Magnetized balls
The magnet hum is normal. If it is super loud just check to see if the screws are loose causing more vibration than normal.
Quoted from lhammer610:Epic fail on a LED conversion. It is too bright. I figure I now have to splurge on an LCD OCD to make the transitions smoother, but many of the lights are still too bright. Problem areas include:
*The green lamps on the Paths of the Dead - switch back to green incandescents?
*The clear inserts in the semi-circle in front of the flippers - go to a yellow color?
*The yellow flashers up front - back to incandescent
*The wired flexible LED behind the acrylic globe - I will put a standard red LED in there.
*The one GI below the left wire ramp - that really should have a plastic covering it - remove it altogether? - Make a plastic for it? - would have to fit the plastic around the screw / wire holder to that ramp.
*I put in white LEDs on the ring in the back panel. They are slightly annoying. Might have to change them to orange?
What have others seen?
The LEDs are single SMDs from Pinball Life. I think they have changed LEDs recently, maybe gone from 3528 to 5050?
I had good luck on my LOTR just using colored incandescent bulbs. I used a few LED's in key inserts like the KEEP letters. I used some amber incandescents in some of the GI. The effect is very subdued and IMHO looks great.
Quoted from insx:My end of stroke switches (at least that's what I think they are) don't seem like full switches and nothing goes close enough to activate them anyway. What are they supposed to look like?[quoted image]
You have a blade broken off and missing. The white plastic piece is what actuates it.
Quoted from MSLONEKER:Flipper question. Watched some videos today about getting good. All about flipper technique. He was showing light taps make the flippers move just a little. My lotr is all or nothing. There is no light tapping, there nothing until it engages then its a full slap.
Tap passing is for older solid states and Em's. Modern games are extremely difficult to tap pass on, but I have seen a few players who could pull it off rarely.
Quoted from red-line:How many different people do you guys think have been to Valinor? Under 1000?
Under 200, legit with glass on.
Quoted from Lamprey:Does LOTR have "fading" GI?
I had mine for a month or so before I converted to LED and I never noticed the GI fading: it was either on or off.
I have an extra GI OCD, but I never saw the need to add it.
There is a really sweet fading "effect" done by the lamps next to the shooter lane. I actually don't know if these are GI or controlled lamps but the effect looks really good.
Quoted from TheShaft:Just started my pinball journey a few weeks ago, and I have a set of pinstadiums coming to go in my LOTR. Looking for any info as to which lights I need to make the connections to. Thanks.
Any GI light will do. For the flasher I would just pick whatever flasher goes off with the spinner. I've got the backbox LED mod which is tied to the spinner. It's a nice effect.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:Does anyone have a tip on how to slightly lower the power on the PBL flipper coils? I replaced my stock ones and the PBLs ones are slightly overpowered. The flipper mechs have all been rebuilt with new bushings, etc so it may calm down a little over time? I'm just getting airballs off the Palantir target, flying off the Legolas ramp, etc.
You could try these adjustments. Just be sure to jot down the current adjustments, in case you need to go back to where they are set now.
lotr flipper adjustments (resized).JPGlotr page 2 (resized).JPGGame looks good and your skills look good! I haven't seen LOTR with Pinstadiums before. Some will say it doesn't fit the dark theme but I think it looks good. The only thing I can suggest to improve would be to get a colorDMD. All that bling and having the old orange display clashes a little bit.
Also, the Palantir Mod by Aukraut looks incredible. Pricey, but worth it.
Quoted from Metroshica:Welp, figured it out. Apparently, the top one can be pulled out and locked to always be on. I guess when I pushed it in to test the coils it popped out and I didn't pop it out. I feel really stupid and I'd love to delete this to hide that. However, I'm going to leave these here in case someone else is a dumb as me and runs into this as well. Thanks for the help neal_w .
Very strange. I would say your interlock switches need to be moved or it has the wrong coin door. That bracket on the coin door pushes both switches closed on mine.
I'll have to say, it sounds like a grail game for you. It looks very nice. $7K is NOT 2K over priced. It may be 500 to $1000 overpriced, but it is available, it is nice, and it sounds like a grail pin for you and your girlfriend. I say if it's worth it to you, go get it now!
Did you say it would have to be shipped, or is it local?
Quoted from MSLONEKER:So all the GI14 are out. White/lavender. I checked wiring all the way to the back box. Pin GI14 on the GI connector is only putting out 1.5v. I checked the common for that wire (lavneder) and it conducts 6 volts when checked against white/green pin13. nothing looks burnt. where do i go from here. and can i just splice white/lavender onto white/green. its all LED lighting.
Have you checked fuse F27? And no, do not start splicing wires together. That will only cause more issues later on.
Quoted from StrangeSubset1:Does anyone of you have an extra one of these plastics by any chance? Don't really want to spend close to $300 and buy a full set of plastics.[quoted image]
Today is your lucky day! PM sent.
20200413_135556 (resized).jpgQuoted from silver_spinner:i posted in the tech section but since this is a LOTR post i was curious if anyone has had this issue:
An odd one. Lord of the rings, did work fine. Turned game on, started to play, left flipper died. Fuse next to flipper blew. Replaced fuse, upon power up flipper sticks up and blows instantly. All wires to coil and eos as fine, not broke off..same with flipper cab switch. Pulled driver board, left flipper driver transistor was blown (Q15). Replaced driver transistor and fuse. Power game up, flipper sticks up, blows fuse instantly. Pulled driver board, it blew the new transistor. So now, replace transistor again and replace fuse and added a new flipper coil for giggles. Power game on, instantly blows fuse and fries new transistor again. What else?
PS: i tried the driver pcb in another game and it works fine after i replace the transistor for the left flipper.
it only blows the transistor and fuse when its installed in LOTR. I've owned this LOTR for 15 years. Nothing has been messed with.
can the mpu make something odd like this happen?
MPU cannot cause this. I have seen repeated fuse and transistors fail on Whitestar games. There is a 74LS??? upstream of the transistor that can fail. Moving the board to another game and it works may indicate a problem with the coil you installed on the third go around. Sometimes doing too many things at once can muddy up the troubleshooting. You might try putting the original coil back in and see what you get. Take ohm readings on the original coil and the new one.
Quoted from RobDutch:Nobody that can help me with my Balrog? (Post #5870)
I think it must be something easy, but I don't see it
One possible thing. Look for the clutch/torque limiter that the Balrog shaft is attached to. Make sure the screws are tight.
500-7011-00_287x300 (resized).jpgQuoted from yyyyyikes:I don't know if anyone else here has come across this - or there are different versions of the game...
In the endless quest to fix everything wrong with LOTR, i'm now focusing on the Right Tower. It has a blown Transistor so i'm replacing both that and the coil.
