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I love everything about EV's - but don't yet own one and don't pretend I would be saving the environment.
If the US would start building some modern Nuclear plants we can increase our clean energy production.
I like wind and solar, but don't think it's going to get us where we need to be.
That said .... would love to have a Rivian in my garage
Quoted from Scorch:But here's the environmental bad about EV's. They are HEAVY... which means extra wear on roads/tires etc.
the batteries alone in the Hummer EV weight almost 3,000 lbs
the whole truck is over 9,000 lbs
Quoted from DarthPaul:The U.S. was energy independent, then our government changed that.
come on man...
Quoted from Jaybird815:I maybe should put this in the unpopular thread but the Mustang EV is a much nicer vehicle than the model X
At the very least - it's screwed and glued together much better.
I really like Tesla a lot, but they need to up their quality if they will continue to compete against the new EV's coming to market.
Amazing the lack of quality Tesla gives you in a $100k+ vehicle
Funny discussion. Stopping at a gas station is not the issue EV owners make it out to be and it's also very nice everyday to wake up to an EV with a "full tank" and not have to think twice. Just about everybody in this discussion is right on some level with their arguments. I don't have a side at all. I love EVs and want to own one but I do not at the moment and can see why others are resisting change. I understand both sides of the debate and appreciate both point of views.
Quoted from Pickle:….cut out unnecessary spending and there is plenty of money for road maintenance.
LOL - good luck with that
Quoted from Reality_Studio:Yeah, this was the most annoying aspect of owning a gas car. Very common for me was being late for a video shoot, loading the car, firing it up and seeing I need gas. Then I'd have to haul ass to a gas station, hope there's no wait, fill up and head to the shoot. Your mileage may vary, but for me that was a very regular and extremely annoying occurrence. Now the only time I stop at a gas station is to buy a Kit Kat.
That's a little over dramatic
Quoted from bob_e:The cost of the cars are real, the return on my Fidelity Mutual funds were over 9% the last five years.
In the last 4 months, a car is a better investment than putting money in the market
Quoted from bob_e:My neighbors friend was offered 30K not to take delivery on his new Ferrari ( last of the V-12 to be made).
yeah well, my neighbor's friend's cousin's sister's boy frend's baby momma's father was ...... oh nevermind
Quoted from bob_e:So the tezla will stop in the middle of the road if the driver, dies or falls a sleep. wow.
what does a Terrain do ?
Quoted from bob_e:So the tezla will stop in the middle of the road if the driver, dies or falls a sleep. wow.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:what does a Terrain do ?
Quoted from bob_e:exactly what I tell it to. 8700 miles of event free driving.
after you die or fall a sleep?
that's an impressive piece of technology
but we get it, GMC Terrain is the best thing on 4 wheels
you don't need to keep convincing us - we understand
Tesla Bad
EV Bad
Terrain superior
Quoted from TheLaw:You left out Teslas are dumb becasue 0-60 time & top speeds are usless but Corvettes are awesome with the same stats.
amazing the amount of effort some people put in to convince a bunch of people they don't know that their view is the right one
Quoted from razorsedge:Geez look at the fuel prices!. How did that happen!?
Gotta have an "EV" then ... ?
Or, all they'd have to do is undo the backwards PC "green new deal" nonsense, and start producing the barrels again...
Voila! ... no need for EVs anymore!?
Of course there will always be a portion of folk whom won't get it until the blaring blatant obvious is thrown on their windscreen or whatever. Point will come whatever way, they'll have no choice but to work it all out.
I wouldn't own a "commercial" EV. That s#it BURNS. To the ground, and things surrounding. Fast! :3Nobody ever gonna get me into any of that cr@p! . Might be useful for a deathwish, or to cook a barbie?. ha ha
Stupid argument, all cars can catch on fire
Last week on the way home from work, I stopped to help a lady and her 2 kids whose ICE car was on fire. It exploded several times and was a total loss
This is the actual picture of the car
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from razorsedge:Omg Please!? Lol
Wake Up!!!
Only in hollywood for some, hey.
Why not have a propper look into the real state of the world before the loose and clearly uninformed comments. Would have thought that even with blinkers on, the obvious problems would be noticable when right in front of the eyes. Look up and live! :3
Can you come up with an argument that makes sense please?. Plastic and masses of chemical concoctions burn way better than mostly metal and some fuel. Also way more toxic with the batteries. Try to have a little logic and some brains in gear for posting. Avoid the emotion Lol
Yep cognative dissonance is a bugger. Wish anyone with it all the best. Friends can help, but really it is up to themselves to reliably process what is going on. It realy is not a fine line between "skepticism" and "denial".
Watch Scooby Doos "Zombie Island" for a great lesson in this!. Might help wake up.
Peace brothers!
I really have no dog in this fight, I just like cars - both ICE & EV BUT You are 100% wrong - get off your soap box
I witnessed this gas car go up very quickly and explode several times.
Fire dept. had a very difficult time extinguishing the fire, every time they got it out it reignited
pasted_image (resized).png
Quoted from razorsedge:Whenever someone describes a person as "100% wrong", it's a fair indication that someone is actually being extreme and a bit unbalanced, in any case. Incredible.
I guess some people display excessive sensitivity towards their touchy subjects, sometimes. Or when there's cognitive dissonance at play?. :3
Anyway, if this isn't a "soapbox" these days, then what is?
And when someone tries to counter your factual argument by changing the direction of the conversation, it's usually because they are 100% wrong
Quoted from Ribs:The US could have a state-owned oil company that could be ordered to invest in output rather than stock buybacks, dividends, and debt retirement, many countries do this, but reasonable ideas like this have been demonized as end-of-the-world socialism and communism by the very same people who benefit the most from ensuring short-term corporate profits at the cost of essential societal services. We should finally stop listening to those individuals about everything instead of voting for them more than ever.
Yeah, becuase the government is great at running things ..... 
Quoted from bob_e:Can you turn the automatic braking off? Or are you left to the mercy of your car and neglect of Tezla?
Is it some sort of inside joke or attempt at a put down by constantly call it Tezla
please enlighten me
Quoted from bob_e:The weird part is the tezla had two price increases in two days and that is acceptable...
Who is deeming it acceptable?
I mean, you can bitch and moan but that's worthless. I don't know if it's acceptable but these are the times we are in.
tezla has always been fluid on their prices and other car mfgs have had to follow suit in the last 12 months raising their prices mid-year
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:I already get tired of coming home and having to remember to charge my phone.
If I also had to take time to remember to charge the EV that is even a few more minutes that I can not relax and drink some beer.
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from vikeking27:The main concern I have with EVs and high technology gasoline powered vehicles is the slow move toward not owning your vehicle. Eventually the technology will get to the point where we have to subscribe to several services just to be able to drive the car we bought, if it doesn’t end up going as far as having to subscribe to being able to use the car itself. It might seem far off, but it’s probably closer than we think - EVs help contribute to this progression because they can start with a fresh ‘platform’ and don’t have to follow the existing models we are used to for purchasing, driving, refueling, and maintenance.
So 20 years from now you’ll be paying $500 a month for some ‘car as a service’ which only lets you listen to music if you pay for Spotify premium, and won’t let you charge it anywhere except designated energy providers which you also need an account with (and likely another monthly fee), and you can’t even start it without logging into your Facebook account, and the uplink is always on tracking your every move and putting ads for hamburgers up on the heads up display as you drive by McDonald’s.
Start thinking about the implications there and it’s a pretty gnarly rabbit hole (battery and software upgrade fees/subscriptions, the DMV remotely disabling your vehicle for being late paying for your sticker, insurance spying on how fast you’re driving or what areas you drive in and raising your rates, etc.).
I’m going to keep buying the low tech gas guzzlers to try and push that out to 30 years.
Sorry, it's not just EV's - that can be applied to all cars
https://www.thedrive.com/tech/43636/toyota-reviewing-key-fob-remote-start-subscription-plan-after-massive-blowback
Quoted from unclerudy:Electric planes will just not work.
ok .... but .....
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200617-the-largest-electric-plane-ever-to-fly
it's a start. but battery tech does need to evolve .. and I have no doubts it will
pasted_image (resized).pngyes, there is some inherent risk with charging a massive lithium ion battery in your garage, but accidents like this are very rare
same thing can happen with your laptop on a smaller scale
Quoted from GranpaDave:I want a gas powered pinball machine.
Just hook yours up to on of these, and voila
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from zaphX:It's pretty disingenuous to cry bloody murder about cobalt in EV batteries while ignoring that it's in your phone, computer, tablet, etc.
Tesla announced in September 2020 they are developing cobalt-free batteries.
https://fresh-energy.org/whats-up-with-the-cobalt-used-in-ev-batteries
VW Auto Group is also working on cobalt-free batteries and in the interim they are monitoring their supply chain.
https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/group/the-a-to-z-of-e-mobility/c-is-for-kobalt.html#
Everybody picks their battles and then searches for info to support it
Up to 1,000 mile range
Recharge via Solar up to 40 miles a day
Starts at $26,000
https://aptera.us/
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from MrBally:Will a new Stern pinball machine fit inside?
possibly
the hatch area is huge
pasted_image (resized).png
Quoted from pinballizfun:will a person?
yup
Quoted from bob_e:So do they have production facilities ???
