Nice, is the topper synchronized with game play? And for that matter, where did you get that topper?

Merci depuis la Bretagne

Hi everyone,

I'd like to tune my LOTR a little bit, as I have two issues that I would really like to fix.

These are :
- what is the best way to adjust the Balrog switch? Currently it registers about half of the shots
- The ball very often bounce back on the Aragorn ramp, it has difficulties to perform the U-turn

Thanks for any guidance you can provide

Oh my, that's when I realized that my skills at playing this game is abysmal... I would definitely like to see a video of you getting to DTR in less than one minute, if I undertsood correctly, I'm assuming you voluntarily do not complete the multiballs ?

Curious, what printer model do you use for that (especially the side blade)

Cheers

OK, I'm definitely curious now... How do you manage to line up perfectly the 4 pieces ? And... How do you laminate (sorry, noob here with regards to printing stuff).

And I would very very much appreciate your photoshop file for your blades

Anyone would have tips to adjust the Balrog switch ? Mine registers about half of the hits, even less sometime

Thanks

Good morning,

I've been having all of sudden failing left flipper on my LOTR, so I took a look and investigated further. Turns out the fuse was blown, but... I changed it and since then it has blown twice.

Before I blow any more fuse, I did further testing

- I checked the flyback diode, it was OK
- I used my current probe to check on amp during test, as it turns out:
- I have a current peak slightly above 4A on the left flipper
- I do not have this current peak on the right flipper

Kind of explain why my fuse kept blowing.

Now that does not explain why I have a higher current peak, is this typical of a transistor starting to go bad ?

On the questions now:
- I have the high power coils, would that explain the higher current peak ? If so, why only on the left flipper ?
- I looked at the schematics, could not find the reference to the flipper transistors, could someone give me a pointer ?
- Should I simply replace my 3A fuse with a 4A ? I assume it's not recommended...

Thanks

On my LOTR, I have two ground loops connected on my DMD, one on the left side (DMD only), one on the right side (display board).

Another gremlin creeped up in my LOTR

Has anyone encountered slingers firing randomly, even when the ball is not touching them at all ? This has been happening lately, and I kind of wonder what would cause that.

It's not a big deal since in any case the slinger do work when the ball hit them, but I'd like to get to the bottom of it in case there is an underlying issue.

Regards

Sigh, looks like I have more than one gremlin...

I realized that not only my slingshots were triggering when it should not be, but so was my auto-launch.

And what's even more funny: I also noticed that hitting the Balrog does trigger the auto launch coil...

I recall a few months ago that I had experienced various glitches, one of them being a Balrog hit triggering Tilt. Another one being the whole system doing a reset during play. It had not appeared for a few months.

I'll perform a full ground connection check, although what puzzles me the most is that the design of the control system should not trigger under any circumstance unless the command transistor is active, which means that there is a command being sent.

I would welcome guidance here, scratching my head.

I've been running a few tests:
- It's not a battery leak, because the battery holder is actually not on the CPU board anymore
- I checked all wires, reseated everything, nothing obvious

Now to the interesting part: I noticed that the auto launcher was triggering mostly during the Ballrog sequence, but OUTSIDE of the Fellowship multiball.

In other words, in the sequence where the Ballrog is blocking the ring ramp entrance and you have to hit it 3 or 4 times, that's when every single hit to the Ballrog will trigger the auto launch coil to kick off

If the Ballrog is hit during the "fellowship" multiball it does not trigger the auto launch coil.

This leads me to believe this is actually a real signal driven by the CPU board.

As it turns out, as raised by a friend, I had swapped the LOTR ROM to 10.02 and the newest PAL to support a shaker a few months ago. It could be that I had never noticed it before, because I was playing mostly Tron at that time.

I'll do a swap to the older ROM / PAL, but a few questions first:
- Can a damaged PAL cause this type of problem (messed up internal logic) ? What does the PAL control anyway ?
- Can I use the old PAL with the new CPU code, or do i have to swap both at the same time ? This is to rule out CPU vs PAL, just in case
- anyone with a LOTR LE or an LOTR with the shaker installed confirm/infirm whether they have a similar behaviour ?