However, the manual states that the coil 23-800 has diode on terminal strip. I don't seem to have a terminal strip and there is definitely a diode on the coil, it's an 090-5001-0B which looks original and has worked in the past. I'm guessing they changed this design at some point in the manufacturing?
Anyhow, just wanted to see if other people's is the same.
Another strange thing, and yes I only noticed this today!...both my end of stroke switches are missing on the flippers. One of the strips on each has been snapped off. I thought this was strange as surely this would mean that the flippers have been working on low power? or does the game recognise that the switches are missing and give them full power? anyway, ordering 4 replacements as Spiderman looks a bit bent also.
All modern Stern flippers will still work, even without the EOS. The coil is switched to low power after so many miliseconds, whether an EOS closure is detected or not.
Quoted from PinballTilt:I'm hoping someone can help with an lotr issue I'm having. Recently added the 10.0 CPU and display chips along with the le pal chip to eventually add a shaker to the game. Everything seemed to be working good except I noticed the ring wasn't grabbing the ball. Blown fuse, so replaced it, turned the game on, and heard the magnet lock on.
Checked the transistor and it was shorted. So replaced that. Checked the magnet and magnet diode and they appeared fine. Put it all back together and first time the magnet grabbed the ball it wouldn't let it go so I killed the game. Turned it on and magnet locked on, so transistor is toast.
I'm wondering if anyone else has had problems with the ring after adding the 10.0 ROMs. The chips are all firmly seated, the notches are all correct, everything works except the transistor that keeps blowing. Not sure how those chips could affect only a single magnet/transistor
I'm thinking the magnet and ROM replacement are unrelated. I have seen a Whitestar (Monopoly) with a locked on transistor caused by the driver chip. In this case the magnet is driven by Q6 which is driven by U1 which is an HCT273. They are 45 cents at GPE.
Quoted from RobDutch:My ring magnet stopped working, where to look first?
Is it normal that they work for a while and suddenly stop working?
If fuse is blown, make sure to upgrade from a 3amp to a 4 amp fuse.
Quoted from WizardsCastle:Having a strange issue with Balrog. I'll sometimes start Fellowship MB and no hits to him register, and the following game it will work fine. It seems completely random.
I also noticed tonight, that no hits were registering, but when the ball went into the Shire, a hit registered.
Not sure if it was a phantom hit, or something else.
Anyone?
Sounds to me like broken wires in the harness. Very common because of the Balrog's movement back and forth and eventually the wires break. You'll need to remove the Balrog and harness(very easy) and work at a table. I had to cut away the protective sheath to find the broken wires on mine. I was able to just cut, strip, twist, and solder and it has worked fine for over ten years.
Quoted from red-line:I sent an email over to Margaret. We'll see what she says. I'm not exactly sure how to check whether the ring is switching to "hold", but I'll look into it. I would think that would have affected the old balls as well, tho.
Sounds to me like they sent the wrong type of balls by mistake. Pinballlife is very good but they have on occasion sent me the wrong items.
Quoted from Lostcause:Was cradling on the left flipper on my LE for some time and it stuck up so switched straight off, coil was very hot and smelled of burning.
Now when powered on flipper sticks up and returns down when powered off.
Do I just need to put a new IRL540NPBF transistor in and does the coil now need replacing?
So annoying was having one of my best games!
The IRL540 should fix it. You might want to check your flipper fuse and make sure it isn't over fused. Often when the transistor shorts it will often blow the fuse and it sounds like yours didn't for some reason.
Quoted from Bigbossfan:A little miffed here. Picked up a LOTR recently, was missing the blue nub of death, the bracket and the screw. Ordered the bracket and nub from Marco assuming the small screw would come with the bracket. Nope, they shipped it without the screw to secure it. Ridiculous. In any event, hope someone here can point me in the right direction. In the manual, it says it's secured by #4-40 x 5/16" Am I reading this correctly, that is the screw size correct? I have to assume something that size is going to be very difficult to find.
If that is correct, does this appear to be the correct screw? https://www.fastenal.ca/productDetails?query=0173844
Thanks in advance!
https://www.pinballlife.com/4-40-x-316-screw.html
Slightly shorter but should do the trick. It even mentions blue nubs of death(BNOD) in the description.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/4004-01041-04
Another at 1/4 inch(4/16) length.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/4004-01041-06
Another at 3/8(6/16) that may need to be cut as mentioned above.
And just for the record, there is no way I would have expected the screws to come with the bracket.
Also, your Fastenal screw fits all the specs exactly. The picture is just dead wrong. The screw in the pic is way too long.
Quoted from Metroshica:I bought a LOTR about six months ago and while I love it, the last owner put so many weird colored LEDs in it that it looks like it belongs in a casino. I bought the OCD board and while it made it better, I just can't deal with all the weird colors. Instead of trying to find the right LED color, at this point I just want to revert it back to incandescents. Is there a list out there of how many incandescents I need? I have no problem buying more than I need since they're so cheap but I want to make sure I have the minimum at least and all the right part numbers. Any help here would be greatly appreciated.
From the manual. Probably close to accurate.
lotr bulbs (resized).JPGQuoted from BENETNATH:Bye Bye the club.
I sold my LOTR for a Turtles.
too long solo games, versus family friendly coop mode.
I know I'll miss you, but pinball is even better when pleasure is shared
enjoy !
While that makes me sad, I totally understand. I sold my Tron to be able to afford a JJ POTC. I never thought I would sell that game I'd had since NIB.
Quoted from Mjr_Knockout:You wouldn't have a picture of the y switch on gimli and how it is wired under the play field, I think there's supposed to be a diode there, and I am still searching.. I am having an issue with past work done on the machine.
Thanks in advance!
-MjrKnockout
I don't have a picture handy but here is the switch matrix. I believe you are talking about sw.30. DOTS means diode on terminal strip, so the diode is mounted off the switch. Green/Yellow and White/Blue are the wire colors.
lotr switch matrix (resized).JPGQuoted from billsfanmd:Thx
One thing I need to fix is balrog. Does anyone sell new wire harnesses. Want to make it close to bulletproof again
I found this at Marco's.
Quoted from HughesDForce:I recently acquired the "Ramp Trap Fix" plastics, and am looking to install it, but the holes don't match up with my machine in an obvious way. Has anyone installed this, and could you point me in the right direction?
Thank you!
Description:
Two commonly broken plastics found in front of the Ring at the back of your playfield. Together they create a ball trap which diverts the ball into the pop bumpers.
Link:
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/502-5021-81
The larger piece is turned sideways and the smaller piece mounts on top of that, with the pointy end facing down. Here is a pic.
2008_0217lotr0009_2278951745_o (resized).jpgQuoted from TicTacSeth:I went ahead and made the jump yesterday actually. I dropped in some new clear star posts with warm white post lights under them. Looks great, and looking at the art work, the circle around matches the diameter of the post lights perfectly. So I like what I see, though have some other things I’m doing now as well so haven’t played it that way yet. I have a post on the right side that looks like it’s taken a beating, next to the spot ring target, thinking about whether I should put one over there as well.
