Lyman is 100% Metallica right now. He still has some work to do on AC/DC as well. It won't be his "baby" like Metallica and AC/DC. Doesn't mean it won't be good, but many of us have more faith in Lyman games.

Again, Trekkie's dont care enough about the new movies to spend tons of money on the pinball. They prefer classic ST and would more likely want to spend money on a STTNG.

Sounds like you're trying to take a dig at my logic, but this goes for ANY game. No one can gauge WOZ's future value yet. WOZ's production has something to do with it...1000 LEs vs. 500 Stern LEs, and the fact that the Standard has all the same features as the LE. Code is unfinished and it's still in production. WOZ "after market" value won't be set in stone until years down the road.

I have no desire to gamble on a pinball machine, so I will wait to see what a game has to offer before I buy. I realize that this means no LEs for me, and I am OK with that. I imagine it will be around 18 months before I decide if I want a Star Trek. I just ordered an AC/DC Premium last week, because I am 100% confident that I want that game. I think I want Metallica, but I have no idea yet if I want the Pro or the Premium. Right now, I am thinking that the premium doesn't offer enough over the pro to make it worth the cost. That may well change in the next year, so I will wait to see. I own a STTNG, and I really like it, but I don't care for the other Star Trek pins out there. I am definitely not attached enough to the cast of the new movies to buy based on that.

I am hoping for a great pin, but I have to keep in mind that Ritchie designed Elvis, so he can miss.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the Elvis layout. In many ways it's the same as ACDC.-Ramp placement, orbits and spinner shot on left, left drop target bank, mode start hole in back, etc. are all similar. The difference in the two games is mostly due to software. If I had to choose between an Elvis with awesome Lyman software and ACDC with standard Lonnie Ropp software I'd pick Elvis every time I think Lyman is the true MVP at Stern right now, and I think Stern will do everything in their power to to attach his name to every upcoming title.

That's the thing...Lyman will be the guy working on every game according to Stern, even though he will be barely touching some of them. If I was him I'd be asking for a BIG raise.

Please, not fake voices, that would be real bad.

I hope they can at least get Simon Pegg since he's into geek-culture type stuff and might be into it ...and he's a funny guy. Custom Scottie voices from him, movie pulls for the rest seems reasonable...similar to Spidey & Avatar. Fingers crossed.

Bought an Avatar LE NIB, sold it for a 1500$ loss. Bought a LOTR LE NIB keeping it . To me pins are NOT primarily an investment. I just love them, although I am not a great player. I am still amazed that you can buy a pin, play it and still sell it for a decent price. If u want to make money invest it!! Not in pins. I admire even guys who try to pay the bills selling pins. Not the greatest margins in business. Glad to see my relatively new hobby is off life support, to me that is what all this LE market means. As a bonus u meet all kind of cool and not so cool people along the way, that I would have never met otherwise. It's only pinball!

Why would you say he is 100% Metallica right now, I would think he would be leading the ST release as the first priority and could get to Met later or at the same time.....

Good points Rob, but don't forget that there was not a premium version of Tron made. The value in Tron LE was only over the unique light show. When AC/DC LE came out we did not know what would/would not be on the premium game yet and everyone was pissed off over the cloudy playfield (I cancelled my game over it). Xmen LE's problems were one board which Stern took care of everyone on, and the original code totally sucked and is now being addressed. Granted no premium version for Xmen, but the new code is bringing the game up to what it should have been from day one. It will do well long term. I can't address Avengers because I just plain do not care for it. Never seen/played Met LE and hate the music so I'll just keep my trap shut on that one too. But again you are right....where did all that hype come from? These boards?
You are 100% correct in saying there is not guarantee on anything with these games. A lot of what happens later will depend on the pricing. At this time JJP is certainly giving more to the buyer for their money than Stern. I have a deposit on STLE but that could change as more info comes out and pricing is announced. Its possible that Hobbit could easily be worth waiting longer for if Stern tries to rape us on the STLE. I say that because if they raise the price on the premium I will be "out" on that too and just wait for a HUO game to show up later on.
Its gonna be interesting. First time in many years that Stern will be introducing a game at the same time competitor is putting good games out. They would be nuts to increase their prices with JJP being in full production mode now. And the internet did not exist in its current mode back when B/Wms were competing against them. Joe Blow did'nt know squat about what was coming out, what pricing would be, etc. It was all by word of mouth and only if you knew the right people. The home market back then was very limited too.
Lets hope sanity comes back to the hobby.