These guys are legit, Sandy Munro is an investor and he knows a thing or 2 about automobile production.
As far as safety, from their website:
The body is built with ultra-lightweight composites and its arched shape mimics the physics of an eggshell — that protects you and your loved ones with a safety cell that's seven times stronger than steel.
Should be fairly safe but would have to see crash test ratings to back up their claims
Quoted from RyanStl:He could do that a lot cheaper by simply buying the maker of the icecream machine makers that have a weird relationship with McD's corporate where they make all their money on service calls because they designed the machines to not work. Wow, great run on sentence.
you do realize that was not a real musk tweet, somebody mocked it up
Quoted from bob_e:RANGE: just under 81 miles WOOPEE
Note that it is 85 miles door to door to visit my step son in Toledo
80 miles is more than most people drive in a day
so charge over night and ready to go in the morning.
If you need more range, lots of EVs go 300 +
Quoted from Jaybird815:This exactly, I don’t understand the hate for someone’s preference and needs on either side. I just bought an ICE because currently an EV doesn’t suit my needs. That certainly could change in the future though. I definitely have no resentment for someone driving anything they want.
For some reason I can't figure out, some people are threatened by thinking that is different from their present mindset
Quoted from zaphX:Disagree, I hate people.
Agree, would rather drive myself and pay ridiculous amounts of money for parking than take public trans
Quoted from zaphX:As a software guy...no fucking way.
As one example: I saw a video of a "full self driving" Tesla utterly confused because a box truck had a picture of a stop sign on it.
The edge cases like this are limitless. People will die.
Yes, but people already die daily in auto accidents becuase many drivers are distracted, unskilled, and just plain idiots
The argument is, yes people will still die with self driving cars, but how does that compare to distracted idiots driving....
I am not sure, but the odds seem better
Quoted from Davidus56:Big auto is not conspiring against EV. Its just that they have enough intelligence to realize it is a fad.
So why are VW, GM, & Ford investing billions in future EV production if they realize it's a fad?
Quoted from zaphX:As much as I like Tesla's products, and as much credit as I give him for moving EV adoption to the mainstream...I won't buy another Tesla, and it's 100% because of him.
I really couldn't care less about CEO's views of the products I purchase,
what keeps me from a Tesla is basic quality issues people are still complaining about
Really leaning towards a Rivian
rivian (resized).pngGet an F150 Lightning and you can run your house off of it if you lose electricity - better than a home generator
https://newatlas.com/automotive/ford-f-150-lightning-power-home-outage
Quoted from bob_e:I have a 16Kw generator, It will run my whole house: Heat-A/C, Well Pump, Kitchen appliances, lights, yes everything!
For me power outages can be for a few hours to several days. Fridge and deep freezer are big consumers, no running power cords thru the house
I'm sure it can supply power for the Lights, TV, internet, and aquariums.. does it provide 220v and for how long?
of course it does, you live in one of these 
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from Aurich:I mean, you'd kinda have to not be paying attention at all for the last couple years to not realize he's not the genius Tesla superfans love to paint him as. Most CEOs don't open their mouths to tell you what they think because they're smart enough to stay quiet and stack their money. He shows his ass on the regular because he's having a mid life crisis and can't just buy a Porsche to get it over with.
He was born rich, had enough money that people never said no to his ideas, and used that money to hire a bunch of people smarter than him make them work. Then he spends his days getting into fights on Twitter.
yup ... takes real stupid person to create multiple companies and amass billions
The real truth is, you don't agree with what he says so he is labeled stupid and you make excuses for his success.
Nobody is perfect, he is still human and will still fail and say stupid shit ... we all do ... be he is way far from stupid
Quoted from jeffro01:You can be lucky and stupid at the same time...
Jeff
Like him or not, it took a lot more than luck and seed money to accomplish what he has and be where he is at
Quoted from fosaisu:As you say it's not an immediate problem, but it will eventually become one. I would guess most states will eventually go to a personal property/ownership tax of some kind on the vehicle itself (you pay a small % of the vehicle's estimated value each year as an annual tax, diminishes as the vehicle gets older). Colorado and some other states already do this, so it's workable. Alternately they could come up with some kind of monitoring system based on how much electricity you use charging your EV (which would roughly correlate to how much you're using it on the roads, the way a gas tax does) but that seems like a hassle to administer and people don't like visible signs that the government is tracking their behavior. So I'm guessing most states will go the ownership tax route.
they will need to figure out something, the avg. EV is heavier then it's ICE counterpart and causes more wear and tear on roads
Quoted from jeffro01:I have done work at the Tesla Fremont factory and I can assure you EVERYONE is terrified of the guy
wow, how long did it take for you to survey EVERYONE?
Quoted from cait001:who wants to talk about Ebikes again? Man, ebikes are kind of awesome.
they are
Quoted from jeffro01:Really? LOL... Well when every employee you work with has their own "avoid Elon" story I'd say that's probably not a good sign. My own interactions with the guy affirmed what I was told but hey, I'm sure the kool-aid tastes rather nice.
Jeff
well, he does have Asperger's syndrome which may make communication and relations with others difficult for him
also, not a fan of kool-aid as it's mostly sugar
Quoted from zaphX:Hehe, wow. Now you're *really* reaching deep for FUD talking points.
Susan's been plugging and unplugging her Tesla charger for 4 years. No issues.
Mine has been a year so far, also no issues. The connector is pretty robust and so is the cable.
The J-1772 connector is designed for longevity, ease of use, pluggability in the rain, etc. It's heavy duty plastic. I took you some photos.
*IF* it were to fail it's covered under the car's warranty. The entire setup plugs into a wall holder and the NEMA 14-50 wall outlet - can be replaced in seconds.You got me curious so I checked the last bill (April, don't have May yet).
Customer charge $10.00
On-peak energy charge $48.70
Off-peak energy charge $161.56
Sales Tax $4.58
Municipal Franchise Fee $8.81
Operation Roundup (??) $0.91
TOTAL $234.56[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Screw the plug shots ... let's see some pictures of the car!
Quoted from MtnFrost:Still with the childish name calling and lack of facts. That’s all you have. Ignorance, willful, is not a good look.
The world is suffering from high gas prices due to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and you can’t understand the market forces at play.
Gas prices were on a steady rise before the invasion ... there are other factors at play that you are ignoring
Quoted from MtnFrost:And then have been mentioned here - the depressed cost of gas during Covid meant that there would be a rise in prices as more drivers came back on the road. That's it. But tell us more if you think there's more?
yes, they contributed but there is more than that and unless we address the other reasons that some refuse to acknowledge, the price is not coming down
Quoted from zaphX:I don't know about you guys but aside from a few obvious demand dips (2008 recession, 2020 lockdown) I can't read any patterns here.
What made it drop 2012-2016?
Increase in Shale and fracking oil production ... possibly
Quoted from mcluvin:I've read the ride kinda sucks though. This is what kills me, $30K gets you in the door, but $40K gets you so much more in terms of other models. A Lightning Pro is ~$42K. Good luck finding one, but so much more utility / bang for your buck.
I test drove one of the early models when it first came out and liked it a lot
Quoted from mcluvin:Did you take it over rough roads, potholes, or train tracks? I mostly like it, but that is a concern I read.
no, local streets and highway.
It's a smaller car with a small wheelbase and that effects the ride
Quoted from bob_e:cheap on "fuel" costs but what about operational costs.?
a quick look on a lease for a toucan: $1,149 per month for 36 months with $10,919 due at signing.
I could not get exact details on how many miles per year but for shits and giggles lets say 12,000 or 1,000 per month...
that is $1.149 per mile + $.303 (due at signing) = $1.452 per mile
seems zaphX is in a different tax bracket than you are
Much more reasonable to look at the price of a car as a percentage of your yearly income - then it becomes all relative
Quoted from bob_e:The Gift that keeps on giving...The shorted battery pack keeps generating heat and gasses. Thermal runaway heat will ignite the gas until there is nothing left to burn. A mini Chernobyl, but not as deadly.
4500 gallons of water needed to put out the fire...in a state the has/had water use restrictions, not good
Kias and Hyundais continue to burn after 5.8 million cars and SUVs recalled
Quoted from MtnFrost:Usage based taxes for things like yacht slipways, sure.
So just tax the "rich" cause its worked out so well in the past. Just do some research on yacht luxury taxes in the 80's
Quoted from zaphX:Nope! Nor do I care. Not why I bought it. I wanted the instant power/torque and lower cost to run.
That's the attraction to EVs for me also - smooth ride, power/torque, way less maintenance
Quoted from mrm_4:I park in them with my gas guzzler Silverado, its hilarious. No one ever says anything, accept one lady was like "Hey I think thats for electric cars..." but I said "my truck identifies as a Chevy Volt so its ok" and went into the grocery store. I thought she might go full Karen on me but she just slammed her van door and left.