Hey, question, I need to buy decals for the targets and spinners, but I see there’s a mirror decal of the eye. Where does that go in the game???
I believe the eye sticker you are talking about goes behind here...
2008_0217lotr0036_2278961607_o (resized).jpgThere is a flasher behind that panel that illuminates the eye. You don't really see it unless you're looking for it.
Quoted from Digduglus:Hey folks, i picked up a heavily routed LOTR a while ago and have finally started going through it.
Both playfield wood rails need replaced due to damage. Does anyone have decent photos of the posts and holes on the left rail? Trying to figure where these spiky posts go on the new left rail im building.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
20210116_205010 (resized).jpg20210116_205025 (resized).jpgThat is a normally closed switch. You have to get in the back of the Balrog and carefully bend the switch arm so the switch opens up sooner. Make very small adjustments and test.
Quoted from attyrhodes:Anyone have some thoughts on this?
Are you saying everything was working perfectly before installing the pinstadiums? If so, I would disconnect them entirely and see what you get. You cannot specifically test the start switch or flipper switches in the switch test since they are used in the menus. You could test the start switch with a meter. Or just see if you get a response when using the start button within another test, like solenoid test.
Quoted from Ashram56:Good morning,
I've been having all of sudden failing left flipper on my LOTR, so I took a look and investigated further. Turns out the fuse was blown, but... I changed it and since then it has blown twice.
Before I blow any more fuse, I did further testing
- I checked the flyback diode, it was OK
- I used my current probe to check on amp during test, as it turns out:
- I have a current peak slightly above 4A on the left flipper
- I do not have this current peak on the right flipper
Kind of explain why my fuse kept blowing.
Now that does not explain why I have a higher current peak, is this typical of a transistor starting to go bad ?
On the questions now:
- I have the high power coils, would that explain the higher current peak ? If so, why only on the left flipper ?
- I looked at the schematics, could not find the reference to the flipper transistors, could someone give me a pointer ?
- Should I simply replace my 3A fuse with a 4A ? I assume it's not recommended...
Thanks
Left flipper is Q15, right flipper is Q16. The original transistors are STP20N10L. Most people replace with a better transistor IRL540. Great Plains has them for a good price.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=IRL540N
Quoted from Ashram56:Sigh, looks like I have more than one gremlin...
I realized that not only my slingshots were triggering when it should not be, but so was my auto-launch.
And what's even more funny: I also noticed that hitting the Balrog does trigger the auto launch coil...
I recall a few months ago that I had experienced various glitches, one of them being a Balrog hit triggering Tilt. Another one being the whole system doing a reset during play. It had not appeared for a few months.
I'll perform a full ground connection check, although what puzzles me the most is that the design of the control system should not trigger under any circumstance unless the command transistor is active, which means that there is a command being sent.
I would welcome guidance here, scratching my head.
lotr switch matrix (resized).JPGQuoted from PoogiePrincess:Any luck fixing this problem?
My middle lock switch is registering as one of the paths of the dead switches only during game play, not during switch testing. Was working like a dream yesterday, almost destroyed the ring last night. Today after light waxing (nothing unscrewed) I'm getting this weird mixup.
(I'm certainly amateur at wiring so any details helps!)
Is it "mini playfield upper right"? That's in the same row as "sword lock mid".
Quoted from TheShaft:I’m having left flipper issues. The fuse will blow on first attempt to use it. I’ve traced the wire and can’t find any shorts. I’ve tested the transistor by grounding it with a wire and that acts the same as using the flipper button, blows the fuse. (I feel like a bad transistor wouldn’t blow a fuse, but I’m new at this.) The diode on the flipper coil looks normal. What should my readings be on the flipper coil? I’m getting 3.7 ohms on the right flipper coil, 1.6 on the left flipper coil, and I have a spare coil that reads 4.3. Is this my problem? These measurements are jibberish to me. Any info would be helpful, thanks.
I looked up the spec on that coil, should be around 3.4 ohms. 1.6 is very low. The coil has probably overheated at some point and melted some of the internal insulation. Too low ohms will cause a fuse to blow for sure. There's is just a 3amp fuse on the flipper circuits.
Quoted from attyrhodes:Is there a post regarding Destroy the Ring issues? Spinner is working great, but the second and final ring shot to end DTR is not working. I just ripped the spinner 9 or 10 times in different games and it just kept going.
There is a separate switch for that. It's mounted in the chute behind the ring. It's probably OK, just needs an adjustment.
Quoted from TicTacSeth:Shoot - I was hoping this would help me figure out what was wrong with mine! Haha. On mine, it’s my right flipper that is blowing the fuse. It takes a few flips while playing, but eventually the coil locks on and the flipper stays up until the thing blows. I’m reading 3.3 ohms on both the left and the right. How do I read the transistor to see if it’s good? And on the coil, do I need to check the diode separately?
To check the diode, yes, it needs to be removed from the circuit to test. You can clip one end of it. When in doubt, just replace it. Buy in bulk and they're like 10 cents/each.
Quoted from marioparty34:Does anyone have a lead on replacing the ring optos? I can't find them anywhere. Mine occasionally starts a ring mode without a ball hitting it. They all register just fine in switch test mode with a ball. No anomalies or accidentally triggers either in test mod. Any help would be appreciated.
Not sure if they will fix your problem, but Marco has them.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=500-6747
Original part # is 180-5160-00. According to Marcos, this subs out to 500-6689-01. Marco is out of stock but Pinballlife seems to have them.
https://www.pinballlife.com/stern-flipper-leaf-switch-single-contact.html
Also found this info on Marcos...
Switch - flip cab "Paliney"
#500-6889-01
Single flipper button cabinet switch assembly with the new low-arcing "Paliney" alloy contacts.
Replaces:
500-6889-01
180-5160-00
500-6889-00
If replacing 180-5160 series switch, mounting holes will need to be raised 3/4".
SOPRANOS Service Bulletin 156
Weight: 0.41 oz
Quoted from Morgoth00:Is there any source for the yellow plastic flasher cap? Or does someone have a good used one?
[quoted image]
Color may not be an exact match. If you are missing one I would buy a pair.
https://www.pinballlife.com/plastic-light-domes-twist-on.html
Quoted from palmab03:Question: on the left orbit shot, it seems my machine diverts to the orthanc and path of the dead almost the entire game, how often or when SHOULD that shot divert to it, and I imagine mine is doing it incorrectly because it basically blocks all tower shots and the shot to start fellowship/collect gift of elves, etc. Is this a common issue/fix on this game?
It should divert to the POTD from an inlane, at the start of MB, or during War of the Ents mode.
You can check if the mech moves smoothly and also check it's operation in coil test.