Metallica isn't close to being finished. It's his game, it's still in production, they want to sell more units - it's priority.

ST is not his game....keep thinking it is if you'd like. There are 3 or 4 other programmers at Stern. They're not waiting for Lyman. He may jump in but he's not leading it.

keep dreaming ice

What he said.........

If you don't go see the movie, you won't know if the voices are fake or not!

I'm just going to go off of what Ritchie says, not "dreaming", just what he says, you guys can believe what you want!

He wouldn't want to sell his game would he? What do you think the other guys are doing, working on Transformers?? LOL!

So Ritchie needs Lyman to sell his game.....I don't think so, no matter what happens, the code on every pin from Met on out is on Lyman, and Stern of course, he's the head coach, the wins and losses are on him......the "other guys" can work on Met

I don't care who's "coding" any pin, its Lyman's responsibility to make sure its what we, the consumer wants!

And if Ritchie wants Lyman on his game to whatever degree, he gets Lyman........

Hey Gary! Glad you finally decided to reveal your true identity to us after all this time.

Haha......yeah, Jar, the rest of the Gary's seem to be running things.....and if I was "Gary", I'd give Ritchie whatever he wants!

If I was Jack I'd offer to triple his salary if Gary didn't.......

He he he! Then make it so!

All I know is I've got a new NIN album to listen to. Life is great! Now if only "Gary" and Lyman would make me an NIN pin, all would be right with the world.

Dang Ice 2 new games with no programming on order : (

Only two?

Haha...yep, let's see ST, TH, and RAZA and of course I haven't received Woz yet...

NIN be IN SA IN November...

I might be onto something though, Jack needs to swipe SR away from Gary, I think he's a free agent and the salary cap just went up!

I saw that. Hmmm... Road trip!

I wonder if my Star trek Le will come with Len Flares.

I don't see how it couldn't. JJ can't get enough of those damn things.

i was hoping you were getting 5 stle machines as you joked about when the metle debacle unwound

I did Vex, gonna have a blue light special as soon as its announced, $2,000 below Teekee's price, no matter what it is!

Im buying LE's till I am straight up bankrupt, Truth.

jack.jpg

A few x factors that were present for METLE (kick-ass original Dirty Donny art creating uber-hype, and the Metallica fan club reserve that Stern seemed to not take into account when initially confirming distributors orders, causing them to recant on said confirmed orders that resulted in many people's orders being cancelled) are not factors w/ ST LE (presumably at least). There will always be speculators that will look to cash in on flipping LEs. Pricing is hitting a ceiling IMO though (METLE is my last LE NIB) and orders WILL drop-off if they continue to rise.

my $.02

Todd

Actually you could have stopped right there. There is no "but"!

Couldn't agree more. The *only* reason that I'm very likely in on a ST pre-order (when I said I was done doing that) is because it's a Ritchie design. A design that he has been working on for quite some time. We know that SR always fights to get what he wants on his pins too, and his designs always shoot smoother/better than the other designers that you mention (no knock against them, because they have also designed two of my all time favorite pins).

Steve could create a great game and it still could decline in value, as most things do. See WPT, 24, Elvis and T3.

Ok I am biased, I own now three games, AC/DC LE, MetLE and WOZ. But it's the first time in my personal pinball history that I am satisfyied with the games I have.
Before, I always had the feeling that this or that game has to go and I always want to keep only three games, if a new one comes an old had to go. But with the three I have now, I am just waiting for new code, and I know they are keepers. I am already starting to plan renovations for my home so I could add more games. The three games limit is broken!

