Quoted from MotorCityMatt:we have not see the sun in Michigan months
Solar works with direct and indirect light. Sure direct is better but I doubt there is 100% rain in your forecast.
(Topic ID: 310586)
Seven Valleys, PA
Mining engineer here, and I love EV’s and Solar panels too. They’re a great excuse to blow tons of energy digging up and refining lithium and rare earths. Whether the energy savings of the final products ever outweigh the total energy spent creating them; I’d like to see a real analysis on that someday. The fact that these things never pay for themselves (government subsidies excluded) and $’s = energy, suggests to me that it’s probably not the slam dunk most people think.
Quoted from curban:Mining engineer here, and I love EV’s and Solar panels too. They’re a great excuse to blow tons of energy digging up and refining lithium and rare earths. Whether the energy savings of the final products ever outweigh the total energy spent creating them; I’d like to see a real analysis on that someday. The fact that these things never pay for themselves (government subsidies excluded) and $’s = energy, suggests to me that it’s probably not the slam dunk most people think.
…that said. The cars are pretty cool. Ugly. But cool.
Quoted from Jaybird815:I maybe should put this in the unpopular thread but the Mustang EV is a much nicer vehicle than the model X
At the very least - it's screwed and glued together much better.
I really like Tesla a lot, but they need to up their quality if they will continue to compete against the new EV's coming to market.
Amazing the lack of quality Tesla gives you in a $100k+ vehicle
Quoted from Reality_Studio:The work Tesla is doing with EV's, energy generation and energy storage will make the grid a moot point as every home can be an energy power station and storage unit to where we won't need the grid as it exists today.
Your house is on the grid. If the grid can't handle all the EV's charging at home rather than a public charger you still have a grid incapable of supporting it.
Quoted from bob_e:All the cars were tested in the same Arizona climate. After 50,000 miles of driving, the Level-2-charged cars had lost about 23 percent of their capacity, while the Level-3-charged cars had lost around 27 percent. It’s hardly the end of the world. Arizona’s searing heat may also have been responsible for taking some toll on the capacity, meaning that the charging could have had even less impact overall.
If my car lost just 5% of its range at 100K I'd be pissed. Gassers get better mileage after being broken in than new. As long as they aren't leaking the gas tank does not shrink the range over time.
Quoted from Pickle:Well don’t lump everyone into 30 miles or less commute to work….I can tell you for a fact MANY people commute 30+ miles one way for work….and you never know when you are gonna be stuck in traffic for over an hour…..on top of the actual mileage you have to drive. That’s almost once a week on a major freeway in the Houston area. So range is a huge issue for EV’s. Plus many people rely on driving besides truckers and average 100-200 miles a day to do their jobs.
That getting 60 miles overnight at 120v also assumes you never need to go out at night which uses battery and takes away that charge time.
Quoted from Reality_Studio:so there zero downtime for me as I'd be stopping anyways. Even then it's only 15 to 20 minutes to charge up, the superchargers are really fast. Compare that to having a gas car where you have to regularly waste time going to fill up, have you ever added up how much time you waste doing that over the course of a year? Not to mention no more gas anxiety of having to go somewhere in a hurry and realizing your car doesn't have enough gas, now you have to scramble to fill up.
in that 15-20 minutes I can refill my gas car at least 10 times from 1/4 tank to a full tank. Gas anxiety? Need to get there in a hurry, I'll take a gasser every time. I'm never more than 2 minutes from full. If an EV is low I might be getting 6 miles/hr of wait time. way faster to spend a minute and a half and getting 300+ miles added to the range by stopping a a place that is literally on the way to everywhere. There is always a gas station closer than a supercharger and its faster to full too. No one goes out of their way to find a gas station they are on the route to anywhere you are going that is outside your residential street.
It's amazing the responses in this thread as it's exactly why it was created. So much misinformation here, so much FUD, it's actually quite hilarious if it weren't so depressing. I can tell you I miss my EV, a lot... I HATE going to gas stations, it's a complete waste of my time. In the 6 years+ I owned an EV I never had to go to the gas station unless I wanted a hot dog or something. Never ran out of electricity, never ran out of battery, always was able to go where I wanted to go. It was great.