So much crap going on in this world - why be one of those jerks that adds to it. I just don't understand people that do shit like this. Does it make you feel morally superior or do you just enjoy being an asshole. Is it really that difficult to be nice and respectful to others?
Quoted from mrm_4:That’s exactly how I park! That’s awesome that there’s a random pic showing it!
I love how EV parking is just as import as handicap parking now. What a slap to those with legit disabilities.
I also like how you say “he” as if I can’t see your response or like you can’t just flat out ask me the question yourself.
But to answer your question if I drove by a gas station and saw a flock of beta males with their man buns and boy purses all parking their EVs in front of gas pumps I’d probably just take a picture and post it on here and say something like “damn these dudes have some balls huh?”
I agree with you on handicap parking - but why don't you block those spots too while you are at it. People like you are why humans get a bad reputation.
And not only are you acting like an douche bag, you are bragging about how much of a dick you are.
Hopefully you are just trolling and IRL you are a different person.
Quoted from mrm_4:Secondly people are making blocking designated EV parking spaces synonymous with blocking every single persons parking space on the whole planet.
These are not "EV parking spaces" they are charging stations. It's not like if they are blocked they can "park" in a different spot and achieve the same result with some more effort. Lots of these charging stations are at the back end of parking lots, so they are hardly VIP.
It's just an asshole douche move going out of your way to intentionally fuck up someone's day.
I guess you think keying an EV is also fair game.
How does what other people do with their life that has no effect on yours upset you so much?
Quoted from Pickle:That’s the whole problem is this entitlement mentality that people get rubbed the wrong way with EV owners. ....
Can you guys also lighten up and did you stop to think maybe mrm_4 might have been jacking with you guys and stir the pot and have some fun with ya…life is too short to take this so serious.
Plenty of pickup truck owners drive around like they are entitled also
and I did comment that I hoped mrm_4 was just trolling us and is actually not like this IRL - but plenty of people are
Quoted from flynnibus:Then it would be on the property owner who setup those parking spaces to police them... not randos who think they should be making a statement about EV drivers.
100% - not everything everybody does in this world will be to your liking or get your support
BUT - if it's not interfering and effecting your life or infringing on your rights ... just let them be
Park somewhere else and walk .... you could probably use the exercise
The world would be/could be a better place with more mutual respect and decency
Quoted from mrm_4:I love how absolute bonkers people are getting over a parking spot. Oh im sorry "charging station"
It's not an issue over a parking space, it's the intentional douche bag asshole move to just fuck up someone else's day - PEROID - you are just being a complete dick because it gets you off. And, though I have replied a lot, it's really not driving me bonkers as I am already well aware that the world is full of pricks like you.
Quoted from mrm_4:I didn’t realize that putting something like this outside of an EV would kill the battery within a mile.
You guys are right the massive amount of drag this thing would give is enough to destroy the car entirely.
[quoted image]
Guess you slept through science class
If you can comprehend this, here is the technical explanation
--------------------------
The concept you’re describing cannot work because it represents a form of perpetual motion, violating the laws of thermodynamics.
The energy recovered by the wind turbines on the car will always be less than the energy expended to make the car move in order to create the airflow through those turbines. That’s why engineers work to design cars to minimize the drag forces from wind at causing speeds in the first place.
For your idea to work, it would be necessary to have a car which would continue to accelerate on its own even if its engine were shut off, thereby requiring the use of your wind turbines or other such device to continuously remove energy.
The only time we see anything even resembling this behavior in our universe is when something is moving from a high potential energy state to a lower one (creating kinetic energy in the process). An example of this would be when going downhill.
Unfortunately, this is always a one-way ride, and once the potential energy is used up, the ride is over, and energy from some outside source must be obtained to reset the system by pushing it back up the hill, so to speak, or raising the potential energy once again.
Quoted from mrm_4:Thats not what Im proposing, im just simply saying that this would charge a battery. Its really simple if you guys would actually read what ive been saying.
putting this on you car would charge a separate battery, been saying it since the first suggestion. Nothing more, nothing less. You guys are the ones saying that im suggesting that energy from the battery would power the car at the same time while driving the car at the same time while charge itself at the same time. Which this is now like the 4th time maybe that I have said its impossible for that scenario to work.
.
And now I assume you are just trolling, no human can be this stupid.
Quoted from mrm_4:I suck at drawing… and everything else for that matter.
But this is what I’m saying. It’s completely separate from the battery being used to set the motion.
If it take you 3 full charges of driving around like normal to get a fully charged emergency battery for back up, why would someone not implement this?
[quoted image]
The turbines are spinning from the air being pushed on to them from driving. The solar panels are constantly charging from UV. None of this is in anyway impacting the performance of the main battery.
It's irrelevant if the turbine/windmill is charging the run battery or an extra storage battery - it still violating the laws of thermodynamics.
The energy recovered by the wind turbines on the car will always be less than the energy expended to make the car move in order to create the airflow through those turbines - regardless of the battery it's charging.
This would work in a breaking situation where you want to slow the car down and are not using the battery to power and move the care but regenerative braking already accomplishes this without anymore drag while the car is moving under power.
Quoted from mrm_4:How would it drain the battery? Instead of the air up front being forced to move around the car it would just go straight through a turbine.
science/physics - also if this would really work, don't you think the electrical engineers and scientists at major auto companies would have though of this
Quoted from mrm_4:It’s not SOLVING AN ENERGY PROBLEM it charging a separate smaller battery as a byproduct of just driving around. Now because you just drove around for a week doing your normal thing you now have a charged up emergency battery just hanging out in your trunk. As compared to … nothing
the charge going back to main battery or a separate spare battery makes zero difference. The are both batteries in the car
Quoted from mrm_4:It makes a huge difference one way your find yourself in a continuous loop which would be perpetual motion the other way is stored power completely separate from the power being used to drive the car.
Nope, same thing in your design
Quoted from mrm_4:nope completely in the design
Turbines are still creating more drag on car than energy produced going to spare battery -
So main battery would drain faster than spare stores generated electricity.
Net effect would be less range than just having 1 battery with no turbines
Quoted from mrm_4:see the issue that you guys wont let go is thinking that the power from driving is going to somehow equal the power coming in and you can somehow use the power coming in as an instance instant output and im not saying that at all.
Whats funny is you guys are going to realize what im saying and you'll go "oh shit i see what he means, ok thats actually pretty genius" but itll be your dark little secret, i wont tell anyone.
maybe call Elon, I am sure he would buy your idea as his engineers and scientists have not figured this out
Quoted from mrm_4:Whats his phone number?
426-164-3468
he's waiting for you rcall and ready to fire all his scientists and engineers that couldn't figure this out
Quoted from fosaisu:Street parking is surprisingly safe in many parts of most major cities. Bigger problem than car theft is usually vagrants smashing a window to find out what’s in your glovebox.
I heard it's gotten so bad in San Francisco, people leave their cars empty and windows down
Quoted from Ribs:Pollution from combustion is objectively bad and the people who have to carry its largest burdens do not get a personal choice in the matter. That's why we aren't dealing with the difference between CDs and LPs.
You also want consumers to play against a stacked deck. Get rid of the subsidies that fossil fuels never deserved and then let the consumer choose.
there also subsidies for the EV industry and buyers of their products
Quoted from paynemic:I’m only seeing half of this conversation (hint hint) but the above is 100% true. No question. Because, science.
yeah, me to ... getting a lot of
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from fosaisu:I never really got Pinside's "don't post about ignores" policy, but this thread is getting a little tedious with all of the posts about ignores ...
ignore us
Quoted from zaphX:I think EV. Once you get sucked into the power and torque of the electric motor, coupled with the simpler design and lack of service...there's no going back.
100% this regardless of the environmental benefit, that's the reason my next car will be an EV
Quoted from bob_e:Porsche 918 hybrid can go 18 miles on electric power... Cost a LOT of money... But it goes really really FAST
Love that Car!
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from bob_e:MSRP was $815,000 option home charger $85K as I recall
current price at auction 1.6 million
that's nothing for rich guys bringing in 100 mil a year +
Quoted from bob_e:OH its OK that your EV has 100 to 1000 times the amount of lithium than the average person, without an EV, has in their laptops, phones, and Energizer batteries. Talk about a hipposhit.. GO GREEN.!
And oil comes out of the ground, refines, and burns with no environmental impact?
I really want to transition to an EV. Keep looking at the Rivian, but it's just such a long wait and they are a new manufacturer with no long-term track record track record. Maybe an EV motorcycle in the meantime
Quoted from zaphX: I’m talking about the collision avoidance stuff that warns you with an alert if you’re about to rear end someone.
So, it doesn't work that great?
Quoted from zaphX:I have some data points on this!
We've had three body shop events w/ Susan's Model 3.
The first, she backed into a car and the rear bumper needed replacement. It was a same-day swap by Tesla with a factory painted part around $800.
Then she hit some kind of debris in the road and messed up the front bumper...a sensor was dangling and everything.
That one was also a same-day swap with a factory painted part, but was astonishingly only $150.
They misquoted the estimate and insisted on honoring it anyway, which was amazing and unexpected.