Regards

Took the opportunity of my issues investigation to install the great 2Niro mods:

An interactive palantir with an animated floating eye in the crystal ball. Note that this is not a static image, it's actually the Sauron eye animation from the movie

A floating eye behind Barad Dur tower

Highly recommended

16129839170163011353879442215778 (resized).jpg

16129839410107809821224246132368 (resized).jpg

I investigated further.

You are right, triggering the balrog switch in test mode actually triggers the shooter lane switch. Which in non test mode triggers the autolaunch coil.
In "Fellowship" multiball, this coil does not activate, but I have yet to check in this mode if it would trigger anyway if the shooter lane switch was activated.

Tests to run:
- Check if Balrog switch triggers coils when Balrog is in closed position (ie not blocking entrance to the ramp)
- Start Fellowship multiball, put ball in shooter lane to see if it triggers autolaunch coil

That said the fact that the switch matrix does trigger the shooter lane switch when the Balrog switch is hit is an indication in itself

With regards to battery leaks, the previous owner had "moved" the battery to the side of the backglass with long wires, soldered these wires on the CPU board and put a load of what looks like putty paste (hard as a rock now). I don't see any obvious damage, even at close up.

So anyone would have any guidance on why my Balrog switch would trigger the shooter lane switch?

I also still have the slings triggering when they should not be, so I'm definitely thinking the switch matrix is causing problem, but how do I debug this?

This is a very good source of information, thank you for the link. Time to go chase this faulty diode (which seems to be the case in my symptoms).

And it turns out that this very well explains my experience: when in multiball, the trough is empty, so the normally closed switches are now open...

Thanks @killerrobots, I'm pretty sure I found the answer with your guide:

During switch test mode, I can see that if "Ball Trough 2", "Balrog Closed" and "Balrog Hit" switches are closed, this triggers the shooter lane switch detection. And they form a rectangle.

This is exactly the symptom of a shorted diode as outlined in your guide on one of these 4 diodes, so now it's a matter of testing them.

Well a phantom switch seems awfully close to what I had seen myself (except it was in the shooter lane), and I debugged it thanks to a link provided by another pinsider:
https://homepinballrepair.com/pinball-switch-lamp-matrix-troubleshooting/

basically a shorted diode results into a phantom switch triggering when three switches are closed, in my case one opto in the ball trough, the balrog close switch and the balrog hit would cause a phantom detection of the shooter lane switch.

Good choice. I have all three 2Niro mods installed, and they are top notch

I'm puzzled...

I finally found the time to try to identify the culprit diode in my phantom switch issue (as a reminder, hitting the Balrog when the "balrog close", ball through 2 switch were closed resulted into a plunger phantom switch). I tested all diodes, except the Balrog switch diode, as it's simply not there... I can't find it. I would have assumed it would be behind the Balrog, but that's not the case.

So unless the diode unsoldered and got loose somewhere, where is it located ?? And if it's indeed missing, that's even more puzzling as a missing diode would not cause a phantom switch from what I understand of the mecanics, am I right ?

Cheers

Now I understand why the ball was bouncing back on mine.... it’s missing the spacer completely, and it’s reversed as well... would welcome the dimensions of the spacer so that I can 3D print it

Regards

Anyone would have a 2D scan at scale of this plastic piece?

I can print it using a resin printer for the plastic part, and a ink jet printer for the sticker, but would need a full scan, if anyone can share...

Thanks

20210329_192226 (resized).jpg

Reading this... I'm super surprised, my LOTR has rubber bands which force the exit of the ball only on the wire ramp... So now I want to fix

And... I did not know that either... One more reason to remove the diverter. Provided that I can find a plastic ramp to protect below

I would welcome that indeed, will PM you

Regards

Posting here for a friend: he has a replacement Whitestar board in his Lotr, as the original was dead.

However... It does not boot. There isn't even the Blinking led which allows to identify the Sound OS revision

So a few questions:
- it's very likely this replacement board was from another game. Even though all Roms have been replaced, is there a specific rom/component that would be important to replace to allow the board to boot
- can the sound OS, PAL affect boot? I'm pretty sure PAL does not, but I could be wrong
- besides replacing all Roms, any suggestion to debug?