It seems to me everyone in this thread that is dumping on EVs has never owned one but are somehow experts. Seems to be a lot of that going around these days, everyone's an expert on everything, just need a few minutes on the toilet and your degree is in the mail... Pathetic.
Jeff
After driving EVs since 2013, they are much, much better in every aspect than gas cars in *everyday* driving, assuming you aren’t commuting for more than 200 miles round trip.
My first EV had only 80 miles range and there were hardly any fast chargers around so this one required discipline hooking it up at every chance and this didn’t feel ready for prime time.
My current EV has 300 miles range and the charging speed and range issues that people who don’t have hands on experience with EVs always bring up are negligible.
I *never* get even close to a conundrum of range or charging speed. I just hook it up to my L2 charger once or twice a week and use free night electricity. I haven’t had a single cent in maintenance cost and only a few $ in electricity since 2013.
How can a gas car compete?
Because I can fill it up quickly? I never have the need for that nor do I have a gas pipeline to my house, so gas is just inconvenient and expensive.
Oh, my EV is 3s 0-60 instantaneous without any lag and the most unbelievably fun car to drive. Too bad EVs got a granola-molasses-no-fun reputation with the first mass produced examples but a 2022 EV isn’t your boring Nissan Leaf anymore but a rocket ship in comparison.
They are still a hassle if you need to drive hundreds of miles in the middle of nowhere. That’s true.
Quoted from jeffro01:It's amazing the responses in this thread as it's exactly why it was created. So much misinformation here, so much FUD, it's actually quite hilarious if it weren't so depressing. I can tell you I miss my EV, a lot... I HATE going to gas stations, it's a complete waste of my time. In the 6 years+ I owned an EV I never had to go to the gas station unless I wanted a hot dog or something. Never ran out of electricity, never ran out of battery, always was able to go where I wanted to go. It was great.
It seems to me everyone in this thread that is dumping on EVs has never owned one but are somehow experts. Seems to be a lot of that going around these days, everyone's an expert on everything, just need a few minutes on the toilet and your degree is in the mail... Pathetic.
Jeff
Hate gas stations? Kind of annoying sometimes but hardly an effort to do once in a while. I think it's remarkably convenient to be able to stop literally anywhere to fuel up and be on your way in only a couple of minutes. You do feel it in the wallet with higher gas prices, though. I will give you that. Still, if everyone drove ev cars there would have to be something to replace gas taxes like taxed per mile. Govt would track your driving and of course some people would pay more, some less. Now that is something I would hate. I also wonder what would happen to most gas stations if everyone had ev. There would be no need for the vast majority of them since most people just charge at home. Changing stations would have to be in parking locations and destinations, not on a random street corner.
London
EVs are the future of course, but I don't think the infrastructure or tech is ready yet, and prices are too high. Consequently, I'm keeping my diesel going for as long as possible during this ICE/EV transition period. On this point, I'd be interested to see environmental impact assessments for people keeping their cars going vs buying a new vehicle (ICE or EV). It seems to me that new car purchasing is very damaging environmentally vs extending use of your current car, but for obvious company lobbying reasons we don't hear much about this, do we?!
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Exactly.
Pretty much anybody who is fanatical about their car is insufferable. The way folks turn a hunk of steel and upholstery into a religion, with a decal of Calvin pissing on a car logo as their messiah, is bizarre.
You car people are all nuts! Move to a big city and embrace bikes and mass transit and all your worries will be over!(the smiley face means you don't have to post those Fox News links...)
We get it bro, you love living in the big city. What seems cool to you though seems like a metropolitan hellscape to me and millions upon millions of other people. Cool, you don't like cars. a lot of people do. Cars are fuckin sweet. I'm sure theres plenty of people out there who think a bunch of nerds who talk about pinball a lot are insufferable too.
On the topic of energy generation, can we get more waste to energy plants here in the US? Everyone thinks its AHHH BURNING GARBAGE, but has no issue with not thinking twice about what they throw away to get dumped into a landfill including the "recycling".