Lastly she backed into the garage door and caused minor paint damage to the trunk lid and rear bumper. Again I tried for the same-day repair service but they said they couldn't do it for the trunk lid...so that one went to a trusted body shop for a traditional body shop repair. It was in the shop 3 or 4 days and cost $1500.
Quoted from Fytr:I suspect part of the blame is the lack of a lidar sensor on the car, and Musk's unclipped ego refusing to adopt anything beyond cameras for the system.
My guess it has a lot to do with costs
Tesla seems to try and get by with as few parts as possible
Quoted from PanzerFreak:I recently had a chance to sit in a cousins Model 3, what a cramped vehicle for around $50k.
Is there supposed to be a positive correlation between roominess and cost?
Don't tell that to the Porsche guys
Current Motor Trend future car issue is about 90%+ Electric.
You can hate them as much as you want but manufacturers are switching over.
My guess is it's more about $$ than caring about the environment.
Seems a MFG. can build just about their entire EV line up off of a 1 EV skateboard platform
I am excited for the EV future
For those that are not, there is the F150 Raptor R 
Quoted from zaphX:There are uneducated morons everywhere.
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from zaphX:I'm not an EV hater, we're a 2 EV family.
I'm just very, very skeptical about FSD.
I agree with your past post that the real issue is what Tesla is calling it.
Should be called something like Full Driver Assist
Quoted from bob_e:I took less than 3 minutes to fill up my car, it said I had 505 miles range and it has awd.. The computer based that upon the last time I reset the trip odometer, I think, and the average was 32.4 mpg. About twice that of "long range awd" EVs. So I lack the blistering off the line performance big deal, at least it won't need a set of tires until 60K miles have past by.
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from mcluvin:This is a real thing with lots of folks bitching about it on Tesla forums. I read a post where a Tesla owner's buddy (who owns a suspension shop) fixed his with some sort of adjustable suspension part.
I rarely get full warrantied miles out of a set of tires on my ICE vehicles. It's important to rotate regularly and use a good shop that will get you a warranty credit on a new set of tires (as long as they have worn evenly).
BEV's are generally much heavier than their ICE counterparts and will wear out tires much faster.
Quoted from bob_e:I wonder what the tire life on a Porsche Toucan is.....
I know the owners of such cars need to prove the blistering acceleration at every opportunity (man card renewal?)
yeah, because mustang, Camaro and corvette owners never do
Quoted from bob_e:at current sams club gas price $3.99 and current gas mileage 32.4 works out to .12 a mile then add .01 for oil changes
bravo, you win
Quoted from paynemic:I love reading these well thought out answers to an ignored user’s (likely ridiculous) questions! Haha. I get to imagine the silliness in the original question and it makes me smile.
LOL - I though I was the only one
Quoted from jeffro01:I HIGHLY doubt that. Your points have been refuted multiple times but you keep coming back to them so I just don't see any counter argument that's going to shut you up. You don't want to come to a consensus, you want to be right because you "know" you're right and that's just not going to change. Welcome to the internet...
Jeff
If only Pinside had a solution ....... 
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from UnnDunn:It's so weird not having to schlep over to a gas station twice a week. I still have tons of points on my ExxonMobil rewards account that I need to spend, but I have zero reason to go to an ExxonMobil gas station.
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from flynnibus:nukes will continue to be slow, expensive, and not politically viable until there is some revolution with recycling or waste handling. The green shift isn't going to tackle those issue - so short of some new cycle... it's politically dead.
The problem with most fossil fuels is again with the full cycle. Be it talk of fracking, mine safety, or 'NIMBY' - they too will continue to be a struggle to push for up front.
One angle that could help more is more co-ops and interchanges to help get capacity to where the load is. Efficiencies there can in theory help share burdens and improve robustness (so shitshows like Texas can be avoided).
I do wonder if disruptors will maybe try to enter the space...
We need the Aliens to bestow us with a Zero Point energy generator - that would be a game changer
Quoted from UnnDunn:lol, there is no way in hell you are averaging 34mpg in a 2021 GMC Terrain AWD. That car is rated for 26mpg combined by the EPA. So now I know you’re lying about all the other stuff as well.
He drives downhill to work and back home
Quoted from bob_e:And EVs STILL have the range and recharge disadvantage. or add lots of weight to get the range up there, if that option is available.
For long trips yes
But not everyday driving
Does your Turdrain fill itself up every night so you have a full tank in the morning?
For regular around town driving for the majority of people - overnight charging will satisfy their daily driving habits and they will rarely have to charge during the day
I know plenty of EV owners that have only ever charged at home and their daily driving habits only use a small percentage of the available range.
Quoted from bob_e:Don't you mean down grade ???
Does not have AWD? NOPE! not even an option. A feature that is good for the winter season here in Michigan.
SMALL cargo space: 19 cubic feet behind the rear seat & 48.5 seat folded down. vs 29.6 and 65.3 cubic feet.
Can you put a pinball machine in your Kona?
So All I get is acceleration from 0 to 60... that is all I hear from Musketeers, and on that point they are correct.
I have not found comparable data yet on 50-75 or 80 mph (freeway on ramps)
KONA may not have AWD but several EV Pickups & SUVs do and the systems can be far superior to what you find on ICE since all 4 wheels can be controlled independently with precession - can the Turdrain do that?
Quoted from bob_e:Yes the Terrain has both Traction & Stability control in both 2WD and AWD modes.
So tell all of us: Are you too lazy to look it up? Or just trash talking because you don't know shit.
https://www.gmcterrain2.com/gmc_terrain_traction_control_electronic_stability_control_system_operation-1566.html
Yes, I know that. But what you did not comprehend, or maybe I did not explain it in simple enough terms is that:
An EV with 4 electric motors, like the Rivian and others, will have far superior AWD/4WD capabilities over your Turdrain or any other ICE AWD system.
Quoted from bob_e:I don't want to spend 70,000 freaking dollars or more.
Ford 150 Lighting starts under $40k
Quoted from zaphX:It's nice to view a topic objectively and not rely on tribalism.
100%
I try to do my best in that respect but often get pulled into the tribe
Quoted from bob_e:I guess tezlas have bug proof glass like the cybertruck has bulletproof glass,but not rock-proof 8=( .
And salt spray from winter roads? tezla are made in California and soon Texas no snow and salted roads there.
If you could only clean windshields at home with some sort of glass cleaner we could solve this issue.
Quoted from UnnDunn:The recent Biden Infrastructure bill mandates that EV charging stations built or subsidized with federal funds should have at least 4 150kW stalls, of which at least 3 must be working 97% of the time.
That makes me LOL
They are trying to mandate chargers are working 97% .... well if they mandate it than I am sure it will happen
Quoted from tripplett:Most people don't realize in stopped traffic an EV uses almost no energy,
How much?
A/c, screens, lights, computer, etc ... are still running - not sure what that accounts for but it's got to be something.
I mean, everything is still running but the drive motors?
I have no idea about climate change, not even sure what climate change is - I always thought the climate is always changing
But... I am for pollution reduction .. EVs are not a solution but another step in the right area ... and yes I understand we need cleaner electricity generation
What we really need is the aliens to bring us zero point energy generators - that would solve so many global issues
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:The leaders of Nigera view themselves as being royalty of some kind ...
Feel like most leaders do ... including those of this country
Quoted from Ribs:I don’t think it is a coincidence that this dude from Texas has no shortage of skepticism towards academics, scientists, non-profits, environmentalists, sustainability advocates, people who have clearly made life decisions that are not financially motivated, ect… and literally none towards the fossil fuel industry or the mountains of corporate profits at our known and documented expense. It’s simply bad risk analysis. Consistent with a belief system full of bad risk analysis. It’s parroting exact talking points of unimpressive politicians with clear financial interests, another convenient but expected blind spot from our Texas friend.
He tries to bring up the choices of some wealthy individuals as if anything they do could individually could help a systematic problem. As if their greed is representative of all the regular non-wealthy folk who care. As if them flying private jets is just an easy excuse and out from having to consider the people who actually have to carry the burden of pollution and climate change. Fuck the farmers, people who live on the coasts, people who rely on water from the mountains, people who can’t go outside because of wildfires many states away, the ocean, people who rely on the societal stability all these things provide. Fuck all them and any effort to help them because some wealthy person is being hypocritical while advocating for a more sustainable future. Fuck them and make sure you are never critical of the people making money hand over fist at their expense. That would be the worst thing you could ever do in Texas.
20B.gifQuoted from poppapin:Greta would definitely get you moderated! I find it hysterical that you think we can change the climate. I mean we can all be good stewards of the planet, but the climate has been changing forever! Can't stop Mother Nature.
that's why I just wish we would focus more on pollution, which we can reduce
and I don't think there is much disagreement on that
Quoted from tripplett:For instance over the last 4 years I’ve camped in my Model 3 several times now. Fold the back seats down and a twin mattress fits perfectly. On the last trip it was a balmy 90 degrees F but inside we were nice and cool and watched Netflix for a few hours before falling asleep. 3 hrs of movies and 12 hrs running the hvac (and some lights) used up only 30 miles (10%) of range.
