Oh, now i get it.
No idea...

Try utilities/installs/competition. I'd have to double check in the manual, but that is the only way to set some games to 2 tilt warnings(Tommy for example).

I just got a LOTR and started shopping it. So far it's fairly straightforward.

The very first I lifted up the playfield all the way, I noticed that the bottom end of the playfield was resting not on the flat metal bars with a curved end that are screwed under the playfield (the edge slides), but on the woodrails. Somehow the bars are not long enough. The miniplayfield also endd up hitting the metal rails that are attached to the cabinet, and the very bottom left plastic that sits in the angle got broken as a result. I will take some pics that show the setup. To avoid this, the playfield bars would need to be extended by 3/4 inch or so.

Anyone noticed this as well or this is something that's specific to my machine?

Anyone know where to get replacement LEDs for the rings-count LEDs on the PCB mounted by the flippers? Or what the specs are? A couple of mine are out, and verified as bad.

520-5242-00 is the board part #. The manual does not break it down into components, but they do look like just standard 3mm LED's. Of course you'd need the correct color, either white, yellow or red. The LED's are all clear. Something similar to what you would find here....

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=115

I wish somebody made a warm white LED that size. My machine is all warm white except for those.

I ordered this from Amazon back in the fall to replace my 3 white ring LEDS that had failed, and they are a bit brighter than original but have worked fine ever since:

"microtivity IL051 5mm Clear White LED (Pack of 25)"

You can just get some acrylic paint (about $1 at craft store) around the shade you like and just paint the lens.

Thanks for the LED tips, I will order some and hope the spec is alright.

Saw that in the manual too, and that board goes for over $100! Should be a simple fix, but they're definitely 5mm LEDs. I just don't want to get the wrong spec that fries or is too dim. Maybe I can get some useful info with DMM.

Oh... That would explain why I didn't win if switch 48 isn't the issue. I knocked the ball so lightly, it went so slowly I'm sure I hit plenty of switched before switch 48 would have triggered. (In fact, the plastic under the ring was broken so the ball basically fell straight into the path of the dead vuk.)

you can get teh white bulbs from radio shack for the ring count. might be able to get the others too since they are common colors

Nice mod. I like it interacting with the light indicators for soul counts.

Would anyone who has performed the conversion on a Standard LOTR to accept the shaker mod like to tell me where to get the chips for the CPU and display? I have the PAL chip from pinbits and the Stern shaker Rev B from Pinball Life. I just need all the latest revision chips associated with the retrofit. Thank you in advance. JLC

I just put the shaker in my standard. I believe the only other chip you would need, if you already have the V.10 display ROM, is the V.10.02 game ROM. I burned my own. Let me know if you would me to burn one for you.

In my case, my game already had the V.10 display ROM, so I didn't need to replace that chip. I do have the ROM for that as well though.

Ever notice the LOTR haters always bring up long ball times?

LOTR has longer-than-average ball times. That's a fact, and you don't have to be a hater to acknowledge this.

Obviously, you can set the game up to shorten average ball times (i.e., open the outlanes, increase the difficulty settings), but the playfield layout, with the Shire "safety net" that catches many out-of-control balls on the left hand side of the playfield and safely delivers them to the left flipper, is going to leave you with longer ball times on average than, say, IM.

What is the average ball time on a pinball game?
What is the average ball time on LOTR?

I like facts.

Good, go collect those facts and report back.

I removed my outlane posts for a tournament and never put them back. Ball times seem about right now.

I "hear" iron man has shorter than normal ball times. That it is brutal.

Why would someone use this as the "standard" for arguing ball times? Clearly, it is not the standard.

Compared to what?

What modern pin has ball times shorter than IM? Answer: GB

What modern pin has ball times longer than LOTR? Answer: GOT

I love all four!

Ok, let's start with some facts. I only own 5 modern Stern games.

LOTR: 243 plays. 18 fifteen minute+ games.

Tron: 762 plays. 3 fifteen minute+ games.

Iton Man: 132 plays. No games above 10 minutes.

GOT: Unfortunately I just loaded the new software last night. I'd put it between Tron and LOTR for playtime.

RCT: Isn't currently setup, but I'd say it is between Tron and GOT for playtime.

(The only reason the audits are so few games is resets, new versions, and this is my second LOTR).

As expected, LOTR has the longest games. However, I don't understand how anyone can consider that a bad thing. The software is epic and takes time to experience. If I'm in a hurry, I don't play LOTR because I don't want to catch the tiger by the tail.

I guess the other knock is that after years of owning LOTR, when I play it, I only play a game or two. But again, LOTR isn't a "game after game" kind of game. It's a quest. It has a lot of different objectives to try for. Some nights it's DTR, others I'm trying to reach TABA, and other nights I want to collect as many gifts as I can. That's what makes it so darn great.

This is it. Like marathon running. A marathoner only does one or two a year. Outside of that there are fun runs, social jogging, track meets. Different incarnations of the same thing. LOTR is the KING of that type of machine. Settle in for the type of game you feel like on any particular day. You can have it all. No other machine comes close. Except maybe the Whitestar Hand of the King, TSPP.

With similar outlane posts settings? I have limited experience with GoT and have only had about 20 plays, but I did not notice any long ball times.

Maybe I should say that GOT can play as long or longer than LOTR. With stock outlanes and liberal tilt the game can last a very long time. Especially with EB's left on. A decent game is gonna net you 1 and probably 2 EB's. We've had some league nights where a four player match on GOT seems about as long as S-M or ST.

Check those outlanes on GOT. The "stock" outlane position changed after the first run because it was playing too long. If it is playing as long as SM, that is much too long.

Extra balls have nothing to do with ball time.

Extra balls may make the game longer.