Quoted from jawjaw:Hate gas stations? Kind of annoying sometimes but hardly an effort to do once in a while. I think it's remarkably convenient to be able to stop literally anywhere to fuel up and be on your way in only a couple of minutes. You do feel it in the wallet with higher gas prices, though. I will give you that. Still, if everyone drove ev cars there would have to be something to replace gas taxes like taxed per mile. Govt would track your driving and of course some people would pay more, some less. Now that is something I would hate. I also wonder what would happen to most gas stations if everyone had ev. There would be no need for the vast majority of them since most people just charge at home. Changing stations would have to be in parking locations and destinations, not on a random street corner.
Okay? Maybe my time is more valuable than yours? Maybe I liked having a full tank every morning and never had to worry about running out of anything?
Now to your point about gas taxes, that's a serious issue that isn't remotely close to being resolved. EVs must contribute to this funding, they use the infrastructure as well and due to their weight cause more wear and tear on top of that. Any attempt to correct this is squashed for one silly reason or another. Like the mileage tax, oh no the government will know where I've been... DO YOU CARRY A CELL PHONE? They already know... A flat fee, that's not fair because some drive more or less than others and so people say it "hurts" EV sales. I'm not saying I have the answer because I don't, but something has to give here on this one.
In a perfect world there would be a L2 EV charger at every parking space in every parking lot (yeah I know not going to happen mainly due to meth head copper thieves who would have a field day with this). But perhaps a section of each parking lot then it even further eliminates the need to charge at home or whatever. It also extends range in that if you live 50 miles from Walmart you could be charging while you shop perhaps making up that entire energy use for the drive there to use on the drive home making range even less of a question. Just thinking out loud on that one.
Jeff
I drive a '99 Tahoe. It gets 11 MPG. I never bought in to the EV hype. However, I started thinking... I can get one and charge it at work for free everyday. No more $75 a week in gas, that's $4,000 a year.
I would keep the gasser though. It gets very snowy here in the winter and it owes me nothing as I bought it for $4,000 9 years ago 
Quoted from Neal_W:Solar works with direct and indirect light
solar panel efficiency at absolute factory specs is only 20 percent and that is in full sun so if your panel is 37.5 v at 8.8 amps and your panel is directly looking at the sun that is what you will get.....bad angle or cloudy day you are lucky to get 10 to 15 percent of that, maybe like .8 to 1 amp so if your trying to charge 200 ah of batteries ...lets just say that aint gona happen
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:I love everything about EV's - but don't yet own one and don't pretend I would be saving the environment.
If the US would start building some modern Nuclear plants we can increase our clean energy production.
I like wind and solar, but don't think it's going to get us where we need to be.
That said .... would love to have a Rivian in my garage
Ask the folks in Texas about wind power. Major failure last year in winter storms.
Quoted from pinballizfun:in that 15-20 minutes I can refi...
Quoted from pinballizfun:That gettin....
Just FYI you can quote/reapond to multiple posts in the same post.
Quoted from woody76:Ask the folks in Texas about wind power. Major failure last year in winter storms.
That's because Texas never winterized their wind turbines, they did it to themselves. It's real easy to blame clean energy and deflect blame from themselves when their whole energy grid is a colossal mess and textbook of how not to run things. Wind turbines work perfectly fine in cold weather, see places like Scandinavia, Scotland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, heck even Iowa.
Funny discussion. Stopping at a gas station is not the issue EV owners make it out to be and it's also very nice everyday to wake up to an EV with a "full tank" and not have to think twice. Just about everybody in this discussion is right on some level with their arguments. I don't have a side at all. I love EVs and want to own one but I do not at the moment and can see why others are resisting change. I understand both sides of the debate and appreciate both point of views.
Quoted from jeffro01:Now to your point about gas taxes, that's a serious issue that isn't remotely close to being resolved.
Here's an idea: Tire Tax
Affects anything that rolls on the road. From big rigs to golf carts. Everyone would pay for their share of wear and tear of the communal road space.