Quoted from attyrhodes:Can't you check in the audits how much money has been put into the machine?
All audits can be reset.
Quoted from attyrhodes:My orbit registers every time
Same here.
Quoted from Shenanigander:This is regarding the service bulletin I was referencing. Looks like going up to 5 amp is recommended.
I am finding that Stern recommended F20 be raised from a 3amp to a 4amp. Can anyone show any documentation where Stern recommends a 5amp fuse for F20?
First pic is from LOTR manual. Second pic is from Monopoly.
Quoted from Morgoth00:I am having trouble with the F7 Fuse. It blows immediately when I turn the pin on. I disconnected the j17 square plug and then the fuse is fine when I turn it on. All I had done last is replace one of the pop bumper coils that had burnt out (same Stern part number). Everything looks fine regarding those three wires, not sure if that is a coincidence. I disconnected the new coil just in case and the F7 Fuse still blows. I am still trying to decode the diagram. Looks like Bridge2 goes to everything under the sun. I had been having trouble with #19 Vuk, so before I tear out the board again, anything else to chase after?
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Sounds like a shorted diode in BR2. Best thing to do is check the bridge rectifier with a meter. If you don't know how, you can find videos on youtube that explain how.
When you remove J17 you are removing AC voltage input to the bridge, so naturally the fuse doesn't blow because there is no current. In a normally working bridge circuit, you have AC voltage on two diagonally opposite pins and DC voltage on the other two pins.
Another thing you could try would be to reconnect J17 and disconnect J6 and J7. This will disconnect the loads(in this case coils and flashers). If the fuse no longer blows this could indicate a short in one of those circuits. But I don't think that is your problem.
Since you were working in the pop bumper area. I would ck the flashers in that area. Look for bent tab connections, pinched wiring, try new bulbs, etc.
I had the game for years and never noticed until someone pointed it out on a stream. Almost every call out involves a number. It is seriously overkill. LOL
Double jackpot FIVE.
THREE rings of men.
500 MORE.
etc, etc.
Quoted from jedi42:Not arguing at all, and this likely is the issue, but aren't those coiled wires insulated? More of a curiousity question.
Yes, they have a varnish that covers the wire. But the tip where it broke off won't be insulated. If you ever need to solder this type of wire, and this could certainly be done on this coil to repair it, take a pocket knife or exacto blade and scrape the insulation off to get to the bare wire. A little difficult since the wire is so fine, but it can be done and then you can solder to it.
Mine rarely if ever flies off this ramp with no modifications. Three things come to mind.
1. Check for factory flipper coils and not the pinballlife high power coils.
2. Try increasing the pitch. Put front levelers all the way in, back levelers about 1/2 way out.
3. If your game is clean and waxed, let it get a little bit dirty.
Quoted from Morgoth00:I was doing some tests and noticed that when trying to obtain the fellowship members, I had to roll down the legolas ramp 3 times before his light would turn solid and then hit the boromir pops 3 different times as well before his turned solid. On your machine is it always 3 times for all members? Or one hit each for all?
Boromir is a certain number of pops, like 20. Legolas I'm not sure. I think on default settings it should be 1 ramp for first time around and 2 ramps for second time around.
Quoted from jlatko:Things were going a little too smoothly. Finally beat Fellowship MB ("You shall not pass!"), and now my Balrog won't cooperate. Hopefully something similar has happened to someone here and you can put me on the right track with a Balrog 101 class?
When I boot, he moves correctly to the right and parks there without issue. When I start a game, he moves to his correct left position, then can't seem to move right again to his hidden position. He goes about 3/4 of the way, then bounces back left. This repeats over and over. The ball never enters the shooter lane because it must be waiting for the Balrog. I can move him by hand with the game off without issue. Any ideas, or need any more info? Thanks so much.
Check this part. Listed as POTC but the same part is used on the Balrog . Make sure the screws aren't loose. The clutch is designed to provide drive, but also to allow slip if necessary so the motor doesn't get torn up.
https://www.pinballlife.com/potc-coupling-clutch-assembly.html?Category_Code=
Quoted from Junglist:Ok so I confirmed the Diode on my right flipper was not working. Once removed the coil gives a proper resistance of 3.2. Do I just need to replace the Diode now? Or is my transistor shot as well or did the fuse possibly save it?
When attaching the diode can I just solder it to the wire? (there's no real room to thread the holes in the lugs where i snipped the original diode from)
thanks
Diodes do go bad. To confirm, use diode test on the meter and check the diode in both directions. You should see a reading of around .5 to .7 volts in one direction and an open circuit in the other direction.
I highly doubt it is just the diode though. Usually when a diode fails, it takes out the transistor and the fuse. BUT, the most common failure of a transistor is shorted, meaning the flipper will flip up and stay there as soon as power is applied. Transistors can fail open, but it's not as common. Look on youtube for a video on how the check a transistor. Similar to checking a diode but a little more complex. If it's bad, you want IRL540. It's a more robust transistor than the ones that come on the whitestar board set.
You cannot beat the price and low shipping from this guy.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=IRL540N
Quoted from Gogdog:Actually....do you happen to know if I did want to switch the Diode.....what diodes I would need? I do have some 1N4004 from pinball life ->
https://www.pinballlife.com/diode-1n4004.html
But I'm not sure if those are the appropriate ones.
Yes, that is the correct diode.
Quoted from ChipScott:As a new member, I have another question as it relates to the right ramp.
Looks like it's designed to utilize the side wall of the pf before going down that sword part. Should there be a protector there, or it that the way it is. Sure I've played the game on location, but in the loud environment of bars, never really heard the ball hit the side wall (which I can hear at the house). Doesn't bother me, just curious.
If that's the way it is, has anyone ever made any protectors for this area? Think it would really be needed?
Thx!
The KaThunk is part of the charm. I've never seen any need for a protector.
Quoted from ChipScott:Not everytime, but on occasion I've noticed that even though ball one lock on the sword triggers the "Helms Deep" comment, signifying that the switch registers, sometimes (not everytime), there is failure for a ball to then be released from the trough (which should occur as that first locked ball sits there behind the uppost at the swords edge). Is that an intermittent issue for anyone else? Anything I can do to increase the reliability that a ball is them triggered to release from the trough once that ball is locked there at the sword behind that uppost?...otherwise I have to wait for ball search and ultimately the locked ball just releases as the game goes on as usual.
Again, new owner and member, and fortunately, not too many questions, for now but thanks everyone for your responses.
Could be magnetized balls. Get new carbon core balls.
https://www.pinballlife.com/1-116-pinball-standard-size.html
Quoted from Ed4pin:So I guess my question now is: How much does replacement of the incandescent bulbs with LED bulbs decrease the soot?
From my experience, none.
Quoted from Veemonroe:Quick question, folks.
