I think you make a good point, and yes, we are finally beginning to invest in the infrastructure needed for EVs. But I guess in all these discussions I'm missing something - if you have options to charge, and you don't normally make daily trips over 300 miles, EVs are available. If you don't have these things yet, or cannot afford an EV, then you have ICEs. So just where is the conflict in all this? Live and let live. Why do some have an issue with this? Nobody is forcing anybody to buy any sort of vehicle. And car manufacturers always follow what the public wants, so again - why not just live and let live on this issue? What am I missing?

Are you concerned that you won't be able to buy a new ICE vehicle over the next decade? That's plenty of time to beef up the charger network to handle all the additional users, and hopefully to develop longer-range batteries to address your use-case.

Got any examples from this thread? Claiming that EVs work for everyone is just as stupid as claiming that EVs work for no one, and I think most posters here have shied away from making either argument. What the EV boosters in this thread have argued is that EVs are a solid option right now for the great majority of drivers. Which seems legit to me, though the squeegee factor is a great counter-point.

...with no way to clean your windshield.

You literally just did it yourself, "for the great majority". No, not even close.

not hard to find.

People are scared of the mandates that are trying to encourage adoption. While deadlines are a long ways away…. Changes are being felt now… even if you can just buy ICE

In general I think the Government should keep there fingers out of EV chargers,
just make the proper laws!
make companies that build EVs come to an agreement on plug versions ( Tesla's connections are by far the best )

I mean look at the Charge America infrastructure, absolute garbage!
Government took a diesel criminals word for charging infrastructure . classic move and blew it

Tesla will make big Coins charging all the non Tesla drivers who want to use their chargers ( buying more stock daily )

the smart banks in Australia have already said they will stop lending for ICE .
they know ICE will be unsellable soon making their loans worthless

to all the nay sayers .. go back a look at what all the people said about Nokia , that
they have the factories
they have the know how
they have the sales and infractructure

sound familiar ?

ever hear of Nokia again ? or blackberry for that matter

It still ain’t happening, think I’ll wait until next year to make a decision.

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Hey, New Zealand! Your country has done very well and ranks very high in the world on a number of factors. Well done! I hope we can follow your own government's wisdom. I have a friend who is Maori. Great guy. I almost moved there to help start this little visual effects studio, called WETA.

Not sure when you ordered, but they can cancel your order after 9 months.

Check out "The Cars that Built the World" on History. In the old days you got your gas from the local hardware store. If it wasn't open, you had to go find the owner.

I wasn't trying to tell you that public EV charger capacity is OK because it was a pain in the ass to get gas for your ICE 100 years ago. Just that it's silly to expect EV to follow a completely different path from every other infrastructure-heavy technology that humans have ever adopted. Railroads, cars, cell phones ... they all started with a skeletal infrastructure setup, then expanded as demand increases. You seem to want the charging grid of 2030 in place today, before anyone buys another EV. That's not realistic.

You're literally misusing the word "literally"!

I needed a goof laugh, thanks.

Dude, you are from Texas.

All the major auto makers have no new ICE on their development plans after 9 years. So you have 9 more years to buy ICE new.

You will have to adapt.

My house, although it is heated by Natural Gas, came with a Heating Oil tank in the back. I keep it filled with Heating Oil (diesel) and fill my truck for cheap by adding a fuel nozzle. It's "adapted".

When you go to a motel, you see power cords running from under the doors out to the cars they are charging. No hotel owners are going to risk loosing their regular accounts by telling them they cant. The trades have "adapted"

Every new home has charging ports roughed-in inside the garage. Builders have "adapted"

You might be too young to remember when no-lead gas cars came out, and old men cried over their Schlitz beer that there would be no way America could make the change. "junk yards will be filled with perfectly good cars that cant get fuel !!!!", "What about my antique Edsel ??? I can never drive it again...." "Evey gas station would have to replace it's pumps. That's impossible!!!!"

Yet, somehow, we adapted.

Exactly.

"Optimism and pessimism are so incompatible that they're not even different answers to the same question, but address two unrelated questions. A pessimist asks, "What do I expect to happen?" An optimist asks, "What future do I seek?" You want pessimists doing things like fixing roads and plugging leaks in dams, but they are never the ones to build them in the first place."

Clearly reading comprehension is not one of your strongest skills.

To those who think the grid isn't ready for all those EVs, the fact is that EVs might be the best thing to improve the grid's resiliency because while connected, they can act as giant batteries that can be used dynamically to store and distribute power where and when it's needed.

Color me skeptical.

Would that be a mauve, or do you think more of a chartreuse? Seriously though - I like the fact that all of this new technology is spurring new thinking. It's like a breath of fresh air, no pun intended, to see people thinking through all of it from new perspectives in energy.

Ohhh chartreuse. I agree, I like all the EV options coming out. Well, I like having the option but do not think the market should be forced into it.

Living on the Gulf Coast, I have my own reasons. During major hurricanes, you get to see what the world looks like when everything falls apart. Think no food, no water, no power and 100F heat. Most recently, my wife was very pregnant during Hurricane Ida and we decided to ride it out at home rather than risk evacuation (evacuating is statistically much more deadly than the storm itself). I was very thankful I had 60G of gas on hand for our generator and vehicle and chainsaws. If you do evacuate, finding gas is already a major problem since power outages kill the gas pumps and only generator-powered gas stations are open (if they even can get fuel supplied). It gets so intense police have to monitor the gas stations. Getting people out is already a problem, and I hope someone is thinking about how this will effect people in a major storm. I would only want an EV as a second vehicle for this reason.

