I think you forgot the 78% of US power generation that comes from sources other than coal.

Hi, I see you’re new here.

All lies.

Not exactly true. While I've posted before, here again is a chart showing US energy production sources. As you can see, in recent years natural gashas become the largest source of energy in the US, while coal and renewables supply roughly equivalent amounts of energy.
pasted_image (resized).png

Where’s the chart that shows the higher that green line gets the more frequent the grids outages and reliability issues also climb? Also notice that we stop burning coal only to replace it with BURNING GAS. Yet the little green line still slithers along under 20%.

EV lover = oh no mrm_4 pointed out facts from a chart that don’t help the renewable narrative I better down vote him and ignore him

100% key to a happy life

This is exactly why we can't have honest conversations and debates about anything. Nobody wants to concede to the other side when they state a truth that goes against their argument. How do you grow as a person and gain knowledge if you are so attached to your beliefs that you can never admit that your argument isn't 100% and maybe the other side has some truth to their position also.

Surely the downfall of civilization will be marked with the phrase, “I only sees what I want to sees.”

The ability to think critically and hold opposites is vanishingly rare nowadays.

Too much belief, not enough knowledge.

The one point that I would make is that as of 2023 in the US they are projecting that 25% of our energy will be sourced from hydro, wind, and solar. 25% of US power emission are a small fraction when looking at the world as a whole. Burning natural gas is cleanest possible fossil fuel. For those who recall their high school chemistry mnemonic device Me Eat Peanut Butter, natural gas is composed of Methane (CH4), Ethane (C2H6), Propane (C3H8), and Butane (C4H10) - i.e. just carbon and hydrdogen chemicals. When fed with oxygen during the combustion process biproducts are CO2 (carbon dioxide) and H2O (hydrogen monoxide - water vapor). These are the same compounds that humans and animals exhale, and that plant life thrives on.

Why would you think renewables would be any less reliable than coal or nat gas? The only recent renewable incident I can recall was with offshore windmills in Texas last year - and that was intentionally done and only accounted for like 10% of the outage’s missing power. In one of the greatest forced blackouts in history the culprit was a natural gas problem.

Well, there is this . . .

"Estimates suggest that turbines in North America kill 600,000 to 949,000 bats and 140,000 to 679,000 birds a year."

The deviation is extremely wide due to multiple studies with different findings. Also, these numbers are on top of the damage our existing power infrastructure does to wildlife (e.g. it has been estimated that power lines kill 25 million birds a year). Although, nature still comes in the lead with cats being the #1 source of bird deaths estimated to be up to 4 billion annually in the US. This cat number comes from the Sierra Club, but just doesn't sound reasonable to me at first glance. However, I looked it up and there are approximately 58 million household cats in the US and about the same number of feral cats. Let's assume that household cats rarely, if ever kill birds. This would mean that each feral cat would need to kill about 70 birds a year. Maybe that is reasonable.

I think you'll find I've done that many times in this thread.

What I'm tired of is the repeated stuff that isn't even in debate.

I CaN FiLL uP In TwO MiNuTeZ AnD I AlWAyZ HaVE tO DRiVe 500 MiLeZ EvERy DaY!!!

That's not arguing in good faith, it's just trolling. And I'm done with the trolls. Folks willing to debate actual facts are welcome.

Wait wait wait
Wait

Cats kill 4 Billion birds a year?!!!

I’d rather have a 90 some page thread around that instead EVs. We’ve been talking about the wrong things.

The conclusion that I've come to on this topic:
1) If you drive an ICE vehicle and are in a hurry then you can fill your tank and be driving away in about 5 minutes
2) If you drive an EV and your typical pattern allows you to mostly charge from home on a regular basis, then you spend about 1 minute a day plugging in and unplugging the charging cable

For the most part, both seem simple and require minimal time and effort to me. If one was to be truly honest about it and look at miles gained per minute of owner effort spent fueling, EV's actually win in many scenarios depending on miles driven per day.

The only case I can see where EV's are at a disadvantage from a time perspective when it comes to "fueling" them, is when your driving patterns and/or housing limitations don't allow you to easily/consistently charge at home. Although progressively becoming easier, tracking down a charging station, waiting your turn, and sitting there for 20-30 minutes while charging just seems like a bit of a beating to me.

Just want to post my experience with the charging of the car. I never ever found it a problem to go to the station to fill up the car. It literally takes only about a few minutes when you do not know better.

Now that I charge at home for about one year now, I really must say that I am so very glad that I do not have to go to that station anymore. I just plug in, (I timed it just now, it takes me 8 seconds) and not think of it anymore. No standing around in the cold or rain, no need to drive two miles to go to the station, no hassles when the card reader does not work again at the station, as they only have one, nothing.

Only now I know how much time it really took to go there and wait. You can argue whatever you want, but leaving home each day with a full battery is great. In all this year I never ever had a range problem.