I’m considering a LoTR as my second pinball machine. My first machine is a Williams Fish Tales.
I’ve watched the Pinball Expert’s somewhat scary videos about the non-user serviceability of later-model Sterns.
That guy is an F'ing joke with an agenda. LOTR is one of the easiest machines to service and in a home environment will have very few issues once dialed in. Just get it and don't look back!
In general I like JJP games. I don't like Hobbit. My vote is no, don't do it. If you want Hobbit later you can find it. LOTR is getting harder to find since most owners don't want to part with it.
Best thing to look for in Gollum is the green insert in front of the Gollum scoop. It will alternate between strobing and lit solid. I tend to get it mixed up, but I believe solid is when scores are doubled.
On my LOTR the inlane posts have rubber removed and the outlane posts are removed. It's the only way to fly!
Very good explanation aimed at the newbie. Only a couple small things I would add. While the coil is off, clean off the plunger with a rag dampened with alcohol. Also, when tightening the coil stop bolts, squeeze the coil stop towards the coil to take out any slack, and tighten those bolts very tightly.
Quoted from red-line:Hey y'all, I'm having a balrog issue. I haven't looked into it yet, but figured I'd throw it out there to see if others have experience it. Occasionally the balrog doesn't want to go back to it's resting spot. It seems to be binding - I can hear the motor function, but it kinda stutters and doesn't move. Eventually it slides back into place. My immediate thought was that it was binding on the playfield, I've seen the horror show marks across the playfield where it drags across and scrapes up the PF. I don't see any damage and it doesn't look like it's dragging there.
Any thoughts?
Check the clutch on the shaft. Tighten the screws if loose. The link I'm including says for POTC. It's the same on LOTR.
https://www.pinballlife.com/potc-coupling-clutch-assembly.html?Category_Code=
Quoted from briyau15:Anyone know what the flipper adj setting does? Seems to have 3 settings (Adj 1, Adj 2, Adj 3).
I’m finding the flipper to be a bit weak for my taste to get up the center ramp and into the ring. Does that mean I should consider a coil replacement (medium strength?) or can I change those settings to make it stronger?
I wouldn't change those settings. They mostly affect flipper timing if the EOS breaks or gets out of adjustment. If you want stronger flippers, rebuild and/or get the medium coils.
Quoted from blizz81:Was playing tonight and had an EB lit (think from the tower but not sure). Drained and it was no longer lit. After having this game almost 10 years you’d think I’d know, but I can’t remember if that’s the case for all EBs?
Feature adjustments:
#10 Elf Gift EB Memory, Yes or No, Default is Yes
#13 Ring Frenzy EB Memory, Yes or No, Default is No
#17 Mystery EB Memory, Yes or No, Default is No
That doesn't compute. LOTR as with all modern Sterns will continue to work correctly even without an EOS switch. Exactly 40ms after the button is pressed the board should switch to low power regardless of the EOS position.
If what you are feeling is correct, you could confirm that with an analog meter across the coil. During the hold cycle the power should read lower than 50 volts. You could also use an oscilloscope. I don't know if a normal digital meter will detect the difference.
If it is in fact reversed, the problem would have to be on the I/0 board.
Put all the balls on a table and roll them around and see if they are attracted to each other. Also, check the shooter lane switch with a ball, not your finger. Lastly, your roller arms on the trough switches may need to be adjusted(bent) slightly. This adjustment on the trough switches is a common issue. It's why newer designs use optos instead of switches.
Quoted from adrock:Thanks. Now just need to know where that cable bundle connects on the other end if someone can help me out pls.
That connector goes to CN2 on the display power supply board. It's in the top left corner of the backbox. This is according to the manual. I haven't physically looked on my game.
Definitely put it into switch test and troubleshoot from there. You have a either got a switch triggering more than one switch, a switch not registering, or possibly that last switch is registering closed when it's open?
Did you know there are rules in the code for when the ball falls into the Shire? You get more souls when that happens.
Quoted from Neal_W:There is also the ramp method to protect the plastic.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lotr-resurrection-of-the-improved-arwen-plastic-protector/
That looks very cool but looks like he isn't around any more. I just have the flat protector over the top of the Arwen plastic.
Quoted from CashMoney:Any ideas to make this game play harder/shorter? Looking to include this in a tournament so I can’t have 1 hour long games.
Here’s what I’ve got so far:
- lighting flippers
- removed outlane posts completely
- removed inlane rubbers
- pitch at 7 degrees
- installed thicker post rubbers on the sword ramp so it’s extremely hard to back hand it all day to get to MB.
- obviously a good naphtha/wax cleaning combo to get it playing fast.
- lowered the ball saves for MB, removed them completely at the start of a ball
- tight tilt
Any other ideas or things I’m missing?
I ran a tourney and included my LOTR. Same set up as yours minus the fat posts and lightning flippers. It was fine. Still one of the longer playing games but nothing that really held up the tournament.
The only other thing I could suggest: The tilt mech is notoriously sketchy on Whitestar games. You might consider changing it to one tilt warning. At two tilt warnings, no matter how tight , your players most likely could make a huge move and only get one or two warnings.
IRL540 is the most common replacement. I've used them many times before. If it didn't work, it's either bad or you have other problems.
Quoted from killerrobots:I am hoping some smart person can help me with a board issue I am having with my flippers, here is the situation:
- Very recently fully restored my LotR but the flippers where the same (however the playfield was stripped etc so maybe something moved around)
- Got everything back together and play tested 3-4 games with no problems
- Then the left flipper suddenly died
- 3A fuse was blown next to flipper and would blow again if reinstalled
- Removed the driver board and found that the IC Q15 was reading weird (all legs grounded)
- Couldn't find a direct replacement so I did my best and ordered one from Digikey
- Reinstalled it and had the same issue (blown fuse)
- Reinvestigated board and found that the Capacitor C248 was shorted to ground
- Ordered a new capacitor and replaced it
- Same thing happened
- Thought maybe I had ordered the wrong IC so I asked here and got new replacement ICs (IRF540)
- Replaced both IC (right and left) and both capacitors
- Carefully measured both ICs and capacitors and there was no short
- Put it back in the game and both flippers blew their fuse
- When I checked the capacitors both had shorted to ground
So at this point I am sure that when I try to activate the flippers it somehow shorts the capacitor? Maybe I ordered the wrong capacitors?
I am kind of at a lose of what to check next, I have attached the part information if it helps.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I had a similar problem on a Monopoly which is also a Whitestar board set. It would activate flipper at power on, even though the transistor had been replaced. If I didn't turn it off immediately it would blow the fuse and transistor. Turns out the fix was to replace U2, which is an HCT273 chip. I would also check the 22K resistors in that circuit. And yes, your 10,000pf caps are the same as the .01 uf caps.