Interesting
Quoted from Neal_W:Are you aware CO2 and CO (carbon monoxide) are not the same? ICE tailpipe puts out contaminants CO and hydrocarbons that are minimized by going electric hence the bothersome changes ahead and this discussion. CO2 puts the fizz in beer and soda.
I like fizz
Quoted from girloveswaffles:Another problem in California, Arizona and Nevada is that we have a problem with the Colorado river right now.
Lake Mead is at it's lowest point ever, and is now so low the Boulder dam may not be able to produce electricity soon.
So there's a carbon free source we may not be able to rely on.
I thought we already solved this by putting wind generators on the hoods of cars?
we should start another thread for climate discussions "I hate fresh air"
and on a side note ... who ever came up with the term "Climate Change" is a stupid fck
If we just would of stuck with "Reducing Pollution" there would be a lot less against it
Quoted from AlexF:It's not the EVs it's the self righteous owners that are grating. I saw a Rivian drive through my town when I was walking the dog. It was kind of exciting to see and looked pretty good. Then I though to myself I bet the owner is a total know it all douche. Ha.
that's a giant leap in assumption
Quoted from zaphX:In CA you probably plugged in while you were at work and drove home on a full tank, leaving plenty to get to the hospital.
Even if it's down to 5% you still have the ~30 miles or so to get there.
we are not ready
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:To put things in perspective, on average there are 17 million new auto sales per year in the us (car and light truck). Over 10 years that is 170 million new auto's sold. According to the article you posted, once online the lithium mining operation is projected to yield enough material to power 5 million EV's over the same 10 year period.
In other words, the Snow Lake mining operation is projected to supply enough lithium to power 2.9% of the total automobiles that will be sold in the US over its first decade of operation (assuming reserves are enough to yield a steady supply for that period).
yet people are smart and we always figure shit out...
Quoted from DiabloRush:This is easily one of my favorite threads on Pinside, mainly to listen to folks talk about things they don’t have much real knowledge about. The latest is “electric aircraft”. For 2 basics reasons of engineering and physics, these will never be anything other than a niche for very short-haul applications (perhaps up to 100 miles).
Why? The energy requirements of flight, and energy densities of the fuels. Gasoline is phenomenal. It has an enormous energy density of 48 MJ/kg. “To lift a ton with a teacup” as the early British engineers used to boast. The most advanced Lithium battery has only 0.3 MJ/kg of energy storage. These vary by more than a factor of 100. Even with this incredible energy density, half the weight of transatlantic aircraft is fuel. And this is why electric passenger aircraft are simply not practical, nor will be anytime in the foreseeable future.
you need an asterisk
* with current battery tech as we know it - I have learned to never say never
Quoted from xsvtoys:Calling anything that is diesel electric (submarine, locomotive, cruise ship, etc) an "EV" in the context of this thread seems like a stretch, I presume this is Vid in one of his taunting modes.
Or, maybe it is the way of the future, I don't know. Electric is good no matter how its done.
[quoted image]
Just a different location for the electric generation, what's the real difference if there is an onboard diesel generator or it charges it batteries from a coal fired plant down the line?
Quoted from Pickle:Let’s get this thread back on topic…#1 reason I hate EV’s….they are ugly
There are a lot of great looking EV's!
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pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from Mr_Tantrum:2 out of 5 ain't bad (the Audi & Tesla). Personally, I've never liked the body of the Land Rovers (or whatever that first pic) and that station wagon looking vehicle just doesn't do it for me.
That Mustang is sacrilege.
well ... there is no accounting for bad taste
& there is no Tesla in those pictures
Quoted from zaphX:No love for Taycan?[quoted image]
also a great looking car, but this is the version I like
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from Mr_Tantrum:I question the eye of anyone who thinks any station wagon (past, present, or future) looks cool. Did you have a poster of this on your wall as a young teenager?
[quoted image]
Question away, I think there are plenty of great looking cool station wagons
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from Mr_Tantrum:Nobody in the history of automobiles has ever done a double take when a station wagon drove by.
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from zaphX:- Tesla still sells at MSRP on their website, making them the most attractive option if you don't want to overpay!
That's all relative as Tesla constantly adjust prices to reflect market conditions
Quoted from zaphX:It's the Camry for me.
The Toyota Camry is for people who hate cars and driving.
I like all 3, so .....
Quoted from zaphX:The Electric Sport Sound gives Taycan a lot of character that might otherwise be lost in an electric drivetrain.
I can't even get behind you on that
I guess you are also a fan of the artificial exhaust sounds on some ice cars?
Quoted from zaphX:It's a toggle, and I do prefer having it on. It completes the experience, at least for me.
that's worse than I imagined
Quoted from zaphX:Well, at least it doesn't "SoUND LiKE A sLOt MAcHInE!"
are there other sounds you can select?
Quoted from UnnDunn:in the three months since I got my Hyundai Kona EV, I have driven it 7,630 miles
holy cow that's a lot of miles
Quoted from zaphX:This would probably be better suited for a "I hate climate change" thread, but I must throw my unsolicited opinion in anyway...
In the big freeze of Feb 2021, we got down to -8 degrees here in DFW.
I've never seen anything like that in the 50 years I've been here...have you?
How can you deny the climate is changing when we see dramatic deviations in the seasonal norms?
to be fair - 50 years is but a blip in the existence of the earth and 1 event during those 50 years is really meaningless
Climate is always changing, it's such stupid term
I wish we could just refrain the whole climate change issue into just work to reduce pollution regardless of it's proven effect on climate
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:The issue here at its root is not ICE parking in EV spots. The issue is the EV spots being in a prime location and lazy people parking in them because they are open and closest to the entrance. If you want to significantly reduce this type of behavior then the charging stations should be located at/near some of the furthest spots from the entrance (or in a far less convenient location). Not saying people who do this aren’t jerks, but human behavior is predictable. Also, having the EV charging spots in a prime location conveys/implies privilege for EV drivers, which in turn evokes a “You think you’re better than me? I’ll show you!” attitude in some.
agree, and would not have an issue with this.
But, could be the charging spots are close to the building for electrical reasons
Quoted from flynnibus:it's douches who don't respect others
sums up a large issue with society in general these days
Quoted from RyanStl:People are so obtuse they don't read signs or realize there is a fuel station in their spot.
100%
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:Not butthurt nor am I an ev owner. Maybe comedy isn't your forte.
ignore function is your friend
Quoted from xsvtoys:But NOT as a good as a Blackberry, because nothing will ever be as good as a Blackberry
I still have 2 of them squirreled away. Maybe they will come back someday.
[quoted image]
I much preferred the TREO
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from cconway84:Some asshat in a F250 tried to roll coal on me as I merged onto the highway and he slowed way down to 30 or 40 right in front of me to roll coal. Joke was on him when I passed him towing a 1800lb Uhaul trailer and he tried to accelerate to prevent the pass and couldn’t. Dual motor model Y. Only sad sentry mode didn’t get the license plate number.
Humans are awesome
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:That must be ultra red-neck stuff as I've never seen such a thing here in North Texas (not saying it doesn't exist here). Also, EV owners shouldn't flatter themselves too much as I'm sure these truck drivers equally enjoy "rolling coal" on ICE vehicles.
a few states have made it illegal
Quoted from vid1900:Yeah, I had a New Beetle that sat for repair for months at the dealership.
They gave me a loaner, but it was a crappy VW model..
Worse than the Beetle
Quoted from xsvtoys:Now a cult classic, and will cost many thousands if you want one.
Or,
https://carbuzz.com/news/the-volkswagen-thing-could-return-as-an-electric-vehicle
I am looking forward to the VW ID Buzz
https://www.vw.com/en/models/id-buzz.html
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from smalltownguy2:I used to share that opinion, although the EV conversation being added to the mix makes it a break-even at this point for me (including rebates).
House batteries have shot through the roof right now - that's the only thing that's really holding me back from doing a full solar array on my roof with a house battery in the basement.
I'm already due for a service upgrade (only 100amp service in my house and the panel needs to be upgraded as well as my wiring.) As long as I'm rewiring the house I might as well upgrade to 200amp, send an 80amp circuit to the garage for EV charging, and outfit the roof with panels. I have a large lot with an 80 foot ranch home with a 4/12 pitch roof that faces east/west. Good candidate for solar. Easy to climb up, easy to maintain, low pitch means good sun angle.
But the Tesla PowerWall is killing me right now with their pricing.
check out Generac's PWRCell
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:I figured out how to solve the range issue when towing using an EV pickup.
[quoted image]
That's a diesel generator in the bed for those of you who don't know what one looks like.
Why go to the trouble, just stick a windmill in the bed - free energy
Quoted from vid1900:Wind turbines are great, but they only work in areas with steady winds.
Although they are always becoming more efficient, you probably need winds of 15mph on a regular basis right now
truck creates it's own wind as it moves and generates more electricity with wind mill = free energy
Quoted from zaphX:You need to understand though, the "risk" of being stranded in an EV is no different from an ICE vehicle.