Regards

Good morning everyone

My LOTR started to exhibit sudden reset in game, randomly (and inconstently)

Before I go out and check 5v level, watchdog threshold configuration pin (which was left floating on some manufacturing builds), power board tick, is there anything else you would recommend to check first, as the above would require me to set up a scope to trigger and capture signals when the game reset

Thanks

2Niro interactive mod is in my opinion way better:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/barad-dur-sauron-eye-and-palantir-interactive-orb-mods-lotr

One question, can someone shoot me a picture of the divider between the legolas ramp and Pippin loop, taken from the same angle as my picture. Looks like mine is a hacked repair, and there are damage to the metal part behind (apologies for the quality, picture was taken with glass on), and so I'd like to compare

Thanks

181460190_494025475278811_3427778585274092449_n (resized).jpg

Well at least the blue bumper is protecting the ramp guide, whereas on mine it's probably useless.

Any pointer on where to find that ramp guide ? (ok I'm lazy, I suspect Marco specialities has it, just need to dig the PN).

Alternatively, I was thinking of adding a Z shape metal, that would add a protection on the ramp guide, and hold the original blue bumper in place

Many thanks, saved me from going back in time in the thread

Just need to figure out how to hide the damage on the ramp guide now...

Wow, I'm surprised, this part is actually cheap, probably not worth me spending time to try to repair the existing one:

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/535-9281-00

But on a sidenote, the original manual shows that the blue pad is simply screwed in to the metal guide

Looks like this L shape metal part is not standard, and I could not find any reference to it in LOTR manual

So I supposed it was either added later on, anyone would have a reference ?

[EDIT] Found it in the thread, PN is 535-9366-00
Wonder why it's not referenced in the manual though

Curious on your sword mod, can you share a full picture? And where did you get it?

Regards

That would be appreciated yes, thanks

So I see that you're having sometime the same issue as me, ie the ball shot cannot dislodge the ball in the ring. I've hit it solidly 4 times, the ball just bounce on it.

Good morning

I just transferred a colordmd from a TZ to my LOTR (as there is a colorization on pin2dmd for TZ, but not for LOTR). Wiring and mounting was easy, but... The colordmd is further in recess compared to the original plasma (or for that matter pin2dmd even), so from my viewpoint, I can't see the top two lines of the DMD.

I'm assuming that's because I'm missing the mounting accessories for Stern Whitestar, I assume there is a separate bracket or a set of spacers + screws?

Also, looks like my back trough switch is faulty (the one behind the ring), it randomly registers... Looks like I'm in for a repair

Thanks, will prepare a set of photos.

Note that I transferred the ColorDMD unit from a WPC, and since it was pre-installed I did not have any additional equipment.

Anyone would have recommendation/insight on how to access this damn switch behind the backboard (the one in the exit trough from the ring) ? The manual clearly shows it, but I shudder to think of how to remove the ramp, and most importantly reinstall it afterward

Cheers

Is that a specific ROM code, or pre-installed profile?

Need to dig it up now...

Curious, where did you buy them and for how much ?

They are damn expensive in Europe for what they are

I'm a little bit unsure on the fact that you get fine control on shaker event just by monitoring switches. For example on my LOTR the shaker only triggers on the characters if other conditions are met (not already obtained, multiball not done, etc).

Pinsound shaker uses sound commands

If you have a Pinsound, pinsound shaker is super easy to install and get fine shaker control, if a little bit expensive

That said I've installed the official Lotr shaker, it's not that complicated (well provided you know a little but what you're doing)

Agreed, but if he has a Pinsound (likely), then the Pinsound shaker is likely to give him the best experience, and it's super easy to install

Check continuity between pin 10 and pin 1,2,3...9, both on the male connector on the power board itself and the female connector (going to the flasher).

If one of the transistor is permanently to ground, this would light the flasher all the time, but it should not cause the fuse to blow unless the flasher has a very low resistance resulting into a high amp draw.

However a short in the flasher would result into the fuse blowing when this particular flasher is lit.

That's certainly odd. When you get continuity on the female connector, you are testing with the connector unplugged, right?