I would carefully test everything again. Replace both transistors and U2. If that doesn't do it, I would send the board out for repair.
flipper circuit (resized).JPGQuoted from killerrobots:Thanks I will try that. I have checked both resistors and they seem fine.
Do you know the best place to source that chip?
Marco has them for $2. Great Plains Electronics has them for .45 but they are closed for now, maybe forever.
Although I have not had this issue, many have indicated having this insert become loose or raised. It's fixable.
Quoted from Neal_W:Marco has the Balrog in stock for $110 so try fixing yours first.
And 99.95 at PBL. Definitely find a way to repair that!
Quoted from wombat:Need some help please. I'm currently cleaning up my LOTR and removed Balrog. The part the arrow is pointing to is actually broken. I can't find a part number. It's the part that the screw screws into, holding the mounting bracket to Balrog.
[quoted image]
Something like this might work. Epoxy it in place? I'm assuming your old piece has more wrong with it than it just came loose?
https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Find-Fastener-014973209582-Coupling/dp/B00L1L5T6W/ref=sr_1_1
https://www.mcmaster.com/couplings/thread-size~6-32/low-strength-steel-coupling-nuts-9/
I'm almost positive that Whitestar didn't have any coil adjustments. SAM system introduced a few. We didn't get lots of coil strength adjustments until Spike came along.
There is standard adjustment 33 but that affects ALL coils, not individual ones. Soft, normal, hard. Soft is - 12.5%, hard is + 12.5%. This is mainly there to compensate for line voltage conditions.
Quoted from Paseb:do we need polarized pinballs for LOTR?
or regular ninja pinball is ok?
Carbon core pinballs. Ninja are chrome and will get magnetized easily.
Quoted from Paseb:I need some help
When i press to start a game, the ball can launch automatically after +-10 sec without me lunching it with the ball plunger.
Any idea?
The switch in the shooter lane is not working or needs adjustment.
Yeah, if you have two yellow wires there, then the 2nd one probably goes to the Barad Dur coil. Easy to measure with a meter. Is there voltage at the Barad Dur coil? Probably not.
The bigger question is why somebody would do this. Obviously they were having some type of problem with the bottom pop.
Ck the diode on that coil. The yellow goes to the banded side of the diode. The blue signal wire goes to the other lug.
Quoted from Tommy_Pins:Alright, so I tested the ring trough switch and seems to be working fine. I tried to troubleshoot destroy the ring with the glass off and it took like 4-5 ring hits after the first one where it says golem has the ring. My understanding is that once you hit the four shots, it's two ring shots to destroy the ring. My destroy the ring mode is set to one ball. Thoughts?
Testing with a ball or finger?
Quoted from Junglist:My kid has figured out a hack or a glitch and i'm curious if others have it. He basically will start a game, get to ball two then while the ball is in play hold the start button. The game will restart into a new game and he immediately gets rewarded with 12million for whatever fellowship he gets, plus other points. Effectively he can jump to 45 million on ball one on the freshly started game in seconds. I'd like to disable this lol as it messes with our scoring obviously
Anyone seen this or can reproduce?
Just set game restart to NO
Quoted from TheNecromancer:Ok, so I'm really torn and I kind of understand that being the LOTR club it may be somewhat biased opinions but I have the chance to trade my 7 month old (450 plays) 1 owner Jurassic Park Premium for a well optioned LOTR.
My heart really wants the LOTR as it's my favorite books and movies since high school. I'm a huge fan. Jurassic Park is also a favorite of mine but not at the level LOTR is. I've never played the LOTR pin, but I've read enough to know that I doubt I'll be disappointed. The hang up comes to the value. With tax and shipping and a couple mods I'm in JP for $10,200. The LOTR game has a lot of cool add-ons such as the path of the dead, palantir, eye of Sauron, power blades, speaker grills and a color DMD. There may be other small things but I don't know the game well enough. The cabinet does have some scuffs on the lower left side, not bad but there. I also realize the game is 19 years old too. It's said to 100% working order.
The reason I purchased JP in the first place is while originally looking for a LOTR a dealer talked me out of it as I was knew to pinball and kind of scared me away from an older game as a first machine. I've since added a POTC and while still a noob I'm already a lot less intimidated by an older machine. So when this somewhat local LOTR surfaced recently as a trade I've really been thinking about it. In 2016 I looked at buying a LOTR and they were trading for around $4000 - $5000 at the time which seemed pretty high and I backed down thinking if I wait a few years they would be cheaper. Well, that didn't really work out for me. I can't help but wonder if I wait another couple years will I be looking at these machines for $12k or $13k? More? I feel that if I take the trade I may be losing around $1000 on my end but I guess you don't really ever recoup tax and shipping. Maybe it's worth it to get the Holy Grail pin for me? Should I just be patient and save up for another year or so and find one then? I will like try to find another JP in the end as those were the three goal pins but who knows, maybe I find something I like more than JP too. I find JP as a noob to be a hard game.
what are you're thoughts? would you trade even if it favored the seller?
Look at the value of the LOTR and not so much what you have in the JP. You're right, you shouldn't factor tax and shipping into the value of a game. Although the two games are kinda close in value, you might ask for a small amount of cash in trade, like 500-750. If he won't budge, you might just have to do it anyway. It's a great game and getting harder and harder to find.
Quoted from Iamthelaw:Nvram has been installed for years, sounds like I was able to move around in the service menu. Took cpu off and inspected, no damage, took all fuses out, verified all are working. All the leds on boards I see appear to stay constantly lit
Have you tried completely disconnecting the color dmd and see if the game boots? Do you still have the original dmd? You could install that and see if anything changes. You would need to follow the color dmd instructions to get the wiring correct.(high voltage vs. 5 vdc).
When you originally took off your backglass and speaker panel, what did you do? What was the reason for taking those off?
One more thing, I've seen whitestars not boot due to a bad backbox lamp, starter, or transformer.
Not odd at all, especially if it was on location powered on for 12 hours a day and no maintenance ever done to it.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Okay... I've played around with my settings and am not sure if I have a switch broken or there is an option somewhere to start a game with the mode started on the first ball. You hit start and the first mode immediately starts.
Still loving this game. 2nd longest in my collection. My homemade flipper fans make a huge difference in playability and I can tell when they are having issues.
Mine does this sometimes. The Balrog hit switch is a normally closed switch, meaning when you hit the Balrog the Balrog must move enough to open the switch. Mine was very insensitive, meaning you bash the Balrog and it doesn't register. I adjusted the switch to be more sensitive and that is when my issue of modes starting when beginning a game began. Since mine only does it occasionally I have chosen to live with it since my Balrog now registers every time it's hit.
Quoted from latenite04:If anyone needs replacement switches for the flat y fork vuk's, the now discontinued Cherry E63, someone on ebay has lots of 5 for $9. You just need to swap the y actuator onto the new switch.
ebay.com link: itm
ebay.com link: itm
I always assumed those type of switch arms were not swappable. Is there a way to easily do it?