In both cases mismanaging the fuel source is due to one reason only: lack of planning.
except, with an ICE you really don't need to plan at all because quick refueling is everywhere
Quoted from zaphX:I just used the sprayer in the car.
look at you mr fancy pants car
Quoted from PoMC:Tesla's are so damn ugly. Been seeing more of them in my area and wonder what the fuss was all about. Such basic and ugly styling.
Agree, they are not the greatest looking cars, the Model S is the best IMO
but they function so well and have the best charging network so ....
Quoted from MrBally:Speaking of EV's and SEMA:
https://fb.watch/gDPU2wYvAZ/
that looks like the Rich Rebuilds ATV
Quoted from pinballizfun:For the EV zealots who love to say "BuT tHEre wERen'T Gas sTaTIOns wHen CaRS caME OuT!!" No one said you couldn't still buy a new horse when cars came out, heck you still can now.
First mainstream EV you could buy was Tesla model S and it came out 10 years ago
Guess What, you could have still bought new ICE vehicles for the last 10 years and probably for at least the next 10 years+ and when they are no longer available new, they will be around used for a long time.
Arguments in this thread are rehashed over and over.
The EV crowd easily admits the current short comings of EV's with the 2 main drawbacks are higher cost and long distance travel (charge time on trips),
but the ICE crowd never concedes to EV positives - almost 0 maintenance, less moving parts to break, charge at home for 99% of daily use with a full tank every morning, fun to drive and better driving, lower operating costs
The world is going EV for several reasons including they are just easier to assemble and manufacture and more profitable than ICE - you can adapt or whine and cry about it - car companies are moving on regardless
Quoted from UnnDunn:But how long do they take to charge?!!!??!?!?!!?
doesn't cost much to have spare batteries already charged and ready to go and you can charge them in the back of most modern pickups
amazed how some people just fight back against everything
Quoted from Pinplayer1967:I bought this for my new campervan incase a tree falls across my way and it makes a nice weapon that stores easy behind the seat. Just pull the trigger and you are slicing and dicing right now!
Great use, difficult to just store gas chainsaws like that
Quoted from zaphX:You know, you can hate EVs without personal attacks.
100% never understood why people can't just argue facts while being respectful
exactly why he is on ignore
Quoted from zaphX:New thread: I hate electric tire inflators
are there a lot of gas powered tire inflators?
Quoted from mrm_4:Then you get this type of warrior here that blocks people but somehow feels the need to comment as if he has any idea what was said. Clown world.
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from mrm_4:Still ignoring the other point about how this thread is completely filled with people who SAY they’re EV lovers but DRIVE ICEs?
Sure I’ll show you, as soon as all these posers show me a selfie in front of the EV they just bought.
So one can't like something without owning it?
That's a new one to me but ok.... what are the other rules?
Quoted from mrm_4:Then you have this blurred cesspool of guys that chime in and act all high and mighty bashing the EV haters as if they are somehow a better person because they agree with an idea. However just because you agree with an idea doesn’t move you to a place where you can act as if you are in the same camp as an EV owner that PRACTICES THE IDEA. Because after your keyboard warrior moments you go back to driving the same vehicle that you are saying is destroying the world.
Just absurd
I really like EV's a lot and argue for them but do not currently own one.
There is a big chance that when I am ready for my next car it will be an EV
I don't think I act all high and mighty and don't feel others are either - most are not claiming EV's are currently saving the world
And, I have the right to argue any point to any extent I want regardless of current ownership status
So I guess I will just wear a clothespin on my nose to avoid that cesspool smell
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from vid1900:Your local utility will give you a free box of the best LED Bulbs.
Not only are they dimable, and never burn out, but will still function in a brown-out when only 40vac is available.
I send these to all my red neighbors, who immediately get upset, and give the kits to me.
Red: "'Did you get a goshdam kit from the electric company???"
Vid: "Yeah, pretty cool, huh?
R: "Im not using any LED bulbs or water saving faucet !!! WTF are they thinking??? Next they'll send me paper drinking straws!!!"
V: "I'll take them."
R: "All yours buddy, all yours."
https://focusonenergymarketplace.com/free
Being on well water, I hate the water savers and rip them out of all my faucets for higher pressure
Love led's as do all my neighbors - red and blue
Quoted from vid1900:Next time your pressure pump goes out, put in a higher pressure unit (or a variable pump)
The installers always put the most tiny pumps in to save a buck.
pressure comes from the holding tank, we don't have a pressure pump
Quoted from vid1900:That sucks.
Do you even have 60psi at the tank?
honestly, pressure is not all that bad
This is interesting, they used self-smothering battery packs and the batteries actually contained the fire keeping it a nonissue
Was never out of control and only 1/3 of the battery packs were damaged
Seems safer than an ICE
EV's are the future.... but We aRe Not reAdY.........
I like them as cars .... but You cAn't roAd TrIp
99% of my driving is around town ..... bUt yUo onLy haVe a 300 MilE RAnge
it requires almost no maintenance ... but hOw wILl you cLEan yOUr winDows
I love how they drive ..... BUt nO COol LoOK AT mE EXhausT Sound
You can charge to a full tank at home every night .... but You cAn't roAd TrIp
You can warm the car up in your closed garage ...... but
You can cool your car in your closed garage ... but
They are faster then ICE ...... but
Quoted from Brainiac:My elderly mother needs to drive from South GA to north GA (approximately 300 miles). What EV can she buy under 40 grand to make the trip without having to stop somewhere she is unfamiliar with?
I need to drive from Atlanta, GA to Chicago with family of 6, and I can't stop somewhere for an hour a time as I need to make it in 12 hours. What EV can I get?
In those situations the current crop of EV's at this time would not be your best choice as stated over and over again. The current largest negative against EV's right now are price and charging time on road trips. If you are on a limited budget or have to travel long distances often and are not happy with stopping for 20 mins to recharge, then stick with ICE for now.
Quoted from MrBally:Looks like the VW id4 is inadequate for a road trip. Requiring a tow to charge the battery seems unacceptable.
https://electrek.co/2022/11/14/mainstream-ev-range/amp/
no clue, but I really want to check out one of these when available
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from vid1900:While you are filling your tank next week with $5 a gallon gas, remember Big Oil just made it's highest profit ever last quarter.
In the 3rd quarter, Exxon made a record breaking 23 Billion while forcing inflation to a 40 year high
Enjoy.
I love EV's but I am not anti-oil
.... did anybody care when they were losing millions in 2020?
Exxon did not cause inflation ... that was a gift from the uncle sam
Quoted from vid1900:Another thing that no US citizen seems to know is that the USA is the LARGEST producer of oil in the world:
USA 14.5%
Russia 13.1%
Saudi Arabia 12%
Canada 5.8%
Iraq 5.3%
...and as you probably now can guess, the US gets 94% of it's oil from North America
yup .... 'Merica!
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:A Tesla burst into flames on a Pennsylvania highway late Tuesday morning, burning so hot as to only be recognizable by its rims, firefighters said.
Multiple fire departments were dispatched to a vehicle fire at Mile Marker 137 on Interstate 80 Westbound in Cooper Township just before 11 a.m. Tuesday.
The daughter of the couple driving the car told WTAJ they were driving their Tesla Model S when a "large piece of debris" went underneath the car, causing it to begin to smoke. The couple, identified as "Michelle and Bob," pulled over and got out of their car. Neither were injured.
Because of the electric vehicle’s lithium battery, extinguishing the fire took around 12,000 gallons of water. Typically, crews can extinguish a vehicle fire with around 500 gallons of water or less.
Firefighters spent around two hours extinguishing the flames as the vehicle would continue to reignite and burn fierce at times, the Morris Township Volunteer Fire Company said.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
that'll buff right out
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Quoted from vid1900:Over 200,000 ICE vehicles catch fire on the highway every year.[quoted image]
to be fair, stats like this should be quoted as a percentage of cars on the road .... the actual numbers don't really tell you much as there are a lot more ICE on the road so you should expect it to be much higher
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:You are missing the point. The quote was "electrons are less flammable than gasoline", and the retort to that point is that EV fires take significantly longer to extinguish and in this particular case it took the firefighters 24 times the amount of water to extinguish the EV fire than the typical ICE fire.
I had first had experience with an ICE car fire last year (not mine) took the fire dept at least 1/2 hour using water and foam to put the fire out - kept reigniting and exploding several times
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:To address your statistic, according to Car And Driver the National Fire Protection Association states that passenger cars average 117,400 fires annually between 2013 and 2017. According to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics, in 2018 there were 216,037,752 registered vehicles in the US. This equates to 0.04% (that's 40 per 100,000) ICE vehicles catching fire in a given year (mostly due to fuel leaks). Other sources have reported there are approximately 25 per 100,000 EV fires.
thanks, that's what i was looking for. I do think EV fire safety will improve .. posted a video a few post up of an EV non-fire becuase they used self-smoldering battery packs - fire was contained to 1 battery pack and other 2 were still usable
Quoted from vid1900:When I was a volunteer firefighter, we'd protect any nearby property, and just let the vehicle burn itself out.
