Another gremlin creeped up in my LOTR

Has anyone encountered slingers firing randomly, even when the ball is not touching them at all ? This has been happening lately, and I kind of wonder what would cause that.

It's not a big deal since in any case the slinger do work when the ball hit them, but I'd like to get to the bottom of it in case there is an underlying issue.

Regards

Maybe the leaf switches are too close and vibration is causing it but you would normally get multiple sling movement when a ball hits the sling.
Also check the connections/cables below.

I just sold a CC play field and have these guys if anyone is interested?

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Superpops1 asking $750. It’s a later run NOS playfield. Made by Churchill cabinet company. PM me if interested.

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Sigh, looks like I have more than one gremlin...

I realized that not only my slingshots were triggering when it should not be, but so was my auto-launch.

And what's even more funny: I also noticed that hitting the Balrog does trigger the auto launch coil...

I recall a few months ago that I had experienced various glitches, one of them being a Balrog hit triggering Tilt. Another one being the whole system doing a reset during play. It had not appeared for a few months.

I'll perform a full ground connection check, although what puzzles me the most is that the design of the control system should not trigger under any circumstance unless the command transistor is active, which means that there is a command being sent.

I would welcome guidance here, scratching my head.

I've been running a few tests:
- It's not a battery leak, because the battery holder is actually not on the CPU board anymore
- I checked all wires, reseated everything, nothing obvious

Now to the interesting part: I noticed that the auto launcher was triggering mostly during the Ballrog sequence, but OUTSIDE of the Fellowship multiball.

In other words, in the sequence where the Ballrog is blocking the ring ramp entrance and you have to hit it 3 or 4 times, that's when every single hit to the Ballrog will trigger the auto launch coil to kick off

If the Ballrog is hit during the "fellowship" multiball it does not trigger the auto launch coil.

This leads me to believe this is actually a real signal driven by the CPU board.

As it turns out, as raised by a friend, I had swapped the LOTR ROM to 10.02 and the newest PAL to support a shaker a few months ago. It could be that I had never noticed it before, because I was playing mostly Tron at that time.

I'll do a swap to the older ROM / PAL, but a few questions first:
- Can a damaged PAL cause this type of problem (messed up internal logic) ? What does the PAL control anyway ?
- Can I use the old PAL with the new CPU code, or do i have to swap both at the same time ? This is to rule out CPU vs PAL, just in case
- anyone with a LOTR LE or an LOTR with the shaker installed confirm/infirm whether they have a similar behaviour ?

Regards

I bought a new PAL and 10.02 CPU to update code and install a shaker. I put the new 10.02 chip in. I did NOT put the PAL chip in yet so I don't see why you can't swap the old one.

You still need to take a close look for stains and damage. Battery acid can continue to soak in and cause damage after the batteries are gone.

It is chip U213 just to the left of the CPU ROM, notch side goes downward!!

Does anyone have a good guide for installing an nvram on LOTR?

Took the opportunity of my issues investigation to install the great 2Niro mods:

An interactive palantir with an animated floating eye in the crystal ball. Note that this is not a static image, it's actually the Sauron eye animation from the movie

A floating eye behind Barad Dur tower

Highly recommended

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I just received my 3D lenticular apron cards from @YouBentMyWookie.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1289-youbentmywookie

They look great in person.

Here is a short video:

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Any luck fixing this problem?
My middle lock switch is registering as one of the paths of the dead switches only during game play, not during switch testing. Was working like a dream yesterday, almost destroyed the ring last night. Today after light waxing (nothing unscrewed) I'm getting this weird mixup.
(I'm certainly amateur at wiring so any details helps!)

Is it "mini playfield upper right"? That's in the same row as "sword lock mid".

That's what I'm assuming is happening. But I don't know because in the switch diagnostics menu they trigger individually like normal. How would I test or solve that problem if it is that same row problem?

I just tried to tighten up some connections. No idea what actually cleared the problem up.

It is probably related to another switch activated in combination. (that's why switch matrix diode problems present themselves in multiball)

Try putting 1 ball in the sword lock and see if they act flaky then, etc.

Thanks!

Great idea! I was reading a little more and think the Orthank vuk might be misfiring and then since the ball lock is on the same line it's starting Paths of the Dead.

I'll update if thats the fix!

Update, can't find the source of my problem
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lotr-strange-switch-problem-help

Nvram is very easy, its just a chip swap and no solder work involved.

So any whitestar video on YouTube should be fine then

Just make sure you get the right nvram. Take one chip out and replace it with the nvram chip. Its very straight forward just be careful to put in the correct way, chip has a notch on one side, nvram has notch screen printed on the little pcb.

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Thanks for the info

i sell the 10.02 cpu , 10.0 display , u213 regular and u213 gold as well as nvram for this game.