Everybody confuses what "long ball times" means. Probably on purpose.

Has nothing to do with rules.

Ball time is measured like 1:05 min per ball.

So much bad info from the community. Have to just ignore the lies and hate.

Bullshit like, "I once played the game for 2 hours". Total crap. Totally misleading. Intent is to put the game down.

Average ball time is like 1-2 minutes max. Long ball times is a lie. If not, prove it.

Can depend on the player and how it is set up.

Average ball times per ball. LOTR has average ball times.

Listen, nobody in my family complains about balls lasting too long. They WANT longer ball times. My 17-year-old said I should sell IM because it's too hard, lol.

But I've used LOTR for league and tournament play, and before I removed the outlane posts, LOTR and RFM were always the 2 games that kept us waiting to start the next round. I've tweaked them such that they are not a problem now...POTC is currently my big bottleneck. This is with EBs disabled on all DMDs, by the way.

It's becoming clear to me that it is the people who OWN or prefer games with VERY SHORT BALL TIMES who are saying this like a broken record over and over and over again.

They always compare it to IM or some other brutal game with ultra short ball times.

They want LOTR to move down in popularity, and these games to be more popular.

Of course if you are in a tournament you'd prefer the game end quickly so you can go home.

A five year old says to a ten year old, "you are old". It's relative.

It's these people who are doing this and giving it a bad name. LOTR DOES NOT have long ball times.

Compare it to an average game. It's average!

Call them out! It's bullshit!

I agree with most of what you said. It bothers me too. When I get home today I will get some audits and post some solid facts!

I'll post my DMD audits too, should be interesting.

Here ya go. LOTR is the longest, but only by a few seconds.
Average ball times in order shortest to longest:

Tommy 1:03
Tron 1:19
CV 1:21
Met premium 1:27
AFM 1:38
GOT premium 1:39
LOTR 1:43

Also, I would like to add that my wife plays GOT quite a bit and she is not very good, so those times would be even higher.

There is some confirmation. A reasonable 1:43 minute average ball time. Just SECONDS above the other games!

I'd like more data from other owners.

Let's destroy this falsehood once and for all.

Then, if confirmed by our proof, let's put together a statement that can be quoted to refute this blatant attack against our game!

LOTR

Long ball times are a lie.
The average ball time for LOTR is around x mins set up normally.
An average game of pinball is x mins.
Stop spreading false information.

Thank you LOTR owners

Please report your:

Earnings audit 3 Ball time
Earnings audit 4 Game time

Mine:

3 - 1:19
4 - 4:35

Thank you for participating and supporting LOTR owners.

Look at these LOTR game time FACTS:

image.jpeg

Who cares. It's a great game.

People who did not help or worked against the LOTR ball time and game time study:

Pauloz
Flynnibus

Fellowship members:
(Helpful people who provided LOTR ball time, game time, or other data)

LOTR_breath
DaveH
Swampfire

OK, I'll play.

1:32 - POTC
1:19 - LOTR (outlane posts removed)
1:05 - MET
0:58 - Congo
0:51 - RFM (outlanes wide open)
0:49 - IM

Why do people (including me) think that ball times are much longer on LOTR if the audits show that they're not? Is it because the main theme gets annoying after a while and it just feels like it's taking longer to play? Serious question.

Average LOTR game time here is 4:05.

I would add that LOTR_breath is a top notch player and does indeed have LOTR on his breath. So his ball times should have been MUCH higher.

Yes. We will consider player and set ups. Thank you.

Because the games came from a commercial setting where shorter ball times were the norm.. why on earth are you just trying antagonize here with these obtuse comments that put your head in the sand when there is 50+ years of history sitting on your face?

you can sit here and scream all you want... but those of us with actual experience know otherwise. We put the game in tournaments with the very same players on other games in the room... LOTR plays longer than the other 12 games in the room. Fact. And this is with extra balls OFF. This is easy to tell because we play a round.. where we all have to wait for games to complete. The behavior is stark and impossible to ignore.

Don't believe us.. come to Pinaholics Anonymous on Saturday.. where these facts will be demonstrated yet again, like they have been every tournament before.

We know from large amounts of tournament experience that the games do play longer. When you play hundreds of games over a large set of players its easy to identify games that play short, and games that play long. Because the long players screw up your tournament if not managed properly

I expect lots of negativity or hate from some people. This is Pinside.

I also expect helpful people. It's like a minute to get the audit and post it.

Which are you?

Ah, I think you're on to something there. While the average ball/game time isn't much different than other pins, a really good game tends to play much longer than good game on other pins. I can definitely see that, and that's why it's a problem in tourneys.

BTW I just played a longish game (destroyed the ring), and it didn't feel long to me. Felt just fine.

Put LOTR in a tourney with S-M and see which one holds things up.

And POTC for that matter.

Hey guys, I don't think you can use ball times as a metric. You need to use game time. The more multiballs a game has, the lower the ball time as balls are harder to keep in play during multiball. LOTR has a lot of easy to achieve multiballs. I think multiballs are averaged into ball time. So it throws off the metric a lot.

Attack? I just checked my gameroom, and nobody was attacking my LOTR. Personally I don't give a hoot when someone says something bad about a game I own. It's no big deal. The data is interesting to me that my LOTR has twice the ball time of my Tron. I would have guessed longer, but facts are facts. But outside of that, none of it matters. LOTR is great. One of the best ever made. That's all.

Hey chaps.

Could some kind soul please supply me with a hi-res scan (or high quality photo) of the area below the Shoot Again insert (below the flippers) ?
I have just bought a very nice LOTR but as it is a UK model it has the frickin' stupid 'skill' posts installed. I would like to remove the bottom one and make a better fitting plug with a decal to cover it.