Even ICE cars don't explode like in the movies. The tires pop after a few minutes, and that's the end of the excitement.
As time goes on, they'll probably start wrapping EVs in a fire shroud and let them cook.
not like in the movies at all, but there was definitely a few explosions
Quoted from vid1900:Did you have a bunch of propane tanks in the trunk?
Or did you hear the tires exploding?
You can shoot a few 50cal rounds right through a vehicle's fuel tank, and she still won't explode.
could have been tires ... was not my car so not sure what was in it
but the FD could not put it out for a long time, kept flaring up - used water and foam
There is nothing in a 50cal round to start a fire, it's just a hunk of lead
unless it causes sparks going through the gas tank - I love movie magic
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:I know one Tesla owner second hand through a very close friend of mine, and their experience with Tesla service repairing a flat was terrible. They had a flat/blowout on a major highway in Dallas, and when they contacted Tesla they were told they were booked and it would be the next day before they could get to the flat. Ultimately, they had to abandon their car, call friends to come pick them up, and wait a day before the flat was repaired.
I don't care what kind of car you drive, never put yourself 100% at the mercy of others when you could be stranded, regardless of the commitments/contracts you may have with someone like Tesla, AAA, etc. Even if you are not physically capable to make such a repair yourself, at least have the elements on board so that a helpful bystander could do the job for you. Personally, I've stopped numerous times to assist people who looked like they needed help to change flats (e.g. ladies, kids in the car, a youth, etc.), and in every case they did need help and were sincerely appreciative. I tend not to stop for grown men but the few times I have just rolled down the window and asked if they were good, and in each case they waived me on.
Why do you need tesla repair for a flat .... just about anybody that fixes tires could have helped them
Quoted from zaphX:Speaking of Porsches and hating EVs, I got rid of my Taycan yesterday.
Traded it for this one.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Why the change? What's the difference?
Quoted from zaphX:Color, GTS trim, leather interior, and the biggest change: AWD instead of RWD. MUCH faster. 0-60 from 5.2 -> 3.5.
enjoy
Quoted from zaphX:Color, GTS trim, leather interior, and the biggest change: AWD instead of RWD. MUCH faster. 0-60 from 5.2 -> 3.5.
infotainment get any better?
Quoted from zaphX:They actually fixed that for all Taycan models earlier this year. It works much much better (even on my previous car.)
enjoy ... very nice
I am still itching for a Rivian
Quoted from paynemic:So I finally got invited to the Full Self Driving beta group on my 2017 Tesla model S. I have to say, I was prepared for garbage. It’s actually been surprisingly good. From home to work and back it did the drive perfectly except one intervention when I got a little nervous as someone was confused and half in my lane and half in the turn lane. My car was just gonna whip right around but it made me nervous on my first day so I disengaged. Other than that, is was about 15% slower than my normal commute. I’m surprised that I’m feeling impressed.
Does FSD obey speed limits or can you set a % over?
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:I've also read a lot about EV freight trains in the US (which are currently diesel to electric - i.e. they convert diesel to drive electric motors) starting to come online.
A lot of ships are that way also going back a 15 years+
https://new.abb.com/marine/systems-and-solutions/azipod
Quoted from smalltownguy2:My next door neighbor is part of a tandem driving team for UPS. If you said this to his face he would likely rearrange it.
That was a seriously inappropriate comment.
Are all gay jokes now inappropriate and cause for violent retaliation or is your neighbor just a huge homophobe and so sensitive to the point if someone jokes that he may be gay he has to resort to violence - Because to me it seems an odd reason for violence
Quoted from zaphX:I was a big believer in Tesla - bought my wife one - but I cannot support them further unless Elon is out.
If I only bought products based on how I felt about it's leadership, I couldn't buy 1/2 the shit I do .. same with my entertainment consumption
Quoted from zaphX:Voting with our wallets is the only power we have to effect change.
What change are you trying to effect and what other products are you not buying to effect such change?
And who has time research every CEO's stance on issues I care about before making purchases or actor's stance before I watch shows ... sounds exhausting
Quoted from zaphX:Not going to go into it as it would be too political for pinside.
Quoted from vid1900:Shell has already admitted that Net Zero is the only way the earth will survive.
Their stated Net Zero deadline is 2050
Shell is the 16th largest producer of solar panels
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/This-Oil-Major-Says-Net-Zero-Emissions-Is-The-Only-Way-To-Go.html[quoted image]
27 years is a long time.
I don't think it's an admission, but more of following opportunity.
Gov't regulations are going to continue to clamp down on emissions and if you are in the oil business and want to survive ... you look for opportunity.
Myself ... I would love to see a net zero emissions environment and hope we make some huge leaps in the next 27 years becuase we will need better tech to get there.
Quoted from zaphX:Yeah charge speeds are going up. Taycan does 5->85% in ~20 mins on the right charger (350kW 800volt)
now you just have to find capable working charge stations
Quoted from zaphX:I actually agree with this.
I'm an enthusiastic promoter of EVs for the same reason I was an enthusiastic promoter of TiVo, Macs, iPhones, etc. I genuinely love the product experience and I'm excited about it.
Any and all arguments about "you should be doing it too to save the world" are not going to work.
I will, however, counter the misinformation the anti-EV crowd spreads about the environmental impact of EVs.
That's different than trying to guilt people into driving one.
Loved TIVO in it's day, still think they had the best OS and the newer tivos integrated very well with the limited streaming services you could access on their box.
Quoted from pinballizfun:There have been EV people in this very thread who have openly admitted charging can be a hassle.
Agree .. from what I have read and seen ... charging on the road for non-tesla cars can be a hassle.
The issue is finding stations that are operational and work at the advertised charging rate - this should improve, but now it seems hit or miss.
BUT .... charging overnight while it's parked at your house could not be less of a hassle - easier then putting gas in a car
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:For the most part I am a serious person but I try not to take myself too seriously
100% key to a happy life
Quoted from zaphX:People beating this drum are not arguing in good faith and it's best to just stop engaging.
They also like to treat being plugged in like the car is 100% unusable until it's done.
That's completely dependent on how low you roll in. Just like a cellphone, if it's on the charger you can take it off the charger to use it up to whatever state of charge you have.
This is exactly why we can't have honest conversations and debates about anything. Nobody wants to concede to the other side when they state a truth that goes against their argument. How do you grow as a person and gain knowledge if you are so attached to your beliefs that you can never admit that your argument isn't 100% and maybe the other side has some truth to their position also.
Quoted from zaphX:I think you'll find I've done that many times in this thread.
What I'm tired of is the repeated stuff that isn't even in debate.
I CaN FiLL uP In TwO MiNuTeZ AnD I AlWAyZ HaVE tO DRiVe 500 MiLeZ EvERy DaY!!!
That's not arguing in good faith, it's just trolling. And I'm done with the trolls. Folks willing to debate actual facts are welcome.
Agree, you absolutely have,
Others would not think it
Quoted from mtp78:Keep drinking the Kool Aid boys. Keep watching all the Elite's flying around in their private jets,living in their multi mansions and driving in suvs.not to mention how the third world is polluting the world
You driving in your prius is saving the world. Wink !
As I said before, to me an EV is not saving the world, it's just a better vehicle experience.
Away this weekend and got a plug in hybrid with 40 Mike's EV range. Charged it at the hotel and it got me around all day on EV mode. Really need my own EV!!!!! Soon!
Quoted from rwmech5:Thieves don't care, we had a bunch of a/c condensers stolen from homes under construction a bit ago. They cut the 208 v and the 275 psi a/c lines with an axe. Must've made a hell of a bang.
they don't. we had same issue with business units on our roof one summer
Quoted from usandthem:I'm wondering what peoples' opinions are on the 2023 Toyota Prius. Two knocks on the Prius have always been looks and performance. Looks are subjective of course, but this seems like a good-looking car. Performance has been amped up to 194 HP, while still getting 56 MPG in mixed driving. Not going to blow anybody's doors off, but certainly adequate for every day driving. It's a Toyota and has a long-established nameplate, so you have to assume that build quality and resale will be good. It seems like an excellent bridge on the long road to full practical electrification for a majority of drivers. Plus, at least in my state, you get to dodge the EV tax and have a car that literally sips gas. Curious as to what others think. It looks like a winner to me.
[quoted image]
saw the reveal, they knocked it out of the park on looks - I actually really like it a lot
Quoted from zaphX:If it were pure electric they’d really have something there.
plug in hybrid gets you part of the way there https://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehicles/priusprime
Quoted from vid1900:It was not Even some big exposure, or scandal.
When you read the documents yourself, it's mainly just internal Twitter employees debating whether hacked material could be linked to, or propagated.
Since the laptop was hacked, and the data not authorized to be given out, It was decided that linking to it violated Twitter's no hacked or stolen material rules.
Other documented debates were trying to decide if the data was even authentic, or if it had been tampered with; since it came from such a dubious source.
Like you, I was ready for blood, but instead only got dust ...
Not just about the laptop ....