Remove the corresponding bulbs and test again. If the flashers are faulty the continuity should disappear. If not, check the wiring under the playfield, ie at the flasher connection

Continuity on the power board 10 to 6 is rather problematic though, if confirmed. Every time this flasher is triggered, the corresponding transistor will pull pin 6 to ground, and if you have zero ohm between pin 10 and 6, boom fuse blows. If confirmed, that's going to be more problematic to debug. You will need to trace the signals in the power board to determine where there is a short (as there has to be one), will be easier with the power board fully removed

Wow, congratulation....

Can we add a poll to this thread listing "did you make it to Valinor", "did you complete Valinor" and the various semi-finals below that?

To see how abysmal I am at this game....

Anyone would know what are the current available options for Arwen plastic protector?

Thanks

I was referring to the protector which precisely protects that piece of plastic...

On another note, I'm going to start the swap of my LOTR playfield (to a NOS playfield I bought a few months ago).

Any advice ? Never done a playfield swap before (but I do hold my ground in terms of electronics and repairs, so this does not particularily scare me, just want to plan ahead).

I was planning to swap first all the underside mechanics before starting upside, and I'll have a custom made rotissoire to hold the new playfield. Or should I actually put the old playfield on the rotissoire and mount the new playfield and proceed from there ?

Cheers

Ready to swap, custom made rotisserie (love diy...)

Question though, I'm curious : in my NOS playfield I can see some areas which are slightly higher than the rest of the playfield, as if they were printed in a different material.

See picture attached, you can clearly see the outline of a double ring, and it's not flush with the playfield

Fortunately they are in almost invisible areas, but I happen to have the exact same symptoms on my Tron, so wondering what these are, anyone would know ?

Thanks

20210919_232338 (resized).jpg

Thanks for the explanation, I'd heard about Mylar but always assumed it was applied on a larger area, not to mention that the cut has a "shape"

I indeed love my Dialed In. The one gripe I have is... the music... God the music... Theme is alright (under rated in my opinion, it's actually well thought out), but the music is downright awful... It would benefit from a major overhaul. On top of that, the rythm of the music is such that it gets in your head and you just can't get it out...

I wish there was a Pinball Browser version for DialedIn frankly, so we could swap musics

Very nice. Do you intend to sell it or post it on thingiverse?

Regards

This is really nice. Maybe a WS2812 ledstrip behind the lava flow to add animation would be nice (with a simple control box).

If you need help on this just reach out to me

Cheers

IMO 2Niro Palantir is miles above. Animated and interactive, you have a feeling of the eye of sauron floating in the Palantir.

https://mezelmods.com/products/lord-of-the-rings-pinball-palantir-crystal-sphere

Good morning,

In the process of reassembling my LOTR after a playfield swap, I have a question mark. The ball rail guide between the left orbit and the the left inner loop (Legolas) has a blue rubber piece to protect it from ball impact (which is very often, given it's location).

As you can see in the attached picture, mine is attached with a rivet (even though it should be a screw according to the manual), and it has slided to such a position that it can no longer efficiently protect the guide

I bought a new rail guide and rubber pad, but looking at it I see the mounting hole is oval (see picture). This means the pad will slide back over time, to the point where it cannot protect correctly the ball guide

So questions are:
- How is the blue rubber pad mounted on your machine ? Screw or rivet ?
- How to prevent the pad to slide back ? I was thinking of adding a 3D printed part to fill the hole
- Seems like an odd design choice, has there been any alternative solution ?

Thanks and regards

259689741_293534869336332_739365374203041718_n (resized).jpg

259753438_423834236115856_6238148621535017107_n (resized).jpg

Ah thanks, indeed I'm missing that part, this makes more sense. I'll check the manual again to find the Part number

Regards

I was actually asking myself the very same question!

Good morning

I find that my backboard decal is kind of wrinkled, but could not find a replacement, would anyone have any pointer?

Thanks

Hi everyone

In the process of swapping my LOTR playfield, I replaced all bulbs with led. Of course, I added a ledocd for good measure, however... There's something very very odd (something which I had not seen in my CFTBL using WPC ledocd)

Basically :
- I have a lot of ghosting if the row (or column, can't remember) is activated. For example if I turn on the Legolas arrow, all inserts below (dwarf, elf, man) turn on dimly. Yes I used cheap non ghosting leds, that was actually the point
- in manual control I have a stable brightness level, however in game mode there is a lot of flickering, especially when the insert reach full brightness
- all backboard insert remain lit dimly (so ghosting), even though they should be completely off (even in manual mode). Looks like there is a residual voltage (this applies to all potd lights, and all mission lights)
- The sword lane inserts are also almost fully lit, even in off mode, although that could be a design choice. When testing them in test mode, they do lit slightly more when selected

Has anyone encountered these issues?