I did the backbox led conversion on my IJ4. Its the same fluorescent as LotR. I love how it looks on IJ4 but not sure If i want that same uniform light in LotR

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I put in a Coin Taker LED panel. Looks great. Eye is color changing.

I used the arcade upkeep one. It dims when the game starts to reduce glare. Its kinda cool.

http://www.arcadeupkeep.com/shop/4594679907/dimming-backbox-panel/11365967

Added a couple of spotlights, looking good

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I investigated further.

You are right, triggering the balrog switch in test mode actually triggers the shooter lane switch. Which in non test mode triggers the autolaunch coil.
In "Fellowship" multiball, this coil does not activate, but I have yet to check in this mode if it would trigger anyway if the shooter lane switch was activated.

Tests to run:
- Check if Balrog switch triggers coils when Balrog is in closed position (ie not blocking entrance to the ramp)
- Start Fellowship multiball, put ball in shooter lane to see if it triggers autolaunch coil

That said the fact that the switch matrix does trigger the shooter lane switch when the Balrog switch is hit is an indication in itself

With regards to battery leaks, the previous owner had "moved" the battery to the side of the backglass with long wires, soldered these wires on the CPU board and put a load of what looks like putty paste (hard as a rock now). I don't see any obvious damage, even at close up.

Feeling a bit stupid with this one but whatever, how the hell do you get the spinner on? The arm fell off my last one and I'm trying to replace

I just replaced mine and it was kind of tricky. I can't remember exactly what worked but you have to slide one side in farther than it would operate until it is close and then force it the final millimeter or so. Keep playing with it.

I had the same initial thought as the ramp is one solid piece.

So anyone would have any guidance on why my Balrog switch would trigger the shooter lane switch?

I also still have the slings triggering when they should not be, so I'm definitely thinking the switch matrix is causing problem, but how do I debug this?

I would go to the switch level menu and check all the switches and note what is triggering multiple switches. Based on those results you can then follow this guide:

https://homepinballrepair.com/pinball-switch-lamp-matrix-troubleshooting/

The wires for the switch inside balrog can get frayed and broken. Maybe they are shorting to ground or another wire and causing issues.

This is a very good source of information, thank you for the link. Time to go chase this faulty diode (which seems to be the case in my symptoms).

And it turns out that this very well explains my experience: when in multiball, the trough is empty, so the normally closed switches are now open...

This thing is driving me nuts, I can't get it in and I'm scared to force it too hard.

Give me a little while but I can take off my glass and see if I can take a picture of the install.

Before I do that, are you sure you have the right one? This is what I ordered.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/515-7088-01

Actually harder to get off than on but here is what I did.

Insert your left side so it is sitting on top of the limit switch and the right side is positioned higher on the ramp. Like this:

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Then drag the right end down the ramp surface until you get to the hole and it pops in. I was also pulling the side of the ramp away from the spinner but it doesn't deflect much so this might not help at all. There will be some resistance but mine survived.

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Another view:

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I bought one of these modded Balrog toppers with the lights second hand. Anyone have one and what light did you tie it into under the playfield?

Thanks

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Thanks @killerrobots, I'm pretty sure I found the answer with your guide:

During switch test mode, I can see that if "Ball Trough 2", "Balrog Closed" and "Balrog Hit" switches are closed, this triggers the shooter lane switch detection. And they form a rectangle.

This is exactly the symptom of a shorted diode as outlined in your guide on one of these 4 diodes, so now it's a matter of testing them.

That sounds right to me. I have also had the diode solder come loose so wiggle them and make sure they are attached well.

Is it just me or does the Balrog look like Spike from Gremlins?

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I’m having left flipper issues. The fuse will blow on first attempt to use it. I’ve traced the wire and can’t find any shorts. I’ve tested the transistor by grounding it with a wire and that acts the same as using the flipper button, blows the fuse. (I feel like a bad transistor wouldn’t blow a fuse, but I’m new at this.) The diode on the flipper coil looks normal. What should my readings be on the flipper coil? I’m getting 3.7 ohms on the right flipper coil, 1.6 on the left flipper coil, and I have a spare coil that reads 4.3. Is this my problem? These measurements are jibberish to me. Any info would be helpful, thanks.

I looked up the spec on that coil, should be around 3.4 ohms. 1.6 is very low. The coil has probably overheated at some point and melted some of the internal insulation. Too low ohms will cause a fuse to blow for sure. There's is just a 3amp fuse on the flipper circuits.

One part of my LOTR has bothered me since I've got the game a year ago: someone did a really ugly "fix" to the area around the flipperbuttons. This looks much better I think

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That looks super good! Mine was super worn, routed game, so I made these super cheap. Want to get some like yours in the future!

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Shame that these games were originally shipped without protection in those areas, but it's great that people have come up with cool ways to hide the wear.