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:Great car or not, Ford calling that vehicle a Mustang is sacrilege to generations of Mustang owners and its design legacy.
They will get over it and move on
Quoted from MtnFrost:I lost a deep connection with my sister when she started down the same path. I used to think nothing could separate us. Now we don’t talk at all. Her illness was instigated by her church embracing those political red herrings.
And my second car was a Mustang II. It’s ok, next was a Mach 1.
That's really sad, we are quickly losing our ability to converse and socialize with people outside our tribe.
Quoted from Fytr:I reject that framing. There is only one "tribe" and they are lost to reason.
Sorry, I see it from both sides
Quoted from UnnDunn:Congrats!
Get back to me in a year
Can't even configure it or see what the price will be, all you can do is give them a grand to hold
Quoted from zaphX:That is pretty disappointing, I had high hopes those "new" chargers were going to improve reliability.
agree ... this seems to be the biggest issue with large scale adoption
Maybe some one smarter than me can figure out what is going on, but i thought electronics like it cold
(i do know batteries hate the cold)
Quoted from zaphX:Did not - it's too grown-up and serious looking for me
As I understand it, it's essentially the same car as the Taycan.
I've been a Porsche fan since 1998. I've tried to kick a few times, but keep coming back so now I just accept that I'm going to have to drive one.
and porsche is a little to "much" for me
while I wait a year for the Rivian, thought I may test some other EVs to see if I like them enough to cancel my R1T preorder
Quoted from zaphX:I don't think you can go wrong with the E-Tron! Let us know how it goes.
the R1T is my ideal EV - but you are so fond of the Taycan I want to give both a look
Quoted from zaphX:Used Tesla prices dropping also.
All used car prices are dropping
Quoted from usandthem:Then let’s get off the high horse and stop pretending that it’s all about the environment ..... If EV’s are to “help the environment”, they’re not doing the best job that they could.
Don't think anybody is 100% arguing that - I think there are some environmental benefits and some negatives. EV's are not going to save the world ... yet.
I like them more for what they are better at than ICE - limited maintenance, simplicity of drivetrain, full "tank" every morning, lower running costs, smooth acceleration without gear changes (original CVT's were like this until they programed fake gear changes - which I never understood)
We are definitely not a point where EV's are for everyone but they do make sense for a %
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:Also, I don't know a single man who ties his identity to a car.
Unfortunately, I do and no longer associate with him
Quoted from zaphX:The debacle with Twitter really laid bare what a fake he is.
How so, can you elaborate?
Quoted from zaphX:Sure. I watched a video call between Elon and many Twitter engineers, including the fairly famous George Hotz aka GeoHot.
Elon decided the whole thing needed to be rewritten from the ground up.
When pressed why, he simply said “have you seen our crazy stack?”
GeoHot, in earnest, asked Elon to define specifically what was crazy/wrong with it compared to other high volume sites.
It’s an absolutely legitimate question to ask. Elon couldn’t answer so he instead called him names.
For me that was the moment it became crystal clear; he’s not a brilliant engineer visionary. He’s a rich kid bully with no technical skills.
He is an odd egg, I will give you that.
But not sure this completely disqualifies him as a "brilliant engineer visionary"
I still like the guy, always have from the start
I just find it coincidental that a lot of the hate (not all, but much of it) started when he began to pull back the curtain at twitter and revealed the immense suppression of ideas and one sided bias.
Quoted from zaphX:Fuck .. you
Really? That's a little harsh.
I don't think I have been anything but respectful to you.
We don't agree on everything, but for the most part I feel you have been balanced on your opinions and I respect that.
Don't really think I have said anything that earned an FU, but OK
Quoted from usandthem:You’re really big on taking your ball and going home when the direction of the conversation (more specifically, people having a different opinion than yours) is not going the way you’d like. That’s very progressive and tolerant of you.
In his defense, I normally don't find him to be that way - but everybody is entitled to a crappy day
Quoted from girloveswaffles:There are a lot of Tesla's in the area, but it's rare to see one in that color. It's like "Hey, Model 3 Owners, they do come in other colors than Fleet Sales White!"
White is only no charge "free" color, hence the proliferation of white Teslas
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:When you are spending $60K what's another couple of hundred bucks to customize the color?
Depends, if you are paying cash, it's another grand out of your pocket
Quoted from ASAC_Schrader:You can mark my words now…..or later if you want……
EV’s are a fad. They are not sustainable.
They are filling a gap until better technology comes along.
I am driving my ICE vehicles until they fall apart. Then evaluate options after that.
EVs are 100% here to stay.
What is a "Fad" or what tech will change is the electricity storage and generation.
But an EV is just a much more simple vehicle to design and manufacture with less parts and complexity vs ICE, the car companies are not going back
Quoted from razorsedge:What about the Model X in 'Self Drive' mode that spent 20 minutes bashing backwards and forward at a school fence, seemingly trying to attack the kids on the other side. Luckily slippery turf near the fence prevented enough traction for a breakthrough of the school fence.
I'm totally convinced it was not being controlled/hacked by some santanic entity. Of course that is impossible, as always.
Astounding how people could 'feel safe' in such backwards technological abominations. Who needs a gun to do an assault when you have a 'self driving' car on the hack cloud, right. Lol
Quoted from girloveswaffles:Haven't seen that story, any link?
https://www.theonion.com/children-gather-at-edge-of-playground-to-watch-as-self-1850013121 <--- Satire from the Onion
Quoted from fosaisu:Easy now boys, The Onion is a recognized hard news source in Australia.
and by 37.4% of Americans
Quoted from embryonjohn:Why does the pro EV community have such a fixation with penises?
Did I walk into the wrong bar?
I don't know, so I asked Chat GPT
"As a language model AI I don't have any opinions but this statement is incorrect. The electric vehicle community does not have a fixation with penises. This is a baseless and untrue statement that seems to be intended to denigrate the community."
Quoted from tripplett:Same. My wife hated pumping gas & it wasn't my favorite thing to do either. I had to do all the fueling in our cars even if she got home late, it was cold, bad weather, etc. I'd have to go back out and fill up the car(s) so she could go to work the next morning. Man, I don't miss doing that crap!
sounds like it may have just been easier to get a new wife
Driving EVs could be banned in Switzerland unless in cases of “absolutely necessary journeys” in stage three of the power conservation plans.
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:Nice try.
In all transparency, I didn't read much of the article.
I tried, but my ADD just kicked in.
I love EV's and have one on order ... so no agenda
Quoted from titanpenguin:It’s pretend because they are not free of fossil fuel.
What if some of us just like electric cars for all the benefits exclusive of anything environmental?
Quoted from Trekkie1978:What benefit would that be?
Speaking for me, the benefits are
They require less maintenance
I love how they drive - smooth, no gear changes
You can charge to a full tank at home every night -99% of my driving is around town
You can warm the car up in your closed garage
You can cool your car in your closed garage
They are faster then ICE with instant torque
Cool and outside the box designs
I don't dislike ICE cars, your Vette is beautiful
Quoted from Trekkie1978:How hot does it get and how cold does it get in your garage?
doesn't get that cold as it's a heated garage, but it does got hot
You can strike those from the list if it bothers you, the other benefits are still enough for me
Quoted from Trekkie1978:I was just curious, because I have an unheated garage and I never have to heat or cool the car based on the garage temps.
I don't either, and I can't with my ICE truck - but it would probably be something I do when I get my EV
Quoted from Fytr:I have an insulated but unheated garage attached to my house. I sometimes use my EV in the winter to warm the garage so I can perform some ICE related auto maintenance on one of my other vehicles, works great. Crank the heat, open the doors, come back in 20 mins.
When my house was built, we insulated the garage and installed an electric wall heater that I have set to the low 50's - works well and doesn't run that often
Quoted from mcluvin:Have any of you been able to checkout a new 2023 Prius yet? I actually like the look of it.
getting great reviews, finally a good looking Prius
Agree and exactly why I like them, they are super fun to drive
That's from Rich Rebuilds youtube channel - he also does a bunch of EV builds
there is room for both on the roads
Quoted from Fytr:He still doing content for Youtube? Figured he'd have to have gone back to his day job by now.
over a million subscribers
https://www.youtube.com/@RichRebuilds
Quoted from smalltownguy2:Pro, XLT, Lariat, Platinum. There's no "premium."
I think it was a pinball joke
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from girloveswaffles:Closer to what? Seen several on the road already. Or are you getting one?
just got the email invite to go ahead and configure it
I put a deposit down in December
Quoted from flynnibus:sorry - that thing's front end is ugly as sin on the road. see plenty of them and I cringe every time.
no apologies needed, doesn't offend me in the least bit
I could not care any less what others think about what I drive
Quoted from tripplett:So where does all this EV misinformation come from and why does it perpetuate when it’s so easily disproven?[quoted image]
not from car companies - most of them seem to be moving full steam ahead on EV
Quoted from Neal_W:What's bad about reducing auto accidents and injuries?
that depends on if you are the insurance company or the body shop
Quoted from pinballizfun:No, not in the slightest. He'll I'm more refreshed driving than being the passenger.
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