Sidenote... Fitting a pinsound and a ledocd in the backbox is quite an endeavor...

It's always a bumpy ride in Pinball renovation land...

I partially reassembled my LOTR, plugged in all inserts sockets, when testing with the original incandescent inserts, it was working fine, each insert was turning on individually nicely.

Replaced the incandescent bulbs with LED (yes I was planning to add an ledocd), and now several inserts turn on when they should not. And I can't find a coherent pattern (meaning there is a pattern, but it's not coherent with shorted diodes, shorted columns or rows, etc)

I made two scope shoot:
- For an insert that is driven on, I see a 10ms period pulse at 12V
- For the inserts that should not turn on, I see a 10ms period pulse at 6V

An incandescent light will not turn on at 6V, a LED will turn on (I swapped just to confirm)

Here is a link to a video I made, when cycling insert in test mode:

Using incandescent, I'm pretty sure this would work fine, since at 6V pulse they will not turn on

As noted, I was planning to add a ledocd, as I'm very familiar with how led work and their downside. For that matter, I have ledocd/afterglow in all my machines (can't live without it).

Issue is very specific to my LOTR here, where even when adding a ledocd I get some inserts that turn on when they should not. So it's likely a playfield wiring issue, but I can't understand the pattern

Also, the 6V pulse train is not on all insert, it varies depending on which insert is being controlled. If it was to keep the filament warm, one would think that ALL insert would receive such a pulse train, no ?

That's exactly what I'm trying to figure out, ie whether this 6V pulse is a Whitestar design choice (and if so whether ledocd can compensate for that)

Based on TinyBlackDog it would seem it works with ledocd, so there's probably something fishy in my machine

I just had a feedback from a friend who also has a LOTR and an oscilloscope, he took a measurement: no 6V pulse when the led is supposed to be off.

So back to my machine, which obviously has a problem... Sigh...

Yes I did, even non ghosting LED do turn on.

As for ROM revision, it's LE code (I have the shaker installed - so 10.02 if I recall), but it's an original HW run.

Given the symptoms (this 6V pulse train is definitely not normal), I'm pretty sure it's a playfield wiring issue (I can reproduce the issue with ledocd by manually controlling ledocd output, so it's not the power board)

Could someone post me a picture of the socket cabling on a LOTR shooter lane (the 9 controlled inserts which are in row, just next to the shooter lane)

I've been debugging my LOTR insert matrix problems, and everything points toward an issue with the shooter lane. I'm therefore starting to think the wiring of all sockets of the shooter lane is incorrect. It did not appear with incandescent because the low residual voltage (6V, 10ms pulse) is not sufficient to turn them on (I tested), but led are affected.

Not that I know off. But I'll check again (I did a playfield swap, so I should have noticed, but you never know)

It's not. It's working correctly with incandescent, but based on what's below this is pure luck, and because incandescent do not light up at lower voltage.

I checked the soldering on the shooter lane, compared it with the manual, and did a continuity test. They wired it wrong in manufacturing, the wiring is such that it's as if the diode was not present at all (they reversed two lugs assuming they were interchangeable, and reversed the diode accordingly, without realizing that with this wiring, one leg of the diode is... Left floating. Not connected to anything).

That explains pretty much all of my behavior, since the whole shooter lane is wired like this, an entire row without any diode...

Thanks that confirms my suspicion

My whole shooter lane is wired incorrectly. And that's obviously a manufacturing error. It's only because the original inserts are incandescent that it worked in the first place

Uh oh... This is the Shire VUK switch mechanics (or the Gimli VUK). Basically press the switch when the ball is in the VUK.