Quoted from latenite04:There's a small notch you can use a flat screwdriver to twist in and the arm falls off. The screws through the body press it all into place when you install it.
[quoted image]
Old flat actuator on the left, newer replacement using a cherry dB series switch on the right. The dB has the actuator tabs you can pry off to switch them.
[quoted image]
Thanks man. I ordered 10. I ordered several of the fork switches several years when they started shooting up in price. Funny thing is I haven't had one fail since!
Quoted from Sorokyl:I finished painting the fellowship and adding/reading.
I started with all new AOME figures except Aragorn and the Orks. Gollum I 3d printed from a free model I found. Really proud of his paint job. The other models I just added some shading and highlighting to try to bring them to live. A lot of them I created custom bases for and replaced original plastics. Also recently added the volcano, tower, and bag end from pinworlds.
Oh Gandalfs staff I made myself and am somewhat proud of. I don't know if I really did the circuit right, so maybe the led will burn out before long, we'll see!
Still to do is spruce up my path of the dead, play with my ocdled/lighting, and a couple of other ideas I have.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Looks great! Maybe only thing better than your painting skill is your photography skill!
The Balrog switch is a normally closed switch and is difficult to adjust the sensitivity just right. Too hard and hits to the Balrog don't register. Too easy, then often at game start when the Balrog moves, a mode will immediately start.
Same issue can be caused by the wiring getting cracked or broken in the harness that goes to the Balrog. All that motion can and will cause the wires to break.
Quoted from Sorokyl:I broke a wire on the gate on my right wireform, right past the gimli vuk. I believe I soldered it back to the correct location however would like confirmation. Also, there was only a single thread of wire left so it's a weak connection. That may be my problem:
Previously on my game, when lock was lit. A shot to the vuk would lock the ball. Now, I have to hit the stand up at the back of the ramp for it to lock. Otherwise it just lets the ball down. The old behavior is correct right? If the ball gets up there via vuk, it locks?
In the switch test it's an interesting behavior. I pulled glass and rolled ball 20 times..always triggers, but it is also triggering a switch in the trough?
The sequence on trigger is always (in quick succession):
"4 ball trough #1 (left)"
"Rail ramp exit"
"4 ball trough #1 left)"
What could be the issue here? I guess I should probably put the playfield up and fix this properly, stripping some fresh wire and making a better connection. But I want to verify where it goes and what behavior I should expect from the ball lock
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Signal wire should always go to the non-banded side of the diode. Hard to tell from the pic but it looks like it may be on the banded side?
Also, no, the ball should not lock on the sword from the Gimli VUK. Only from the ramp shot.
The gate switch pretty much only does one important thing. It lets the game know that a ball coming into the sword lock came from the Gimli VUK, therefore not a lock.
Mine stopped working a while back and I got exactly what you described. I started getting locks from the upkicker. On mine I had to replace the switch.
Quoted from CLEllison:Ooof. This is not gonna be fun. Pretty sure this machine had never had maintenance done before so figured I'd make it new and snappy again. The slingshot and flippers no big deal, but the mods I think are going to be a headache.
Anyone have any experience/words of wisdom about the mods? Been sitting on them for about 2 years now lol.
[quoted image]
Do Not put those Silver Jet pinballs in LOTR. They'll be magnetized in no time.
The button leaf switches can definitely wear and become inconsistent. I replaced mine many years ago and the flippers have been great.
By energizing the flippers without diodes, the collapsing magnetic field will send current back to the board, blowing the transistors. Get some IRL 540's and diodes and you should be good to go. If you can do some basic board work.
It should be on 3 ball. 5 ball is the accepted norm for EMs. But you can do whatever you want! It's your game.
Mine is set for 3 ball, outlane posts removed, inlane posts have rubber removed. I had EB's turned off but my wife complained too much, LOL.
If you go to menu/ installs and install "freeplay competition" you can get 2 tilt warnings. It's the only way I think to get 2.
Quoted from glpinball:Hello, does anyone have a link to the switch on the left of the ring ramp? The one for the the spinner at the bottom of the ramp? I snapped the arm off cleaning the playfield.
Part # is 180-5190-28
Yes, that switch should work just fine. Yes, you will need a diode. You can even reuse that diode if you are careful with the soldering iron. Just make sure to wire it up exactly like the old one. Pay attention to the banded side of the diode. The direction must be the same as the old one.
Quoted from matt68061:Ring magnet question. I realize this has come up multiple times in this thread and its somewhat common. I have read thru everything I could find searching the issue. Cant seem to find a solution that solves my issue.
During Destroy The Ring, after hitting the 4 shots and shooting the ring, I can not get the second ball to knock the suspended ball through the ring. The magnet grabs both balls every. single. time. Even a nuts on, forceful shot will not dislodge the ball.
In switch test, all three switches (spinner, ring and trough) test fine. The magnet seems to operate normally during gameplay.
I have the medium strength coils that dont seem to fade much at all even during long sessions. They seem plenty strong to me…
Any ideas for me? Any magnet adjustment? I’ve had this happen at least a dozen time during gameplay and of course have pulled the glass and tested multiple times.
Right now the game is set to 1 ball DTR…but I would sure like to figure this out and set it back to 2 ball.
Any advice is appreciated.
Have you tried doing a Factory Reset?
Quoted from matt68061:Well… I should have just left well enough alone. Kept playing around with my super strong magnet and now it seems I have really F’d it up. Sigh.
So now the magnet is not working at all. Replaced the fuse, replaced the transistor. All switches work as they should (the 3 involved; spinner, ring opto, trough tested with ball and activating with finger)
So my questions are pretty straightforward…and likely pretty dumb.
1. If a transistor is ‘bad’ will the fuse always blow? Fuse is fine after transistor was changed… but I did a flipper repair several months back and a few of the transistors in that batch were out of spec…errr..bad.
2. How do I properly test the magnet coil itself? Did the ring magnet coil test in the diagnostics and nothing registered. (All other coils were fine.
Thanks again!
On the bright side…Balrog switch now registers with every hit! Sure makes Fellowship multiball a better time. Appreciate those who offered advice on that. Was an easy swap.
If a transistor is shorted it will blow a fuse usually as soon the game is powered on. I have also seen fuses blow immediately due to a shorted bridge rectifier also. Looks like the transistor for the ring magnet is Q6. Best way to test a magnet is the put your meter on ohms and check the resistance of the magnet coil. I don't know the specs of that coil but you are looking for some low ohm reading, like maybe 30-150 ohms. You would not want to see infinity or a zero reading(short). I'm attaching a snip from the LOTR manual. Looks like there is also a diode somewhere inside the connector? That sounds odd but that is what the manual is showing. That diode could be shorted as well.
lotr magnet (resized).JPGAlso throwing this out there. I have seen a locked on flipper due to not only a shorted transistor but also a shorted chip. In the case of the ring magnet that would be U1, which is a HCT273. Not the most likely issue but it is technically possible.