Quoted from FlippyD:Here's an idea: Tire Tax
Affects anything that rolls on the road. From big rigs to golf carts. Everyone would pay for their share of wear and tear of the communal road space.
They already do a "wheel tax" in some cities near me. Gets added on to your yearly registration fees. That is in addition to the tax your paying at the pump though.
Quoted from Reality_Studio:That's because Texas never winterized their wind turbine
I wonder if Texas even owns its windmills ?
Back in the Obama administration they were giving away government money (big grants) to install green energy. Here in PA a Spanish company at the time Gamesa installed several 200 foot windmills on our mountain ridges close to Altoona. So the fact is a company from outside the US got the incentives. They then sold the mills to a company in Australia who bills the local electric company for the power. The local electric company didn't really want a whole lot to do with it other then buying the power, why, because they had no experience in maintaining windmills and it wasn't cost effective for them train people and maintain them. My point is lately everyone seems to be living thier lives by sound bites and opinions repeated by the media and I am asking everyone to get in there and do the research and find the real story from multiple sources .....most of the time you find the real story isn't the story that has been touted by the mainstream
Quoted from jeffro01:Okay? Maybe my time is more valuable than yours? Maybe I liked having a full tank every morning and never had to worry about running out of anything?
Now to your point about gas taxes, that's a serious issue that isn't remotely close to being resolved. EVs must contribute to this funding, they use the infrastructure as well and due to their weight cause more wear and tear on top of that. Any attempt to correct this is squashed for one silly reason or another. Like the mileage tax, oh no the government will know where I've been... DO YOU CARRY A CELL PHONE? They already know... A flat fee, that's not fair because some drive more or less than others and so people say it "hurts" EV sales. I'm not saying I have the answer because I don't, but something has to give here on this one.
In a perfect world there would be a L2 EV charger at every parking space in every parking lot (yeah I know not going to happen mainly due to meth head copper thieves who would have a field day with this). But perhaps a section of each parking lot then it even further eliminates the need to charge at home or whatever. It also extends range in that if you live 50 miles from Walmart you could be charging while you shop perhaps making up that entire energy use for the drive there to use on the drive home making range even less of a question. Just thinking out loud on that one.
Jeff
Maybe I am special but I can spare 2 minutes of my life every week or two. Spending $20000+ more on a vehicle to save a few minutes now and then not worth it to me. But that's me. If all things equal, yes it would be better to not have to pull over at gas stations. There is a cost to everything.
BTW - I really hate the argument that if there is already a little of something then it's okay to have a lot more of it. I accept some level of taxation and invasion but that does not mean I am open to all levels of taxation and invasion. It bugs me that everyone just says ev are the future but admit it's a bumpy road. Like you said, you ideally would want chargers in every parking spot. Who is going to build, maintain, and update all those when tech changes? Answer is we all pay with taxes and increase costs. Then you have issues with tax and you know that's just an open door for all kinds of unpleasant changes. Somehow this is better than what we have now? You can buy a reliable car for $25000 or less that can easily do 200000 miles with minimum maintenance. It's easy to fuel anywhere in only a few minutes and can go anywhere no problem. You can find used cars at all price points giving even those on modest income a chance to own a car.
Quoted from jawjaw:Hate gas stations? Kind of annoying sometimes but hardly an effort to do once in a while. I think it's remarkably convenient to be able to stop literally anywhere to fuel up and be on your way in only a couple of minutes. You do feel it in the wallet with higher gas prices, though. I will give you that. Still, if everyone drove ev cars there would have to be something to replace gas taxes like taxed per mile. Govt would track your driving and of course some people would pay more, some less. Now that is something I would hate. I also wonder what would happen to most gas stations if everyone had ev. There would be no need for the vast majority of them since most people just charge at home. Changing stations would have to be in parking locations and destinations, not on a random street corner.
Why must people believe a new tax is needed? Do you like paying taxes? We pay more than in taxes….cut out unnecessary spending and there is plenty of money for road maintenance.
Quoted from Pickle:Why must people believe a new tax is needed? Do you like paying taxes? We pay more than in taxes….cut out unnecessary spending and there is plenty of money for road maintenance.