Ford F-150 Lightning can provide power to your home for up to 3 days in the event of a power outage. Hyundai Ioniq 5 and its cousins can supply power for small devices such as stovetops, mini-fridges, home routers and even computers and TVs. Who needs gas pumps or generators?

We were without power for 11 days and others were out even longer. It took 5 days for them just to clear our road to the main highway. For the first 3 days, we were trapped on my property by 30” high flood water and a dozen fallen trees and power lines blocking access. I was able to leave on the third day to get groceries before the shelves were empty (the store has a gas generator) and help neighbors clear trees so they could get out.

I don’t think most people realize what this is like. Even if you evacuate you could be on the road for hours and hours in stopped traffic, everyone trying to find fuel and bathrooms and food just like you. I don’t know what you’d do if an EV is your only vehicle. Trust me, people here aren’t ready for this, it’s already dangerous.

That's fascinating to hear - and it's something that makes adaptation a challenge. Even if no more new cars use gas, I suspect the gas stations to be around for a good 30 years or more after, probably slowly changing to provide for things other than cars.

Did you get a flooded basement with that 30 ft of flood water? Or were you on elevation?

There are no such thing as basements here! Also, many cemeteries are above ground (which has proven ineffective anyway). The part of my property that the house is on is unusually high, we'll never get water in the house.

I am really hopeful for big leaps in battery technology. If something like Tesla Powerwall was affordable for everyone for like a 2-week capacity, it would save a lot of lives.

Anyways, sorry to derail the thread!

You can sleep comfortably in an EV with the A/C on even when it’s parked in your enclosed garage. Figuring out where to send the heat would be the only problem.

It took 23 years to get rid of leaded gasoline in the states

I was reading the NYT, says CA will ban the sale of ICEs by 2035. Wild.

This thread is great, first perpetual motion and now it looks like we've solved the housing crisis!

See, @pinballizfun, even in Cali you'll have 11 years to keep buying new ICEs. Nothing to worry about!

By 2035 all of California’s streets will be completely flooded with human feces and tents so what difference does it make?

EV';s can have a place some day when the tech is mature, and I want the transition to be very slow and thought out. Bugs worked out, etc.

The speed in which our gov is moving the manufactures to produce EV;s makes me very nervous. There is no need to obsolete millions of gas / diesel cars in such short order.

Make them good, make them affordable, and make the engery itself affordable and they will sell themselves. I do not want to be forced into something that is not mature yet.

And what is the plan for battery replacements?

Re-check that long-term forecast, California's slated for mega-drought and wildfires, not flooding.

Read the Bible, both!

Yeah wrong word. Change “flooded” with filled

We AReNT ReaDY!!!

Climate change is why we cannot wait. Seriously, the public is driving both the government and the private market. There is an EXTREME need to get away from fossil fuels as fast as we possibly can. You have to look at the larger picture. Nobody wants power outages in Texas, flooding in the midwest, drought in the Southwest, or increased hurricane activity wiping through the deep South. I hate that this is going to sound like politics, but I literally cannot answer your question without mentioning why we are driving toward renewables so quickly.

EVs are a political topic now because of things we can’t mention. This whole thread is a political wolf in sheeps clothing. I’m surprised it hasn’t been locked 3 times already.

Meanwhile I just returned from a 1400 mile round trip to Nashville and back.

All on Electrify America, and it cost me $0.

Oh that is a very interesting development. One I had not considered.

I don’t see EV discussion as political. I see it as discussion of new technology in the early-adopter phase.

When there’s a big change like this in technology, there are always people eager to explore the new thing, and people afraid of the change clinging to the old thing.

When CDs came out, there were people who howled that LPs were better.
Same for laserdisc enthusiasts when DVDs came out, etc.

Ok… doesn’t matter how you see it. EVs are political. If anyone starts rattling off all of the agenda behind the push for EVs it’s a for sure ticket to a moderation notice.
Comparing CDs to vinyl is cute and cheeky but doesn’t change the facts

In this situation an EV is exactly what you'd want. Take for instance a Tesla Model 3 with 330 miles range. Knowing a storm is coming you'd charge up close to full. Most people don't realize in stopped traffic an EV uses almost no energy, unlike it's gas counterpart - just whatever you're using for hvac, and that's optional obviously. In fact the slower you drive the more efficient the car is. 330 miles is a combination of city/hwy driving.

A couple of guys took a Model 3 on a track and drove around it at the most optimal speed of 35 mph to see how far it would go. They were able to get just over 600 miles of range before it stopped. That would get you from Orlando to Charlotte, NC - more than enough range to get to a place that has power.

It doesn't matter how you see it. EVs are new technology products that have enthusiastic customer adoption.

I really don't think this "push" is even a factor; people are buying them like crazy because they like them.

That *is* impressive but let's be real...nobody's gonna make a 600 mile trip at 35mph.

My range goes down when I road trip because I bury the needle

How much?
A/c, screens, lights, computer, etc ... are still running - not sure what that accounts for but it's got to be something.
I mean, everything is still running but the drive motors?

We AReNT ReaDY!!!

"We aren't ready" needs to be added to that boomer EV bingo card.

ArE YOu sURe?

Oh brother, Kool-Aid must be your favorite drink.

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Dude, you are from Texas.