Yeah, when set to 2 ball DTR, if you ever get two balls stuck in the ring you must immediately reach down and turn the game off or bad things will happen. I didn't read your earlier post well enough. I thought your magnet was activating on power up and blowing the fuse. The U1 chip therefore should not be an issue.
3.5 ohms is close enough. I believe you have confirmed that the magnet coil is good.
If the transistor is shorted, yes. If the transistor is open, no. But if the transistor is shorted, I would expect the magnet to activate as soon as the power is turned on, then the fuse would blow. This would all happen very quickly. Flipper transistors do this fairly often.
So the transistor checks good. I believe you said you replaced the transistor. Have you double checked your work? Set meter to continuity check and buzz out each trace going to the three legs of the transistor. In other words, check each leg of the transistor to another point on the board and make sure your solder job is correct.
And when you say the magnet does nothing in test. Sometimes you can hear a faint hum but the room needs to be very quiet to hear it. Are you testing with the interlock switch pulled out on the coin door? Can you toss a ball into the ring during the test to see if it grabs?
Quoted from matt68061:Hello again. I just wanted to give a quick “thanks” to everyone that replied to my posts and to the several Pinsiders who PM’d me. Very helpful info and cleared up several technical questions.
Unfortunately I still have a non working magnet. Pretty much the same scenario as a few days ago. Transistor is good, fuse good, all switches register.
Basically the game plays 100% fine but the magnet wont function.
Other than measuring the ohms…I was wondering if there was another way to check if the magnet was functioning… on its own, outside of gameplay? Also wondering about checking that power is getting there.
Running out of ideas here.
Hook up a 9 volt battery to the coil outside the game. That should provide enough current to see if there is any attraction to a ball.
Positive goes to the non-banded side of the diode. Worst you could do would be to blow the diode. The diode is only there to protect the circuit board from the current induced by the collapsing magnetic field. Just connect the battery momentarily. I would think if you left it connected for very long that battery could get really hot.
OK, then I would say your coil is good. Re-install and check that same pin. Have your meter on DC volts. Put your positive meter lead on the non-banded side and your negative lead on any ground braid. You should read around 50 volts DC. With a game started you should see 50 vdc there all the time. The game then grounds the other side through the transistor to activate the coil. You can compare the reading to other known working coils like a VUK or pop bumper.
Remember the coin door needs to be closed or the interlock switch pulled out.
Quoted from matt68061:So… I am reading a consistent 73.6 volts dc on the magnet connection as well as the shire and all VUKs…as well as the flippers.
Seems high.
No, this is fine. Not too high. This tells us that the coil has the proper voltage. What is not happening is the transistor circuit is not grounding the coil to turn it on. This could be several things, not just a bad transistor.
Did you say you checked continuity from the low side of the coil all the way back to the board? That would be J8 pin 7. With the game turned off, set your meter to ohms. Measure from the banded side of the diode to J8 pin 7. You should get a beep or read zero ohms.
lotr coils (resized).JPGWell, this is probably beyond my ability to troubleshoot without actually being there. I did find this in the manual for testing the transistors. All of those J8 transistors are driven off of the same 50vdc supply, but from different pins on J10. With the magnet connector unplugged I would not think you should read continuity to any other pin than pin 7. Maybe try it again with J10 unplugged. It may be time to send your board off for repair. Worst case, they can't find anything wrong with it and charge you a diagnostic fee. Best case, they find the problem and fix it.
lotr circuit (resized).JPGYou're just wanting to test continuity from the pin in the connector back to J8-pin 7. So no, you don't want the connector at the magnet coil plugged in during this test.
Quoted from matt68061:So…who is the go to Whitestar pcb repair person these days?
Honestly not sure. I would message barakandl . If he can't do it for you, he can probably tell you who can. Way back in the day there was Coin Op Cauldren but I'm not sure if they are still around.
Quoted from Valinor:I got impatient and I ordered the halographic pros in gold for $150. I figured I'd rebuild the flippers with the medium strength coils from Marco Pinball. I'll let you know how it goes. I've only had this machine for a couple of days and the flippers have the original coils and are lack luster at best. As near as I can figure the coils are original to the machine.
Too late now, but you would probably have great working flippers just rebuilding them and using the existing coils. Rebuild kit at PBL for $45.
Quoted from Neal_W:I have noticed that several of my plastic posts have stated to deteriorate and start breaking. I guess it is one of those things that wears out after 20yrs.
I have also noticed that the balls quickly appear dull and greasy after playing and pick up some dirt, but the playfield and everything is clean. I can clean the balls off with simple green and they look like new again, but the cycle repeats.
Someone in another thread was seeing a similar issue with their LotR and suspects it may be from the deteriorating black posts. Any other thoughts? Anyone else seeing the same thing?
Also if you haven't, I would remove the ball trough and clean thoroughly.
I'm scared to look at my game now. I've never noticed what you guys are talking about. Afraid I'll see something I can't unsee....LOL
Wow! $300 for a set. Sign of the times.
About 10 years ago a buddy of mine who also owned LOTR and I came up with a plan. We each had a broken plastic(different ones). What we did was buy a set, at the time about $150 and split the cost. We each got the plastic we needed. Then we spread all the other plastics out on his pool table and did a school yard pick, one by one, until all the plastics were divided up. Now over the years, I've sold a plastic here and there for 15 or 20 bucks and made most if not all my money back. I still have some plastics, too!
When you put on the tapered post sleeves. Make sure to put the fat part at the top. If you put them on backwards it will be airball city.
Start with one problem at a time. Go into switch test and test the switch at the Gimli VUK. Those fork switches are notorious for going bad.
Quoted from RadDad247:Had a buddy swing by to take a look. He's a pinball wiz. With the balls out we tested the switches. Balrog and Gimli VUK were not working, and oddly the ball launcher was now. We inspected the Balrog wires. The backplate was removed and he noticed quickly that some of the wires were exposed, and when crammed behind the backplate that most likely they were touching. Attached electrical tape on both exposed wires and bent them slightly to separate more. Attached backplate and tested the switch—now registering. Gimli VUK wasn't registering still. Looked under the playfield and noticed the switch didn't have a diode, ever. The game and Gimli VUK had been working fine, but perhaps it stopped because of no diode. Had a spare diode and installed on the Gimli VUK switch. Tested the switch and it began registering.
Hit start and the game is now up and running as it should! Thanks for the help everyone—really appreciate it. Will look into having a few switches on hand for when they go out.
If you look above at the switch matrix, switch 30 says "DOTS" next to it. This stands for diode on terminal strip. Meaning the switch should not have a diode on it. Could be the diode at the strip has a broken lug or wire going to it.
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