Because roads get paid for from gas taxes. If there is less gas, and therefore less taxes coming in, the taxes need to made up somewhere else. It's the state governments, not the federal governments, paying for the roads. So more EVs mean that money needs to come from somewhere.
Quoted from Pickle:….cut out unnecessary spending and there is plenty of money for road maintenance.
LOL - good luck with that
I don't hate EV's but I'm not a fan of the EV's save money argument. Spending $50k - $100k+ on an electric vehicle doesn't really seem like a way to save money.
Quoted from Reality_Studio:Yeah, this was the most annoying aspect of owning a gas car. Very common for me was being late for a video shoot, loading the car, firing it up and seeing I need gas. Then I'd have to haul ass to a gas station, hope there's no wait, fill up and head to the shoot. Your mileage may vary, but for me that was a very regular and extremely annoying occurrence. Now the only time I stop at a gas station is to buy a Kit Kat.
Sorry you don't plan your life very well.....driving ICE. Do you remember to charge your Tesla ???
If I know I am going to need gas the next day then I stop for 3 minutes on my way home. (on my current car, 7 minutes on my previous Siverado)
OK change of plans overnight and I have a long trip, the next morning I take the indirect route to I-96 stop at a Speedway, 1 minute lost, add 3 minutes for gas and continue on my journey up to 440 miles.
What If:
Your wife comes home grocery shopping, unloads everything including the Ice Cream before it melts. Then forgets to plug it in for the overnight charge. OMG your at 20% maybe even less... Now you have to find the nearest super charger Level 3 hope that it is available then wait 30 minutes*.
*the supercharger Level 3 can only do 1 car at a time for the maximum charge rate. 2 cars the your at 1 hour.
Yes I know that nobody forgets to plug in at night more than once. Enjoy your Kit Kat.
BTW the only gas waiting lines I see on my drives are at Costco or Sams Club where fuel is 10-20/gallon cheaper.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:I don't hate EV's but I'm not a fan of the EV's save money argument. Spending $50k - $100k+ on an electric vehicle doesn't really seem like a way to save money.
Have you looked at the cost of a new ICE lately? EVs aren't even more expensive depending on what specific comparison you want to make. They're also cheaper to maintain and in almost all instances, cheaper than dino fuel.
Quoted from jawjaw:You can buy a reliable car for $25000 or less that can easily do 200000 miles with minimum maintenance. It's easy to fuel anywhere in only a few minutes and can go anywhere no problem. You can find used cars at all price points giving even those on modest income a chance to own a car.
No you can't. Have you looked at car prices lately? And then easily do 200000 miles with minimum maintenance? What do you define as minimum maintenance as you still need to do oil changes and those aren't cheap even if you do them yourself? Not to mention the spewing of combustion gasses into the atmosphere which I get clearly doesn't matter to you but it does to a lot of people.
I continue to maintain the people who seem to be against EVs are the same ones who haven't driven one yet... This is sort of one of those things that if you don't know you don't know.
Jeff
Quoted from bob_e:Sorry you don't plan your life very well.....driving ICE. Do you remember to charge your Tesla ???
If I know I am going to need gas the next day then I stop for 3 minutes on my way home. (on my current car, 7 minutes on my previous Siverado)
OK change of plans overnight and I have a long trip, the next morning I take the indirect route to I-96 stop at a Speedway, 1 minute lost, add 3 minutes for gas and continue on my journey up to 440 miles.
What If:
Your wife comes home grocery shopping, unloads everything including the Ice Cream before it melts. Then forgets to plug it in for the overnight charge. OMG your at 20% maybe even less... Now you have to find the nearest super charger Level 3 hope that it is available then wait 30 minutes*.
*the supercharger Level 3 can only do 1 car at a time for the maximum charge rate. 2 cars the your at 1 hour.
Yes I know that nobody forgets to plug in at night more than once. Enjoy your Kit Kat.
BTW the only gas waiting lines I see on my drives are at Costco or Sams Club where fuel is 10-20/gallon cheaper.