Also, if you're adding LED, you MUST add a ledocd as well. LOTR is one of the few games where incandescent fading is very pronounced, and without ledocd it loses all effects, not to mention flashing and strobing

There's an Italian guy who can manufacture siderails and hinges, but raw or only a few selected colors. Just did it and powder coated to blue (waiting for them to arrive)

Costly to ship to the US though (I'm located in Europe, so it's easier for me)

Ah that's interesting. It's definitely not a ColorDMD issue. We had this exact same behavior on a Simpson pinball party. Cleaned up connectors, reflow them, swap ribbon cables, nothing could fix it reliably, until we replaced the original DMD with a Pin2dmd. Can't say what was the root cause, if it was a borderline signal, power supply level, but it's definitely gone.

What's odd in your case is that you're already using a colordmd, so your fix might not be the same as ours.

French here But I'll keep writing in english as a courtesy to others

Would you mind sharing the interactivity on this topper ?

And curious, was this done by yourself ?

Thanks for the details

So it's an arduino based solution which monitors the flasher/coils (does not monitor insert if I recall correctly). I have one lying around, might try it if i get a chance

Cheers

So your second design you change the filament just after printing the first few layers ? Or do you use a dual extruder ?

I'm not sure also what you mean by "file it", you seem to have modified your design to accomodate without filing the 3D part, am I right ?

If it's a pinsound mix, you can simply zip it and post it to pinsound community website, they have a hosting service precisely for that

Many months ago I started a journey to perform a playfield swap. Of course, family and work got in the way, so one thing led to another, and one year later the machine is still not operational...

Basically, here's where I stand: all inserts and electronic mechs beneath the playfield are assembled. It's the topside that I need to assemble.

But of course, every time I want to work on it, I'm wondering... where in the world do I start ?? Because it's been so long that I can't remember in which order should I reassemble everything.

So after a few months hiatus, I really want to get back to it, so guidance would be welcome

Cheers

Simply because in France many many cars (actually the majority) cannot accommodate a folded down pinball machine.

Mine does, but it's not the majority by far.

Are you transferring the colordmd from another machine? If so, you might require some standoffs to mount the DMD controller board behind the DMD itself (I know I did). Also, is this the Lcd or dmd version?

You can reach me by PM by the way, I'm in France

Techy talk mode on, just to explain what ledocd is all about

Some will claim that leds are not created equal, and that non ghosting led would work as well in many case.
But that's simply not the case.

An incandescent light brightness is a function of the current, which in turn is a function of the voltage applied for a fixed resistance. So in the case of LOTR inserts, the voltage curve is relatively slow on many inserts, creating a nice fading effect.

An led has no intermediate brightness level. It's either fully on, if voltage is above the trigger threshold, or fully off.
Worse: when your voltage is oscillating close to the trigger threshold, your led will turn on and off, and will appear to flicker.

The ONLY way to solve this is to add a control electronic system which will allow to recreate some level of brightness perception (note the perception term here).

Basically it's a high frequency (4khz or more) pulse cycle, for which you can adjust the "On" duration vs the "Off" duration (this is called the duty cycle). If duty cycle is set to 100%, "On" duration is 100%, "off" duration is 0%. If duty cycle is set to 50%, "on" duration is 50%. So the led is actually flickering at a high frequency (4khz or above as noted)

Retina persistence does the rest, because of the high frequency you don't see the flicker, but you have a "perception" that light is less bright (because your eye receive less photons).

Without this control electronic, it is absolutely impossible to recreate a nice fading effect with LED bulbs, period.

Hence why I have a ledocd (or an Afterglow, that's the open source DIY version) in all my old pinball machines, I can't stand the strobe effects without it

Techy talk mode off

Well for completeness sake, I should point out that you can control led brightness by controlling the current flowing through it. But it's much more complex for the control board, whereas PWM, especially when driving this with a digital micro controller is far easier

Any USB drive should work (well, with the caveat of cross compatibility)

All pinsound mixes are available here (there are more than three):
https://www.pinsound-community.org/index.php?/files/category/92-the-lord-of-the-rings/

You don't need to download or run Pinsound SW to install the soundpacks on the USB stick, it's just a matter of uncompressing in a folder each zip file and put it on the USB stick.

Pinsound SW is only needed if you want to play around and change these packs. I actually don't think I ever used it myself (not in any meaningful way)