Having said that, please do not buy an EV, postpone it as long as you can, so they will not put the measures in place for everyone to get taxed on the electricity and also again will charge road taxes. Please do not even consider one for a long while, hold off as long as you can.

A billion birds die each year ramming into skyscrapers.

A certain tower in NYC has 2 full time employees who's entire job is to clean up their corpses
Screenshot_2022-12-10-09-39-50-47_3aea4af51f236e4932235fdada7d1643.jpg

This is inevitable, CA is already working on separate meters for EV charging. I pointed that out over the summer with links to the CA commissions site. Everyone keeps thinking they’ll pay their cozy little KWH price that’s on their bill now and nothing will ever come of it.
Electricity to charge EVs will be taxed and charged and metered all separately and this “I only pay pennies” bragging will be short lived in the grand scheme. All that tax gas brings isn’t going away it’ll shift and with the shift will come opportunities to tax more.

Switzerland preparing for limited power on their grid due to low temps. Might be an issue for some ev owners.

They were also urging people not to use their game consoles in the same article

This is good to know, unfortunately until Frisco Texas limits power and EVs can’t get charged, no one will care in this thread.

This is the big issue that has caused our country so much grief. Very hard to change a belief once it’s been set.

California let's you get separate metering so you pay less for EV electricity .

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/california-puc-ev-electric-vehicle-submetering/629043/

Many states have that Vid. We have “time of use” options where I live. You can pay as little as 6 cents a kw if you are willing to use most of your power during non peak times. But if you use too much power at the wrong time the price goes up really fast. Hence I’ll stick to 11 cents per kw any time of day.

Did I miss any?

IMG_0306 (resized).JPG

Musky says that all animals hate him.

Apparently, animals hate his cars too:

-

A Pitbull Ate My Tesla

I enjoy researching the various ins and outs of these topics, always attempting to find sources that are not associated with fanatical viewpoints on any side, if such a thing is possible.

There is lots of interesting information out there if you want to dig for it. One of the amazing examples is when you research bird kills after hearing about the wind turbine slaughtering. Then you find out about those mind-boggling numbers about birds killed by cats and skyscrapers. Poor birds.

Keep drinking the Kool Aid boys. Keep watching all the Elite's flying around in their private jets,living in their multi mansions and driving in suvs.not to mention how the third world is polluting the world

You driving in your prius is saving the world. Wink !

That’s funny sh1t

It’s like dinosaurs are coming back sometimes

Ya I just picked up MY dual, and it’s by far the best vehicle I ever drove, amazing tech, and the power is amazing especially with the weight to power ratio is crazy imo, very impressed, glad I’m an early adopter

Next this beast to a cyber truck

803027B3-2D34-4430-AB19-B0AC34FD1800 (resized).jpeg

Lyriq (export model) spotted in the wild near Detroit.....

ng 43u I sg (resized).jpg

Agree, you absolutely have,
Others would not think it

As I said before, to me an EV is not saving the world, it's just a better vehicle experience.
Away this weekend and got a plug in hybrid with 40 Mike's EV range. Charged it at the hotel and it got me around all day on EV mode. Really need my own EV!!!!! Soon!

Yes, windows are also responsible for vast numbers of bird deaths.

I wouldn’t buy one of those based on the stupid commercials alone. What the heck are those lyrics?

Seems Texas, just like in California has been adding a lot of Wind Turbines. I was surprisedC0D799AC-CF04-4C69-BECF-22AE2B3C3117_1_105_c (resized).jpeg how many I saw along I-40 five years ago when I drove thru the Pan Handle:
BBD42A30-E0EB-4A5A-B82C-4CAD6D72412C_1_105_c (resized).jpegA0B35512-86FD-4417-B6AF-7E828937A365_1_105_c (resized).jpeg948FAFA8-69A9-4D13-A7EB-F2CFB0051698_1_105_c (resized).jpeg8A971A53-C2E7-46D8-898A-AF4D7E15FBDF_1_105_c (resized).jpeg

But to be fair, Dogs will eat almost anything.

It's Lyriq.

Just saying, I can’t understand the lyriqs. No grown man should sing in that high of a pitch.

Yes, all over Texas and Oklahoma. Quite the eyesore on the otherwise pristine lands.

Sorry about your penis, bro.

If you'd spent even 5 minutes reading this thread before you jumped in to start trolling it, you'd know I don't drive EVs to save the world.

I drive them for the convenience, instant power/torque, almost non-existent service costs, and low cost to run.

But hey, narratives are fun! WINK!

Thanks for pointing that out. I typed it correctly on my phone but spell check changed and pluralized it. Corrected.

preparing for post #4700 in this thread

DerFonz (resized).png

Lol, it’s not for my penis all though I need a big truck to haul it , mostly work Alberta mud, oil work sometimes just need the meats to get you through the trail to the job

That’s the city driver, best vehicle I ever owned, need the cyber truck so I can run that through the mud hells ya

1D8EC84F-9CC6-48AC-90D8-C910E53B28EB (resized).jpeg

Okay, that was funny.