Never happened to me in 6+ years... It's just not a thing that happens. It becomes part of your routine. Hell you can even set a reminder on your phone if you're that worried about it. If you have Tesla and setup scheduled charging you'd get a push notification on your phone that it wasn't plugged in when it went to start.
I love your ever creative use cases that never happen but are precisely the reason why EVs don't work... 
Jeff
Quoted from jeffro01:Have you looked at the cost of a new ICE lately? EVs aren't even more expensive depending on what specific comparison you want to make. They're also cheaper to maintain and in almost all instances, cheaper than dino fuel.
No you can't. Have you looked at car prices lately? And then easily do 200000 miles with minimum maintenance? What do you define as minimum maintenance as you still need to do oil changes and those aren't cheap even if you do them yourself? Not to mention the spewing of combustion gasses into the atmosphere which I get clearly doesn't matter to you but it does to a lot of people.
I continue to maintain the people who seem to be against EVs are the same ones who haven't driven one yet... This is sort of one of those things that if you don't know you don't know.
Jeff
Oil changes only needed every 6 months or once a year depending on miles. That's not expensive lol. Not sure where you get your math but if it works for you great.
Quoted from TheLaw:Makes sense. Michigan has super high gas usage & prices; that's why the roads are so nice!
Lol yeah.
I remember what lawmakers did here to make sure EV and hybrid owners pay their share for the roads, if you own an EV or hybrid in Michigan you now get hit with significantly higher registration fees. "Congrats on buying a Tesla, here's a $500 annual registration fee". Also reminds me of how power companies complain about profits being down because people are saving money with energy efficient appliances...rates just get increased as a result.
Quoted from jawjaw:Oil changes only needed every 6 months or once a year depending on miles. That's not expensive lol. Not sure where you get your math but if it works for you great.
I'm pretty sure, checks math, that free is cheaper than any oil change you can come up with. That's my point, there are EVs that exist today priced equivalent to their ICE counterpart.
Jeff
I’m driving my Y on a 800 mile road trip through icy cold weather. I have to say, it’s been a champ. The hotel we stayed at is a couple blocks from a free charger. I went out to move it to the charger over night… new free charger in the parking lot of the hotel. Sweet! Free “gas”.
I know it’s not for everyone, but I’m loving it. And autopilot makes freeway driving much less stressful (yes I’m still alert and being cautious).
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Lol yeah.
I remember what lawmakers did here to make sure EV and hybrid owners pay their share for the roads, if you own an EV or hybrid in Michigan you now get hit with significantly higher registration fees. "Congrats on buying a Tesla, here's a $500 annual registration fee". Also reminds me of how power companies complain about profits being down because people are saving money with energy efficient appliances...rates just get increased as a result.
Unfortunately, it's more than your fair share. That's what's ridiculous. It's at least $140 on top of registration fees on the MSRP of said electric vehicle. Federal and State gas taxes about to 18.56% in Michigan. At $3.35/ gallon, it would take 225 gallons of to spend $140 in taxes. For an ICE car that averages 30 MPG, that's 6,750 miles of driving. And then you also have to actually pay to "fuel" your car with electric power. Electricity is taxed too. If you want people to drive these things, they shouldn't be disincentivized to do so. I understand that gas taxes are used to pay for roads. However, if you have to charge ev owners an arbitrary amount to supposedly accommodate for that, then your road funding system needs to be updated. The sweet spot in Michigan is a car like the Prius or the Ioniq, which get upwards of 55-60 MPG in mixed use, but avoids the ev penalty altogether and of course uses relatively little gas.
I can see my garage transitioning into a duel stable of both an ICE and an EV in the next five years. I'm just waiting for an EV that can last 15+ years on the road before I commit. My 15yr old Highlander and my 19yr old F150 have aged like fine wine, but when one of them finally bites the dust, an EV or hybrid will take it's place.
Quoted from jeffro01:Never happened to me in 6+ years... It's just not a thing that happens. It becomes part of your routine. Hell you can even set a reminder on your phone if you're that worried about it. If you have Tesla and setup scheduled charging you'd get a push notification on your phone that it wasn't plugged in when it went to start.