There is no game in the Top 100 that I would trade any of these three with, no MM, no TZ, no MB....
I miss my SM but the three I won now, if code updates are comming, will be better games.
And that's why I am very happy with my LEs. They look awesome and are my personal top games.
It doesn't matters for me if they won't hold their value. I don't plan to sell them. I think LEs are for people that love the theme or the game and want to have the best posssible version to get. I had played the Pros but sry, sometimes they are the better value for the money, but if all would cost the same everybody would pick the LE before the Pro. And if you realy love the theme, the LEs are a must have.
If Stern or JJP try to make good games, with complete code and if they pick the right themes I don't think that the "LE buying train has left the station".
Star Trek, The Hobbit, Star Wars, Walking Dead, The Muppets, The Beatles, Harry Potter, Mad Max........
There are alot of themes that people would like to have in the LE version. I don't have enough money and room, but I know I will get a The Hobbit LE, the others I have to see and play before I would buy one, so I don't now if I could get a LE version. But with AC/DC and Metallica I have 2 (for me) dream themes, I ordered unseen. WOZ, I didn't liked the theme, but I had faith in the JJP team. All three are already great pins so I am very happy that I could get them.

In France (i suppose in the other European countries it was the same) the METLE NIB price was around 8 250 Euros ($11K ) .

All the units have been sold in a few days. If in Europe we can pay this price i have no doubt in US you could it too, only of course if the game rocks and i think it's the real point.

I will buy LE NIB again if I love the theme. Luckily for my wallet Metallica is just an "ok" theme for me. Star Trek would normally be a no brainer but I already have ST:TNG, so not really needing two Star Trek themed machines in my small collection.

The price going down for unpopular LEs (X-men, Avengers) doesn't really bother me too much. Yes, if I had a crystal ball I wouldn't have pre-ordered and paid the initial prices, but hindsight is always 20/20. What would really bother me is having the opposite happen, ie: not buying an LE that I really wanted, guessing the price would go down, and instead it being a hit and the price going through the roof pricing me out of the game.

I suppose it helps that I don't look at my pins as a way to make money, and I don't change out my collection very often. I buy what I like, play when I can and let the rest take care of itself.

LOL you crack me up ice. Still adamant that Lyman is the lead programer for ST. It's pretty clear given all the information on hand that this will be a team effort. Here's how I see ice when told Lyman won't be the lead and only programer on ST.

Icecanthearyou.jpg

Pretty much sums it up right there: If the price goes down, but you still have a limtied production game with a theme that you like/enjoy. If the game is a hit (TRON LE, ACDC BIB) and the price doubles, you are priced out of a LE and have to settle for a unlimited and less attractive premium or pro.

Maybe I missed it on this forum, but is it true that Stern hired a marketing guy that used to work for Topps? Makes a lot of sense to me the way their marketing has evolved. If this is common knowledge, please forgive me for wasting your time. Just have not seen it talked about here.

That explains why there was a stick of gum in my new Tron Pro.

Im pretty sure that's true. But from what I recall, the LE stuff was going on well before they hired him. I might be wrong though, if I get a chance I will see if I can search it out. Unless someone else remembers off the top of their head.

Im pretty sure that's true. But from what I recall, the LE stuff was going on well before they hired him. I might be wrong though, if I get a chance I will see if I can search it out. Unless someone else remembers off the top of their head.

I thought Stern went with Zalinsky?

zalinsky.jpg

the le's will never go away, as others have stated here. as long as suckers exist so shall the le's.

for better or worse they are here to stay

Come on Dude!.......its all about the team effort, Lyman is my head coach and he better be delegating properly and benching the dudes that ain't doing it right......

Copy of A copy of A

Shadow of A Shadow of A Shadow of A Shadow

Well, you I see the connection in Topp's baseball cards & Pinballs.
I mean $3.00 for a pack of cards with a stick of gum and a $8,000 pinball mixes well. RIGHT?
Also, we all know it will be $10,000 by Christmas....
Can't believe that I just said that.

Well,
It's easy for stern to continue to sell out all the LE's at a breath-taking clip....
Just install a 128X32 LED monitor into all LE's, and include unique backglass, custom powder-coated trim, unique toys,.........enuff said.
All other machines get the orange DMD...

Have you ever walked into a McDonalds, looked at the big glossy picture of a perfect Big Mac, and received something that resembles none of the above? Thats my last 4-5 Stern LE pre-order experiences.... In all cases you still get to "eat it"....

McDonalds-BigMac-1.jpg

ST LE: 4 cannons!!
ST pro: 2 cannons!