I love your ever creative use cases that never happen but are precisely the reason why EVs don't work...
Jeff
Well Telsa has self driving cars ,,,, then why don't they make self charging cars?? 
Quoted from seenev:[quoted image]
Even if we say for the sake of argument that it's true, you are still left with two choices.
1) Have all vehicle pollutants exist amongst the population so me, you and people you care for get to inhale them every single day and deal with the various documented health consequences of doing so.
2) Shift the pollutants away from where people are, then over time convert the remaining polluting parts of the process to clean methods.
It's that simple. Why anyone would prefer that their spouse, family members, etc inhale gas engine fumes on a daily basis rather than not inhale them is completely beyond me.
Quoted from paynemic:I’m driving my Y on a 800 mile road trip through icy cold weather. I have to say, it’s been a champ. The hotel we stayed at is a couple blocks from a free charger. I went out to move it to the charger over night… new free charger in the parking lot of the hotel. Sweet! Free “gas”.
I know it’s not for everyone, but I’m loving it. And autopilot makes freeway driving much less stressful (yes I’m still alert and being cautious).
So just for fairness I’m posting that the headwind has been murder and I’m going to spend an extra 15 minutes on the supercharger on the homeward leg. I actually do hate that. But I’m watching Netflix on them screen, which is exactly what I’d be doing if I had gotten home earlier…
Quoted from Reality_Studio:Even if we say for the sake of argument that it's true, you are still left with two choices.
1) Have all vehicle pollutants exist amongst the population so me, you and people you care for get to inhale them every single day and deal with the various documented health consequences of doing so.
2) Shift the pollutants away from where people are, then over time convert the remaining polluting parts of the process to clean methods.
It's that simple. Why anyone would prefer that their spouse, family members, etc inhale gas engine fumes on a daily basis rather than not inhale them is completely beyond me.
I'm not against electric cars. If they were more affordable I'd have one. It's just that the entire idea that you're saving earth with them is ridiculous. California decided to put an end date on sales of combustion engine cars (during the height of the pandemic, that's what they were working on) because the narrative is that electric cars are good, gas cars are bad. Meanwhile, California is also forcing all new homes to have solar because the power grid can't handle the load.
I have a nice little hybrid. I feel like I have the best of both worlds, especially after moving out of California. Gas prices are a lot lower here in Texas.
Quoted from jeffro01:Have you looked at the cost of a new ICE lately? EVs aren't even more expensive depending on what specific comparison you want to make. They're also cheaper to maintain and in almost all instances, cheaper than dino fuel. Jeff
Yes I have. Last April I bought a GMC Terrain SLE with AWD for $30,250 out the door. A new Tesla model 3 with AWD is 46,690. So my car is $16,440 less than a tesla 3. Can you do the math? add 6% sales tax = $17,426.40 Now you take that money NOT spent on a Tesla 3 invest it in a good mutual fund with a 8% annual return you now have $1394.11 ($17,426.4*.08=$1,394.11) 
Follow me so far ??? OK now Gas is $3.35 a gallon where I live 1394.11/3.35 is 416.15 gallons of gas that money can buy. or 12,068 miles I can drive for "free"just by investing the money NOT spent on an EV. Right now working part time I will about 10,000 miles Soo with 2000 mile/29mpg*$3.35/gallon leaves me with $231 in my pock subtract $60 for two oil changes at 5K miles leaves me with $171 to buy Kit Kats while my car is at the gas pump.
Do you charge for free at work or at home? Home, OK I am estimating 4 cents per mile or $400 for electricity. More if you drive more then 10K miles per year. But many leases base at 10K mile annually. So tell me how many miles you drive and the cost per mile.
The cost of your current (pun intended) EV.
OK so my cost to drive my ICE is $571 less than your EV and I still have $17,426.40 invested.
Note that the model 3 is the cheapest Tesla AWD I found for comparison. Also I don't think a pinball machine will fit in it. I did see a picture of a S model hauling one one in the cybertruck forum.
***********************************************************************************************************************
So all of you EV lovers PLEASE let me know of any AWD EV that is about the same size of a GMC Terrain (assembled in Mexico) and how much does it cost. Range and recharge time will not be considered.
***********************************************************************************************************************
I was told you can recharge any EV in 15 seconds or less. About 9 seconds to plug it in and start the charging and later 6 seconds to unplug it. Leaving the EV owner to get a good nights sleep.
Quoted from seenev:I'm not against electric cars. If they were more affordable I'd have one. It's just that the entire idea that you're saving earth with them is ridiculous. California decided to put an end date on sales of combustion engine cars (during the height of the pandemic, that's what they were working on) because the narrative is that electric cars are good, gas cars are bad.
The narrative wasn't so much "electric cars are good, gas cars are bad" but instead the numerous health problems that gas cars inflict on the populace and the huge healthcare costs that come along with it. Current pollution status quo is simply not tenable. But ultimately it wouldn't have mattered if California did that as the rest of the world is doing it anyways, and some places with even shorter deadlines than California. Given that the vehicle market is worldwide car makers have no choice but to go clean if they want to sell cars in China, Europe, etc, which they basically must do to survive.
Quoted from bob_e:Yes I have. Last April I bought a GMC Terrain SLE with AWD for $30,250 out the door. A new Tesla model 3 with AWD is 46,690. So my car is $16,440 less than a tesla 3. Can you do the math? add 6% sales tax = $17,426.40 Now you take that money NOT spent on a Tesla 3 invest it in a good mutual fund with a 8% annual return you now have $1394.11 ($17,426.4*.08=$1,394.11) Follow me so far ??? OK now Gas is $3.35 a gallon where I live 1394.11/3.35 is 416.15 gallons of gas that money can buy. or 12,068 miles I can drive for "free"just by investing the money NOT spent on an EV. Right now working part time I will about 10,000 miles Soo with 2000 mile/29mpg*$3.35/gallon leaves me with $231 in my pock subtract $60 for two oil changes at 5K miles leaves me with $171 to buy Kit Kats while my car is at the gas pump.
Do you charge for free at work or at home? Home, OK I am estimating 4 cents per mile or $400 for electricity. More if you drive more then 10K miles per year. But many leases base at 10K mile annually. So tell me how many miles you drive and the cost per mile.
The cost of your current (pun intended) EV.
OK so my cost to drive my ICE is $571 less than your EV and I still have $17,426.40 invested.
Note that the model 3 is the cheapest Tesla AWD I found for comparison. Also I don't think a pinball machine will fit in it. I did see a picture of a S model hauling one one in the cybertruck forum.
***********************************************************************************************************************
So all of you EV lovers PLEASE let me know of any AWD EV that is about the same size of a GMC Terrain (assembled in Mexico) and how much does it cost. Range and recharge time will not be considered.
***********************************************************************************************************************
I was told you can recharge any EV in 15 seconds or less. About 9 seconds to plug it in and start the charging and later 6 seconds to unplug it. Leaving the EV owner to get a good nights sleep.
Bob_e you’re an absolute legend. Nobody can put solid math and wacky hypotheticals and bundle it all up like with unnecessary SHOUTY CAPS and asterisk bars like you.
I still love my Tesla. But your most compelling point is an inability to haul a pin. I keep my old highlander around for that. It runs mostly on unicorn farts, but when I’m out of those, it will burn gas.
Quoted from jeffro01:They're also cheaper to maintain and in almost all instances, cheaper than dino fuel.
Jeff
I just priced out tires at Belletire.com Tesla model 3 $1317 only one choice. Terrain same brand continental highest priced $926 almost $400 more.
Insurance from State farm The model 3 AWD was $117 more than my Terrain AWD for 6 months
once again the EV would have cost me more. and I am a bad person for not spending more money to be green
Quoted from bob_e:I just priced out tires at Belletire.com Tesla model 3 $1317 only one choice.....
once again the EV would have cost me more. and I am a bad person for not spending more money to be green
How does it stack up against your Corvette instead if the Terrain?
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
